Non-Invasive Do-It-Yourself Vagus Nerve Stimulation

[thesaint]

This is kinda interesting, think I'll give it a go

 

[dboy]

Thanks @thesaint, it is indeed interesting. There are simpler ways to make the tone though, eg. via this page or similar ones:

http://www.audionotch.com/app/tune/

Just set the frequency on the slider and play / stop as needed. No need to download Reaper and mess around with synths (although that might be fun!)

I was a little unsure about the method of vagus nerve stimulation - will have to look into this a bit further and have a try when the house is quiet.

Cheers!

 

[labrat10687]

thesaint, Very interesting! Many thanks for posting this.

 

[Janet Dalton]

am I alone or is this audionotch expensive?

 

[linearb]

am I alone or is this audionotch expensive?

depends on what you consider "expensive"; if you get a $40 trial subscription then you can have 2 months to make and download as many notched tracks as you want. $40 does not seem that expensive to me, as far as software-as-a-web-service goes. Yes you can do the same thing with Audacity for free, but it's significantly more effort...

 

[dboy]

am I alone or is this audionotch expensive?

You do not have to buy it though if you want to just use the tone generator for this VNS experiment.

 

[Rube]

This is also an iPad / iPhone app which can help you identify your t frequency and also notch your music, it's called
tinnitus pro : music therapy. $10 from the App Store

 

[NiNyu]

Snake oil. What sense does it make to match your T frequence if you can't hear it with your injured ear anyway? Moreover, what if you have lost several frequencies?

 

[Christian78]

Snake oil. What sense does it make to match your T frequence if you can't hear it with your injured ear anyway? Moreover, what if you have lost several frequencies?

other ear function too! you dont have to hear it on demaged ear

 

[NiNyu]

@Christian78 fair so I hear it on my healthy ear, which spikes my T due to H. Bottom line, I can just shower and have the very same effect.

 

[Christian78]

@Christian78 fair so I hear it on my healthy ear, which spikes my T due to H. Bottom line, I can just shower and have the very same effect.

maybe you will have to use keppra/keppla for H, and aparatus for tinnitus.... dear, i really dont know why do we live with so many deaseases and why god is doing this to us

 

[Silvio Sabo]

This is bogus. The guy on the video has clearly misunderstood the VNS studies. You are not supposed to listen to the sound with the frequency corresponding to the sound of your tinnitus. You are supposed to listen to sounds with frequencies NOT matching your tinnitus at the same time as your Vagus Nerve is being stimulated.

I posted an explanation of this in the comments of the video.

 

[SteveO]

Correct silvio. Fyi from vagus nerve patent details:

The pairing as it relates to tinnitus is notably unique. We are not pairing just random sounds. We are not doing some kind of auditory training or improving perception of one sound over another. The key is that we are deliberately pairing the non-tinnitus frequency. The reason is that pairing the non-tinnitus frequency results in a decrease in the area of the brain responding to the tinnitus frequency and decrease the synchronous firing of neurons. By reducing the response to the tinnitus frequency and decreasing synchrony, we are able to reduce tinnitus symptoms. No one has before shown that the symptoms of tinnitus can be improved by excluding specific sounds and including specific sounds. A drug cannot work selectively in this way, nor can cortical stimulation. VNS has the specificity to do this.

 

[SteveO]

US20150051659 Methods, systems, and devices for treating tinnitus with vns pairing
02/19/2015 US20150051658 Methods, systems, and devices for treating tinnitus with vns pairing
02/19/2015 US20150051657 Methods, systems, and devices for treating tinnitus with vns pairing
02/19/2015 US20150051656 Methods, systems, and devices for treating tinnitus with vns pairing
02/19/2015 US20150051655 Methods, systems, and devices for treating tinnitus with vns pairing

Recent Feburary patents with some good details. Inc the ranges needed. Then we just need voltage into nerves or magic mushrooms / lsd. Something to trigger brain wiring.

 

[Champ]

Snake oil. What sense does it make to match your T frequence if you can't hear it with your injured ear anyway? Moreover, what if you have lost several frequencies?

I believe the guy in the video is wrong, from my understanding VNS requires you play frequencies above and below the tinnitus frequency (in an attempt to activate healthy hair cells to strengthen neural connections at that frequency cap). Someone in the comments said their tinnitus felt worse after doing his method because they were using the same frequency... hopefully they get better but yeah apparently you're not supposed to do that.

 

[NiNyu]

No one has before shown that the symptoms of tinnitus can be improved by excluding specific sounds and including specific sounds.

A drug cannot work selectively in this way, nor can cortical stimulation. VNS has the specificity to do this.

Actually certain masking sounds did show exactly this.

How can they tell that a specific drug cannot work selectively? Proof? Honestly, that all sounds like marketing.

 

[SleeplessSoul]

I am so confused about masking with the same tone as your t.

I have a low bass tone t, therefore I listen to brown noise which has a lot of bass (for sleep).

Is this wrong and am I making myself worse?????

 

[ChrisJ]

I am so confused about masking with the same tone as your t.

I have a low bass tone t, therefore I listen to brown noise which has a lot of bass (for sleep).

Is this wrong and am I making myself worse?????

In short: not unless it makes your Tinnitus louder after 24hours or more. Do not try therapy without consulting a doctor first and if in doubt turn the volume down so that it is just below your T volume. Disclaimer I am just a fellow suffer and not an expert so the following is just based on personal research...

It sounds like you are using Masking which is just a different technique to Notched Sound Therapy and Suppression. From what I have read (and remember I am not an expert) you are only making yourself worse if your Tinnitus is louder 24 hours or more after the sound therapy; the baseline of the noise has to have increased. Sometimes these treatments can leave you with an after image where you can still hear the sound after it is turned off. Most of the literature I have read strongly recommends you do not treat yourself without professional supervision.

Here is a quote from informative paper: Patterned sound therapy for the treatment of tinnitus

It is important to draw distinctions between masking and suppression, as the two are often used interchangeably in the literature. Masking can be divided into two types, total and partial, both of which use a broad-band noise as the external stimulus. With total masking, the external sound is played loudly enough that the tinnitus can no longer be heard. However, some patients are unable to mask their tinnitus totally or can do so only at intolerable sound levels. In such cases, partial masking is employed.

...

With partial masking, the external stimulus is played at nearly equal levels to the perceived tinnitus or at a tolerable level softer than the tinnitus. Some approaches, such as Tinnitus Retraining Therapy, combine partial masking with intensive counseling. Both total and partial masking are psychophysical methods focused on diverting the patient's attention away from their tinnitus, and they are distinct from what we have found in the present suppression study.

In suppression, a sound is presented that is softer than the level of the tinnitus, which may completely eliminate the perception of the tinnitus. The overall level of the sound environment is less than the tinnitus alone. We have also noted that some subjects experience partial suppression in which the lower-level external stimuli only partially reduce the tinnitus percept.


What the treatment in this thread seems to be doing is using Notched Sound which only plays frequencies adjacent your tinnitus frequency in an attempt to stimulate the neighbouring neurons in the auditory cortext, am I right?

It simultaneously stimulates the vegas nerve, which as far as I understand is designed to promote the plasticity of the brain. Again correct me if I am wrong. Though to me this sounds a lot like alchemy and really scientists are just banging rocks together based on hunches but hey if it's low cost and low risk why not try it as long as you check in with a doctor to make sure you're not in danger of making it worse.

Personally I use Hear and Tinnitus app for iPhone

​

That notches out the sound of my Tinnitus which I calibrate when I set it up. I play the sound so that it is less than the sound of my tinnitus so that I don't get the after image. I also use a TENS machine (since I already have one, it's free) and I place it on the back of my neck around the upper cervical nerve C2 which I learned from this paper: Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS) of upper cervical nerve (C2) for the treatment of somatic tinnitus

Placement of the TENS electrodes​

Note though this is for somatic Tinnitus. I have tried putting the pads under the ear and on the side of the neck though important warning is do not place the electrodes near the throat or the front of the neck and turn it off immediately if you feel any pain.

I find that it is good at distracting me from my T and it does not make it worse, it also makes my hyperacusis a bit better too.

I also note from the literature that success using suppression rather than masking is achieved only after many months or a year of daily treatment. I am choosing to do it as I find it quite relaxing and since I had a TENS machine anyway it only cost me a small amount for the app. I will post an update if I have any notable results.

Thanks for your time.

 

[ChrisJ]

@SleeplessSoul

TL;DR

Masking is setting the sound equal to or more than the perceived tinnitus volume and is designed to cover it up immediately. It is only dangerous if makes your tinnitus worse 24 hours later or more.
Suppression is setting the sound to less than the tinnitus volume and is aimed at training the brain to direct attention away from tinnitus longer term.
Notched Sound Therapy is an adjustment in the frequencies of the sound, by removing, or 'notching out' the tinnitus frequencies from the white noise or music it aims to stimulate the adjacent nerves in the cochlea and/or the neurons in the brain's auditory cortex to increase plasticity so you tune out the tinnitus naturally over time. This is also a longer term treatment.

Suppression, Notched Sound and Vagus Nerve Stimulation are often used in combination and come along with counselling and objective measuring by a audiologist. Subjective measurements by patients are often not accurate at tracking the progress of treatment.

Source: http://journals.lww.com/thehearingj...ned_sound_therapy_for_the_treatment_of.6.aspx

 

[DebInAustralia]

Chrisj...

The link to the article re tinnitus and c2..

States that applying stimulation to c2 activates dcn. Isnt that a concern given that area is already hyperactive?

 

[ChrisJ]

Chrisj...

The link to the article re tinnitus and c2..

States that applying stimulation to c2 activates dcn. Isnt that a concern given that area is already hyperactive?

Quoting directly from the paper (emphasis mine):
Electrical stimulation activates or inhibits cells in the ventral and dorsal division of the cochlear nucleus (Shore 2005; Shore et al. 2003; Young et al. 1995) and can suppress or enhance responses to sound (Shore 2005; Shore et al. 2003).

It was shown that electrical stimulation in the cat DCN yields strong inhibition and weak excitation of DCN princi- pal cells (Davis et al. 1996; Young et al. 1995).

Remember this is for Somatic Tinnitus. What I was trying to do is see if I could modulate the sound with it. The first time I tried it I thought I heard it get quieter but I might have been imagining it. Yesterday when I did it I thought I could hear it trill (fluctuate) but then I realised I had heard it do that before after oxygen therapy.

I think TENS machines are pretty safe if you use them carefully. At the moment I am just experimenting to see if I can change the tinnitus with the TENS unit as it might give clues to causes.

 

[ChrisJ]

Chrisj...

The link to the article re tinnitus and c2..

States that applying stimulation to c2 activates dcn. Isnt that a concern given that area is already hyperactive?

Hey Deb, I tried it again last night before bed for an hour with notched sound suppression and it did modulate the tinnitus. It actually made it louder for a while up to a central head ringing but it went down after. I had to take sleeping tablet to sleep but in the morning when I woke up it was down to a mild hiss.

I don't mind temporary spikes like that so I am going to try more. Let me know if it's helpful for me to post updates.

 

[DebInAustralia]

hi Chris,

I am very interested in your diy approach for somatic tinnitus.

Would you mind being more specific with regards to the exact placement of the electrode pads for your tens and the settings that you use?

I have read about hyperbaric o2 but never seriously invested time into looking into it for my t. I figured after nearly 2 years it was too late, but perhaps not?

please keep us updated if that's ok with you.

I think what you are doing is fantastic. so pleased to read that you have woken to very quiet t and less H. wonderful news

 

[ChrisJ]

hi Chris,

I am very interested in your diy approach for somatic tinnitus.

Would you mind being more specific with regards to the exact placement of the electrode pads for your tens and the settings that you use?

I have read about hyperbaric o2 but never seriously invested time into looking into it for my t. I figured after nearly 2 years it was too late, but perhaps not?

please keep us updated if that's ok with you.

I think what you are doing is fantastic. so pleased to read that you have woken to very quiet t and less H. wonderful news

Re O2 treatment if you can afford it and you get signed off by a doctor I would deff recommend you try it, if for no other reason than to see what it does to your T. A few people on here have reported that the T goes down during treatment. It did with me. In the early sessions it came back, sometimes with a vengeance but it was only this week I have started seen longer term results.

Re placement of pads as above:

You want to criss cross the pads so that the negative electrodes are diagonal to one another and the same for the positives like so...

The black is positive, the white is negative. If your T is on the left then put the positive one on that side.​

The further away the electrodes are from one another the stronger the resistance I think. Some newer machines make you use 4 pads at the same time, it's fine just place the other two on the upper back or shoulders. I find the massage setting works best, it's where it actually feels like there's a mini digger drilling in to you, it's actually quite nice and it makes my ears pop a bit and opens up the eustachian tube.

 

[Jomo]

I was curious based on what i have read about the mice that were cured using vagus stimulation if you could use somthing like the general fuzz acrn website and then while listening just stimulate the vagus nerve by humming or splashing cold water on your face. Humming is obviously the better way to go. Any thoughts?

 

[Nate Croteau]

Guys please check the video out!

This musician has created a viable treatment based off research done which cured Tinnitus in rats.
I just tried it for the first time today, and experienced immidiate results.
But it takes time and patience.

NO DRUGS
NO SNAKE OILS
NO BS

JUST SOUND
BREATHING
VAGUS NERVE STIMULATION
AND PATIENTS

I hope and pray this helps!
God Bless!

 

[Bill Bauer]

I just tried it for the first time today, and experienced immidiate results.
But it takes time and patience.

How are you feeling now?

http://www.utdallas.edu/~sxv140030/Published/93.pdf
Safety and Efficacy of Vagus Nerve Stimulation
Paired With Tones for the Treatment of Tinnitus:
A Case Series
"Results:
The therapy was well tolerated, and no patient withdrew from the study due to complications or side-effects. Four of the
ten patients exhibited clinically meaningful improvements in their tinnitus, both for the affective component, as quantified by the
Tinnitus Handicap Inventory, and for the sound percept, as quantified by the minimum masking level. These improvements were stable for more than two months after the end of therapy.
Of the ten patients, five were on medications that included muscarinic antagonists, norepinephrine agonists, and
γ-amino butyric acid agonists, thereby possibly interfering with acetylcholine and norepinephrine release induced by vagus nerve stimulation (VNS) and essential for inducing plasticity. These patients had no improvement in contrast
to medication-free patients.
Conclusion:
VNS paired with tones excluding the tinnitus-matched frequency is safe and feasible. It seems to exert a beneficial effect
in nonmedication-taking patients, both with regard to the perceived sound and the distress. Further studies are therefore mandated."

 

[BreachOfEuphoria]

Thank you @thesaint for creating this topic !
And thank you @Silvio sabo for clearing that up.