Not Just Hollywood

[GeorgiaRose1812]

This is what I and everyone else was thinking!! @Hazel @GeorgiaRose1812 @Tinker Bell all probs think it's harassment if a man smiles at you. OH MY GOD if a man says hello with a wrong tone! OR THAT YOU'RE PRETTY! CALL THE POLICE, WOMAN!

I've lived in SEVERAL european countries in my life, also other places and harassment hasn't been a problem for my female friends! I think 99 per cent of these "harassed" females lie or exaggerate about being "harassed"

THIS MOVEMENT where females are trying to overpower men is sick, it's not about EQUALITY, it's about some women wanting to control men and take the power away from men who are more level headed than women. I AM SORRY if I hurt anyones feelings but this conversation makes me hate certain women even more.. this will be my last message about this!

delete my message if you cant face the reality...

https://www.facebook.com/notjusthollywood/

read the stories on here if that's your argument. These are all true, all from real women, all anonymous so you can't argue it's for attention or to get at a guy or whatever.

No female that I know is trying to overpower any man. A smile is nice, we'll return it, a genuine compliment is nice and we'll just say thanks and return it.

We just want to stop have to feel nervous of speaking out in meetings, of walking home alone after dark, of having our bodies commented on at work. And I don't mean 'you look pretty' (although I don't know when the last time you heard a 60 year old woman say 'you look hot' to a male bartender was), I mean 'you're a sexy little piece aren't you' at the good end, 'I'd love to bend you over the bar' in the middle and then leaning over the bar, taking a picture and saying 'that's going in the wank bank' at the truly gross (but not uncommon) end of the spectrum.

However my attempt at explanation ends here as your saying that men are more level headed than women and your use of caps lock to make a point prove an aversion to fact and, ironically, a lack of level headedness.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I have never seen/heard a woman being the subject of a catcall in my entire life (over 40 years) (not counting some silly commercials about construction workers). And no, I am not blind and deaf, and I do pay attention to what is happening around me, especially when I am walking down the street. I also spend time outside of Canada (when I travel). I spent many years at a university. Also, when I travel, I often enjoy walking at the local university grounds. Universities hire the best landscapers. I've been to University of Chicago, Seattle University, and many others.

Once I was visiting Craters of the Moon National Monument in Idaho, and an older gay guy tried to chat me up on the trails there. It was a bizarre experience. I was polite, so he made several attempts before he got the message that I was not interested. I don't feel like I was the victim of sexual harassment, although his attention was certainly unwanted, and I could do without that particular memory.

One more comment on this: just because you have not personally seen someone catcalled or harassed does not mean sexual harassment does not happen.

This reminded me of a recent tweet from Stephen Colbert, "Global warming isn't real because I was cold today! Also great news: World hunger is over because I just ate."

 

[GeorgiaRose1812]

I agree, women can be lying whores and their word seems to be the truth. No evidence required...

Their word seems to be the truth? That'll be why only 5.7% of cases are convicted then, and why a guy (Brock Turner) who was literally witnessed raping an unconscious woman was only sentenced to 6 months.

 

[Bill Bauer]

One more comment on this: just because you have not personally seen someone catcalled or harassed does not mean sexual harassment does not happen.

It might mean it is not an epidemic. A woman having an experience like that in public places every X days would be consistent with the evidence provided by my "lying eyes" only for large values of X.

I am surprised Stephen Colbert doesn't use this logic when it gets hotter than usual outside.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...-this-is-why-they-rebranded-it-climate-change

Of course the absolutely hopeless global warming skeptics are making great fun of all this, taunting the faithful, mocking the past predictions of snow-free winters, glaciers melting in 30 years, the fading industry of ski resorts. In equally bad form, they call up all the hot summer days of years past when even the TV meteorologists or "weather specialists" as they delight to call themselves, marked every humid breeze, every tilt upwards of a degree, the start of forest fires, the demands on air conditioning as "yet another sign," another proof of the incontestable fact of our ever-heating globe. Not so much talk during those torrid days of the great cleavage between Climate and Weather. For some reason on hot days it is not thought necessary to make the distinction. Scientific scruple, I guess.

 

[Markku]

Goodness. I wish our members used the Report feature more to alert moderators of inappropriate content.

Thanks for letting me know; Amiel is now out for good.

Our rules are lax enough to allow for pretty open discussion, but the line is drawn here.

I'm sorry @TheDanishGirl you had to experience it.

 

[Tinker Bell]

Their word seems to be the truth? That'll be why only 5.7% of cases are convicted then, and why a guy (Brock Turner) who was literally witnessed raping an unconscious woman was only sentenced to 6 months.

Ugh, Brock Turner. If ever there was someone who deserved to get tinnitus . . .

 

[GeorgiaRose1812]

Ugh, Brock Turner. If ever there was someone who deserved to get tinnitus . . .

hahaha oh my god yes

 

[Tinker Bell]

Goodness. I wish our members used the Report feature more to alert moderators of inappropriate content.

Thanks for letting me know; Amiel is now out for good.

Our rules are lax enough to allow for pretty open discussion, but the line is drawn here.

I'm sorry @TheDanishGirl you had to experience it.

Wow, thank you for replying. The poster made comments on multiple threads. I always seemed to read them well after the fact, and usually someone scolded them. I hate to push out someone suffering but seeing it in the chat format, it was just really uncalled for to say to another member.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

Goodness. I wish our members used the Report feature more to alert moderators of inappropriate content.

Thanks for letting me know; Amiel is now out for good.

Our rules are lax enough to allow for pretty open discussion, but the line is drawn here.

I'm sorry @TheDanishGirl you had to experience it.

Thanks! I don't let it get to me at all I just kind of pity the guy, for not having proper social intelligence.

Glad he is gone though. We don't need this kind of behaviour on a site where people are vunerable.

 

[Zug]

@Bill Bauer , I see it in another way. I was a University professor for a while, and you do hear stories. Imagine you're a twenty something just starting your adult life, you have an appointment with a professor, a much older, powerful guy. He receives you in his office with a porn site open in his computer. Or he makes comments about your clothes all the time, or he just goes on to propose to make things "easier" for you. Those are all stories I heard from female colleagues. Most cases don't get reported because, well, first, it is very difficult to face the world, second, some of the abusers know what they are doing and know how to mess with people's heads. Just look at those Harvey Weinstein stories, it goes like "He was a producer and said he needed me to do this or that for the movie." The fact that people like Uma Thurman and Selma Hayek are exposing themselves to the world is good in that maybe it will encourage more victims to face their aggressors.

I see were you are coming from, as I said I was a University Professor and I've also seen people overreact. I think eventually we'll find a balance.

Best,
Zug

 

[AZeurotuner]

@Bill Bauer , I see it in another way. I was a University professor for a while, and you do hear stories. Imagine you're a twenty something just starting your adult life, you have an appointment with a professor, a much older, powerful guy. He receives you in his office with a porn site open in his computer. Or he makes comments about your clothes all the time, or he just goes on to propose to make things "easier" for you. Those are all stories I heard from female colleagues. Most cases don't get reported because, well, first, it is very difficult to face the world, second, some of the abusers know what they are doing and know how to mess with people's heads. Just look at those Harvey Weinstein stories, it goes like "He was a producer and said he needed me to do this or that for the movie." The fact that people like Uma Thurman and Selma Hayek are exposing themselves to the world is good in that maybe it will encourage more victims to face their aggressors.

I see were you are coming from, as I said I was a University Professor and I've also seen people overreact. I think eventually we'll find a balance.

Best,
Zug

I agree... This shit is absolutely disgusting and I hope that every single one of these people are exposed for the power tripping perverts that they are. We (us men) often don't want to believe that it happens because we typically don't witness the occurrences, but that's because these predators often make their move behind closed doors. They're not gonna whip it out or make other sexual advances in front of a bunch of witnesses, these are typically intelligent individuals and they know better, they're gonna wait until it's just them and their victim. Do some women lie about harassment and assault in the hopes of a big lawsuit and/or revenge? Yes. But I believe the "#metoo" movement is different, most of these women are successful (some being extremely successful) and independent, and have nothing to gain by making it up. I stand by these women, this behavior needs to stop.

 

[Red]

What a sad thread! I can understand the other men's contributions (though I don't agree with them, some rational conversation at least seems to be possible there), but @Amiel is totally out of line! I wish I could report his comment as inappropriate.

I already did when this thread was first made. Silence from mods. Actually not the only time I have reported something on TT but again...nothing. Admin team, huh? What admin team?

 

[Red]

Goodness. I wish our members used the Report feature more to alert moderators of inappropriate content.

Thanks for letting me know; Amiel is now out for good.

Our rules are lax enough to allow for pretty open discussion, but the line is drawn here.

I'm sorry @TheDanishGirl you had to experience it.

I did report this. I have used the button before and nothing. Is your report button broken?

 

[Bill Bauer]

He receives you in his office with a porn site open in his computer.

I just don't see someone who isn't mentally ill doing this. Professor jobs are really good jobs that require a huge investment of time and effort (as in decades). A sane person is not going to throw it all away to get a brief thrill.

 

[AZeurotuner]

I just don't see someone who isn't mentally ill doing this. Professor jobs are really good jobs that require a huge investment of time and effort (as in decades). A sane person is not going to throw it all away to get a brief thrill.

Depends on your definition of mentality ill I guess, people throw away good careers all the time.

 

[Michael Leigh]

people throw away good careers all the time.

Indeed they do and for this reason something is usually wrong somewhere..

 

[AZeurotuner]

Indeed they do and for this reason something is usually wrong somewhere..

Without a doubt these people are not "normal", but it really comes down to your opinion on what defines mental illness... Are these men sex addicts? If so, is addiction a mental illness? If not is their some other kind of deficiency or susceptibility to certain behaviors that could be revealed through neurological testing? Are they just assholes? Is it their position of power that sends them over the edge, or would their behavior remain the same regardless of their authority? One thing for certain is that these men need to continue to be held accountable for their actions.

 

[linearb]

huh, so someone makes a #metoo thread and it immediately gets derailed with autistic-sounding misogynistic nonsense?

sounds like the internet all right. Condolances

 

[Michael Leigh]

continue to be held accountable for their actions.

I agree those men need to be accountable for their actions. Unfortunately, sexual harassment is nothing new as we all know and what we see and hear in the media I believe is just the tip of the iceberg not to mention all the other kinds of abuse which I won't even go there.

 

[AZeurotuner]

I agree those men need to be accountable for their actions. Unfortunately, sexual harassment is nothing new as we all know and what we see and hear in the media I believe is just the tip of the iceberg not to mention all the other kinds of abuse which I won't even go there.

Without a doubt... Many injustices that have been buried deep beneath the surface for quite some time are finally coming to light, it's unfortunate that it took this long.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Many injustices that have been buried deep beneath the surface for quite some time

What are you talking about?

 

[Vincent R]

Goodness. I wish our members used the Report feature more to alert moderators of inappropriate content.

Thanks for letting me know; Amiel is now out for good.

Our rules are lax enough to allow for pretty open discussion, but the line is drawn here.

I'm sorry @TheDanishGirl you had to experience it.

As metoo# makes it to TT, another misogynist bites the dust

 

[linearb]

Goodness. I wish our members used the Report feature more to alert moderators of inappropriate content.

Thanks for letting me know; Amiel is now out for good.

sorry for sending another report after you'd already posted this!

 

[Bill Bauer]

As metoo# makes it to TT, another misogynist bites the dust

First they came for the misogynists. I didn't say anything, because I wasn't a misogynist. ...

 

[Tinker Bell]

First they came for the misogynists. I didn't say anything, because I wasn't a misogynist. ...

Does your version also include a line arguing for protection of racists?

The original was meant to speak out against persecution, discrimination and prejudice, yet you feel we should protect individuals who do just that? Should they continue to sexually harass, too?

 

[linearb]

First they came for the misogynists. I didn't say anything, because I wasn't a misogynist. ...

The idea that all speech should be on equal footing is idiotic. The first amendment merely says that the government can't sanction people in specific ways for expressing most kinds of communcation.

Well run forums for normal people should censor misogynists, and racists, and basically anyone calling for the violent oppression or subjugation of another group. Otherwise your forum just becomes a hotbed of hate speech, and normal people either lose interest or are intimidated out of communicating.

 

[AZeurotuner]

The idea that all speech should be on equal footing is idiotic. The first amendment merely says that the government can't sanction people in specific ways for expressing most kinds of communcation.

Well run forums for normal people should censor misogynists, and racists, and basically anyone calling for the violent oppression or subjugation of another group. Otherwise your forum just becomes a hotbed of hate speech, and normal people either lose interest or are intimidated out of communicating.

That's real talk... Well said my friend. Too many people associate freedom of speech with being able to say whatever you want, wherever you want, with zero ramifications. When in reality, it simply limits government interface and prosecution, a private entity can do whatever the hell it wants to regarding bigotry and hate speech, and it most definitely should not be tolerated on communities such as ours.

 

[Zug]

I just don't see someone who isn't mentally ill doing this. Professor jobs are really good jobs that require a huge investment of time and effort (as in decades). A sane person is not going to throw it all away to get a brief thrill.

@Bill Bauer , I don't think they see it as risking anything. Keep in mind that most of those guys have Tenure (It's really hard to get them fired), are much older and can act as gatekeepers. One word from a well known professor can make or break a career. A lot of women keep it to themselves.

That's why I think it's a good thing that women are talking about it.

Anyway, just wanted to give you an example on a field where I have first hand experience.
Best,
Zug

 

[Red]

The Me Too movement is best not thought as a witchhunt. The victims are not some sort of arbiters or gatekeepers, judging what we are allowed to enjoy. In the scope of humanity, the concept of equality is in its infancy. So of course there is going to be growing pains and controversy. We don't have it all figured out yet.

In this regard, we're just trying to figure out how to stand, how to walk…
It's about trying to get a feel for things, awareness.

With this movement, here are the main takeaways, in my opinion:


1. The de-stigmatization of talking about rape and sexual assault. It can be a bit of a taboo to speak of these things. With the movement, so many people are speaking out and when you have influential women and men speaking on it as well, if there is less of a stigma.

2. Recognition of the severity of sexual assault. Speaking out like this, it allows for more people to understand that this is a real problem today. More people can understand that the victims aren't getting justice. It is a serious crime that isn't treated very seriously and with a better demonstration of numbers, we can better visualize this problem.

3. Flawed heroes. Me Too should not mean chasing everyone accused out of town. Instead, it should be a cautionary tale about why we should not idolize celebrities too much. These are people, same as you and me. They make mistakes and commit crimes just like the rest of us. Just because someone is charismatic does not mean that this person is also just. Personally, I don't tend to idolize celebrities but there was one that I particularly liked that was accused. It doesn't mean I will stop enjoying his work but it does make one consider that everyone has their private life.


I do sympathize with men who may be worried about it. If I was born a man I know I would. It would be easy to be unsure with oneself on whether or not you've done something that could be considered wrong. The problem with these sorts of crimes is they are very personal and difficult to prove in court. Convictions are rare. Working on prevention methods, becoming more open about sex as a society, and educating people about consent is my hope for the future. We should work towards talking about this stuff more openly.

I hope that Me Too will be remembered for shining a light on the topic of consent as opposed to being remembered as, "These people are telling me I can't enjoy this actor anymore."