Our Prime Minister Just Got Tinnitus + Hearing Loss

[Samir]

I guess you're being ironic as HBOT is not really what we could call "experimental".

If this is so effective, why is it not being used routinely in hospitals?

If it really is that effective... that professor was quoted saying 85% success rate... then it really should be made available to everyone, not just the privileged few. As this type of incidents are responsible for tinnitus in many of those that suffer from noise induced hearing loss.

 

[Bobby B]

The worst for T is to hit hard only one ear with sudden hearing loss - this creates an imbalance which loops the T in the brain a lot more than having the same degree of loss in both ears .

Now I wonder how the princess Astrid is doing ? At her age this may also have affected her hearing / T even though she did not seem surprised in the photo.

In any case we need more famous people pushing the cause for T - besides famous musicians, a few Prime minsters and royal family members would have an impact

 

[vermillion]

I guess you're being ironic as HBOT is not really what we could call "experimental".

If this is so effective, why is it not being used routinely in hospitals?

Not the first argument on treatments and scientific data etc. etc. One thing is sure, we know nothing about this affliction. There is no universal solution. Everything is experimental. It's a nasty game of trial and error.

 

[Samir]

The worst for T is to hit hard only one ear with sudden hearing loss - this creates an imbalance which loops the T in the brain a lot more than having the same degree of loss in both ears.

Yes, this I really think is the reason why I got it. The left ear was affected more than the right. I believe this relates to something called binaural fusion.

Binaural fusion or binaural integration is a cognitive process that involves the "fusion" of different auditory information presented binaurally, or to each ear.

The binaural squelch effect is a result of nuclei of the brainstem processing timing, amplitude, and spectral differences between the two ears. Sounds are integrated and then separated into auditory objects. For this effect to take place, neural integration from both sides is required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_fusion

 

[Samir]

One thing is sure, we know nothing about this affliction.

"To know is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge."
~ Confucius

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
~ Socrates

"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know."
~ Einstein



It is a constant search for knowledge, through reason, and more importantly through experimentation. But if this treatment is as effective as they claim it is... then I see no reason why it would not be offered to everyone? Unless of course there are some doubts about it.

 

[Foncky]

If this is so effective, why is it not being used routinely in hospitals?

If it really is that effective... that professor was quoted saying 85% success rate... then it really should be made available to everyone, not just the privileged few. As this type of incidents are responsible for tinnitus in many of those that suffer from noise induced hearing loss.

I think it's routinely used for divers who get a barotrauma for instance.

All the people on the picture probably got hearing damage by the way. Some of them will notice (hearing loss, tinnitus, hyperacusis), some of them not or later (hidden damage).

I think it's Liberman or someone like him who said that "temporary hearing loss" was not that temporary : your ears are damaged even if your audiogram seems fine after a while.

 

[Applejuice]

I cut the blast in fragments. First you ser the normal one, in the second pic you can see the shockwave going to his ears and bounces off his head upwards and in the 3rd pic you see the gun firing, again with the ignition going towards his ear.

I wish him best of luck because he will need it really badly.

 

[Samir]

I think it's routinely used for divers who get a barotrauma for instance.

But it has been tested mainly in AAT (acute acoustic trauma).

From 1985:

We conducted a study on the effect of hyperbaric oxygen therapy on 122 soldiers following acute acoustic trauma.

The results of our studies show that hyperbaric oxygen therapy shortens the course of healing with respect to high-pitch perception dysacusis.

Our study has also shown that no method can compare with hyperbaric therapy in eliminating tinnitus following acoustic trauma.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00453696

From 2008:

Hyperbaric oxygen therapy seems to enhance recovery from acute acoustic trauma.

The average recovery of hearing and cessation of tinnitus was significantly better after hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) than after normobaric oxygen therapy (NBOT). HBOT can be valuable adjuvant therapy for patients with acute acoustic trauma (AAT).

AAT was one of the early indications for the use of HBOT. The rationale of administering oxygen to patients with AAT is based on experimental studies showing that noise exposure results in cochlear hypoxia, which could be compensated by HBOT.

The average recovery of hearing both at high and speech frequencies was significantly better and tinnitus persisted less commonly after the HBOT than after the NBOT. Normal hearing at the end of the follow-up period was regained in 42 ears in the HBOT group and in 24 ears in the NBOT group (p<0.01).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18607951

Can be?... could be?... seems to?... they don't really know, do they?

Normal hearing?... normal as in audiogram normal?

I think it's Liberman or someone like him who said that "temporary hearing loss" was not that temporary : your ears are damaged even if your audiogram seems fine after a while.

I am not convinced it was Liberman who coined the term.

2011 Sep 21,
Schaette R, McAlpine D.:

Tinnitus with a normal audiogram: physiological evidence for hidden hearing loss and computational model.

Ever since Pliny the Elder coined the term tinnitus, the perception of sound in the absence of an external sound source has remained enigmatic.

This provides direct physiological evidence of "hidden hearing loss" that manifests as reduced neural output from the cochlea, and consequent renormalization of neuronal response magnitude within the brainstem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21940438

2013 Apr 27,
Xiong H, Chen L, Yang H, Li X, Qiu Z, Huang X, Zheng Y.:

Hidden hearing loss in tinnitus patients with normal audiograms: implications for the origin of tinnitus

Tinnitus patients with normal audiograms have hidden hearing loss at the level of primary auditory nerve and the generation of tinnitus is likely attributed to a homeostatic response of neurons in brainstem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23833989

2014 Mar 26,
Liberman MC, Liberman LD, Maison SF.:

Efferent feedback slows cochlear aging.

The resultant loss of efferent feedback accelerated the age-related amplitude reduction in cochlear neural responses, as seen in auditory brainstem responses, and increased the loss of synapses between hair cells and the terminals of cochlear nerve fibers, as seen in confocal analysis of the organ of Corti immunostained for presynaptic and postsynaptic markers. This type of neuropathy, also seen after moderate noise exposure, has been termed "hidden hearing loss", because it does not affect thresholds, but can be seen in the suprathreshold amplitudes of cochlear neural responses, and likely causes problems with hearing in a noisy environment, a classic symptom of age-related hearing loss in humans.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24672005

2014 Sep 9,
Plack CJ, Barker D, Prendergast G.:

Perceptual consequences of "hidden" hearing loss.

Dramatic results from recent animal experiments show that noise exposure can cause a selective loss of high-threshold auditory nerve fibers without affecting absolute sensitivity permanently.

This cochlear neuropathy has been described as hidden hearing loss, as it is not thought to be detectable using standard measures of audiometric threshold.

There is also evidence that the tinnitus experienced by listeners with clinically normal hearing is associated with cochlear neuropathy, as measured using Wave I of the auditory brainstem response.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25204468

2015 Feb 4,
Bharadwaj HM, Masud S, Mehraei G, Verhulst S, Shinn-Cunningham BG.:

Individual differences reveal correlates of hidden hearing deficits.

Clinical audiometry has long focused on determining the detection thresholds for pure tones, which depend on intact cochlear mechanics and hair cell function.

Together with previous animal and computational models, our results suggest that hidden hearing deficits, likely originating at the level of the cochlear nerve, are part of "normal hearing."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25653371

2015 Aug,
Liberman MC.:

HIDDEN HEARING LOSS

(NO ABSTRACT???!)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26349143

2015 Dec,
Kujawa SG, Liberman MC:

Synaptopathy in the noise-exposed and aging cochlea: Primary neural degeneration in acquired sensorineural hearing loss.

The classic view of sensorineural hearing loss (SNHL) is that the "primary" targets are hair cells, and that cochlear-nerve loss is "secondary" to hair cell degeneration.

This primary neural degeneration has remained hidden for three reasons: 1) the spiral ganglion cells, the cochlear neural elements commonly assessed in studies of SNHL, survive for years despite loss of synaptic connection with hair cells, 2) the synaptic terminals of cochlear nerve fibers are unmyelinated and difficult to see in the light microscope, and 3) the degeneration is selective for cochlear-nerve fibers with high thresholds.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25769437

You can see that Liberman first appears in 2015. I think it was a group of neuroscientists who coined the term "hidden hearing loss".

The PubMed entry with the missing abstract refers to this article in Scientific American:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hidden-hearing-loss-from-everyday-noise/

You must buy the article to read it. But here is a preview:

Football fans of the Seattle Seahawks and the Kansas City Chiefs routinely compete at home games to set the Guinness World Record for the noisiest stadium. On October 1, 2014, the Chiefs hit the latest peak: 142.2 decibels (dB). That level is like the painful, blistering roar of a jet engine at 100 feet—a typical example that hearing experts give for a noise that is more than loud enough to cause hearing damage. After the game, the fans were ecstatic. They reveled in the experience, noting the ringing in their ears or the feeling that their eardrums were about to explode. What was happening inside their ears was far from wonderful, however.

And here is a nice infographic:

So anyway! I don't think Liberman coined the term "hidden hearing loss" originally. But he may have revealed some of the science behind this phenomenon. After all, he is the director of one of the biggest labs on hearing research in the world.

 

[Samir]

@Applejuice I think this is what you wanted:



Now close up:

 

[Applejuice]

@Samir
I wanted to show the shockwave like in your and mine second picture. But seeing the rest in pictures really shows that he was struck hard and the guy on the other side also shows some response.

It's just frustrating to see so many people standing so close together next to a gun without any hearing protection. And they don't seem like fools to me but they just don't know how dangerous it is. I think neither of us did when we got it.

 

[Samir]

and the guy on the other side also shows some response.

Yes, he put his right hand finger in the ear after the shot was fired... in an attempt to stop the ringing in his brain, I guess.

It's just frustrating to see so many people standing so close together next to a gun without any hearing protection.

Yeah, like children playing with a gun.

And they don't seem like fools to me but they just don't know how dangerous it is. I think neither of us did when we got it.

Probably not, but I would never even thought about using a gun. Let alone using it without any protection, or without getting instructions by a professional.

In this case, their safety advisers should have stepped in.

 

[Bobby B]

His predecessor, the former prime minster of Belgium Elio Di Rupo also got T and hearing loss in one ear due to a blast - airbags. He had to wear hearing aids in one ear.

Poor guy - the airbag did blow due to a defect not even a car accident..

http://www.dhnet.be/actu/belgique/e...-bien-le-neerlandais-51b7979be4b0de6db98332d3

 

[JurgenG]

There are lots of articles about T and what he can do about it in the newspapers now. A lot of them mention the oxygen therapy, and even mention the healing of haircells.
This is something I still wonder, do haircells heal after all if you are fast enough?

Wish I went to get oxygen therapy instead of a party.. but my accoustic was way less ofcourse.

 

[Samir]

There are lots of articles about T and what he can do about it in the newspapers now.

Like news articles, or scientific papers? He will probably not find the solution in the newspaper. But it's very good that they are talking about it now.

This is something I still wonder, do haircells heal after all if you are fast enough?

Maybe... maybe not...

It could be that you seem normal, with normal audiogram. But after about 1 year you may start having disorders like tinnitus and hyperacusis.

Wish I went to get oxygen therapy instead of a party.

Not going to the party would probably have been a good idea. But I am doubtful about oxygen therapy. But of course, people try everything when they are desperate.

Where would you receive oxygen therapy within 48 hours? Where is the PM being treated by the way?

 

[JurgenG]

Like news articles, or scientific papers? He will probably not find the solution in the newspaper. But it's very good that they are talking about it now.

Yeah, it's raising awareness. At least for a week I guess..

Maybe... maybe not...
It could be that you seem normal, with normal audiogram. But after about 1 year you may start having disorders like tinnitus and hyperacusis.

A gamble as with anyone.

Not going to the party would probably have been a good idea. But I am doubtful about oxygen therapy.

Yeah, at least it was a week after my mild shock, and I did use earplugs for a great deal of the time, but still.
How stupid could one be? I kept underestimating the danger.

Where would you receive oxygen therapy within 48 hours? Where is the PM being treated by the way?

Good question, I guess it's possible if you go to the ER, I've heard it before. But for me it wouldn't have been an option because it didn't affect me right away after the mild trauma.

 

[NimQ]

A very important piece of news, @Rubenslash - thank you for sharing it with us.

I think this just goes to show how the risks and causes of acoustic trauma aren't known well enough.:/ It's ridiculous really, that in 2017 people think it's a good idea to A) fire a gun without hearing protection and B) do so in the middle of a crowd. I bet there were dozens of people witnessing the event, yet no one stepped in to intervene "wait a minute, this is extremely dangerous".

How can there be so much evidence and research on acoustic traumas, hearing loss and tinnitus, but still this knowledge doesn't seem to reach the vast majority of people. It's like everyone would just insist on staring at the sun and laser pointers, even when it is proven to damage sight. It is as if someone was pouring gasoline over people while standing near to bonfire and everyone would be indifferent about it. A bit of an overstatement, yes, but we are talking about a severe physical injury nevertheless. I find it very sad that something completely preventable as this can now potentially ruin (or at least complicate) yet another life.

As many others here, I wish that this will lead to further discussion and eventually treatment options. The PM should acknowledge his priviledge, when it comes to getting the best therapies possible within 48 hours. And hopefully he will understand that in his position, he can raise awareness and push towards a world where damaging noise is taken seriously and that people should get treatment as soon as he did. Then again, this isn't just about him. Media and government have a good chance to bring this issue forward now. A case like this will get people's interest and might actually make them think and remember it as an example of how acoustic traumas are no laughing matter.

 

[Philemon]

Does it says he specifically got Tinnitus? I couldn't find this information in the news. The scene is an example of how clueless the world is about hearing loss, but I couldn't find anything about Tinnitus in the news.

Also, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Best,
Zug

There it is : They talk about him having tinnitus ("acouphènes") following this event :

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/eu...-pistolet-au-depart-d-une-course_2214080.html

all the best.

 

[Reinier]

He refers to recovery of hearing, not tinnitus.

That is probably it. The ENT checks his audiogram and tells him "no damage done".
Than one month later hell starts.
Sorry. Bad day )-;

 

[Bill Bauer]

Where is the evidence?

According to studies in the first post in
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-over-70-recover-3-studies.21441/
over 70% recover...

 

[Zug]

There it is : They talk about him having tinnitus ("acouphènes") following this event :

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/eu...-pistolet-au-depart-d-une-course_2214080.html

all the best.

This is so sad. (Also, just learned the French word for Tinnitus, thank you)

Best,
Zug

 

[light rain]

A very important piece of news, @Rubenslash - thank you for sharing it with us.

I think this just goes to show how the risks and causes of acoustic trauma aren't known well enough.:/ It's ridiculous really, that in 2017 people think it's a good idea to A) fire a gun without hearing protection and B) do so in the middle of a crowd. I bet there were dozens of people witnessing the event, yet no one stepped in to intervene "wait a minute, this is extremely dangerous".

How can there be so much evidence and research on acoustic traumas, hearing loss and tinnitus, but still this knowledge doesn't seem to reach the vast majority of people. It's like everyone would just insist on staring at the sun and laser pointers, even when it is proven to damage sight. It is as if someone was pouring gasoline over people while standing near to bonfire and everyone would be indifferent about it. A bit of an overstatement, yes, but we are talking about a severe physical injury nevertheless. I find it very sad that something completely preventable as this can now potentially ruin (or at least complicate) yet another life.

As many others here, I wish that this will lead to further discussion and eventually treatment options. The PM should acknowledge his priviledge, when it comes to getting the best therapies possible within 48 hours. And hopefully he will understand that in his position, he can raise awareness and push towards a world where damaging noise is taken seriously and that people should get treatment as soon as he did. Then again, this isn't just about him. Media and government have a good chance to bring this issue forward now. A case like this will get people's interest and might actually make them think and remember it as an example of how acoustic traumas are no laughing matter.

I think the reason is an economic one. Just think of all the lawsuits and demands for better hearing protection by workers and military. Let alone the music industry with concert venues and even the sales of electronics. Which of course often have a microscopic warning but it seems damage can occur to people even at safer levels. And since there is no cure - it seems that public ignorance is profitable for now. Wonder how quickly things would change if a million dollar cure were found. Probably be seeing T warnings and awareness everywhere. Of course I am extremely oversimplifying but still the lack of awareness is absurd especially in this day and age.

And the pictures of the PM make it all so clear. He is ear level - that alone would seem to have been a red flag.

 

[JurgenG]

That is probably it. The ENT checks his audiogram and tells him "no damage done".
Than one month later hell starts.
Sorry. Bad day )-;

What do you mean? That Tinnitus usually sets on later? Even a month after trauma?

 

[GregCA]

If this is so effective, why is it not being used routinely in hospitals?

If it really is that effective... that professor was quoted saying 85% success rate... then it really should be made available to everyone, not just the privileged few. As this type of incidents are responsible for tinnitus in many of those that suffer from noise induced hearing loss.

I don't know about effectiveness, but it seems it carries a non negligible amount of risk.

 

[TuneOut]

Most of the time I'm not sure if anything can be done. Sure steroids HBOT etc. are worth a shot, but there really isn't any concrete evidence that anything helps.

Actually, there is extensive research showing that acoustic trauma is mediated primarily via free radicals and that antioxidants can very significantly attenuate the damage.

 

[Reinier]

What do you mean? That Tinnitus usually sets on later? Even a month after trauma?

That is what happened after my acoustic incident.
My ENT told me this was not unusual.
Also I heard this from other people too.
Although apparently this can differ.

 

[GregCA]

That is what happened after my acoustic incident.
My ENT told me this was not unusual.
Also I heard this from other people too.
Although apparently this can differ.

I lived for 6 weeks with "just" hearing loss before T set in.

 

[Alue]

Yes, this I really think is the reason why I got it. The left ear was affected more than the right. I believe this relates to something called binaural fusion.

Interesting. In my case the acoustic trauma was on my left side, and my left side was affected more. I had ringing in both ears but mostly the left, then over the course of a few months the tinnitus moved to my head where it has stayed.

 

[Alue]

I think it's routinely used for divers who get a barotrauma for instance.

All the people on the picture probably got hearing damage by the way. Some of them will notice (hearing loss, tinnitus, hyperacusis), some of them not or later (hidden damage).

I think it's Liberman or someone like him who said that "temporary hearing loss" was not that temporary : your ears are damaged even if your audiogram seems fine after a while.

Barotrauma of the ear is a common side effect of HBOT. It is used for decompression sickness or the bends which is a different kind of barotrauma.

 

[Sebastians]

Kinda like how my T (and subsequent H) started. Never trust a moron handling a gun..

 

[Samir]

How stupid could one be? I kept underestimating the danger.

Please don't beat yourself up. It happened... and you are not alone in this. Try to look forward. I am sure you have learned the lesson by now.

Good question, I guess it's possible if you go to the ER, I've heard it before.

I don't think we even have HBOT in Sweden at any hospital. Maybe steroid injections... and that's a maybe! I will have to do some checking.

But for me it wouldn't have been an option because it didn't affect me right away after the mild trauma.

Same as with me! Had I known, I might have gone to the ER right after the incident. Maybe cried some and hope that they give me the steroid injection. I had no idea about the danger, that it would come to haunt me later on. I did not even know about my options, that steroid injections are a thing! I still have to verify that this is done at ENT clinics in Sweden. HBOT? I don't think so! We hardly have steroid injections!