Our Prime Minister Just Got Tinnitus + Hearing Loss

[Bill Bauer]

Where would you receive oxygen therapy within 48 hours?

Private HBOT businesses in Canada will do same day/evening/weekend treatments for you. It costs $150-300 per session (depending on the type of an oxygen tank being used at the facility)

 

[Samir]

Than one month later hell starts.

One to twelve months I would say. It took me about 12 months.

Let alone the music industry with concert venues and even the sales of electronics. Which of course often have a microscopic warning but it seems damage can occur to people even at safer levels.

Music and electronics! That's my lot! Long time music listener, and then a loud PEEEEEEEP in my earphones due to technical problem with the computer sound card.

What do you mean? That Tinnitus usually sets on later? Even a month after trauma?

It came on like 12 months post trauma for me.

it carries a non negligible amount of risk.

Thanks!

The most prevalent symptoms were otalgia (157/165), followed by ear fullness (13/165), hearing loss (12/165) and tinnitus (3/165). One patient experienced vertigo and deterioration of the bone-conduction pure-tone thresholds, suggesting inner ear barotrauma. In 116 ears of the 58 symptomatic patients, abnormal otoscopic findings were recognized in 58 ears (50.0 %). Twenty-seven of the 58 ears required myringotomy or tube insertion, and HBOT was stopped in eight ears in four patients. Of the remaining 58 ears with normal otoscopic findings, 51 received no treatment. Physicians should be aware of both middle and inner ear barotrauma as potential complications of HBOT.

Also I heard this from other people too.

Myself included!

I lived for 6 weeks with "just" hearing loss before T set in.

So that's roughly a month. This can apparently vary, but I would say between 1 to 12 months. I met several people who had tinnitus onset about a year after the incident. Which is my case as well.

In my case the acoustic trauma was on my left side, and my left side was affected more. I had ringing in both ears but mostly the left, then over the course of a few months the tinnitus moved to my head where it has stayed.

Yeah, about the same pattern with me. About 12 months after the incident I got tinnitus. It was peripheral at first, mostly in the left ear. Then it moved to my head.

I had occasional fleeting, mostly in the left ear. Now it's almost exclusively in the head. Along with occasional involuntary muscle contractions in the middle ear that cause clicks, but that my doctor tried to tell me is in my head. I know it's not in the head, like a subjective click.

Who does ever get subjective clicks? These doctors have no idea what they are talking about. I was able to record my clicks with my smartphone mic. I just know it's not Eustachian tube dysfunction. I don't need to explain, I have said too much already. Clicks are either ETD, muscle or vascular disorders. But no one is researching these, they are an orphan in the whole tinnitus research community. So they don't know much about it.

 

[Samir]

Private HBOT businesses in Canada will do same day/evening/weekend treatments for you. It costs $150-300 per session

I guess you are lucky... seriously! You have the option! But it's up to you if you will request that. Before you do however, you need to know that this is an option in this type of case. You need to be informed about it before the incident happens, or your doctor needs to be.

How do ENT doctors in Canada and USA handle this type of incident? Do they recommend HBOT? Maybe only steroid injections?

 

[Bill Bauer]

I guess you are lucky... seriously! You have the option! But it's up to you if you will request that. Before you do however, you need to know that this is an option in this type of case. You need to be informed about it before the incident happens, or your doctor needs to be.

You are right. I found out about HBOT about 2 weeks after onset...

How do ENT doctors in Canada and USA handle this type of incident? Do they recommend HBOT? Maybe only steroid injections?

I was able to see an ENT less than 72 hours after the onset of my T. He told me "if it doesn't go away after a year, it is permanent." [Now I know that this is not even true.] That's all! Nobody told me about steroid injections, which would have been effective at that time.

I learned about HBOT on this site, and about prednisone on the net. I got an emergency doctor to give me a 7-day supply of prednisone. Neither the ENT, nor my family doctor agreed to prescribe the rest of the 14-day prednisone treatment. (I am not sure what would have happened, had I insisted - unfortunately I didn't insist...)

 

[Samir]

I was able to see an ENT less than 72 hours after the onset of my T.

That is very unfortunate... that you did not know about HBOT or steroid injections at the time. Especially given what you told me, that you have HBOT facilities available to you. But it's astonishing that your doctors, who studied medicine, and met patients like you before... that they did not know about HBOT or steroid injections... or maybe they kept you in the dark. Maybe they do not believe in this. Whatever the reason!

I still have my doubts about HBOT really, but I am sure that, had you known what was coming, you would have given this a try. Who knows, it might have helped you! You know!?... It's probably a better option than prednisone anyway. It's treating the condition at its root cause, instead of just elevating symptoms.

Even if I had known and insisted on this treatment, had I known about it, I am pretty sure I would not have received it. This is just not an established practice where I live, for whatever reason.

As we say in Sweden, "det är lätt att vara efterklok." It is easy to be wise after the event. Still... those that are payed to know this type of thing, they should be offering this treatment if it is so effective. As a patient, I am not supposed to know all things science and medicine. If I did I would run my own hospital for my personal needs. Not too unlike the Belgian PM who got treatment that is at the edge of science. I would not be paying the state to fund incompetence.

 

[Julien87]

I just saw the video on the Tinnitus Hub Facebook page. Damn, this is really painful to watch.
I feel bad for him and wish him a quick recovery. But hopefully that will raise awareness. People should all know that one should not stand next to such ridiculously loud noises.

A quite similar story (and by this I mean, a "celebrity" subject to loud noise accidents) happened to the goalkeeper of the Lyon football team a few months ago.

Some savages from the terraces sent big firecrackers next to him and he suffered a trauma.

Video here for the curious ones: http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2016/12/03/anthony-lopes-metz-lyon-petards-l1/

Fortunately he then fully recovered from it apparently.

 

[Rubenslash]

I just saw the video on the Tinnitus Hub Facebook page. Damn, this is really painful to watch.
I feel bad for him and wish him a quick recovery. But hopefully that will raise awareness. People should all know that one should not stand next to such ridiculously loud noises.

A quite similar story (and by this I mean, a "celebrity" subject to loud noise accidents) happened to the goalkeeper of the Lyon football team a few months ago.

Some savages from the terraces sent big firecrackers next to him and he suffered a trauma.

Video here for the curious ones: http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2016/12/03/anthony-lopes-metz-lyon-petards-l1/

Fortunately he then fully recovered from it apparently.

Seems to happen regularly in football games. In Dutch second division, a firecracker exploded next to the ball boy. The boy started to cry and was holding his ears:



To be honest, these firecrackers are the main reason I am hesitating to visit football games now, even with plugs its damn loud.

 

[Sasja]

I, too, live in Belgium. Lately I have been thinking of sending a letter in the form of a parliamentary question, this might be the perfect opportunity to make it stand out even more. I might be able to brush up some past connections within the circle of the MP's to get the question asked directly.

I am in 'Law School' so I'm supposed to know the tricks of the trade, but I am always open to feedback or to Belgian co-signers.

PS: I think a European Parliamentary question is possible too, but I don't know for sure that I can reach an MP. I do think so. So, in that case, any European co-signers are welcome.

 

[Bill Bauer]

That is very unfortunate... that you did not know about HBOT or steroid injections at the time. Especially given what you told me, that you have HBOT facilities available to you. But it's astonishing that your doctors, who studied medicine, and met patients like you before... that they did not know about HBOT or steroid injections...

HBOT hasn't been officially approved to treat tinnitus. But there was NO reason not to try steroid injections...

those that are payed to know this type of thing, they should be offering this treatment if it is so effective. As a patient, I am not supposed to know all things science and medicine.

My experience has taught me that it makes sense to read medical papers on the subject of one's disease and to go to a local university and read medical textbooks, before one visits one's doctor. The doctor knows how to treat the 20 most popular diseases - that's all. The doctor is NOT going to spend hours reading medical journals as he or she researches the best treatment for you. If you want to increase the chance of recovery (and if your disease is not one of the popular diseases), you have to invest your time and effort into it (because your doctor won't).

 

[Markku]

Someone mentioned this before, but the guy on the other side who plugged his ear after the gunshot, anyone knows if there was a report of him having any problems afterwards? If anything good can come out of this what could have been a totally avoidable incident, it's more awareness. @Sasja, feel free to PM us if you think we can be of help with your plan to raise a question.

A slow-down of the key part:

 

[Sasja]

Someone mentioned this before, but the guy on the other side who plugged his ear after the gunshot, anyone knows if there was a report of him having any problems afterwards? If anything good can come out of this what could have been a totally avoidable incident, it's more awareness. @Sasja, feel free to PM us if you think we can be of help with your plan to raise a question.

Nothing in the news about Yvan Mayeur (the mayor of the city of Brussels).

@Markku I'll definitely contact you guys. I'll draft something more concrete and dive deeper into the European matter. I'll probably get back to you after my finals.

 

[Samir]

I think it's Liberman or someone like him who said that "temporary hearing loss" was not that temporary

I think Liberman may have said something along those lines. I believe you may be referencing the late New Yorker article (High-Tech Hope For The Hard Of Hearing).

As for the term "hidden hearing loss", it was not coined by Liberman. In fact, it was coined by Dr. Roland Schaette and Prof. David McAlpine of UCL Ear Institute in that paper that I cited earlier. I just got an e-mail reply from Dr. Roland Schaette confirming this fact. According to Dr. Schaette, Dr. Liberman later adapted this term to make it easier for people to understand the concept behind it. I have full respect for Charles M Liberman. I just wanted to set the record straight.

 

[Telis]

Perhaps it would be best to just leave the man alone? Just saying! Think about it! Yes, he is an important person (not that the rest of us are not), and yes they want to do their best in trying to help him. But they may be trying a bit too much. They might as well be aggravating his problem. Don't you think?

Yes, I totally agree. I was on every drug treatment imaginable after my ear injury, steroid nasal spray,oral steroids, decongestants, antibiotic ear drops, ADs, Ativan, zoplicone, aspirin, T3, allergy meds etc etc etc

Every doctor I saw would hand me something different to try, all had different ideas, my head was spinning because I didn't know who to believe. I kept seeking treatment as my situation was getting worse by the day, little did I know (at the time) that it was the doctor visits that were making me worse, not the original incident (barotrauma). I went from a slight hiss in my ears only heard in the quiet (when I went to bed) to brain screaming tinnitus noises straight from hell along with hyperacusis, hearing loss, and a massive drug dependency problem.

I really wish I hadnt put my trust into to a doctor, I had zero clue, all my fault for not knowing, I blame myself completely, I could have done my own research, I didn't.

 

[Alue]

Yeah, about the same pattern with me. About 12 months after the incident I got tinnitus. It was peripheral at first, mostly in the left ear. Then it moved to my head.

I had occasional fleeting, mostly in the left ear. Now it's almost exclusively in the head. Along with occasional involuntary muscle contractions in the middle ear that cause clicks, but that my doctor tried to tell me is in my head. I know it's not in the head, like a subjective click.

Who does ever get subjective clicks? These doctors have no idea what they are talking about. I was able to record my clicks with my smartphone mic. I just know it's not Eustachian tube dysfunction. I don't need to explain, I have said too much already. Clicks are either ETD, muscle or vascular disorders. But no one is researching these, they are an orphan in the whole tinnitus research community. So they don't know much about it.

For me the tinnitus came on 3 days after the acoustic trauma, but I knew something was wrong with my hearing immediately after. I guess it depends on the extent of the damage. Maybe the synapses get damaged and die off months later. Other times like with an explosion it's almost instant.

 

[Alue]

I think Liberman may have said something along those lines. I believe you may be referencing the late New Yorker article (High-Tech Hope For The Hard Of Hearing).

As for the term "hidden hearing loss", it was not coined by Liberman. In fact, it was coined by Dr. Roland Schaette and Prof. David McAlpine of UCL Ear Institute in that paper that I cited earlier. I just got an e-mail reply from Dr. Roland Schaette confirming this fact. According to Dr. Schaette, Dr. Liberman later adapted this term to make it easier for people to understand the concept behind it. I have full respect for Charles M Liberman. I just wanted to set the record straight.

How come Liberman's name get quoted so much but the co-author of his most seminal research Sharon G Kujawa never gets mentioned here?

 

[Samir]

How come Liberman's name get quoted so much but the co-author of his most seminal research Sharon G Kujawa never gets mentioned here?

People don't know better. They need to be educated. Getting to the bottom of things and getting the answers takes time and effort. The same applies to tinnitus research.

I contacted Dr. Schaette in order to get the answer. Not many people would do that.

But yeah, I think Dr. Kujawa deserves credit as well. Just because Liberman is a senior researcher and director of the Eaton-Peabody Laboratory doesn't mean he runs a one man's show. I noticed that people on this forum tend to glorify Liberman (myself included). He even has his very own Wikipedia page. How many world experts on hearing can say that? This is most likely done by one of his fans in the patient community.

Let's give credit where credit is due. You will notice I credited both Dr. Roland Schaette and Prof. David McAlpine.

 

[Kaelon]

If anything positive can be gathered from this episode, I would hope that it is awareness. Fortunately, because they caught this right on the onset, I suspect that a high threshold course of prednisone will reverse the detectable hearing damage and mitigate the intrusive tinnitus. Based upon the scholarship that I have been reading here and elsewhere, it does sound like hearing damage -- even the "hidden" damage -- is permanent and irreversible.

Has anyone read more about the re-programming of the brain study conducted in the University of South Florida? This helped essentially silence the over-active neural pathways and cured Tinnitus in about ~80% of the afflicted during a trial a few years ago. Tinnitus Today carried a brief mention of it at the time, but I haven't been able to find more about it.

I would have to imagine that the Prime Minister of Belgium can gain access to such experimental treatments. I would hope that he in turn publicizes and promotes awareness of options, even for long-term chronic sufferers.

 

[Vicki14]

I really hope he survives their experimental treatments, that they don't aggravate his problem, and that he makes a full recovery! But regardless of the outcome, what I mostly hope to see come out of this is an increased awareness, and more research funding into hearing loss and tinnitus!

So very true! After my audiologist appointment for wax removal, all it did was aggravate my ear and make my t worse, despite me asking for his assurance!!!!!

What a horrible condition to live with... I sincerely hope the pm recovers! Makes me terrified just watching this clip!!! Unbelievably stupid!!!!

 

[Jake007]

Sad to say but a good way to raise awareness

 

[Samir]

I suspect that a high threshold course of prednisone will reverse the detectable hearing damage and mitigate the intrusive tinnitus.

I don't follow... what does that mean? How can Prednisone reverse hearing damage, or more precisely, "detectable hearing damage"? What does it mean to reverse "detectable hearing damage"? If anything, it should reverse "hidden hearing damage". It is this type of damage that is thought to cause elevated hearing thresholds and subsequent tinnitus. Of course, the actual damage could be more or less severe, but it is this rise in thresholds to compensate for the loss that causes tinnitus. That's the way I understand it anyway.

Has anyone read more about the re-programming of the brain study conducted in the University of South Florida? This helped essentially silence the over-active neural pathways and cured Tinnitus in about ~80% of the afflicted during a trial a few years ago. Tinnitus Today carried a brief mention of it at the time, but I haven't been able to find more about it.

Autifony? AUT00063?

Pill that could stop both hearing loss and tinnitus is now being tested

http://intra.cbcs.usf.edu/mediatracker/common/cfm/unsecured/csd/ViewNews.cfm?NewsID=1253

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02345031

 

[ShaunR]

Hey,
Reminds me when I went to see Circus of Horrors about 10 years ago. As everyone was coming In to take there seats I remember seeing a guy just about to sit down when one of the Actors popped up and fired a starting pistol right next to his ear... I'm talking almost touching his head! I remember watching the guy all the way through the show cupping his ear, plugging it etc. I always did wonder what happened to him :s

Thankfully for me I'd put ear plugs in before I even entered the theatre.

The lack of understanding about the damage caused by loud noise really does astound me!

Shaun.

 

[MikeL1972]

Hopefully they can help the Prime Minster.

Remember guys, life can change in 30 seconds. Your wealth is really your health!

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Kinda like how my T (and subsequent H) started. Never trust a moron handling a gun..

you doing any better? has the H faded at all ??

 

[Sebastians]

you doing any better? has the H faded at all ??

My H luckily faded over time to the point that i 'have it under control' i.e. I can gauge the situations where i need to wear earplugs (subway, loud bars, noisy commutes etc.), but i feel comfortable not wearing (filtered) earplugs in normal restaurants, cafés, parks etc.
I would not be able to walk into a club though, my body just tells me no as soon as i hear the bass booming outside of the venue.
My T is still there and goes up and down in volume from barely perceivable to really annoying. I am quite confident it will diminish in volume slowly over the years provided i don't do anything stupid.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

My H luckily faded over time to the point that i 'have it under control' i.e. I can gauge the situations where i need to wear earplugs (subway, loud bars, noisy commutes etc.), but i feel comfortable not wearing (filtered) earplugs in normal restaurants, cafés, parks etc.
I would not be able to walk into a club though, my body just tells me no as soon as i hear the bass booming outside of the venue.
My T is still there and goes up and down in volume from barely perceivable to really annoying. I am quite confident it will diminish in volume slowly over the years provided i don't do anything stupid.

Sounds familiar.

I feel great some days. Jammed with a drummer Saturday. Totally quiet Sunday. Buzzy today.

H is mostly gone, but occasionally the recycling clanking gets me.

Good days seem to be more plentiful

 

[mikejohnno]

Maybe he'll look into Tinnitus research now eh?

 

[Samir]

H is mostly gone, but occasionally the recycling clanking gets me.

That is familiar to me. The H is mostly gone. I have read this several times – for most people the H seems to fade away. But for me, glass against glass clinging, like glass jars when recycling is horrifying. It's both the character and the amplitude of the sound that gets under my skin.

 

[noisebox]

He's very lucky to get treatment. Here in the uk I got nothing and wasnade to wait 6 months to see ent.

 

[The Red Viper]

I really wish I hadnt put my trust into to a doctor, I had zero clue, all my fault for not knowing, I blame myself completely, I could have done my own research, I didn't.

Don't beat yourself up about it, you did what you thought was right at the time, namely to trust medical professionals. The real problem is that we just aren't equipped to deal with ear issues that well. Diagnostics just isn't there yet, otherwise we'd be able to target therapies better instead of just shooting in the dark.

 

[Samir]

As for the term "hidden hearing loss", it was not coined by Liberman. In fact, it was coined by Dr. Roland Schaette and Prof. David McAlpine of UCL Ear Institute in that paper that I cited earlier. I just got an e-mail reply from Dr. Roland Schaette confirming this fact. According to Dr. Schaette, Dr. Liberman later adapted this term to make it easier for people to understand the concept behind it. I have full respect for Charles M Liberman. I just wanted to set the record straight.

I got a second e-mail from from Dr. Schaette, saying that they only did their study in humans after Liberman et. al. had done another study on cochlear synaptopathy in mice. Still, this doesn't change the fact who coined the term "hidden hearing loss". But yes, credit should be given to Liberman et. al. for their initial study on mice. I just have to source that paper. Meanwhile, here are the other two relevant papers:

Sep, 2011: Tinnitus with a Normal Audiogram: Physiological Evidence for Hidden Hearing Loss and Computational Model:
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/38/13452

Mar, 2014: Efferent feedback slows cochlear aging:
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/13/4599.long

Liberman first used the term in 2014. FWIW!