Outdoor Concert & Tinnitus

[attheedgeofscience]

Ok so lets say i properly fit an earplug that is 33 db.. Which i always do and there never sticking out and im out somewhere thats 95 db.. Will that bring it down to 67db or no?

If you...

1) wear new earplugs
2) fit them correctly as per these guidelines I have provided previously (see again below); especially step #3
3) do not move about after having inserted the earplugs

...then you will get very close to the protection offered by the manufacturer of the earplugs at the various frequencies. Yes!

But as a example - when I go to the gym - I probably have to reinsert my earplugs every 15 minutes or so in order to get the maximum protection (because they come undone). Which I of course cannot be "bothered" to do. Because I am human (believe it or not). And so the protection level goes down.

And be honest here: after you insert your earplugs, do you press and hold the earplugs in for about one minute to let them expand correctly? I am pretty sure many people overlook that step - either because they don't know about it or because "oh well, it probably doesn't matter"-mentality. And leaving out that step immediately takes away 10db of protection (round figure, of course).

And do you always use new earplugs? And when attending an AC/DC concert, do you stand absolutely still, or do move about together with the rest of the crowd?

That's why the derating calculation has been made. Folks - I didn't invent the calculation; it was invented for a reason. Because there are ideal conditions... and then there is reality. And reality is that people do end up with tinnitus after going to concerts - sometimes even with earplugs as some members on this board can attest to.

I am leaving this thread now.


Instructions on how to use earplugs correctly.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience maybe it's not spending too much time on the forum the problem but being negative in general. Letting go costs 0$.

"No comment".

 

[Grace]

I have a box of 250 ear plugs.. In new packages everytime i use them. I insert them the right way and hold them in for at least a minute to expand and when there in, there in pretty damn good and feel tight and not stickin out of my ear at all. And no i wont go to a concert, but when im sittin at a bar with music they dont come out and ofcorse i check them on and off. I litterly spent like a long time how to put them in and i finally got it down great!

 

[Tenna]

@attheedgeofscience
Well in case you read it
My empathy didnt allow me to interpret your reasons as a joke so you do by no means have to elaborate the big deal.
I read your journal from which I can tell there's a big financial aspect, besides that imagine the emotional aspects making you go to the lengths you've gone, your examination of your case in front of everyone in here which again is indeed appreciated.
"After all, missing out on a concert is not the end of the world. But developing tinnitus can be the end of world. Quite literally, sometimes."
I know you don't think it's a pretty big deal, but perhaps it is to others? I can say.
As to your question which wasn't exactly the equivalent of your first statement, it's not about going to one concert, it's about living. People all over the world go horseriding, they cheerlead, they play football etc.
All of those being incredibly dangerous occupations, yet people keep on doing them as it keeps them alive and happy. Exact same principle applies to concerts and music. Is that one concert worth an entire life with tinnitus you ask, and I reply what is the entire worth of the rest of my life, without what's keeping me happy and alive?
You cannot predict the outcome of going to a concert, but you can certainly predict the outcome of not doing what you love, or?
Different values, different reasons, different aspects. I think your intention is sincere, and it's great providing that good neutral info, while at it just be careful undermining there being a reason for one to bring up the topic of concerts in the first place. Missing out on a concert can indeed be the end of the world.
Now I'm leaving too! I'm happy op had a good experience and that we got all the good info on the subject

 

[alifalijohn]

@Tenna, @Ken219, @alifalijohn, @ampumpkin, and @Grace, all hearing protection devices are required to be tested in a laboratory to determine their noise reduction rating (NRR). @attheedgeofscience writes (quite incorrectly) that the "effective noise reduction [of a hearing protection device] in a real environment is somewhat less (approximately 50% of NRR ..." In other words, he believes earplugs provide about half the protection in a real-world environment that they do in a laboratory. For example, in his opinion, an earplug with a 32 NRR would attenuate only 16 dB when using dBC noise levels.

He is incorrect.

The noise reduction provided by a hearing protection device in a laboratory is identical to the protection it provides in any other environment.

The OSHA recommendation to use 50% reduction when estimating field attenuation in the workplace is called de-rating. This guideline has nothing to do with earplugs and everything to do with the people who wear them. When an earplug is not correctly inserted into the ear, it provides considerably less protection. Studies performed in workplaces have shown that some people know how to properly insert earplugs and some do not. These studies indicate in a number of cases the attenuation achieved in the workplace is identical to the NRR rating shown on the packaging; but they also show in a number of other cases attenuation can be much lower than that which is achieved in a laboratory.

Due to the wide variation in the amount of protection achieved by people who wear a hearing protection device in the workplace, OSHA wrote a guideline to de-rate the NRR of hearing protection devices by 50% to take into account people who do not know how to correctly insert or fit a hearing protection device.

The bottom line is that earplugs provide the same amount of protection shown on the packaging provided we know how to correctly insert them.

A side note: When using two hearing protectors (i.e., earplugs and earmuffs), OSHA recommends adding 5 dB to the NRR of the hearing protection device with the higher NRR rating.

*****

While I was editing my post, @Grace asked a key, cut-to-the-chase question. If she is wearing properly-fitted earplugs with a 33 NRR, and is in a 95 dB setting, will her hearing protection result in her being exposed to 62 dB?

The short answer is "yes". The longer answer is your earplugs may enable you to be exposed to less than 62 dB at certain frequencies. (For more information, see the details on the packaging for your earplugs.)

In the example I used earlier in the thread, Flents Soft Foam Ear Plugs have an NRR of 33. These ear plugs attenuate sound by 33 dB at 125 Hz and provide protection in the mid-to-high 30s in the frequency range of 250 Hz to 2 kHz. Surprisingly, the maximum attenuation provided at 6 kHz and at 8 kHz is 45.4 dB and 46 dB, respectively.

here2help

Thank you, I did have problems fitting ear plug, I will follow the directions Thanks.much appreciated!

 

[Ken219]

Once you quoted OSHA the validity decreased by 75%.

 

[Zimichael]

Seems like this thread is at it's end. However, if either you Tenna, or ATEOS read this, I would like you to know that I appreciate the dialogue/information/bouncing around of opinions/differences of opinions/ etc. that this thread so typically illustrates and you have bothered to share. [After all it chews up less energy to stay silent].
To me, that is as it should be and I'm glad that there is the room to agree to disagree - though somewhat minimal in this instance. More just different viewpoints, as I happen to agree perfectly with both of them...Both you guys.
I have the 'damage' to fully get behind what ATEOS is warning of (so I do not see it as "negative" at all), yet have been around the tinnitus blocks for long enough to know that somehow we have to 'risk to live' too, despite the potential for regret. It's a tricky balance and indeed one I have gained and lost in...so God knows how I would choose in a case like this, where a concert would potentially be possible. [Which it is 100% not for me - so I guess that answer is easy!].

ATEOS, I want to add, that I also appreciate the depth and quality of the material/information you share. You have a knack for blending science and data with situations (hence your "name" I presume). Even if you get flak for that at times, don't stop! It's great. Often amazing. Often unique. Always rewarding - for me at least.

Thanks again...and glad you did OK Tenna.

Zimichael

 

[SoulStation]

Ok so lets say i properly fit an earplug that is 33 db.. Which i always do and there never sticking out and im out somewhere thats 95 db.. Will that bring it down to 67db or no?

Yes. You're fine. As long as you take brakes and what not. I think overthinking all of this stuff will cause us to become hermits. Even though it scares me that I have to play 90-120 minute sets sometimes with a band that well exceeds 100 db I take refuge in the fact that either my musicians plugs (ER-25)or my Good old foam Howard light (NRR 33) will provide me with protection.

 

[Grace]

Yes. You're fine. As long as you take brakes and what not. I think overthinking all of this stuff will cause us to become hermits. Even though it scares me that I have to play 90-120 minute sets sometimes with a band that well exceeds 100 db I take refuge in the fact that either my musicians plugs (ER-25)or my Good old foam Howard light (NRR 33) will provide me with protection.

It does for chris martin anyways.. He said his hasnt gotten any worse in ten years and he plays shows that are 100+ db. I know its different for everyone but ill never be a hermit. I can deal with not goin to concerts and clubs but bars and movies and whatnot ill wear earplugs and enjoyyy

 

[SoulStation]

It does for chris martin anyways.. He said his hasnt gotten any worse in ten years and he plays shows that are 100+ db. I know its different for everyone but ill never be a hermit. I can deal with not goin to concerts and clubs but bars and movies and whatnot ill wear earplugs and enjoyyy

Chris uses special in ear monitors that as far as I know can only attenuate the sound max of 25db...but there's not that much happening on stage sound wise if there are no conventional monitors (wedges). But who knows if his has gotten worse. I mean, I don't think he'd make it public unless the band broke up or they stopped touring for some reason. But it does inspire me to know active rockstars carry on over the T. Wish he would join TT. LOL

 

[Grace]

Chris uses special in ear monitors that as far as I know can only attenuate the sound max of 25db...but there's not that much happening on stage sound wise if there are no conventional monitors (wedges). But who knows if his has gotten worse. I mean, I don't think he'd make it public unless the band broke up or they stopped touring for some reason. But it does inspire me to know active rockstars carry on over the T. Wish he would join TT. LOL

Yeah, i know. I would LOVEE to meet ozzy ozbourne too.. He has bad T i heard.. No wonder he screams when he talks.. And he continues to play.. I just really wonder how it effects him ya know? I just always assumed hes always doped on something to not care lol

 

[Tenna]

Indeed @Zimichael to learn and illuminate others it's essential to be up for debate, it just does demand quite some time and effort.
As to the negativity it was not so much about the warning part of it as sharing general knowledge on it is much needed, it was more undermining what a concert (and something of that caliber) mean to other people. It isn't the end of the world to many, and I envy that, in op's thread concert's meaningfulness is quite given to me, so I just find it unnecessary and counterproductive to provide a reply with how meaningless it is that being said I like seeing debate triggers, to me it's the best way we all can learn

 

[Gifford]

Hi @ampumpkin: My tinnitus is not noise induced. It was caused by barometric trauma that came from taking a long overseas airplane flight while I had an undetected sinus infection. I do have a slight hearing loss at very high frequencies due to inner ear damage.

LadyDi ... My T was also caused by a barometric pressure injury on a flight on May 2, though I probably had some hearing loss before that flight. If I only knew this were possible, I never would have gotten on that plane. As my T is only in my left ear, I am very afraid of flying again. An otologist said he wouldn't ground me, be said to take Sudefed before flying to make sure all passages are clear, and under no circumstances am I to fly if I have a cold. For the time being, I am grounding myself, which is a shame since I have family that lives 2,000 miles away and a love to travel. .... Sigh.

 

[quietatnight]

I sure wouldn't go, not for free even with front roll seats, buy the CD, an listen to it at a safe loudness. Its just not worth the risk. But your going that you want to anyway. Take it from a guy that played in band,,, "its not worth the payment"

Good luck

Louie

 

[I who love music]

Coming up June 21st, I have tickets to see Maroon 5 in Montreal at an outdoor concert. It's my favorite band.

In the past, I've been to concerts with earplugs and to the Monster Trucks wearing ear muffs. Since my last exposure to loud noises, my T has increased, like I mentionned before, due to ototoxic meds.

So the concert will be the first time that I'm around very loud noises with my new louder T.

I was thinking of wearing earmuffs again which block most noises but am also wondering if this is enough? Should I wear ear plugs in the ear muffs? Should I just avoid going to the concert altogether?

what is your advice on this?

Don't go.
Low rumbling sounds are transmitted by bone conduction, not air conduction. Earplugs won't help. Is it worth it if your T goes up? That's the question.

 

[ampumpkin]

I ended up going No impact on my T. Had earplugs on the whole time and earmuffs, just in case.