Platelet Rich Plasma Injections

[Artemis2K]

I'm interested in a discussion exclusively focused on BDNF now that Otonomy shut down. Since their smaller dose of OTO-413 had some noteworthy results before they had to leave everything unfinished, I am very interested in the science of BDNF and whether or not it can be applied from other sources. NT-3 only works within a short window of time, but if Otonomy's (unfinished) research on a BDNF treatment still can be considered to have weight from what they had accomplished in the lower dosage, BDNF might still potentially be an answer.

The question is, how can we have access to it? Platelet-rich-plasma seems the best source for this, but can the BDNF be filtered out and applied with a more potent concentration? So far the only way to ensure there's more BDNF in plasma is from diet, exercise, and supplements. The more accessible the better.

Perhaps it may be best to make a new thread about this, but I think that PRP is best source. Unfortunately, I have growing doubt that unfiltered PRP is adequate for chronic damage for most people. There is evidence that it helps earlier trauma, but not older damage, and yet BDNF alone might be able to do that, apparently, if the lower dose research from Otonomy are valid.

 

[scotty03874]

I'm interested in a discussion exclusively focused on BDNF now that Otonomy shut down. Since their smaller dose of OTO-413 had some noteworthy results before they had to leave everything unfinished, I am very interested in the science of BDNF and whether or not it can be applied from other sources. NT-3 only works within a short window of time, but if Otonomy's (unfinished) research on a BDNF treatment still can be considered to have weight from what they had accomplished in the lower dosage, BDNF might still potentially be an answer.

The question is, how can we have access to it? Platelet-rich-plasma seems the best source for this, but can the BDNF be filtered out and applied with a more potent concentration? So far the only way to ensure there's more BDNF in plasma is from diet, exercise, and supplements. The more accessible the better.

Perhaps it may be best to make a new thread about this, but I think that PRP is best source. Unfortunately, I have growing doubt that unfiltered PRP is adequate for chronic damage for most people. There is evidence that it helps earlier trauma, but not older damage, and yet BDNF alone might be able to do that, apparently, if the lower dose research from Otonomy are valid.

I did PRP injections as well as bone marrow injections and it didn't help me. That was in July of 2022. I wasted $10,000...

 

[Artemis2K]

I did PRP injections as well as bone marrow injections and it didn't help me. That was in July of 2022. I wasted $10,000...

Right, which is why I'm inquiring on whether or not the BDNF protein can be extracted from the PRP to form a potent concentration independent from the PRP itself. PRP already has several other growth factors and such that might get in the way in the one ingredient that might have some effect. So far, PRP as a whole seems to only be effective as an alternative to a cortisone shot, but if the BDNF can be exclusively taken from that and used to form a separate treatment, that would be interesting, because the lower dosage of the Otonomy BDNF treatment that was being researched has some noteworthy results. It would be nice if it was possible to get BDNF independently without having to wait for a clinical trialed drug. PRP might not be able to do anything, but could a pure BDNF treatment?

 

[just1morething]

I did PRP injections as well as bone marrow injections and it didn't help me. That was in July of 2022. I wasted $10,000...

I wonder what kind of track record that doctor has for helping people with tinnitus and/or hearing loss? He seems to charge a lot. Was that Dr. Minbo Shim that did your procedure or someone he trained in Florida?

 

[just1morething]

Well of course $10,000 is nothing if it works and you get your quality of life back.

 

[scotty03874]

I wonder what kind of track record that doctor has for helping people with tinnitus and/or hearing loss? He seems to charge a lot. Was that Dr. Minbo Shim that did your procedure or someone he trained in Florida?

Dr. Minbo Shim was there but the other doctor did the PRP/bone marrow injections with Dr. Minbo Shim supervising over him. I was patient zero at this clinic with Dr. Minbo Shim's protocol, I actually made their introduction.

Well of course $10,000 is nothing if it works and you get your quality of life back.

I can't agree more, I would pay $250,000 if someone could guarantee fixing my hearing loss, hyperacusis and tinnitus.

 

[Artemis2K]

@scotty03874, after further research, I am back looking at IGF-1 now that I have learned that it can indeed be extracted from PRP. There's so many scientific publications on IGF-1 out of all the growth factors in PRP that have shown that IGF-1 standalone can induce proliferation of stereocilia and support cells, as well as repair stereocilia and ribbon synapses. I want to try a treatment of pure IGF-1 of at least 150 micrograms (publications that have shown IGF-1 to be effective that have mentioned the dosage have mentioned an average of 150 micrograms) and maybe exosomes, but nothing else to avoid dilution.

Originally I was going to try seeing about an off-label treatment of IGF-1 using a lab made variant, but that's too much of a risk because an excess of IGF-1 can be a risk for cancer and type 2 diabetes. IGF-1 that's already in the body doesn't create that risk.

I've been interested in PRP and IGF-1 because of the publications, but IGF-1 moreso because there seems to be more publications of efficacy for standalone IGF-1, and people here kept repeating disappointing results on PRP.

I feel like the answer is pure IGF-1 (and maybe exosomes alongside), and if this doesn't work despite the numerous publications that show that it should, then growth factors may actually not be the solution at all, unfortunately, which would be extremely weird because of the many publications that suggest it should.

Since the one in Florida is closest, I will try to get a consultation in the next two weeks and get a cost estimate.

 

[ErikaS]

@scotty03874, after further research, I am back looking at IGF-1 now that I have learned that it can indeed be extracted from PRP. There's so many scientific publications on IGF-1 out of all the growth factors in PRP that have shown that IGF-1 standalone can induce proliferation of stereocilia and support cells, as well as repair stereocilia and ribbon synapses. I want to try a treatment of pure IGF-1 of at least 150 micrograms (publications that have shown IGF-1 to be effective that have mentioned the dosage have mentioned an average of 150 micrograms) and maybe exosomes, but nothing else to avoid dilution.

Originally I was going to try seeing about an off-label treatment of IGF-1 using a lab made variant, but that's too much of a risk because an excess of IGF-1 can be a risk for cancer and type 2 diabetes. IGF-1 that's already in the body doesn't create that risk.

I've been interested in PRP and IGF-1 because of the publications, but IGF-1 moreso because there seems to be more publications of efficacy for standalone IGF-1, and people here kept repeating disappointing results on PRP.

I feel like the answer is pure IGF-1 (and maybe exosomes alongside), and if this doesn't work despite the numerous publications that show that it should, then growth factors may actually not be the solution at all, unfortunately, which would be extremely weird because of the many publications that suggest it should.

Since the one in Florida is closest, I will try to get a consultation in the next two weeks and get a cost estimate.

@Artemis2K, do you know how IGF-1 is separated from the PRP? That's one of the many things you would need a provider to have access to, the ability to separate and know that it is indeed IGF-1.

 

[Artemis2K]

@Artemis2K, do you know how IGF-1 is separated from the PRP? That's one of the many things you would need a provider to have access to, the ability to separate and know that it is indeed IGF-1.

Both chromatography and immunoaffinity purification can be used to purify IGF-1 from plasma or serum. However, immunoaffinity purification is often the preferred method for isolating low concentrations of a specific protein from a complex mixture, such as plasma. This is because the technique is highly specific, and can isolate the target protein with a high degree of purity and yield.

Supposedly, extracts that are a milligram could cost thousands of dollars, perhaps tens of thousands at its worst. However, I would only be looking for 0.15 to 0.3 milligrams (150 to 300 micrograms) at the most, so it would depend on if in this case less quantities would be least expensive.

I've found quite a few studies that have used PRP extracted IGF-1 on humans for regenerative research, however, I realize now that this couldn't mean that every regenerative clinic out there would have this technology... despite the clear efficiency and efficacy.

 

[SmallRonnie]

@Artemis2K, do you know how IGF-1 is separated from the PRP? That's one of the many things you would need a provider to have access to, the ability to separate and know that it is indeed IGF-1.

Peptide Sciences offer 4 different types of IGF-1. If you go to their website, you will find a lot of links to published research. They are the highest quality provider of peptides that I am aware of outside of compound pharmacies.

 

[Artemis2K]

Peptide Sciences offer 4 different types of IGF-1. If you go to their website, you will find a lot of links to published research. They are the highest quality provider of peptides that I am aware of outside of compound pharmacies.

Foreign standalone IGF-1 is a cancer and diabetes risk because it creates an imbalance in the system, as opposed to what is naturally produced in the body. Although 0.15 and 0.3 milligrams of IGF-1 are small, I would prefer to encourage risk minimization. IGF-1 that comes from the body is a lot less risky because it's literally moving what was already made somewhere else. There's also a potential cost comparative issue.

 

[Artemis2K]

I must admit that the more I look into the "peptide" version, the more I am interested in trying to get that from an ENT. If the price is really around $100 for a milligram, and the cost of an IT-injection isn't tremendous, then the concept becomes really enticing. If the peptide variant is truly safer in comparison, and if 0.15 mg - 0.3 mg isn't big enough for it to be a likely safety risk in the first place, then it becomes even more so compelling.

Unfortunately, I'm just really worried about the result. What if it doesn't work? What if I end up with no regeneration but a health issue? After all, no matter the studies that show good results on humans and mammals for other cochlea-related ailments, there doesn't appear to be any study that focuses on gradual noise-induced hearing loss that started from a decade ago.

There's also the idea of exosomes from plasma that is intriguing. If that stuff can really encourage healing, I wonder how much it would have an effect on the ear.

...I'll figure it out. My ENT appointment is next month.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I must admit that the more I look into the "peptide" version, the more I am interested in trying to get that from an ENT. If the price is really around $100 for a milligram, and the cost of an IT-injection isn't tremendous, then the concept becomes really enticing. If the peptide variant is truly safer in comparison, and if 0.15 mg - 0.3 mg isn't big enough for it to be a likely safety risk in the first place, then it becomes even more so compelling.

Unfortunately, I'm just really worried about the result. What if it doesn't work? What if I end up with no regeneration but a health issue? After all, no matter the studies that show good results on humans and mammals for other cochlea-related ailments, there doesn't appear to be any study that focuses on gradual noise-induced hearing loss that started from a decade ago.

There's also the idea of exosomes from plasma that is intriguing. If that stuff can really encourage healing, I wonder how much it would have an effect on the ear.

...I'll figure it out. My ENT appointment is next month.

Is there any research showing that something like this has even been tried before? I would definitely be worried about causing more harm than good. At least stem cells have research backing that they work, albeit only one small study.

 

[Artemis2K]

Is there any research showing that something like this has even been tried before? I would definitely be worried about causing more harm than good. At least stem cells have research backing that they work, albeit only one small study.

Most of what I've read online of studies on humans have been focused on sudden sensorineural hearing loss, including the PRP (which contain IGF-1). Although the results are good and promising, those are still not old injuries, so it's hard to tell.

Studies on mice, on the other hand, have shown repair of stereocilia and synaptic ribbons, as well as proliferation of stereocilia and support cells.

The studies that do exist are promising, but they're limited. Our best bet is for someone to try this out themselves. I guess that's going to end up being me.

People on here that have tried PRP didn't have satisfactory results, and yet the studies on the sudden sensorineural hearing loss did, which is bewildering to me. My only possible potential explanation is that it has something to do with IGF-1 levels, dilution, quantity, frequency, and/or possibly time window. I'm hoping that it isn't time window. For regenerative medicine (PRP especially) to work on really old nerve injuries for other things, but not the cochlea, doesn't really make much sense to me, because of what IGF-1 has been shown to be capable of doing, so there hopefully is a workable explanation.

With all this discussion, I've become more and more interested in trying the peptide variant. Might as well if it's at such a low price as is supposedly safer in comparison to recombinant. Even with recombinant, as far as I know, a low dosage would still be safe, so a low dosage of peptide IGF-1 may decrease the risks more.

I will say, however, that I am continuously unsure of the 0.15 mg - 0.3 mg dosage. It may be too small. The source that I got that idea turned out to be unreliable.

 

[silenceismusic]

Is there any information or consensus on how and where the PRP is injected in order to potentially work for tinnitus? I hope people are aware that PRP is cheap as s**t, and so unless a very special injecting technique is needed, this could be done for a few hundred bucks. I doubt it will have much benefit for inner ear damage but I would be willing to try for sure. But not for those $10,000 prices people list here... But those are bundled with stem cells or something? Otherwise no way to justify the price.

I remember reading in a stem cell thread that a clinic in Asia (one that a few members from Tinnitus Talk visited) injected the stem cells and PRP into some particular muscle close to the ear. If that's the technique, then honestly that could be done by any nurse or cosmetic injector. Cosmetic PRP injections are around €200 where I live...

 

[Leodavinci]

I am going to try and get this done as I am in severe discomfort from reactive tinnitus and hyperacusis and it has ruined my life. There is something going on with my nerves and I have to try something. Thank you for posting your testimony here.

@Eddie, thank you for posting about yours. I am not far from Turtle Creek Surgery Center in Tyler, TX. I am going to see if I can find some relief. Any updates on how you are doing nowadays?

Let us know if you are able to get PRP done in Texas for your ears. I'm sure it is not FDA approved for this purpose because it might work. This is the main reason I don't live in the US any longer.

Good luck. I will research where it is done. So far it looks like South Korea has approved it for ear conditions.