Playing on Piano Eb, G4 and Bb4 Chords Make My Ears "Resonate", Hearing Low Zoom/Buzz Like Sound

[Rinz]

Hello everyone,

My name is Rinz, I posted on this forum a couple of times before. I have had tinnitus for about 19 years now and I have learnt to cope with it for the most time (with occasional setbacks). However, since a short while ago I discovered that I am becoming quite sensitive to some frequencies, especially in my right ear. For example, if there is no sound, I already hear some "zoom zoom zoom" sound (which has been present for quite a while), but when frequencies like around G4 and Bb4 (on the piano) are played, but basically any frequencies around that range, then weirdly my ears, especially my right ear, starts kinda resonating. I am noticing that also like everyday sound become a bit louder than they used to be, especially in my right ear. If I cover my right ear, its not that bad. Its not painful or terribly annoying yet, but its definitely different from my normal experience with sound.

Is this what is meant with hyperacusis? I never had this experience before. So, some sounds like some people's voices, the windows sound when you change the volume on the PC, G4/Bb4 on the piano etc, when played they immediately make my ears go zoomzoomzoom like something is resonating in it, if the sound stops, that resonating zoom also stops.

I will look through the fora to read other people's experiences, but it's a weird new sensation for me. Also, not sure what caused it, I protect my ears in noisy situations (but I try to live without plugs as much as possible). So, is this (some form of) hyperacusis or do you think its something else?

Thanks for your reply,

Rinz

 

[Allan1967]

Playing piano screwed me up and my life has been hell since.

 

[Contrast]

TLDR, There are two or three different medical conditions caused by hearing damage that are all labelled hyperacusis. When they are seperate issues, Audiologist are completely useless for hyperacusis, and there's a high profile quack loved by audiologist named Pawel Jastreboff who pretends he can cure most cases of hyperacusis and has not distinguished the different types of hyperacusis. Below is research cited on hyperacusis, be wary of anyone saying they can cure this.


1: Loudness hyperacusis: Sounds are hyper amplified by the audiotory brain which can make them sound REALLY LOUD, believed to be hyperactivity of nerve cells in the audiotory brain also responsible for the preception of tinnitus. That's right, in some cases of tinnitus"loudness hyperacusis" is basically hypothesized to be caused by the same mechanism
Central Gain Control in Tinnitus and Hyperacusis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4208401/.
https://www.entandaudiologynews.com...iological-mechanisms-of-hyperacusis-an-update

2: Pain hyperacusis (noxacusis): A horrible, poorly documented medical condition causing Burning, aching, numbness, itching, acid under skin sensation from noise deeming some to call it Noise Induced Pain. Research suggest noxacusis is cochlear noiception and or peripheral neuropathy of cochlear nerve fibers. It is believed to be caused by a small minority of outer hair cell nerve fibers when the ear is exposed to noxious noise 120+db or damaged in specific ways.

Unmyelinated type II afferent neurons report cochlear damage.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26553995

3: TTTS/Trigeminal nerve irritation hyperacusis ???
Muscle spasms in the middle ear, (this could distort hearing by making annoying spasms and thump noises), hypothesis suggest the trigminal nerve is involved as well sending pain/aching signals.
https://www.entandaudiologynews.com...avelling-the-mystery-of-hyperacusis-with-pain

There is a connection between the tensor typani (ear drum muscle), dorsal cochlear nucleus (auditory brain) and the trigeminal nerve (a large network of nerves branching through out the face)
A Case of Acoustic Shock with Post-trauma Trigeminal-Autonomic Activation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5562182

 

[Rinz]

Thanks a lot. It's probably not 2 or 3, but I guess the beginning stages of 1 then? It doesn't hurt (yet) but it's just very evident that my ears somehow are quite sensitive to some frequencies.. This has not happened to me before and I do protect my hearing quite well.. So.. No idea how I got it, or whether it'll subside or get worse... In any case I'll check out those articles. Thanks!

 

[Michael Leigh]

HI @Rinz

You should try and get your hyperacusis and tinnitus treated. If you are subjecting your ears and auditory system to sounds that are irritating then this could be an indication of hyperacusis. The information is your post leads me to believe this is the case. Please click on the link below and read my post: Hyperacusis, As I see It, which you might find helpful. I will include other links too.

If you are using any type of headphones even at low volume I advise you to stop.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/

 

[Rinz]

Hi Michael,

Super thanks so much! I am going to read the links you mentioned!

Kind regards,

Rinz

 

[Juan]

TLDR, There are two or three different medical conditions caused by hearing damage that are all labelled hyperacusis. When they are seperate issues, Audiologist are completely useless for hyperacusis, and there's a high profile quack loved by audiologist named Pawel Jastreboff who pretends he can cure most cases of hyperacusis and has not distinguished the different types of hyperacusis. Below is research cited on hyperacusis, be wary of anyone saying they can cure this.


1: Loudness hyperacusis: Sounds are hyper amplified by the audiotory brain which can make them sound REALLY LOUD, believed to be hyperactivity of nerve cells in the audiotory brain also responsible for the preception of tinnitus. That's right, in some cases of tinnitus"loudness hyperacusis" is basically hypothesized to be caused by the same mechanism
Central Gain Control in Tinnitus and Hyperacusis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4208401/.
https://www.entandaudiologynews.com...iological-mechanisms-of-hyperacusis-an-update

View attachment 29078


2: Pain hyperacusis (noxacusis): A horrible, poorly documented medical condition causing Burning, aching, numbness, itching, acid under skin sensation from noise deeming some to call it Noise Induced Pain. Research suggest noxacusis is cochlear noiception and or peripheral neuropathy of cochlear nerve fibers. It is believed to be caused by a small minority of outer hair cell nerve fibers when the ear is exposed to noxious noise 120+db or damaged in specific ways.




View attachment 29079
Unmyelinated type II afferent neurons report cochlear damage.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26553995

View attachment 29080

3: TTTS/Trigeminal nerve irritation hyperacusis ???
Muscle spasms in the middle ear, (this could distort hearing by making annoying spasms and thump noises), hypothesis suggest the trigminal nerve is involved as well sending pain/aching signals.
https://www.entandaudiologynews.com...avelling-the-mystery-of-hyperacusis-with-pain
View attachment 29081
There is a connection between the tensor typani (ear drum muscle), dorsal cochlear nucleus (auditory brain) and the trigeminal nerve (a large network of nerves branching through out the face)
A Case of Acoustic Shock with Post-trauma Trigeminal-Autonomic Activation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5562182

Actually I have most symptoms from the 3 cathegories, but I would say is mostly the 2nd type, pain hyperacusis.

 

[Rinz]

damn..I have to say.. its really astonishing.. i have used a pitch generator just to check what is going on.. (https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/)
watch out always when doing these kinda things with the volume (if you do this yourself).. i use very low volume (no headset, just speakers)..

RESULTS:
if there is no sound.. then I have no real feedback in my ears..of course some "zooms".. but not as a consequence of actual sound..

left ear
253Hz - beginning
frequencies around 300Hz - become like a "standing wave" in my left ear
335Hz - seems to kinda hurt my ear..(so turned that off quickly; note: 1st overtone 670Hz doesn't do anything)
388Hz - the influencing/resonating effect diminishes on this ear..

right ear
280 - beginning
frequencies around 400Hz - become like a "standing wave" in my left ear
476Hz - the influencing/resonating effect diminishes on this ear..

so for example.. 388Hz does nothing in my left ear.. but becomes like a "standing wave" (resonating) in my right ear..

so above 476Hz everything is kinda "fine" for both my ears.. but between 253 and 476Hz... both my left ear (starts earlier) and my right ear (starts later) are somehow very sensitive to particular frequencies.. and cause a resonating effect in my ears.. I find this extremely weird.. anyone has similar experiences?

 

[humptydumpty69]

@Rinz,

I'm not sure what you mean by "resonating". My own ears used to vibrate from irritating frequencies, before my condition progressed. I lived with it for years unhindered, it felt like nerves twitching. Mostly my reaction was prompted by the phone, and only in my better ear. The audiologist commented that it was probably my outer hair cells damaged or dying. I later had an experience of noise trauma that progressed my condition.

My suggestion to you would be to protect your ears around any high decibels; and if you find that your ears are constantly "resonating," you should avoid that frequency. Even if my own reaction was prolonged, as long as it was intermittent, it wasn't problematic. It's when there was no time between constant vibrations that it was an issue, like the difference between nerve twitches and a full on spasm.

I used to play in full amplified/percussive ensembles with foam ear plugs, I played acoustic grand piano, I listened to ear buds at moderate to high volumes without discomfort or injury; but hearing disorders are highly subjective, so it's difficult for any of us to say what you could or should/shouldn't do; which is why you will get many conservative responses concerning advice. The only thing that we are certain about is abstention from volume.

My own reaction was to high frequency, some of us like to think that the tinnitus pitch correlates to the area of damage; my tinnitus was G6, G4 is quite low to be having problems. With middle to lower frequencies impacting you, I would imagine that it is less practical for you to avoid pitches that irritate you. You should focus on prevention, and then also consider researching alternative therapies that could aid you in prevention. There are many supplements and therapies discussed on Ttalk which impact everyone differently. Personally, I like to think that many of us have damage too far gone for the subtle effects of alternative therapies to aid, but those of us with less damage, or maybe superficial or recent damage, I think are more likely to find benefit. But that path is a lot of trial and error, it requires some loose change, and also an attentiveness toward general knowledge of the human body and medicine.

On a side note, I can say that I once had an ENT extract a decent amount of ear wax which was pressing up against my ear drum; this did lessen the vibrations that I was experiencing, but in no way did it cure them. If you ever find yourself at the ENT (knock on wood), maybe that could give you some minor relief as well.

Best of luck to you, and take care,

Humpty Dumpty

 

[RingerBell]

@Rinz
I have this vibrating sensation with various frequencies between 20-200hz. It's like I would hear another sound on top of the original sound, which makes these sounds that are usually considered soft background sounds very noticeable. I guess it's my tinnitus what I hear on top of them that is like a distant helicopter or idling truck. I also experience this on other frequencies above 200hz, but milder.

 

[Rinz]

Dear humptydumpty and ringer bell,

Thanks a lot for both your replies. Although I am a Tinnitus veteran (19 years now) I am quite new to this sensitivity to sound. Its kinda freaking me out. I mean, I don't mind having a new sound and I can cope with that.. but to have sounds like a passing airplane or peoples speech or something being amplified and being kinda annoying is quite new to me so I have no strategy yet for this, to cope with it.. I still have hope that its a medical problem, so I will visit my ENT tomorrow.. see what he says..

it really sucks that those 300-400hz sounds seem to resonate in my mind.. also my ears seem to be "full" and kinda annoyed (not hurt yet) by it.. goddammit.. I haven't been exposed to any loud sound.. i have been vigilant.. protecting my ears when necessary.. but not too much to avoid hypersensitivity.. I simply have NO IDEA why I got this.. the only things I could think of is that I didn't wear my plugs in the car to work or something.. and recently I ate quite a salty hotpot.. (I know salt is not good).. after that my ears were kinda "full".. but that cleared the next day.. however, isn't that all too far fetched?..maybe I am just getting old and my hair cells start simply breaking down or something.. I read that some got over this, so I'll try my best..

humptydumpty: yeah I have good plugs which I use in relatively loud circumstances like the noisy train or in crowded areas.. but more than that.. I am not sure what I can do..

I see that Ringerbell has very similar symptoms to mine.. any ideas why you got this, Ringerbell? does it get more pronounced over time or does it get better or stays the same? Anything you are doing to cope with it?

Thanks a lot guys for all your help.. I can't ask anybody else but the people on this forum, as you are also experiencing ear problems..

Kind regards,

Rinz

 

[Rinz]

I went to the ENT today.. despite the golden week (I live in Japan).. he got quite a lot of cerumen from both my ears.. he tried to use the mini vacuum cleaner.. but I refused.. so he took it out "old fashioned style" using small tools.. and its clear now.. I did an hearing test and for the most part it was fine, my low tones (125, 250hz) showed a minor decline (like 20Db) but overall my hearing was not very poor..

the ENT asked whether I was dizzy (meniere?) which i am not (at the moment).. and he kept on talking about that my high tones were okay, but my low tones were not.. and something with the apex of the cochlea.. well my Japanese is not that good.. so I couldn't understand everything he was telling me..

so, now I am typing this, and as there is no sound, i do not hear any low-frequency "echo/resonance".. however if there is sound of a particular frequency (around 250-475 Hz) then I hear some low-frequency resonating...especially around 335 Hz.. (tested it using the tone generator website I mentioned in a previous post).. remarkably I can still perceive 14000 Hz somehow.... (very faint though).. so the thing is really that around a certain frequency range my ears start "buzzing"..

I am hoping that it might be related to the buildup of cerumen or so (I did have my ears cleaned about 6 months ago, but it evidently builds up fast)..and that it hopefully will get better.. I am putting a white noise generator in my room for the night as to desensitize my brain.. (for lack of a better term)...I do think its weird and it sucks.. i never had this in my life..

 

[RingerBell]

I see that Ringerbell has very similar symptoms to mine.. any ideas why you got this, Ringerbell? does it get more pronounced over time or does it get better or stays the same? Anything you are doing to cope with it?

Unfortunately I don´t have much answers, I can only guess what causes it. For me, I think it´s a combination of hearing loss and tinnitus, like listening something through a broken speaker. Having something like this in everyday sound range (20Hz to 1kHz) just makes it more easy to get exact matches with the frequency range where the problem lies. It´s not rare to see people with tinnitus hear some frequencies distorted.

Coping with it is quite hard as it´s pretty random because of external noises and it actually affects my ability to hear. Some degree of habituation does happen, i.e. it doesn´t cause me as much stress anymore as it did in the beginning. But I can´t ignore it completely and it still isn´t fun symptom to live with.

However, it seems like you haven´t had this symptom for a long time, so things can get better with time. I hope yours will get better.

 

[Rinz]

Hi ringer bell

Thanks for your reply and sharing your story. Hope it gets better too. I still have no idea why I got this, but perhaps I'll never know... It's so weird.. I just hear a buzz echo or something everytime a sound between 250 to 400hz is there.. It's good to hear you got less stress over time. Hope I can achieve the same

Kind regards

Rinz

 

[Rinz]

hmm.. I discovered that unfortunately its not only an echo.. yesterday I was playing a computer game (age of empires 3, really old game)... and in this game there is a steam train (dont ask me why).. and.. when it whistled.. the sound seemed to be very distorted.. I analyzed the sound using praat (http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/) and found that some frequencies of this train whistle also within the range I am *currently( sensitive in.. but it was really weird.. so this train whistle was kinda accompanied by a drilling sound which was my low buzz reacting to that whistle..really weird.. never heard sound being distorted by my T before.. im guessing more and more that I have kinda reactive tinnitus in the lower range or something.. im taking VitB supplement along with ストミンA which is Papaverine and Nicotinamide.. I am thinking to use magnesium.. but unsure which one is best...

 

[Rinz]

some good news.. (not sure if anyone cares haha).. my sensitivity to these frequencies seems to be dissipating (or gone).. I tested my ears again.. and those resonance/standing waves.. seem to be largely gone. Also, no distortion present for the train whistle sound anymore..*sigh*.. doesnt mean it can't come back I guess but.. for now.. its okay.. not sure what caused it in the first place.. my guess is that because I had 2 cerumen plugs (which the ent took out) this blocked my ear.. and my brain somehow adjusted itself to the new auditory reality..

I took vitamin B supplement, Prednisolone (5mg), Papaverine and Nicotinamide, and some herbal stuff.. for about a week.. (not sure if that did anything)..

anyway.. back to work..