PQQ (Pyrroloquinoline quinone) and Neurogenesis

[Rube]

Well, that's what I'm trying to point out @gotyoubynuts .
There's seems to be some solid science behind CBD oil as a therapeutic option for various ailments and there seems to be some solid science behind this PQQ stuff.
But does it/will it work? Call me a pessimist but I'd firmly say no.

How did the hardcore drugs you took work out for you?

 

[undecided]

Some worked wonders, some were über fails.
If there was some lab that would put in work improving/combining the ones that work, I believe we'd be one step closer towards the end of the tunnel.

 

[Markku]

@DebInAustralia asked me to forward this here (thanks Deb!), Life Extension's response in relation to the concerns that PQQ depletes glutathione:


Thank you for your recent correspondence.

We are sorry that you are dealing with severe tinnitus and hyperacusis, and would be happy to provide information on PQQ to ease your concerns.

PQQ (pyrroloquinoline quinone) is an antioxidant in plants, and can be found, in small amounts, in foods like green peppers, papaya, and kiwi. As you know, one of the most interesting things about PQQ is that it supports the growth of new mitochondria. Additionally, PQQ protects the mitochondrial DNA from damage, enhances the production of ATP in the body, protects the nerves from damage, and quenches free radicals.

Mitochondria are organelles that reside in our cells. They make an energy compound called ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) which fuels the metabolic reactions in our bodies. Whenever there is an increase in energy production, as is the case when a person exercises or takes PQQ, you can get an increase in oxidative species (free radicals), as they are a byproduct of enhanced mitochondrial activity. The mitochondria produces free radicals, such as superoxide anion, hydrogen peroxide and peroxynitrite, please see the link below for the abstract to an article that discusses mitochondrial free radical production and cell signaling. If the mitochondria are dysfunctional, cells are dysfunctional and are more likely to die.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15051313

Glutathione, an essential nutrient for humans, is synthesized in the body from the amino acids L-cysteine, L-glutamic acid, and glycine. The sulfhydryl group (SH) of cysteine serves as a proton donor and is responsible for its biological activity. Cysteine is the rate-limiting factor in cellular glutathione biosynthesis, since this amino acid is relatively rare in foods. Glutathione works as an electron donor, donating electrons to certain proteins, and converting them into cysteines. This converts glutathione to the oxidized form, also known as glutathione disulfide (GSSG) or L-glutathione.

Glutamate, or glutamic acid, is mostly metabolized in the brain and is an essential neurotransmitter which is necessary for normal, healthy brain function. It is also one third of glutathione, and adequate amounts of glutamic acid are necessary for optimal glutathione levels. However, excessive glutamate stimulation of brain cells, or excitotoxicity, is a major factor in the development of long-term neurodegenerative disorders, stroke, and schizophrenia. Glutamate-induced excitotoxicity triggers undesired programmed cell death, or apoptosis. Fortunately, not only can PQQ help protect against the damaging effects of excitotoxicity, it can also help prevent it from occurring to begin with. For more information, please see the link below:

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2016/4/How-PQQ-Protects-the-Brain/Page-01

In conclusion, when PQQ quenches free radicals it becomes a reduced form of PQQ called PQQH2. It is recycled back to PQQ using glutathione. In order to maintain optimal levels of glutathione, we suggest taking antioxidants and supplements that support glutathione levels, such as vitamin C, N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC) and R-lipoic acid. Below, we have provided links to the aforementioned products.

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item01541/Glutathione-Cysteine-C

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item01208/Super-R-Lipoic-Acid

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item01534/N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item01717/Fast-C-with-Dihydroquercetin

 

[ragnaboz2]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20432928

If that case occurs; there will be acoustic neuroma on vestibular nerve. That means PQQ may be a trigger of tinnitus, even in healthy subjects.

 

[Cityjohn]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20432928

If that case occurs; there will be acoustic neuroma on vestibular nerve. That means PQQ may be a trigger of tinnitus, even in healthy subjects.

Pray tell how did you reach that conclusion?

 

[gotyoubynuts]

Pray tell how did you reach that conclusion?

An acoustic neuroma, also called vestibular schwannoma, is a benign, slow-growing tumor that arises from the Schwann cells forming the sheath (covering) of the vestibulocochlear nerve.

If this supplement promotes the proliferation of Schwann cells, it can cause acoustic neuroma?

 

[ragnaboz2]

Pray tell how did you reach that conclusion?

could you please work over PI3K/Akt pathway? By the way @gotyoubynuts has seen it. And another thing is I am talking about the %1-2 possibility.

 

[whiskeykonteq]

An acoustic neuroma, also called vestibular schwannoma, is a benign, slow-growing tumor that arises from the Schwann cells forming the sheath (covering) of the vestibulocochlear nerve.

If this supplement promotes the proliferation of Schwann cells, it can cause acoustic neuroma?

Schwann cells are not equal to schwannoma.

Schwann cells (TA: Gliocytus periphericus) (named after physiologist Theodor Schwann) or neurolemmocytes are the principal glia of the peripheral nervous system (PNS). Glial cells function to support neurons and in the PNS, also include satellite cells, olfactory ensheathing cells, enteric glia and glia that reside at sensory nerve endings, such as the Pacinian corpuscle. There are two types of Schwann cell, myelinating and nonmyelinating. Myelinating Schwann cells wrap around axons of motor and sensory neurons to form the myelin sheath. The Schwann cell promoter is present in the Downstream region of the Human Dystrophin Gene that gives shortened transcript that are again synthesized in a tissue specific manner.

 

[ragnaboz2]

Schwann cells are not equal to schwannoma.

Of course not; but ...
A schwannoma (also known as an "neurilemoma,"[1]:621 "neuroma,"[2] "neurolemoma,"[2] and "Schwann cell tumor"[2]) is a benign nerve sheath tumor composed of Schwann cells,

 

[Cityjohn]

An acoustic neuroma, also called vestibular schwannoma, is a benign, slow-growing tumor that arises from the Schwann cells forming the sheath (covering) of the vestibulocochlear nerve.

If this supplement promotes the proliferation of Schwann cells, it can cause acoustic neuroma?

No I think you've misunderstood the context of this specific study. Everything "causes" cancer, in fact right now you're being bombarded with radiation from both space and earth. It's funny because the average person fights off cells gone bad each day.

It takes a little more to get a brain tumor than eating these foods regularly;

 

[erik]

Everything seems to be good for us and yet bad for us too. It is best to increase PQQ and Glutathione is naturally through food and not with supplements. The reason most supplements do not work is because there are too many variables which we cannot control.

For instance, most people pop pills but take little in account that most supplements are not regulated and not created equally, therefore you don't even know how much or even if the active ingredient is for sure in the pill. You have either be a scientist or trust resources like Consumerlab.

Also, many people don't understand how supplements work, what dosage to take or how to properly take them. Some should be taken in smaller doses more frequently, or on empty stomach, sometimes with foods and others are best absorbed in liquid or powdered form. Taking multiple supplements at once can neutralize one another etc etc. If your diet is high in fat or highly acidic that could affect how supplements are absorbed, like taking them before drinking a 24oz latte from Starbucks.

NAC is a popular supplement. However, in higher doses, it is shown to actually protect and fuel cancer cells. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lls-making-them-spread-faster-study-suggests/)

Taking antioxidant supplements in general is probably not a good idea unless you absolutely cannot get these by any other means. Eating a healthy diet is much better option and frankly, not really that difficult with a little effort.

The best way to get increase PQQ or Glutathione is via food not supplements. Everything life extension says will be good because that is there business.

You can increase natural glutathione in your body by exercising regularly, eating salads, sulfer foods like garlic and onions and bioactive denatured whey protein.

 

[Path Maker]

Wise words, @erik .

The thing is, nature produces whole foods, and by eating them, all the various biochemicals, etc. needed to deliver the benefits, are contained within the food itself.

There are times when prudent supplementation helps. It should be chosen wisely.

Also, here's something to consider: Most supplements, even those from the "better" companies, use magnesium stearate as a "flow agent" in the product. Too much of THAT can cause a harmful biofilm in your body and prevent full absorption and cause all kinds of other "silent" ruckus.

 

[Cityjohn]

Here is a good written article about the potential importance of PQQ;

http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/14/3/268.pdf

I have taken PQQ for two days before stopping as I noticed it completely and severely impacted my sleeping pattern for some reason. I have absolutely no idea why it would but I'm curious to know if anyone else had noticed any tiredness after taking PQQ?

 

[DebInAustralia]

Did you take it with nac or other glutathione precursor.

 

[suze]

Some otoxic drugs decrease glutathione, which is neuroprotective (thats the mechanism behind Tylenol causing T). DebinAustralia is right...cysteine is needed for us to produce glutathione, you can't just supplement with it. 'Everyloop'; PQQ isn't depleting glutathione, it is USED by PQQ for recycle/reuptake....so it's not that simple.

 

[Bobby B]

Well I'm taking one pill of PQQ a day 20mg with 900mg of NAC and a bunch of other things like ATP and L-Carnitine and Q10 and various vitamins B

PQQ is found in interstellar dust ! pretty cool no ?

Have not noticed any changes since I started it 3 weeks ago , we will see in the coming months .

 

[Ears Hurt]

@City John I've been taking PQQ and I have not noticed any changes in sleep. I've actually been sleeping a little bit better recently. I normally take the PQQ in the morning.

 

[Alper]

Everything seems to be good for us and yet bad for us too. It is best to increase PQQ and Glutathione is naturally through food and not with supplements. The reason most supplements do not work is because there are too many variables which we cannot control.

For instance, most people pop pills but take little in account that most supplements are not regulated and not created equally, therefore you don't even know how much or even if the active ingredient is for sure in the pill. You have either be a scientist or trust resources like Consumerlab.

Also, many people don't understand how supplements work, what dosage to take or how to properly take them. Some should be taken in smaller doses more frequently, or on empty stomach, sometimes with foods and others are best absorbed in liquid or powdered form. Taking multiple supplements at once can neutralize one another etc etc. If your diet is high in fat or highly acidic that could affect how supplements are absorbed, like taking them before drinking a 24oz latte from Starbucks.

NAC is a popular supplement. However, in higher doses, it is shown to actually protect and fuel cancer cells. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lls-making-them-spread-faster-study-suggests/)

Taking antioxidant supplements in general is probably not a good idea unless you absolutely cannot get these by any other means. Eating a healthy diet is much better option and frankly, not really that difficult with a little effort.

The best way to get increase PQQ or Glutathione is via food not supplements. Everything life extension says will be good because that is there business.

You can increase natural glutathione in your body by exercising regularly, eating salads, sulfer foods like garlic and onions and bioactive denatured whey protein.

WoW. So scared of NAC now, just bought a bottle but scared to take it now.

 

[undecided]

WoW. So scared of NAC now, just bought a bottle but scared to take it now.

From the actual article, not the click-bait you read.

To test whether oxidative stress limits melanoma metastasis, we subcutaneously transplanted efficiently metastasizing melanoma cells derived from three patients into NSG mice and treated the mice with daily subcutaneous injections of the antioxidant N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC; 200 mg / kg / day). In no case did NAC treatment significantly affect the growth of established subcutaneous tumours (Fig. 2a), but it significantly increased the frequency of melanoma cells in the blood of mice transplanted with M405 and UT10 (Fig. 2b), and significantly increased metastatic disease burden in mice with all three melanomas (Fig. 2c). Oxidative stress therefore limits the metastasis of melanoma cells in vivo.

They gave the mice 200mg of NAC per kg per day. How much does a mouse weigh? 1kg? Dunno.
So if you're a healthy, say, 85kg man, you'd have to suck down about 17 kilos of NAC per day in order for the possibility of NAC affecting already existing cancerous cells.

It's well known that antioxidants in high quantities may become pro-oxidants in the body but use a little sense.

 

[Alper]

From the actual article, not the click-bait you read.



They gave the mice 200mg of NAC per kg per day. How much does a mouse weigh? 1kg? Dunno.
So if you're a healthy, say, 85kg man, you'd have to suck down about 17 kilos of NAC per day in order for the possibility of NAC affecting already existing cancerous cells.

It's well known that antioxidants in high quantities may become pro-oxidants in the body but use a little sense.

Thanks for your explanation, I'm a 110kg man so I need way more than 17 kilos of NAC I think.
I will try NAC....hope I have no cancerous cells that I don't know of.

 

[Leon909]

They gave the mice 200mg of NAC per kg per day. How much does a mouse weigh? 1kg? Dunno.
So if you're a healthy, say, 85kg man, you'd have to suck down about 17 kilos of NAC per day in order for the possibility of NAC affecting already existing cancerous cells.

just a quick re-check on the math: I think 200 mg per kg makes 17 gram for a 85kg man.

 

[undecided]

Yeah, I went a little over the top there, thanks @Leon909

 

[gotyoubynuts]

Has anyone else tried this PQQ? Success?

 

[Nate Croteau]

Knowing all of this I wonder if a supplement I've been taking called GABA Calm is having a positive or negative effect on neurogenesis?

 

[juliob]

I am interested in supplements for mitochondrial health. I started taking CoQ10 with Vitamin E for like a week and then also started PQQ, and took all three supplements for 3 days.

What followed is a tinnitus spike in my higher pitch tone.

Is there any risk on these supplements causing permanent worsening on tinnitus? I stopped taking them 2 days ago.