Prednisone Versus Turmeric & Quercetin

[Roosevelt DuPree]

After getting COVID-19 2 weeks ago, I have experienced a major spike in my tinnitus & hyperacusis.

I consulted with my physician (he spoke with me for literally four minutes - I timed it) and he prescribed Prednisone (40 mg loading dose, then an 8-day taper), because "it's worth a shot... couldn't hurt."

Since picking up the prescription from the pharmacy, I have had the opportunity to do some web research and (like damn near everything else tinnitus/hyperacusis-related) the hot takes on Prednisone are varied and wide-ranging from "it totally helped!" to "it destroyed my life!"

So in the meantime, I have been taking Turmeric pills, Quercetin, and the usual vitamins for extra support. And I'll be damned if the tinnitus & hyperacusis haven't eased off a little these past 2 days.

And... since Turmeric and Quercetin work as anti-inflammatories, now I'm starting to reconsider and think that maybe I should try the Prednisone - because it might help even more.

So yeah, here I am in the spot known so very well to all of us who have suffered with tinnitus & hyperacusis over the years - the spot where you are willing to try whatever drug or home remedy that might help the symptoms ease up, but are simultaneously terrified of the possible unwanted side effects. And nobody knows anything for sure.

So instead, of playing Russian roulette with your nervous system, you just keep going to the internet doing deep dives that don't really resolve anything. It's a little crazy making, all the waffling back and forth.

Any thoughts are welcome

 

[guenguer]

Mhmmm, 40 mg of Prednisone is basically nothing. I doubt such a low dose does anything at all for tinnitus or SSNHL.

It isn't even necessary to taper it out.

I had Prednisone several times, always 3 days at 250 mg, IV or oral. Sometimes it helped, sometimes not, but it never made anything worse.

I even had 5 days at 1000 mg.

It's weird how terrified people are of corticosteroids. It's a different thing if someone has to take it for weeks, months or years. Than there are more (severe) possible side effects and needs to be tapered off, even low doses.

 

[Brian Newman]

Mhmmm, 40 mg of Prednisone is basically nothing. I doubt such a low dose does anything at all for tinnitus or SSNHL.

It isn't even necessary to taper it out.

I had Prednisone several times, always 3 days at 250 mg, IV or oral. Sometimes it helped, sometimes not, but it never made anything worse.

I even had 5 days at 1000 mg.

It's weird how terrified people are of corticosteroids. It's a different thing if someone has to take it for weeks, months or years. Than there are more (severe) possible side effects and needs to be tapered off, even low doses.

Wow 250 mg? That's a lot. Like that's a shit ton of Prednisone. You had that much? Every article I found is 60 mg for a two week course and that's the dose I've taken 3 times this year. It definitely helps me. I've never gone above 60 mg a day. 40 mg a day I did too and it's a comfortable dose. Any more than 60 mg makes me too anxious.

 

[DebInAustralia]

I recall Quercetin has potassium channel modulation properties too, but I stopped taking it after I read that it might be ototoxic?

 

[IntotheBlue03]

Hey @DebInAustralia.

Curious where you read about Quercetin being ototoxic? I've been taking it + Bromelain for about a year prior to my chronic onset of tinnitus (that's been intermittent for 5 years).

However, and I'll update this in my original thread, 2-3 days of high dose Prednisone took my 9/10 central tinnitus to a 2/10, after 5 weeks of no relief. Unfortunately I feel now that I'm tapering off that's starting to increase but I'm interested in doubling up on anti-inflammatories to see what happens.

What was interesting is I did labwork both for my CRP and TNF-a and they were both very low/within normal limits (CRP was high during tinnitus onset) but it's clear to me I must still have an inflammatory issue after responding to high dose Prednisone so well.

After this course I will double up and document my original thread.

 

[Uklawyer]

Keep us posted @IntotheBlue03 - on the TNF thread?

 

[ZFire]

Wow 250 mg? That's a lot. Like that's a shit ton of Prednisone. You had that much? Every article I found is 60 mg for a two week course and that's the dose I've taken 3 times this year. It definitely helps me. I've never gone above 60 mg a day. 40 mg a day I did too and it's a comfortable dose. Any more than 60 mg makes me too anxious.

I'm curious, what did steroids actually do to help you? I'm assuming it's hearing loss related because other than that I see no reason why one should take it. Most people here will say it helps reduce tinnitus volume, but that's only temporary once tapering begins. So what's the point of taking it in the first place if the baseline tinnitus is going to creep back up again. Seems like a complete waste of time and you put yourself in a vulnerable state. You run the risk of giving yourself extreme levels of anxiety which may affect your Glutamate/GABA levels possibly making your tinnitus/hyperacusis worse.

My experience with steroids was absolutely terrible and made me worse off. Not sure why Prednisone gets championed a lot here. I would only use it if I was deaf all of sudden.

 

[Brian Newman]

I'm curious, what did steroids actually do to help you? I'm assuming it's hearing loss related because other than that I see no reason why one should take it. Most people here will say it helps reduce tinnitus volume, but that's only temporary once tapering begins. So what's the point of taking it in the first place if the baseline tinnitus is going to creep back up again. Seems like a complete waste of time and you put yourself in a vulnerable state. You run the risk of giving yourself extreme levels of anxiety which may affect your Glutamate/GABA levels possibly making your tinnitus/hyperacusis worse.

My experience with steroids was absolutely terrible and made me worse off. Not sure why Prednisone gets championed a lot here. I would only use it if I was deaf all of sudden.

Prednisone helps with my inflammation levels. I can tell you a lot of hyperacusis flare ups are from inflammation. Hyperacusis is partly inflammation for most people too. Prednisone is the fastest and most effective treatment for inflammation. When I'm on Prednisone my hyperacusis goes from catastrophic to moderate, I can live so much better when I'm on it. Then it creeps back up.

It does leave me less inflamed after I get off it so it definitely helps with the pain.

Prednisone is known for anxiety and causing panic attacks but in my opinion I think a lot of people just overthink it. I am extremely sensitive to medication, supplements. First time I took Prednisone, I had anxiety and panic attacks, and insomnia. Next time I took it I kept telling myself to relax and the side affects are in my head. Now if I'm on Prednisone it actually relaxes me and I sleep like a baby when I'm on it.

I think it's worth a try for most people. You never know.

 

[guenguer]

Wow 250 mg? That's a lot. Like that's a shit ton of Prednisone. You had that much? Every article I found is 60 mg for a two week course and that's the dose I've taken 3 times this year. It definitely helps me. I've never gone above 60 mg a day. 40 mg a day I did too and it's a comfortable dose. Any more than 60 mg makes me too anxious.

3x 250 mg are the guidelines in Germany for acute tinnitus and SSNHL. No tapering. Studies showed lower doses don't do much or anything at all in those two cases, higher doses don't increase the benefit.

So, at least here, that's standard procedure

You got the part where I said I had 5x 1000 mg?

 

[ZFire]

Prednisone helps with my inflammation levels. I can tell you a lot of hyperacusis flare ups are from inflammation. Hyperacusis is partly inflammation for most people too. Prednisone is the fastest and most effective treatment for inflammation. When I'm on Prednisone my hyperacusis goes from catastrophic to moderate, I can live so much better when I'm on it. Then it creeps back up.

It does leave me less inflamed after I get off it so it definitely helps with the pain.

Prednisone is known for anxiety and causing panic attacks but in my opinion I think a lot of people just overthink it. I am extremely sensitive to medication, supplements. First time I took Prednisone, I had anxiety and panic attacks, and insomnia. Next time I took it I kept telling myself to relax and the side affects are in my head. Now if I'm on Prednisone it actually relaxes me and I sleep like a baby when I'm on it.

I think it's worth a try for most people. You never know.

So you would need to be on Prednisone indefinitely for it to actually work permanently? Is that a viable option for you? It sounds like a 2 week course or whatever will not give you any benefit in the long term in regards to your hyperacusis. I think you made thread recently documenting how much worse you have become despite being homebound mostly (very sorry to hear).

My story: uninformed ENT gave me a 6 day taper course of Methylprednisolone. While on it, it changed the character of my tinnitus to a low frequency tone and that's also when distortions started to pop up out of nowhere. Once tapered off, tinnitus and hyperacusis got much more chaotic in the months of June - August 2021. So steroid treatment did nothing to stabilize or mitigate anything really. This was also a low dose too (started at 24 mg), but I'm wondering why it may have worsen me.

I'm still bummed out that you're still suffering with hyperacusis? How's your distortions btw? Mine is on/off and it annoys me a lot.

I'm thinking the extreme levels of anxiety & insomnia that steroids gave me altered my GABA/Glutamate profile and left me in a much more susceptible state. I was dealing with anxiety pre-steroids, so that couldn't have been good also.

 

[Brian Newman]

So you would need to be on Prednisone indefinitely for it to actually work permanently? Is that a viable option for you? It sounds like a 2 week course or whatever will not give you any benefit in the long term in regards to your hyperacusis. I think you made thread recently documenting how much worse you have become despite being homebound mostly (very sorry to hear).

My story: uninformed ENT gave me a 6 day taper course of Methylprednisolone. While on it, it changed the character of my tinnitus to a low frequency tone and that's also when distortions started to pop up out of nowhere. Once tapered off, tinnitus and hyperacusis got much more chaotic in the months of June - August 2021. So steroid treatment did nothing to stabilize or mitigate anything really. This was also a low dose too (started at 24 mg), but I'm wondering why it may have worsen me.

I'm still bummed out that you're still suffering with hyperacusis? How's your distortions btw? Mine is on/off and it annoys me a lot.

I'm thinking the extreme levels of anxiety & insomnia that steroids gave me altered my GABA/Glutamate profile and left me in a much more susceptible state. I was dealing with anxiety pre-steroids, so that couldn't have been good also.

I thought about staying on Prednisone. I'm considering it. I also have a possible perilymph fistula, that could be responsible for the distortions in my right ear and all the other stuff except for the pain in my other ear. I got a blood patch Thursday. So I'm hoping things improve. The fistula was causing hyperacusis in both ears and I think the car accident damaged the nerves in my left ear, since the fistula was messing with CSF and pressure and all sorts of shit. I think it was pissing of the ear more and keeping it from healing.

Since my last report I had a horrible worsening in December from nasal steroids, and saline nasal spray. I don't know how but it made the pain horrible. I've been on a low histamine diet which does seem like it's helping. I'm doing a little better now but I still can't leave the house during the day and I only leave for night walks. Not sure how I managed 4 hours of driving to get the blood patch. I thought I was going to die and I was actually fine. The worst pain I got was from a dude with a 1990s flip phone on full ring volume.

I might have to go back and get a few more blood patch injections. But I do feel a little better from them. Last night I had no pain for 5 hours. And today I was pain free until jets kept flying over my house. I'm hoping the trend will stay up if I'm really careful.

 

[Brian Newman]

You got the part where I said I had 5x 1000 mg?

1000 mg a day? And yeah I think it's worth a try. It did cause the tinnitus in my left ear actually which fucked. It went away after a month, then a car accident made it permanent. Yeah Prednisone is not that bad. There is much worse out there. I think people overthink it reading all the horror stories for sure. But wow I never know that much was given out. Maybe for extreme allergic reactions from IV but that's insane.

 

[IntotheBlue03]

Hi @Uklawyer,

Absolutely. I'm not sure how to link to my original thread but this is my update during my high dose Prednisone course - I will be following a high anti-inflammatory supplement protocol following this:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/632299

 

[Roosevelt DuPree]

I ended up trying the Prednisone - I cautiously began with 20 mg and, even with that initial dose, did not dig the way it made me feel (anxious, panicky, with tinnitus insanely loud), so I immediately discontinued it. (So much subjectivity in terms of what works for people - we're all different, it turns out.) Mercifully, tinnitus & hyperacusis settled down greatly after about 24 hours after discontinuing it.

My thought is to continue with Turmeric, NAC, Quercetin, Glutathione, & Melatonin (for good rest) and see if I can reduce inflammation and maybe move the needle on my tinnitus & hyperacusis that way.

For me right now, it's the hyperacusis that is most prominent and invasive. I love listening to music and am going through withdrawal, not being able to play my favorites - Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Vince Staples, De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, Outkast, Otis Redding, Run The Jewels, Wu Tang Clan, John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, Cat Power, Neko Case, etc. etc. etc... Maybe I can listen to some tunes through my earmuffs...

 

[DebInAustralia]

Hey @DebInAustralia.

Curious where you read about Quercetin being ototoxic? I've been taking it + Bromelain for about a year prior to my chronic onset of tinnitus (that's been intermittent for 5 years).

However, and I'll update this in my original thread, 2-3 days of high dose Prednisone took my 9/10 central tinnitus to a 2/10, after 5 weeks of no relief. Unfortunately I feel now that I'm tapering off that's starting to increase but I'm interested in doubling up on anti-inflammatories to see what happens.

What was interesting is I did labwork both for my CRP and TNF-a and they were both very low/within normal limits (CRP was high during tinnitus onset) but it's clear to me I must still have an inflammatory issue after responding to high dose Prednisone so well.

After this course I will double up and document my original thread.

Hi again,

I'm sorry for the delay. Only just noticed your post.

I tried to find the original link (I read about it on here in the Quercetin threads i think), but I can't find it.

The study focused on applying Quercetin directly to hair cells of zebra fish in vivo. I don't know how that translates to humans.

Like you, I was taking Quercetin for some time, even in high doses at one point for post concussion syndrome. There are many studies as you are probably aware, linking Quercetin to otoprotective qualities.

I have stopped taking it anyway. Frustrating really though, because of its potential for otoprotection and KV channel modulation.

Whilst I have also ordered more blood work for TNF-alpha, remember this is not reflective of CNS levels.

Just a thought. I have Lyme disease. if you have immune suppression, you possibly won't be able to mount an immune response. This explains why many with this illness do not display usual signs of immunity such as fever, raised WBC, CRP, ESR etc...

 

[IntotheBlue03]

Hi @DebInAustralia, no worries, thank you kindly as I had also been taking Quercetin in high doses for at least a year. I still had the tinnitus on and off for 5 years though so while I am definitely encouraged to stop taking it, now I'm not so sure it was a cause.

I have quite a bit to learn, but I didn't realize that TNF-a in blood serum wasn't the same as CNS levels. I will have to look into that.

I'm also late in responding to a few posts but interestingly enough I had also been taking progesterone for an imbalance for a couple of years. Curious how the LDN will affect me.

What's always rang true for me is the symptoms of progressive spinal injuries without trauma. So my new rheumatologist suspects inflammatory arthritis which also makes sense because my CRP, no matter what, had always been consistently high despite massive health changes I have made. I'm hoping the LDN can help with that and then I can report back regarding any changes in tinnitus.

I know I'm a broken record at this point but, with your vast knowledge and all the other seniors here, if anyone can recommend the "safest" medication they know of for anxiety, that would be great. I am disregarding the Topiramate my PCP prescribed and now closer to committing to the Nortriptyline as I am very much in crisis/fight or flight response almost constantly. My goal at this point is to control my reaction as much as possible as opposed to the tinnitus as I am continuing to decline physically and mentally otherwise.

I am also meeting with a TRT audiologist tomorrow.

Thank you as always!

 

[DebInAustralia]

Hi @DebInAustralia, no worries, thank you kindly as I had also been taking Quercetin in high doses for at least a year. I still had the tinnitus on and off for 5 years though so while I am definitely encouraged to stop taking it, now I'm not so sure it was a cause.

I have quite a bit to learn, but I didn't realize that TNF-a in blood serum wasn't the same as CNS levels. I will have to look into that.

I'm also late in responding to a few posts but interestingly enough I had also been taking progesterone for an imbalance for a couple of years. Curious how the LDN will affect me.

What's always rang true for me is the symptoms of progressive spinal injuries without trauma. So my new rheumatologist suspects inflammatory arthritis which also makes sense because my CRP, no matter what, had always been consistently high despite massive health changes I have made. I'm hoping the LDN can help with that and then I can report back regarding any changes in tinnitus.

I know I'm a broken record at this point but, with your vast knowledge and all the other seniors here, if anyone can recommend the "safest" medication they know of for anxiety, that would be great. I am disregarding the Topiramate my PCP prescribed and now closer to committing to the Nortriptyline as I am very much in crisis/fight or flight response almost constantly. My goal at this point is to control my reaction as much as possible as opposed to the tinnitus as I am continuing to decline physically and mentally otherwise.

I am also meeting with a TRT audiologist tomorrow.

Thank you as always!

Did you stop taking Quercetin?

 

[StoneInFocus]

@IntotheBlue03, are you still struggling with pain hyperacusis? Did the Quercetin help with it?

 

[StoneInFocus]

The paper 'The ubiquitous flavonoid quercetin is an atypical KCNQ potassium channel activator', published in 2020 reads:

"Quercetin potentiated KCNQ1/KCNE1, KCNQ2/3 and KCNQ4 currents but, unusually, not KCNQ5. Strikingly, quercetin augmented both activation and inactivation of KCNQ1, via a unique KCNQ activation mechanism involving sites atop the voltage sensor and in the pore. The findings uncover a novel potential molecular basis for therapeutic effects of quercetin-rich foods and a new chemical space for atypical modes of KCNQ channel modulation" (Redford & Abbott).​

I have no knowledge on molecular biology, but I wonder how the modulation of KNCQ channels by Quercetin compares to that done by Retigabine?

@Roosevelt DuPree, you recently mentioned your hyperacusis & tinnitus getting better before a setback. Do you think Quercetin played a role in this?