Psychopharmaceuticals

@Jiri Take a look into my comment about low sodium diet. I spoke with a colleague today that said, it's possible, all these symptoms of T during withdrawal are basically a result of the bodies inability to properly regulate your vestibular system. This would be especially indicated in those people whose T resolved with benzos.
 
@kelpiemsp Roger that. My problem is that I'm losing hope in making recovery. In the beginning it was just head/neck injury (Judo), & acu trauma for me. Ok, there was UoM S. Shore's study and now the UoMinessota study that can bring relieve to those with somatic t. I was being somewhat optimistic that maybe I'll be lucky enough and get to hear silence once again. Back then I didn't have to be concerned with ototoxicity or neurotoxicity which could possibly worsen my tinnitus. The psychiatrist I used to see made me start withdraw simultaneously from both an antidepressant and benzo. She didn't really seem to care + her dubious approach, ethics etc. I quit seeing her.

Now I'm literally 'supervising' myself in coming off all the drugs I'm on using the manuals I attached here. Well, needless to say my GP isn't too happy about it but she cannnot supervise. We're looking for a different psych. So yea, I'm a bit of a downer now (mood swings, feelings of hopelesness.. starting to kick in). You get the picture. I need hope.
 
@kelpiemsp Roger that. My problem is that I'm losing hope in making recovery. In the beginning it was just head/neck injury (Judo), & acu trauma for me. Ok, there was UoM S. Shore's study and now the UoMinessota study that can bring relieve to those with somatic t. I was being somewhat optimistic that maybe I'll be lucky enough and get to hear silence once again. The psychiatrist I used to see made me start withdraw simultaneously from both an antidepressant and benzo. She didn't really seem to care + her dubious approach, ethics etc. I quit seeing her.

Now I'm literally 'supervising' myself in coming off all the drugs I'm on using the manuals I attached here. Well, needless to say my GP isn't too happy about it but she cannnot supervise. We're looking for a different psych. So yea, I'm a bit of a downer now (mood swings, feelings of hopelesness.. starting to kick in). You get the picture. I need hope.

I hope it works out well for you! I have had T my whole life. I can remember the sound even as a young child tormenting me when I would attempt to sleep. I lived my life not knowing about the effects of sound on T. I raced cars, would shoot pistols while wearing no ear protection, use chainsaws etc. I remember a friend shooting a pistol next to my head, just so I would have T. :( some kind of friend. But, it never bothered me then. It would come and go, and I wouldn't bat an eye about it. I would go years without noticing it. After some life events I started Benzos and anti depressants in 2010. I quit anti depressants after a slow taper in 2016 and am finishing up benzos in the next few weeks. So I understand what w/d are like.

When you close your eyes, do you see pitch black? I don't, I never have. It used to bother me terribly. I used to think, I will never get to see darkness again. Eventually, it doesn't bother you, and it isn't a big deal. I don't think I will ever hear silence again, but eh, that won't stop me from trying. By the way, I am in the UofMinnesota trial, and it is very exciting indeed.
 
I don't think I will ever hear silence again
I think I speak for the whole community here when I say, we keep our fingers crossed here to the max. for ya that you WILL hear silence again. You're like a pioneer (hero in a sense) who could very well restore faith for so many of us.

I'm very sorry to hear about your life struggles btw. If only I knew my t. & h. couldn't get any worse, perhaps then I would be able to get used to the sound too. I was watching playing kids basketball on the playground near school tday, while waiting for my gran finishing her rehab. *sigh* I'm 31 and my ears wouldn't allow me to go even near that field.

I've said it before but I'll say it again, I trust in facts and evidence. I hope this thread will eventually conclude that psych. drugs post-withdrawal symptoms pose min. risks in worsening of tinnitus (contrary to what I've learned so far).
 
@Jiri
Hi, I took Clonazepam .5 to 1mg 6-7 times over three weeks and then one week continuously so about a month overall. I've been tapering very slowly now for almost one month. I'm not sure if I needed to do that or not. My psychiatrist would have had me taper much more quickly. I'm doing this on my own. I'm down to about .25 a day now and hope to finish in about a week or so.

I don't know if I'm doing it right or not and I am Concerned about worsening of T and H.

Do you think that will happen given the relative short amount of time I used them? I have been tapering almost as long as I've used them. Is periodic use and one week continuous use for a month considered short term? I know you are very knowledgeable about this.
Thanks.
Tracy
 
Hello @TracyJS 1st just one thing - I'm not very knowledgeable about this. Right now I wish I were, but I'm not. I read manuals, studies, I ask a lot & watch videos about the stuff. Anyone can do that. It's not making you an expert.

2nd; e.g. in the clonazepam (Rivotril) info leaflet for consumers is noted that you can start withdrawing by decreasing your dose 0.25 mg every 3 days - even if you were taking the drug for 6 months (one Dr confirmed that as correct). In my opinion, it is not. In this case scenario you should allow several months for the whole process: it usually takes of the order of six months and can occasionally take up to a year, withdrawing steadily in very small steps of dosage.

It is usually best not to make changes in other medications simultaneously with a benzo withdrawal taper (not least because that makes it harder to interpret any changes in symptoms). I don't know your medical history. It would be down to your doctor to decide on how your other medication should fit around this.

In the video, Prof. Ashton mentions that benzodiazepines should not be taken continuously for longer than 2 - 4 weeks maximum. That's good news for you and if you've been tapering very slowly over the next month - even better, imo.

I think you should be fine. Though, that is just my opinion. I have no medical qualifications myself.

P.S.: Check out The Icarus Project guide on the 1st page of this thread for more info.
 
Last edited:
I have to say my T went back down for today to baseline... So thank god. I still have a long taper to go so Im not out of the woods yet but I made a pretty big cut on my taper before I got that spike and took a pretty big hit from it mentally also. At least I know now that it can go back down to baseline so that makes me very happy. Shitty benzo's after this is all done no more pills for me NEVER.
 
I have to say my T went back down for today to baseline... So thank god. I still have a long taper to go so Im not out of the woods yet but I made a pretty big cut on my taper before I got that spike and took a pretty big hit from it mentally also. At least I know now that it can go back down to baseline so that makes me very happy. Shitty benzo's after this is all done no more pills for me NEVER.

As they say in w/d "enjoy the window, ride the wave"
 
I remember a friend shooting a pistol next to my head, just so I would have T. :( some kind of friend.
Oh btw, what?? What a vile piece of dirt anyone that does that is.. a ""friend""? I hope he looked like a couple of golf club whacks to his face after. Outrageous.
 
@Mystery Reader
Yo, how's it going? Thanks for checking in.

My taper is going, I'd say ok atm? Ups and downs. I still don't have a new psychiatrist so I have no supervision, really. I'm just happy I found a willing Pharm.D to help me with my w/d management.

Also, you can find attached all the drugs I was given and now I'm just trying to rid myself of these last two: Rivotril (clonazepam) and Pregabalin (Lyrica). The 2 hardest ones to come off. Fingers crossed.

I'm gonna have some updates soon so stay tuned :)
 

Attachments

  • Meds_schedule.jpg
    Meds_schedule.jpg
    327.6 KB · Views: 41
@Jiri
Glad to know you feel it's going okay, on the whole. I've been thinking about you as you work through this, and just wanted to check in and find out how you're doing. I'll keep a lookout for your updates!

Mystery Reader
 
Hey guys, just a little update. I stopped taking my antidepressant about tweeks ago. The day before yesterday I lowered my dose of Clonazepam again by another 0.25 mg and... it's torture now. I cannot tell anymore if my terrible tinnitus spikes are because of the old noise injury, the drugs, some loud sound that made my t. spike, stress or a combination of it all. It is a very loud hissing sound in my head, like a nonstop migrane you can't stop plus tinnitus.

In all honesty, I am not sure if I'll be strong enough to push through. I feel like 'death closes all' would be my salvation now. For anyone who's reading this. Please, be super careful with psych. medication and find a medical doctor who really understands the problem, because this is very, very bad :( There is a new term to remember, excitotoxicity.
 
Something a little off topic. If you are considering to support a good cause, then please, visit this thread: Let's Support Tinnitus Talk! and make a small donation. More info in the intro post. We're close to reaching 50 donators target.

Also, something worth mentioning, in my opinion, is: Operation Regrow (HRP) June 19 is the deadline and your donation will be matched by an anonymous donor. The research team and what they're doing looks very promising.

Thank you.
 
I'm new so late to the discussion. I'm not a doctor nor have I done much research on psych drugs but I can offer my story, to include long term use of benzodiazepines.

My tinnitus has been with me for almost 50 years. I've tried my best to cope but started losing the battle about 15 years ago. I was prescribed Lorazapam (Activan), not for the tinnitus but to help me mentally cope. It was great. Yes, the screaming in my head was still there but I almost didn't care and I certainly didn't remember much. Then I hit the wall at the maximum dose where it no longer worked and then went through benzo hell trying to taper down.

It took a while and truth be known, I'm surprised I'm alive. One would think that would scare me straight but my tinnitus rules my life so much that, given the choice, I'd rather deal with the benzo than deal with the tinnitus. Now, please understand everyone, I'm not advocating benzos nor do I believe it's the right thing for others to do, it's just that I was that desperate.

I knew I'd hit the wall again so I asked to be switched to a longer half-life benzo....Clonazapam and this time I learned to PRN when I felt I was approaching the deep end and I also tapered every other week. It was, and continues to be, difficult but I've managed to split the difference between the drug allowing me a little bit of relief and not hitting the wall. I do intend to ask the doctor to switch me back to Lorazepam because it's easier to cycle with a shorter half-life.

So, herein lies the dilemma. Yes, benzodiazepines are dangerous, not really designed for long term use, and a real bitch when one hits the wall. I would never want to wish benzo hell (withdrawals) on anyone no more than I'd wish debilitating tinnitus on anyone. I do take 40mg of Propranolol daily which helps control the physical tremors when my anxieties associated with the tinnitus occurs but that drug is non-addictive and works for me.

I guess that's the point of my post. We are all different and our tinnitus affects our quality of life differently. What works for one may destroy another. I'm fortunate I found a balance and I hope others find theirs. Take care all.

Bobby
 
@Mystery Reader
Hey man, that's really nice of you. Well, things.. was doing better yesterday than I'm doing today. I'm on an emotional roller-coaster with everything that's going on. Benzo w/d, tinnitus and hyperacusis. I was doing better before that ENT visit where they were throwing metal instruments around me. Today I had a piercing T in my head so felt like s***

I hope a cure comes out soon. I need something to cling to. I was thinking today how can I support others on here when I can't even support myself.. does it make sense? I hope you're doing ok Mystery R. Thanks for checking in.

@BobbyH
Hey Bobby, welcome to the board.

50 years with this b*tch? You're a freaking hero, man. I've got no idea where you got all the strength to push on and not give up? Especially after going later through the benzo hell withdrawal. I don't really know what to say. You had tinnitus for 35 years and then what happened that you started to lose the battle?

Sounds like you're a lot more knowledgeable about all this stuff than I am. I can share with you my taper plan with clonazepam. I just want to rid my body of all these chemicals and then have the benzo at hand when I hit the wall or smth and need some immediate relief. I've been on it for 5 months (starting on 6 mgs) and think it might take the order of another 5 to 6 months to get off of it, withdrawing steadily.

Make sure you check out Research News section on this forum. There's this one study being carried out by Uni of Minnesota (University of Minnesota Tinnitus Research with Acoustic and Body Stimulation) and its op @kelpiemsp have some good things to say about it. There lies our hope. I hope.

In any case, my hat goes off to you.
 


Thank you for your kind thoughts; they mean a lot to me.

My tinnitus started during my war service from acoustical trauma. I was always aware of it but no one ever told me anything other than "to just live with it." At night I'd simply leave the TV set on all night in my bedroom, drink, or both. At about 35 years the tinnitus began getting louder, so much so that I couldn't pass the hearing test to keep the medical certificate required for my job. It wasn't that my hearing was getting worse, it was the tinnitus was getting louder and I couldn't hear over it.

I know the literature says that, generally speaking, tinnitus does NOT get louder or worse with age but mine did. So I went to an ENT to rule out any physical issues like a brain tumor or other physical damage. At the time, I wasn't even on any meds nor did I do drugs so the initial diagnosis of tinnitus from acoustical trauma continued and I went to an audiologist for hearing aids because the ENT believed it would help.

Now....is it getting worse because the brain is making the sound louder for me or is it because I've lived with it so long that the sound is psychologically running my life? I don't know but my perception is that it became bad enough for me to literally lose my mind. I actually was looking for a doctor to make me deaf in the mistaken belief that if I was deaf the tinnitus would go away. Not true they told me. I remember at one point considering shoving an ice pick in my ears to make it stop realizing full well the ultimate consequence of that action. Every waking moment was like being trapped in a small room with the smoke alarm going off and not being able to turn off the alarm nor leave the room. I was going crazy and knew it.

Finally, a doctor and a psychologist understood what was happening to me and experimented with meds till they found a combination, to include Lorazepam and Propranolol, to help me cope and survive. To answer your question on what happened that I lost the battle was that the sound got louder. As to why, I don't know and no one has been able to give me a reason. I do have another appointment with an ENT set up by my audiologist to see if the ENT can see a cause for the increase and/or rule out a physical reason. The audiologist is also changing my hearing aid to a new type called "notch therapy", my doctor is going to change my psych meds to see if that will help, and my psychologist is working on helping me get out of this hole I'm in.

I'll read the link you suggested and, again, I appreciate your caring.

Bobby
 
Hi @BobbyH

So you are a war veteran. You deserve the best treatment options there are and free of charge ofc.
Now....is it getting worse because the brain is making the sound louder for me or is it because I've lived with it so long that the sound is psychologically running my life?
May be you also suffer from a Posttraumatic Stress Disorder or you have had some other health (changes in blood pressure e.g., as you mentioned the drug Propranolol. Google search told me it is an oral medication that's used to treat high blood pressure and other conditions) or stress related issues that made your tinnitus ramp up after such a long time? A tough question. It could also be an age related problem. I don't really have an answer. Just wild guesses.
I actually was looking for a doctor to make me deaf in the mistaken belief that if I was deaf the tinnitus would go away. Not true they told me.
That is correct I think. The t sound is generated in the brain and cutting your auditory nerve would certainly make you deaf in that ear but might not necessarily rid you of the noise. In my literature these are the stages where sound is processed and if there's something wrong in any of them it could result in the development of t increase: cochlea → formatio reticularis (hirnstamm → mesencephalon → talamus → cortex) → the lymbic system.

Your story is touching and I feel so sorry for you. Please, try to hold out hope. Like I mentioned before there are some promising studies carried out right now. We might have something to alleviate tinnitus symptom soon. Hope. Keep an eye on the Research Section on here and if you need emotional support or advice we're here to help.

It is good that you are being proactive about your situation, and hopefully the doctors and specialists you are seeing will be able to provide more insight into what lead to your t. increase and help you.

It might also be a good idea to see an orthopedist or physiotherapist, and have a look at your cervical spine. There are many nerves that may get pinched and result in a t increase, blockages between vertebrae or degenerative disc diseases etc. Possibly ask @Greg Sacramento he knows tons about it.

I wish you the best!

Jiri
 
@BobbyH Hello Bobby, some things that I need to focus on more as I get older.
1. Joint and muscle care - light exercise - walking to increase circulation, very simple posture exercises
2. Dehydration - drink water
3. Control salt and sugar
4. A balanced diet
5. Vitamins - small amounts for oxygen
6. Magnesium chelate for noise exposure instead of use of prednisone
At least not using prednisone long term for a noise exposure
Prednisone can weaken bones and cause dental problems, especially for older people and that can cause more infection
7. Very light gentle massage and breathing exercise

The above will help with both physical and emotional stress, but also to control any bacteria
and toxins developing in mouth, affecting bones and muscles.
Toxins, bacteria and dehydration is often what causes T increase as we get older besides loud noise and not slow careful withdrawal after discontinuation of a drug. I'm certainly not a health expect, but I do know that toxins and bacteria and lack of water can lead to more infections and problems as we get older.

Just drinking water is so important.
 
Update. Today is the last day of my psycho drugs withdrawal - I'm going to take the last pill of Pregabalin and that's it. The withdrawal itself was really a traumatic experience. It's not easy to forgive the person who shouted in my r. ear and propably gave me the constant "eeeeee" tone but to forgive the medical "professionals" (psychiatrists) who introduced to my body all this rat poison (4 different drugs) whilst reassuring me that it won't have any negative impact on my tinnitus (that was literally the one and only thing I kept asking them about) that's a completely different story. They didn't even bother to do any follow-up after I was realeased from the hospital back in December 2017. For the next couple of months I was under the "care" of an ambulatory psychiatrist who again, did a terrible job with the drugs w/d management according to the doctor who tries to help me now. I don't know if any healing is really possible when your body is loaded with so many chemicals? To cut this short, in this year I developed 2 - 3 new sounds that come and go, sometimes (like yesterday) are really very intrusive to the point I cannot sleep and am in a lot of pain and emotional distress. I loath drugs and wish it was explained to me clearly beforehand what psych. drugs can do to your body and their possible side effects. When I called a clinical pharmacist a couple weeks ago, I was told that at this stage nobody can really pinpoint the exact cause behind these tinnitus fluctuations. We are told that in order to get rid of tinnitus one must eliminate the underlying cause first. Back in fall 2017 it was either a neck injury, acoustic trauma or a combination of both. Now add drugs to the equation and it is next to impossible to know. It is something that cannot be measured and the frustration stemming from this discovery gets overwhelming quickly.
 
Now add drugs to the equation
An acupuncturist I see told me that he's had the most success with patients whose tinnitus began with an ototoxic drug. He works on clearing out the liver and kidney meridians, which allows the body to expel these drugs, AND their residual vibrations. -- It sounds like you've been through the wringer. Congratulations on finishing up your drug withdrawals. I hope you continue to give your neck as much support as you can, like upper cervical chiropractic, physical therapy, or whatever might work well for you. -- All the Best!
 
An acupuncturist I see told me that he's had the most success with patients whose tinnitus began with an ototoxic drug. He works on clearing out the liver and kidney meridians, which allows the body to expel these drugs, AND their residual vibrations. -- It sounds like you've been through the wringer. Congratulations on finishing up your drug withdrawals. I hope you continue to give your neck as much support as you can, like upper cervical chiropractic, physical therapy, or whatever might work well for you. -- All the Best!
Sorry for the late response, I was busy. Yes, wringer is the right way to put it. It makes me sad and angry at the same time that it's legally ok here to give suffering people a coctail of addictive drugs and then just not help them with the w/d. You're not fully there when high on psych. meds so making wise decisions is.. difficult? Not to mention the t. Your driving license gets suspended the moment you leave the hospital but that's far from the worst. There's just too many variables at this point. I wish there was a way to realistically measure what went wrong where and then correct it. For me it just feels like I'm shooting from the hip now.

I'll probably give herbs a try and see if I can get over it and just let go some day. Anyway, thanks for the kind wishes @Lane I see your tinnitus was caused by ototoxic meds. I hope it got better for you?

See attached a nice, and comprehensive review of 'Pharmacological drugs inducing ototoxicity, vestibular symptoms and tinnitus: a reasoned and updated guide.'

Cheers,
Jiri
 

Attachments

  • Pharmacological_drugs_inducing_ototoxicity_vestibular_symptoms_and_tinnitus.pdf
    183.8 KB · Views: 32
Last edited:
There is so much mis information. Benzos are not otoxic. That's why you don't see real research ever talking about it. A few flyers and one professor spouting off about it is hardly hard evidence. We all know that benzo withdrawal makes you stressed and that leads to a spike. But that is the absolute extent of it.
Go to BenzoBuddies and you will see a ton of people with no prior tinnitus who developed it after withdrawing or quitting. I'm one of them.
 

Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!

Register

Register on Tinnitus Talk for free!

Register Now