Quieten — App by Julian Cowan Hill — Scam? Reviews?
- Thread starter ajc
- Start date
Member
- Jun 18, 2019
- 139
- Tinnitus Since
- 2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Deafening applause (ppl clap loudly after reading my posts)
I am pleased that you do not discount JCH critiques because I am one of them. His charges are exorbitant to say the least. In addition to this, he knows nothing about noise induced tinnitus or hyperacusis, since his tinnitus was caused by anxiety and stress. Therefore, I don't think anyone with NIT should be seeking his help.
Michael
Liam Boehm and Julian Cowan Hill are a step below Ryan Shelton and Daniel Toh because they are charging people for advice and not even selling anything.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
*shrug* I've said everything I have to say. I basically like the guy, but not nearly enough to defend him against much criticism, especially not when it's circuitous. If the upshot of this thread is that he gets thirty bucks from me and a bunch of nasty reviews from y'all, so be it.
- Jun 18, 2019
- 139
- Tinnitus Since
- 2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Deafening applause (ppl clap loudly after reading my posts)
For the less than the cost of a cab ride from downtown Dublin to Neuromod HQ, one can have full premium access to the KING of "calming down your central nervous system" in your pocket!
- Apr 12, 2019
- 29
- Tinnitus Since
- 12/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Ear wax removal with suction by ENT
JCH was, in retrospect, one of the reasons I actually started on the path to habituation/getting on with my life. This app thing, sound like a scam. I wouldn't do it or recommend it to anyone. But he did help me with the youtube videos, and I didn't spend a cent.
Same feeling here. JCH was the first link I found in relation to TRT principles, and though I only watched one of his video's, it helped me in gaining faith that I could face this condition.
The one thing I have against him, is that he seems to surround himself with an attitude of "every case of T can be cured with this approach". And that is something I strongly disagree with. The approach is useful for habituation and might even cure some psychological cases, but T has way too many (physical) causes to apply this one mental fix to. Before I believe that, I'd like him to paste a static tone generator to his ear and learn himself to not hear that sound anymore. And since there is no objective way yet to proof that he can't hear it, I suppose I'll never believe in a generic cure like this for T...
Every case of T includes sound, but every case has its own cause and should be treated as such.
All of you are talking about habituation and TRT and the like.
His app is called QUITEN, the name alone insinuates that he can help you actually quiet your tinnitus with his techniques but then when you get into the meat it is all habituation related.
Habituation DOES NOT EQUAL a reduction in volume. I have tinnitus that does in fact reduce in volume if I do certain things and it is has nothing to do with habituation. Stop, just please stop, convoluting the vocabulary terms relating to this disease.
His app is called QUITEN, the name alone insinuates that he can help you actually quiet your tinnitus with his techniques but then when you get into the meat it is all habituation related.
Habituation DOES NOT EQUAL a reduction in volume. I have tinnitus that does in fact reduce in volume if I do certain things and it is has nothing to do with habituation. Stop, just please stop, convoluting the vocabulary terms relating to this disease.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,596
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
That's true regarding the members here. That is a very low number compared to the number of worldwide sufferers. And yes the benefactors among them is a very small percentage, which is unfortunate. The number of viewers of this forum is probably 10 times that high though I would guess. I was thinking of the approximate 2 million sufferers in the US that have debilitating tinnitus and not even counting the worldwide severe cases. If 5% of them paid for the the $3 app subscription, that would equal about 100,000. No one really knows how many people purchase his subscription except JCH.
I would prefer to keep Dr. Shemesh, Dr. Wilden, and Dr. Shim out of this thread because they do not have any significant volume on YouTube exposure/advertising, if any, like Liam Boehm and JCH. Also this thread was started by @ajc in reference to JCH.
People are using phrases like:
Quiet your tinnitus.
Recover from tinnitus.
Get better from tinnitus.
Beat tinnitus.
Help tinnitus.
Whenever people use words like this to describe habituation, they are being dishonest. Habituation does NOT help tinnitus, it helps the distress tinnitus causes, for some people.
Tinnitus is not the same thing as the stress and depression it causes. Tinnitus is phantom noises in the ears and it is extremely dishonest to mix up the terms associated with it.
For example:
You would never set up a Youtube channel with videos saying you can help with cancer when in reality you were only offering advice on how to make peace with death.
Quiet your tinnitus.
Recover from tinnitus.
Get better from tinnitus.
Beat tinnitus.
Help tinnitus.
Whenever people use words like this to describe habituation, they are being dishonest. Habituation does NOT help tinnitus, it helps the distress tinnitus causes, for some people.
Tinnitus is not the same thing as the stress and depression it causes. Tinnitus is phantom noises in the ears and it is extremely dishonest to mix up the terms associated with it.
For example:
You would never set up a Youtube channel with videos saying you can help with cancer when in reality you were only offering advice on how to make peace with death.
- Apr 30, 2018
- 2,507
- Tinnitus Since
- 02/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Single 25 mg dose of (anticholinergic) drug Promethazine
@Ed209 -- Same here. Thanks for your posts here Ed. I think they're spot on. -- I would hope JA will consider your comment about him taking things so personal.
@linearb -- Me too!
I'm full of 'em myself! Unscientific ideas that is.
My own orientation is that overreliance on scientific thinking to make informed decisions unnecessarily restricts us from more fully understanding some of the complexities of life. Nothing wrong with being head oriented, but I believe it can sometimes hold us back from being more heart oriented. In the grand scheme of things, the latter seems hugely more important to me.Hi @lcj -- Great post! I was hoping somebody(s) would come along and begin to break up the McCarthy-like gratuitous bashing of somebody who seems like a genuinely good person to me. So what's the big deal if he has ideas that are not in line with our own way of thinking? -- Like I said earlier, I'm full of them.
Those who spend any amount of money on what JCH has to offer knows full well from watching his YouTube videos what to expect. I'm fortunate enough to get some cranial sacral work regularly as part of my regular physical therapy, and can say it has most certainly at times softened my tinnitus, though not permanently. But I can see where it might work more permanently with somebody else. Who cares whether or not it's "scientific", as long as it works for some?
As to why JCH's methods work for some, @Ed209's informative post at the following link provides a highly plausible explanation. The post gives some insight on how the brain processes tinnitus, and why some people are able to deal with it better than others. Especially after reading this, I can easily see how many people would be helped by some of the methods JCH advocates.
People with tinnitus who are less bothered by their symptoms use different brain regions when processing emotional information, new research indicates.
- Jun 18, 2019
- 139
- Tinnitus Since
- 2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Deafening applause (ppl clap loudly after reading my posts)
While perhaps for some efficacious to some extent, the psuedo-psychological approach extolled by JCH is pure unscientific pablum. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a bounty of posts pertaining to how its probable that if you wear ear plugs to the cinema you'll still damage your ears "because of the bone conduction" and that's just not to mention my analysis of several concrete data-sets concerning a certain sound that really might just knock out your tinnitus to make.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,596
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
Of course he is nice and friendly, all sales people are. It's all about money. I just think it's greedy to be selling app subscriptions is all. I did buy a Kindle book of his in the past. No long term help from that although it was an interesting read.
Maybe he makes very little from his app IDK? I was not even aware of it until someone brought it up. I do know that his Skype sessions are very expensive. I doubt if there is much long term benefit from those. They just fatten his wallet is all.
Among this community I believe it is fully known and understood that there is currently no cure for tinnitus, nor even any treatment capable of reducing the noise.
As others have said before, all we have access to at the moment is a number of therapeutic methods and practices which may or may not help us to better cope with our stressful lives.
Julian Cowan Hill has no answer outside of these parameters.
I bought one of his books called:
"Tinnitus, from Tyrant to Friend" and have to say that I derived nothing from it.
Several vague promises that achieved nothing at all.
'Practice my techniques and there is every chance that your tinnitus will get much better.'
Quite simply - he has no answers.
My own daily home-grown meditation sessions have proved a much better resource.
As others have said before, all we have access to at the moment is a number of therapeutic methods and practices which may or may not help us to better cope with our stressful lives.
Julian Cowan Hill has no answer outside of these parameters.
I bought one of his books called:
"Tinnitus, from Tyrant to Friend" and have to say that I derived nothing from it.
Several vague promises that achieved nothing at all.
'Practice my techniques and there is every chance that your tinnitus will get much better.'
Quite simply - he has no answers.
My own daily home-grown meditation sessions have proved a much better resource.
Not true. Turmeric and curcumin help me and others tremendously.
Haha.
Duh.
This site has exposure to exactly the same audience. Look at the podcast numbers. A sub can be acquired for as little as $2 and so far only 50 people have seen it as being worthy. That's less than the price of one coffee a month but it's still incredibly hard to get people onboard. His app will be no different and I doubt he'll cover the cost of development. 100,000 is ridiculously high. He's got more chance of winning the euro millions than of that happening.
The reason I mentioned those Drs in this thread is because of the incredible irony. Time and time again I see threads going after so-called scammers and people who are trading unethically, but not once has anyone created a thread warning others against them. I find it staggering. There are many vulnerable and mentally ill people using this site and they'll try anything they can. I feel so sorry for some out there who have handed over thousands to people like Dr Wilden, Dr Shemesh, Dr Shim, stem cell clinics, etc, etc. There's even that Indian Dr who used a predatory journal to publish his results. Who's got the backs of people contemplating these treatments?
Whenever their names are mentioned some will staunchly defend them, but the same people froth at the mouth at even a hint of someone defending Julien or Liam Boehm, for example (I don't agree with their views either). This is what baffles me.
I'm not here to fight internet wars, I just don't want to see people potentially lose their shirt or damage their health. The echo-chamber mentality is very strong here which is probably why contrarian views are hit with personal attacks rather than rebuttals.
Valid point...
The difference is in the title and what they promise. JCH doesnt have Dr. before his name and he doesn't promise a "cure" based on "science". I think you are fighting an important battle but the nature of forum members seems that we are desperate because of our pain and generally lack the higher education in science and medicine to sort through the nuance and complexity. (I am talking Master's and PHDs, not self-appointed armchair scientists like myself). Not to say there aren't plenty of smart folks, like David Case who is an inventor, a few ENTs, a neuro scientist, some biologists and some self-educated very smart people. You can't speak generally or you get nipped at the ankles...
Strange indeed that JCH would be demonised and Dr. Wilden and Dr. Shim and the doctors in India are given crazy amounts of slack despite so many red flags. I myself, desperate, in agony. wanted to go to Korea despite my better judgement. It was actually the price shifting and treatment changes, and a few other important things that ultimately made me pass, even though Dr. Heller himself said to me there is no scientific basis for Dr. Shim's therapy. Heller knows more about regeneration than any member here, he's a genius and has spent his life involved in this work..thus the Heller lab at Stanford.
Recently I have clocked a few newcomers in pain sniffing out stem cells, which really doesn't have any track record for regenerating hair cells in the inner ear or anything in the inner ear and costs around 50 grand US. Member @linearb tried to set someone straight but people are desperate and see what they want to see.
Ed209 you have taken so much flack and personal attacks for basically sighting red flags, dubious and contradictory claims. Your real name was used and you have been called all kinds of names for having a debate.
All the power to you mate, but a battle I don't want to fight. I am not an internet warrior, and would never be part of a forum if I hadn't been struck down with this affliction. Not my bag.
I do like sending people positive vibes and love because that's how I roll. I like the research threads because it gives me hope that one day I may get some hearing back. I have made some friends and really cherish Tinnitus Talk, its members and the staff. We are a community that is international, multi cultural and of all ages. Yeah! Awesome.
I applaud your effort, it's important for folks to see counter perspectives so that they can figure out the truth for themselves and make informed decisions.
Thank you, Daniel. I've always said since I joined Tinnitus Talk that contrarian views are healthy and productive in discovering the truth about something. However, I feel in the last 18 months or so that whenever an opinion is expressed - which isn't part of the popular narrative - you can expect to be verbally abused and/or worse. That's just the way things seem to have gone, unfortunately.
You make a lot of good points. I heard the same opinion from Dr Wehling's clinic as you did from Dr Heller, but I suppose that's all immaterial now. I made my point in this thread just to try and make a few people think more objectively about stuff. No offence was ever intended. I'm tired of all the keyboard battles to be honest; I don't even see the point in most of them.
I'll be honest, I've watched a number of his YouTube videos - all of which are free - and have found them to be broadly helpful. Are they "a cure"? Certainly not. But are they "a scam"? I don't really see how.
The man is essentially claiming that your nervous system is on high alert, and that if you can get it off high alert, your tinnitus signals - which are also electrical - are likely to come down along with it. Are there lots of questions that could be asked here? Yes. Does he have a good scientific hold on the exact mechanisms at work? No. But none of that means there isn't some broad logic to what he's saying, which is essentially just: RELAX. Until an actual cure comes along, this seems like pretty reasonable advice to me.
Not to mention: what exactly does our community hope to achieve by blacklisting every psychologist/therapist who comes up with a new idea for how to help us? If we criticize every attempt that is anything less than a complete cure, how do we expect anyone to want to try to help? I think, as a group, we need to be a little less angry, and a little more open to helping those trying to help us.
The man is essentially claiming that your nervous system is on high alert, and that if you can get it off high alert, your tinnitus signals - which are also electrical - are likely to come down along with it. Are there lots of questions that could be asked here? Yes. Does he have a good scientific hold on the exact mechanisms at work? No. But none of that means there isn't some broad logic to what he's saying, which is essentially just: RELAX. Until an actual cure comes along, this seems like pretty reasonable advice to me.
Not to mention: what exactly does our community hope to achieve by blacklisting every psychologist/therapist who comes up with a new idea for how to help us? If we criticize every attempt that is anything less than a complete cure, how do we expect anyone to want to try to help? I think, as a group, we need to be a little less angry, and a little more open to helping those trying to help us.
Which is nonsense.
Well, if they can't actually help us cure our tinnitus then they need to FUCK RIGHT OFF and stop lying to us like they can.
*Shrug* I guess I'm with @linearb here in believing the world has greater evils in it than this. Indeed, if the biggest damage here is that he nabs a couple bucks from a few people, in return for modest psychological relief, then I'm willing to look the other way.
- Feb 11, 2019
- 801
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headcold/Flu
To Daniel Lion:
I have out of curiousity at least touched upon nearly every one of JCH's 153 videos, and he repeatedly, definitely promised a complete cure to total silence based on his "methods."
In fact, he strongly implies that this has been the case for 800 of his patients, although he cannot produce a single actual individual case who will appear on his behalf.
In one of his recent videos, he waxed with high indignation because he apparently sent a detailed letter to the British ENT Association notifying them of his allegedly colossal, breakthrough results, and he never received a response.
It is clear that they regard him as a useless, pseudoscientific crank who possesses as much verifiable information as would an astrologer.
I would like to thank especially John Adams (and others) for recognizing the fraud that JCH represents.
I could go on for pages detailing all of JCH's demonstrable falsehoods, ignorance of audiology and neurology, stupifyingly banal utterances (such as that drinking a bottle of Vodka a day is not a good idea), snarling defensiveness when the slightest portion of his commentary is questioned, breathtakingly arrogant presumptions that he has the final, definitive answers to every aspect of this condition, his reliance on cowardly, self-serving alibis that anyone's lack of improvement from his methods always by definition connotes a flaw or character defect in that person and never in such methods, etc.
However, I am done with him. He is too much of a charlatan to warrant any more serious attention.
Let's concentrate on the bona fide, legitimate researchers of this condition.
I have out of curiousity at least touched upon nearly every one of JCH's 153 videos, and he repeatedly, definitely promised a complete cure to total silence based on his "methods."
In fact, he strongly implies that this has been the case for 800 of his patients, although he cannot produce a single actual individual case who will appear on his behalf.
In one of his recent videos, he waxed with high indignation because he apparently sent a detailed letter to the British ENT Association notifying them of his allegedly colossal, breakthrough results, and he never received a response.
It is clear that they regard him as a useless, pseudoscientific crank who possesses as much verifiable information as would an astrologer.
I would like to thank especially John Adams (and others) for recognizing the fraud that JCH represents.
I could go on for pages detailing all of JCH's demonstrable falsehoods, ignorance of audiology and neurology, stupifyingly banal utterances (such as that drinking a bottle of Vodka a day is not a good idea), snarling defensiveness when the slightest portion of his commentary is questioned, breathtakingly arrogant presumptions that he has the final, definitive answers to every aspect of this condition, his reliance on cowardly, self-serving alibis that anyone's lack of improvement from his methods always by definition connotes a flaw or character defect in that person and never in such methods, etc.
However, I am done with him. He is too much of a charlatan to warrant any more serious attention.
Let's concentrate on the bona fide, legitimate researchers of this condition.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,596
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
I think he takes in more than a few bucks. He has his Skype sessions at about $80/hour, his YouTube subscribers, his Kindle books, and now his subscription apps. He has potentially quite a money making machine.
- Feb 11, 2019
- 801
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headcold/Flu
To JohnAdams:
This stubborn defense of JCH reminds me of how in 1830 P.T. Barnum presented an Afro-American woman, claiming that she was 161 years old and a former maid for George Washington.
He drew credulous crowds that grossed him $1,500.00 per week (which was a huge sum for that era).
This argument in defense of JCH is not based on (nor can it be changed by) strictly rational considerations, and should be left alone since his appeal is manipulatively emotional.
This stubborn defense of JCH reminds me of how in 1830 P.T. Barnum presented an Afro-American woman, claiming that she was 161 years old and a former maid for George Washington.
He drew credulous crowds that grossed him $1,500.00 per week (which was a huge sum for that era).
This argument in defense of JCH is not based on (nor can it be changed by) strictly rational considerations, and should be left alone since his appeal is manipulatively emotional.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,596
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
You could try a Skype session with him maybe? Only 33 cups of coffee for an hour ($98.55). That is a bargain for his kind of expertise.
First session – £120 for 1.5 hours
Follow up sessions £75 for 1 hour
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