Reactive Tinnitus and Flying on an Airplane

[ploughna]

Is there a difference in terms of hearing damage when listening to a sports car at 80 dB and being on a plane at 80 dB? Why would a sports car cause a permanent spike but airplane cabin noise wouldn't? When I see people using sound meters on a plane on YouTube, sometimes it's reaching close to 90 dB. Is cabin noise less damaging compared to other sounds at similar dB levels due to it being a lower frequency?

I highly doubt a commercial plane is 90 dB in the cabin continuously. If that were the case, all passengers would suffer hearing damage on long flights. Maybe at takeoff and landing?

Regarding car vs. plane, there should be no difference. All I know is my ears are more susceptible to damage, so I now protect them in both scenarios. I had no protection in the car when the permanent damage occurred. Also, that 80 dB number is just an estimate - it could have been higher when revving the engine, driving on rougher pavement, etc.

 

[dan]

When I see people using sound meters on a plane on YouTube, sometimes it's reaching close to 90 dB. Is cabin noise less damaging compared to other sounds at similar dB levels due to it being a lower frequency?

Dude, during takeoff on any plane, the sound easily reaches 90+ dB. You have to endure that for about 40 seconds until the plane gains altitude.

In-Cabin Noise Level of Wide-Body Aircraft — Airbus A380 the Quietest

This information is very important to tinnitus sufferers. All our travel plans revolve around what kind of aircraft to fly.

 

[frischky]

My rule is to try and fly Business Class as much as possible, middle section (if a widebody) on an aisle. Windows are more noisy.

And I also found on many aircraft, to avoid the first row or two... as the fuselage there is narrower, thus getting more of the breaking through the air (rushing) sound.

 

[mrpetrov]

I recently travelled long haul from US West Coast to Australia (including a short connection). A few observations:

- Before flying my audiologist (who also runs a tinnitus management program at her hospital) recommended I wear ANC headphones - which I did (Bose).

- The short haul (1 hour) plane (an Embraer) was significantly louder than the long haul wide bodied planes (short haul next to window was 80+ dB on average with 90 dB peaks during takeoff). This was in row 3, just in front of the propeller.

- Long haul planes (777 both ways) were around 70-75 dB with maybe 80 dB peaks during takeoff. I was in row 3 Business for the long hauls, center aisle.

- During the flights, the ANC headphones did an admirable job of reducing engine noise significantly. I didn't listen to anything else during the flights (i.e. no music or movies), so my tinnitus was fairly noticeable during the flight.

- I used 30NRR foam earplugs for about half the flight when sleeping/trying to sleep without ANC headphones.

- On landing in Australia from the U.S., after the first day where I was jet lagged and the tinnitus was more shrill than usual, I found the tinnitus went back or below baseline - probably helped by the fact that I was busy having fun in Australia, and the noise of the surf was audible inside which, together with the inside A/C and my usual babbling brook iPhone noise, meant I slept as well as I have since onset 3 months ago.

- Coming back, I used the same protection protocols.

- I only landed 36 hours ago and it feels like my tinnitus has spiked a bit, so I'm worried of course it's due to some "hidden" effect of ANC and ultra-high frequency noise cancellation causing a permanent increase in my tinnitus...? But I suspect this is just my anxious mind flinching at shadows, given I did not have this effect on the way TO Australia and I followed the same protocol almost exactly. More likely it's my anxiety and the relative quiet (and boredom) of home making my tinnitus more noticeable.

Hope this helps!

 

[DeanD]

Only last week I took a return flight, and measured the dB reading so I knew how loud things were.

I flew on an Airbus A320 Jet.

My tinnitus is insanely reactive, multiple tones and is classed as severe in terms of loudness (very very loud).

Takeoff - peaked at 85 dB for a very short while, perhaps a few seconds. Average of 80 dB until the plane left the tarmac where it averaged 75 dB until the plane was at altitude.

Cruising at 13000ft - this averaged at between 60 dB and 70 dB. It didn't feel particularly loud.

Toilet - flushing the toilet is loud and peaked at 85 dB, perhaps slightly louder than the plane taking off.

Landing - similar to take off. Until the plane hit the tarmac dB readings were on average 70 dB - 75 dB, and it reached 85 dB on landing on the runway

On the return flight I was, unknowingly when choosing the seat, right next to the wing and engine. The dB meter didn't increase from when I was in the 2nd row.

85 dB is the safety limit for every employer to insist earplugs are given to staff, cabin crew do not wear earplugs, so this should give an idea of volumes on a plane.

I wore custom molded earplugs for take off and landing, and normal over ear headphones (not switched on) for the rest of the flight.

I could still hear my tinnitus throughout the duration of the flight.

I worried about the flight for such a long time, but I seem to have a greater problem with stupid artificial sounds from a phone or laptop speaker at 30 dB than I did the flight!

 

[another sean]

Only last week I took a return flight, and measured the dB reading so I knew how loud things were.

I flew on an Airbus A320 Jet.

My tinnitus is insanely reactive, multiple tones and is classed as severe in terms of loudness (very very loud).

Takeoff - peaked at 85 dB for a very short while, perhaps a few seconds. Average of 80 dB until the plane left the tarmac where it averaged 75 dB until the plane was at altitude.

Cruising at 13000ft - this averaged at between 60 dB and 70 dB. It didn't feel particularly loud.

Toilet - flushing the toilet is loud and peaked at 85 dB, perhaps slightly louder than the plane taking off.

Landing - similar to take off. Until the plane hit the tarmac dB readings were on average 70 dB - 75 dB, and it reached 85 dB on landing on the runway

On the return flight I was, unknowingly when choosing the seat, right next to the wing and engine. The dB meter didn't increase from when I was in the 2nd row.

85 dB is the safety limit for every employer to insist earplugs are given to staff, cabin crew do not wear earplugs, so this should give an idea of volumes on a plane.

I wore custom molded earplugs for take off and landing, and normal over ear headphones (not switched on) for the rest of the flight.

I could still hear my tinnitus throughout the duration of the flight.

I worried about the flight for such a long time, but I seem to have a greater problem with stupid artificial sounds from a phone or laptop speaker at 30 dB than I did the flight!

How long was the flight?

Have you taken other flights since?

How many days did it take for the spike to come back down to baseline?

What was the cause of your severe tinnitus in October 2022? Acoustic trauma or something else?

Thanks.

 

[DeanD]

How long was the flight?

Have you taken other flights since?

How many days did it take for the spike to come back down to baseline?

What was the cause of your severe tinnitus in October 2022? Acoustic trauma or something else?

Thanks.

The flight was 4.5 hours.

No other flights, but I have some booked.

Not sure it did spike, but it was better the next day.

The cause of my tinnitus worsening was microsuction.

 

[OppsallT]

My tinnitus started in October and at the time I thought it was just a sinus infection and wasn't about to cancel an already-paid-for-no-refunds overseas trip. I flew 12 hours overnight - my ears were tortured on the way there but a really good night's rest made it back to a baseline the next day.

Maybe try booking a seat further from the engines and bathrooms. I bet earplugs would have been a huge help too, but I didn't have any at the time.

A direct flight, if possible, would probably be a good idea. Less stress/fatigue, and honestly I found the noise in the airport just as bad as the plane itself.

 

[another sean]

Has anyone had a bad experience flying on a commercial airplane where it worsened their tinnitus permanently?

The idea of being on an airplane for 12 hours at noise levels of around 70 dB would seem like it would cause damage, but does it not cause damage because even though the decibels are around 70 to 80 dB, the sounds from an airplane are different than sounds you would hear e.g., from cars driving by or other kinds of machinery noises that would usually cause damage? Like maybe the frequency of the airplane sounds is lower, so even though the decibel level is high, it makes airplane noise less damaging?

 

[Benjaminbb]

How long was the flight?

Have you taken other flights since?

How many days did it take for the spike to come back down to baseline?

What was the cause of your severe tinnitus in October 2022? Acoustic trauma or something else?

Thanks.

I fly long haul often - I don't have reactive tinnitus very often but I do have hyperacusis and I don't think either is affected much.

Most of the sound in a plane on long haul flights is low frequency, so not the blaring highs that would usually give you reactivity (I assume). You'll be surprised at how well active noise-canceling works on a plane.

If you use active noise-canceling headphones, with foam earplugs it gets pretty quiet. Foam earplugs actually reduce even more at higher frequencies, than they are rated at. Look up "foam earplug attenuation graph" You'll see they almost hit 50 dB reduction at 4-8 kHz on a 32 dB plug. Whilst the active noise-canceling headphones are reducing sooo much of the hum and cabin noise.

When it comes to frequencies above 250 Hz, I feel like it is barely 60 dB hitting your ears - whilst the cabin usually sits at 75 dB outside of the protection but sometimes 80 dB.

It's basically silent and the bass is the only thing that gets through a bit. So if you're not overly triggered by bass, you're likely OK.

As some people have mentioned, the shorter flights on smaller planes can be louder but the long haul flights are quieter.

 

[another sean]

I fly long haul often - I don't have reactive tinnitus very often but I do have hyperacusis and I don't think either is affected much.

Most of the sound in a plane on long haul flights is low frequency, so not the blaring highs that would usually give you reactivity (I assume). You'll be surprised at how well active noise-canceling works on a plane.

If you use active noise-canceling headphones, with foam earplugs it gets pretty quiet. Foam earplugs actually reduce even more at higher frequencies, than they are rated at. Look up "foam earplug attenuation graph" You'll see they almost hit 50 dB reduction at 4-8 kHz on a 32 dB plug. Whilst the active noise-canceling headphones are reducing sooo much of the hum and cabin noise.

When it comes to frequencies above 250 Hz, I feel like it is barely 60 dB hitting your ears - whilst the cabin usually sits at 75 dB outside of the protection but sometimes 80 dB.

It's basically silent and the bass is the only thing that gets through a bit. So if you're not overly triggered by bass, you're likely OK.

As some people have mentioned, the shorter flights on smaller planes can be louder but the long haul flights are quieter.

I'm considering flying on an Airbus 380 to Australia (15-hour flight). It's supposedly the quietest airplane out there. It's a full length double decker plane. Although I'm not sure if the lower or upper level is quieter.

 

[DeanD]

I'm considering flying on an Airbus 380 to Australia (15-hour flight). It's supposedly the quietest airplane out there. It's a full length double decker plane. Although I'm not sure if the lower or upper level is quieter.

In theory upstairs would be a bit quieter as it's further away from the engine - but in reality I flew outbound in the first row - and return I was right above the wing (hadn't noticed) and my decibel meter showed exactly the same dB read out. It's marginal at worst.

Why wouldn't you try a shorter flight of an hour or so first?

 

[another sean]

In theory upstairs would be a bit quieter as it's further away from the engine - but in reality I flew outbound in the first row - and return I was right above the wing (hadn't noticed) and my decibel meter showed exactly the same dB read out. It's marginal at worst.

Why wouldn't you try a shorter flight of an hour or so first?

Because the other planes are louder. Especially the narrow body planes used for short haul flights versus the wide body planes for long haul flights. I would be more concerned causing damage on a shorter, much noisier flight. I've read the A380 is like nothing else.

 

[kingsfan]

Because the other planes are louder. Especially the narrow body planes used for short haul flights versus the wide body planes for long haul flights. I would be more concerned causing damage on a shorter, much noisier flight. I've read the A380 is like nothing else.

I'm going to try to see if I can't get the models of aircraft I have flown because the short haul flight I took was quieter than my car on highway. It was very comfortable.

Also I want to see if I have flown on the A380, because one of my flights on an Airbus was also very comfortable while another was not so much.

 

[another sean]

I'm going to try to see if I can't get the models of aircraft I have flown because the short haul flight I took was quieter than my car on highway. It was very comfortable.

Also I want to see if I have flown on the A380, because one of my flights on an Airbus was also very comfortable while another was not so much.

If you flew an airplane with two levels, not just a hump in the front but two full length levels spanning the entire plane, that's the A380. It's the only plane like that. It's the largest commercial airplane in the world.

 

[RBajaj]

@another sean, you state your tinnitus was caused by "long duration of low audio." What exactly does that mean? Constant noise like white noise at night? Or a fan?

 

[DeanD]

Because the other planes are louder. Especially the narrow body planes used for short haul flights versus the wide body planes for long haul flights. I would be more concerned causing damage on a shorter, much noisier flight. I've read the A380 is like nothing else.

Mine was considered a short haul flight, and on a short haul plane in a 3-3 configuration. 70 dB in air, 85 dB on takeoff and landing. In air it was no louder than a car journey - which I have measured too.

In fact I personally found the plane slightly less bothersome than a car journey - and I have crazy loud reactive tinnitus that spikes just opening my door and listening to the quiet ambient air.

I am flying on the large upper and lower deck A380 next month - I haven't decided which level but probably upper.

Of course it's your mileage here but I don't think I would want to try a 15-hour flight before trying a 1-hour flight.

The reality is you can analyse this to a crazy in-depth level, chasing your tail, but until you're in the air you can just never know.

I was as worried as you, and I have another condition that could make flying very problematic, but as much research as I did and found (and trust me I am a ridiculous level researcher and drive others crazy with it), it was no comparison to actually being in the air.

I thought I would have to wear not only my custom molded earplugs, but also my Peltors on top of that too. I didn't. I wore my custom molded earplugs for takeoff and landing, but I just put over-ear headphones on (without being on or playing anything of course) when in the air and it was OK.

 

[another sean]

@another sean, you state your tinnitus was caused by "long duration of low audio." What exactly does that mean? Constant noise like white noise at night? Or a fan?

I was listening to NIN Ghosts (ambient instrumental only music) all day long (8 hours a day) while I worked and studied on repeat for about 2 weeks with $300 audiophile headphones at low to medium volume. Using a physical, not phone app, sound pressure meter used for home theater, I estimate the volume was around 65-70 dB.

People don't tell you duration is important too. Not just volume.

Mine was considered a short haul flight, and on a short haul plane in a 3-3 configuration. 70 dB in air, 85 dB on takeoff and landing. In air it was no louder than a car journey - which I have measured too.

In fact I personally found the plane slightly less bothersome than a car journey - and I have crazy loud reactive tinnitus that spikes just opening my door and listening to the quiet ambient air.

I am flying on the large upper and lower deck A380 next month - I haven't decided which level but probably upper.

Of course it's your mileage here but I don't think I would want to try a 15-hour flight before trying a 1-hour flight.

The reality is you can analyse this to a crazy in-depth level, chasing your tail, but until you're in the air you can just never know.

I was as worried as you, and I have another condition that could make flying very problematic, but as much research as I did and found (and trust me I am a ridiculous level researcher and drive others crazy with it), it was no comparison to actually being in the air.

I thought I would have to wear not only my custom molded earplugs, but also my Peltors on top of that too. I didn't. I wore my custom molded earplugs for takeoff and landing, but I just put over-ear headphones on (without being on or playing anything of course) when in the air and it was OK.

Do you recall what plane it was, or at least if it was Boeing or Airbus?

How did you handle the PA systems, like the airport announcements and especially any announcements in mid-flight by the stewardesses? I've heard they are petty loud so people can hear what they say over the cabin noise.

 

[DeanD]

Do you recall what plane it was, or at least if it was Boeing or Airbus?

How did you handle the PA systems, like the airport announcements and especially any announcements in mid-flight by the stewardesses? I've heard they are petty loud so people can hear what they say over the cabin noise.

It was an Airbus A320 jet.

I don't really remember there being many announcements. There must have been of course but they mustn't have been too bad as it is not something I particularly remember (and would ordinarily be sensitive to stuff like that) - you also have announcements at the airport, which I feel would be as loud if not louder.

Bear in mind I haven't watched TV or listened to music in a year as the reactiveness goes absolutely crazy, even on the lowest volume. I have tried and tried but just can't. I only have artificial audio when I have work calls, and try to limit them where I can, but I didn't notice or feel the announcements on the plane were a problem.

 

[RBajaj]

@another sean, how exactly do you measure sound pressure with over-the-ear headphones, like a Bose QC35? I bought a decibel level meter from Amazon.

 

[another sean]

It was an Airbus A320 jet.

I don't really remember there being many announcements. There must have been of course but they mustn't have been too bad as it is not something I particularly remember (and would ordinarily be sensitive to stuff like that) - you also have announcements at the airport, which I feel would be as loud if not louder.

Bear in mind I haven't watched TV or listened to music in a year as the reactiveness goes absolutely crazy, even on the lowest volume. I have tried and tried but just can't. I only have artificial audio when I have work calls, and try to limit them where I can, but I didn't notice or feel the announcements on the plane were a problem.

I have crazy reactive tinnitus too so your experience is probably the most important that I have read. I haven't listened to TV or music in years because it spikes my tinnitus for days. I do OK with a a voice call but that's been only recent. Before I couldn't handle a voice call either.

I look forward to hearing about your A380 flight next month.

@another sean, how exactly do you measure sound pressure with over-the-ear headphones, like a Bose QC35? I bought a decibel level meter from Amazon.

Just get a SPL meter and take off the foam cover and stick it in the headphone to where about you ear would be and test the sound level. You can try wrapping your hand/fingers around the sensor's shaft so you isolate the ear pocket as well.

 

[kingsfan]

How did you handle the PA systems, like the airport announcements and especially any announcements in mid-flight by the stewardesses? I've heard they are petty loud so people can hear what they say over the cabin noise.

The PA on some flights were problematic for me. Some had the volume cranked while others were so low it was difficult to hear with earplugs in.

Some airports have golf carts that move people with disabilities around, and they honk their horns quite often to alert those unaware of their surroundings.

 

[another sean]

It was an Airbus A320 jet.

I don't really remember there being many announcements. There must have been of course but they mustn't have been too bad as it is not something I particularly remember (and would ordinarily be sensitive to stuff like that) - you also have announcements at the airport, which I feel would be as loud if not louder.

Bear in mind I haven't watched TV or listened to music in a year as the reactiveness goes absolutely crazy, even on the lowest volume. I have tried and tried but just can't. I only have artificial audio when I have work calls, and try to limit them where I can, but I didn't notice or feel the announcements on the plane were a problem.

Have you taken your long-haul flight yet? If so, how is your tinnitus afterwards?

 

[DeanD]

Have you taken your long-haul flight yet? If so, how is your tinnitus afterwards?

It was fine. You'll never know though until you do it.

 

[momus]

It was fine. You'll never know though until you do it.

Yes, that's dat 'ol debil in de details. We just don't know. The tinnitus in my left ear went crazy yesterday from just one energy drink. I've flown in the past and didn't have any issues, but every situation w/ this condition is a new situation, even if it's something we've done before — if that makes any sense.

I remember the times I did fly, sometimes you simply took off and landed. No problem. Other times, landing seemed to stretch out for days until we finally set down. That was not fun.

 

[Robert Logan]

I have had the same experiences as others. I have awful, reactive tinnitus going on, but flying (even long flights in Economy as I have to do) has never caused major problems. HOWEVER, I do always wear both earplugs and earmuffs. I'm surprised people are getting such low numbers; I've often measured 80-90 dB while flying, let alone take-off and landing - on multiple apps. Having said that, a recent trip to Berlin had (relatively) very quiet take-offs and landings, so I guess there's quite a bit of variety.

So many things have caused me trouble with tinnitus, but apart from one flight which had an unusual amount of rumble my protection didn't quite reduce enough, flights have not been one of them.

Simple encouraging good human story: I was at the airport for this flight a few days ago, and baggage check is always a nightmare because of the severely reactive tinnitus. This time at Gatwick, however, one lady searching bags was very gentle about it, took time out to arrange for me to wear something indicating I had earmuffs on for a reason, told me I should never feel bad for keeping them on all through the process & basically made me feel uplifted rather than... various other things. Very thankful for that!

 

[DeanD]

Have you taken your long-haul flight yet? If so, how is your tinnitus afterwards?

I know you were contemplating the Airbus A380. I flew that a week ago and was on the upper deck. It's quiet. Surprisingly quiet.

I didn't measure the dB, but it was quieter than the Boeing 777.

 

[ZFire]

Honestly, with all the turmoil and chaos surrounding The Boeing Company lately, I suggest you all avoid their planes like the plague that they are.

I know you were contemplating the Airbus A380. I flew that a week ago and was on the upper deck. It's quiet. Surprisingly quiet.

I didn't measure the dB, but it was quieter than the Boeing 777.

Thanks for sharing this, @DeanD . I've been thinking about traveling myself lately. I suppose if I were traveling long distances, I'd want to be sure that the connecting flight is also on an Airbus A380 as well. Do you think arranging that could be challenging?

 

[DeanD]

Thanks for sharing this, @DeanD . I've been thinking about traveling myself lately. I suppose if I were traveling long distances, I'd want to be sure that the connecting flight is also on an Airbus A380 as well. Do you think arranging that could be challenging?

I guess it depends on where you're flying to and who you're flying with.

As the Airbus A380 is such a large plane, I guess it's really used commercially for the long haul - do you need a connecting flight?

I have flown on the Boeing 777 and Airbus A320 jet - although the Airbus A380 (upstairs, I didn't go downstairs) was quieter, none really caused much of an issue.