Regenokine (Orthokine) Treatment: Meniere's Disease “100 Percent Cured” in Germany?

[Molan]

Hi Jazz, yeah there isn't much about this type of treatment which seems to be a modified form of PRP. There are some studies done on PRP however the ones I read about were all for orthopaedic problems. They do look very encouraging though and there is obviously potential for ear problems as evidenced by Dana white saying the worst of his Menieres is gone.

Unfortunately I have no idea what they did with this procedure. In the press call Yonakpin posted Dana didn't mention any specifics.

Thanks for that pubmed link. The Regenexx site is back up now for anyone interested but incase it goes down again I will post their youtube video talking about the procedures that they do.

 

[jazz]

Thanks Molan! I have an old knee injury from bicycling that I used to manage with ibuprofen. Now, I have options that won't irritate the T. Great find.

 

[deidre]

Big fan of ol' Dana White and the UFC, great to see he is doing well. I don't know if this treatment would be effective with tinnitus or hearing loss to be honest. Dana has suffered from inner ear issues because he got jumped and punched in the head quite a few times when he was younger, and still has pretty bad hearing loss (he mentioned this at the most recent media scrum) which is still there even though the Meniere's is gone.

This treatment seems to deal with chronic inflammation, but I could be wrong.

You are right - the treatment is for chronic inflammation; which is why Dana White feels cured. It lasts a few years (I have been told two to four years), then he will have to go back and have the treatment done again. I have been in touch with Dr. Renna of Santa Monica and Dr. Capla of New York regarding the exact same treatment. It will not treat or cure tinnitus as it is for inflammation only. BUT, if you have cervical, thoracic, lumbar spine or joint issues or Meniere's Disease, it will help you feel better.

After talking to the doctors, it seems that the sooner you can have the treatment the better it works. It reduces the inflammation, getting rid of the pain and works through the inner ear by using that reduction of inflammation.

I have been quoted a price of $12,500.00 to have the procedure done - this does not include the hospital or clinic where they inject you - another $2,500.00 in Santa Monica with Dr. Renna. The place in New York told me they would meet the price (after quoting me $15,000.00!)!

They injected Dana White intramuscularly, but through talking with the doctors, the enriched blood will affect all inflammation throughout the body - wherein helping the inner ear and maybe not curing Meniere's, but definitely making those who have it feel a lot better! So, if you have joint or spinal issues, your Meniere's will be helped as well.

I am waiting to hear from Dr. Wehling in Germany, where I just sent my MRI pictures to. I have cervical neck issues and my neurosurgeon is wanting to do a spinal fusion on two levels in my neck! I prefer to either have the injections and possibly have 2 to 4 years of feeling no pain (with the Meniere's being helped at the same time!), or have the total disc replacement, an invention Dr. Wehling came up with years ago which allows people who need to have cervical disc fusion (in the United States) the ability to not only heal faster but have all of your neck mobility instead of the limited mobility offered by spinal fusion. I am looking at the same operation Peyton Manning had a year or so ago...

I'll let you guys know what Dr. Wehling quotes me for the price of the injections. So far, the cost for flying two people to Germany - and staying two weeks is less than $4,000.00. The price to fly to New York and stay in a decent hotel is about $5,000.00. Add into that the $12,500.00 fee for the treatment (in NY) and you understand why it's the top 1 - 2 percent of the population who can afford to get this done. BUT, there are also some of us who can get a second mortgage to pay for it... That's my option and if things go well, I can pay off the second mortgage in time to have my second treatment in two to four years. ANYTHING to feel better! Sorry about the 24/7 tinnitus - I just try to ignore it and live with it, but when it is roaring, I know a vertigo attack is coming and I am going to be very, very sick for about three weeks.

 

[deidre]

Dr. Wehling didn't invent the total disc replacement - sorry! Brain fog...

 

[jazz]

BUT, there are also some of us who can get a second mortgage to pay for it... That's my option and if things go well, I can pay off the second mortgage in time to have my second treatment in two to four years. ANYTHING to feel better! Sorry about the 24/7 tinnitus - I just try to ignore it and live with it, but when it is roaring, I know a vertigo attack is coming and I am going to be very, very sick for about three weeks.

Hi deidre,

Sorry to hear you're in pain. I've always felt Meniere's tends to be worse tinnitus--since it is tinnitus plus vertigo. But at least you have hope. Keep us posted on your progress! And that's for the detailed information on the treatment.


I know many people would take a second mortgage on their house if their tinnitus could be cured. As you know, current tinnitus therapies are anything but admirable. They are expensive and there's no guarantee you'll get any relief. But this stem cell treatment sounds like a cure--even if you have to redo it in 2 to 4 years. Who knows? Insurance might cover the procedure by then. Anyway, I know there are people on TT who suffer from Meniere's so they might be interested in talking with you.

How long have they been doing this treatment?

.

 

[deidre]

Good morning Jazz,

After talking with Dr. Capla in New York, he told me they have treated 90,000 patients for over 18 years -- because the procedure is approved in Europe. He also told me because of big drug companies and the FDA, it will never be approved for use in the U.S. because it is a procedure vs. a drug that has to undergo more stringent regulations. This makes me angry!! Especially because of all of the money drug companies spend on both parties, lobbying, to make sure they hold politicians in their pockets! And Dr. Capla should know as he claimed over the phone to help come up with the procedure...

Maybe I sound like a broken record, but some of what Dana White may have suffered with his Meniere's included debilitating vertigo (that puts me on my back [lying still for hours to days] so that I don't keep spinning and puking). Migraine headaches and inability to go out to bars, large open, loud areas (including grocery stores) because of the onset of vertigo or brain-fog the over stimulus causes.. Some people (me) suffer from PTSD because of fear of the attacks, being laughed at while in public because of "being drunk", trying to get home when alone while spinning and vomiting, driving while alone and having a vertigo attack, losing your hearing and inability to decipher noises while your tinnitus is roaring, et cetera... Then there are the drop attacks that begin after years of having the disease! While all this is going on with every attack you lose more balance and hearing. But every ones biggest fear is going bilateral...

WHAT MAKES ME ANGRY IS the fact that OUR government would rather allow insurance companies free leeway with vestibular nerve sections, shunts or a labrynthectomy vs. a procedure where a doctor takes your own blood, heats and spins it then reinters that substance into your same body. Sad.... And NOT cost effective! UGH!

 

[jazz]

He also told me because of big drug companies and the FDA, it will never be approved for use in the U.S. because it is a procedure vs. a drug that has to undergo more stringent regulations. This makes me angry!! Especially because of all of the money drug companies spend on both parties, lobbying, to make sure they hold politicians in their pockets!

WHAT MAKES ME ANGRY IS the fact that OUR government would rather allow insurance companies free leeway with vestibular nerve sections, shunts or a labrynthectomy vs. a procedure where a doctor takes your own blood, heats and spins it then reinters that substance into your same body. Sad.... And NOT cost effective! UGH!

I diedre,

I understand your problems--not with Meniere's but with the medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance industry. Your observations and arguments shed insight into why people with Meniere's and tinnitus still suffer so. With tinnitus, you can argue about the technology lacking until recently (imaging technologies), but researchers did virtually nothing in the field for years. That began to change with the TRI (the European Tinnitus Research Initiative). Much of their work involves exploring information and hypotheses--many of which were ten to twenty years old!

Volumes of information exist exploring how the government and the private sector have developed a medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance industry that operates more on profit than on medical need. I'm simplifying here, and I don't want to bash the medical and insurance infrastructure. Obviously, we are all better off with this infrastructure than without it. (Without insurance, there is no hope!) That said, it is important we understand how the system works. Nothing will be changed until we change it. (I know we have no well paid lobbyists, etc., but I like to believe reform is possible.)

You seem quite knowledgeable about what procedures work and what don't. It's infuriating to discover that useless procedures are employed that probably result in more harm rather than help. Do policy organizations for Meneire's exist who could lobby for treatment reforms? (I wouldn't count on the ATA, but you could write to them too.)

Your description of Meniere's sounds awful! It makes me reconsider my chronic tinnitus--which is only about the noise and concentration difficulties. The 90,000 procedures you site does sound impressive. I'm presuming there's positive research in the medical literature on this treatment. If such information exists (not all successful treatments have a cadre of literature substantiating their claims), this needs to be presented to policymakers or patient advocacy organizations. The FDA, moreover, is now interested in patient input. So there are sources to pursue, but the road is long and replete with obstacles. For now, you have to focus on recovering from your vertigo attack and obtaining treatment.

While you're recovering--if you can read--you might find the following book interesting. I've not read it yet, but it has good reviews and the author, a physician, was also an editor at the New England Journal of Medicine:

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http://www.amazon.com/dp/0375760946/?tag=tinntalk-20​

Here are links to an excerpt and two reviews of the book:

http://group.bmj.com/docs/pdf/8_2_s10.pdf​

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/arc...th-about-the-drug-companies/?pagination=false​

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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/14/books/review/14HALL.html?_r=0​

​

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[Jesse Tarver]

Any news on this Orthokine procedure? So it is confirmed that they actually treat Meniere's in germany using this type of therapy correct? I'd love to get this done asap.

 

[deidre]

Hey Jazz,

I've been busy but look forward to reading the articles you shared with me and getting back with you regarding my thoughts...

Hey Jesse! We'll figure this Orthokine thing out and I'll be sure to keep you in the loop!

Take care!

D~

 

[TXPomgirl]

Hey there Deidre! I stumbled upon this forum after trying to find new info about Dana White's current status since he had his Orthokine treatment in Germany. That's how I discovered Dr Renna and Regenokine! I suffer from bilateral Meniere's as it began in my left ear back in 1996 and transferred into my right ear 3yrs later. I've had sac decompression surgeries on both ears which helped somewhat, tubes, Meniette, NAET (didn't finish it but it would've most likely worked had I been able to stick with my treatment), acupuncture, Chinese herbs, Rx's, and listened to the Sound Therapy CD's (www.soundtherapyinternational.com). The sound therapy did help but because I noticed relief of my Meniere's symptoms within a week and a half of listening, I stopped and my symptoms returned! But I've already gone thru both the basic and advanced levels and my ears need the 3rd level now which is about $550 for the new MP3 format device. But the one thing that also helped was a diet change. The NAET acupuncturist I saw in Dallas/Plano recommended I cut out wheat/gluten, dairy, and sugar which I did and after a delayed reaction started to notice an improvement in my equilibrium. Now I actually already paid for the phone consultation with Dr Renna's associate, Dr Ben-Roohi but had to cancel my Regenokine in Dallas that was supposed to have taken place late January due to certain circumstances out of my control. So I will have to reschedule it as my right ear has been acting up with fuller/louder tinnitus and equilibrium changes. Whenever I cough, bend down, put my earbuds in or remove them, the pressure and sound vibrate thru my mastoid bone into the cochlear vestibular nerves and affect my equilibrium for that split second due to inflammation. Dr Renna's assistant Rosie, said that everybody he's treated who also has Meniere's has felt significant improvement in their symptoms!!! I got accepted because of my right shoulder's still experiencing lingering pain after my shoulder scope surgery Dec 2012. So I will be KILLING TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE so to speak!! LOL!! When I do get the Regenokine done eventually (hopefully soon!) Dr Renna will draw 2oz of my blood, centerfuge it, incubate the part that has the anti-inflammatory agents, and inject it thru my right shoulder 6 times (one shot per day)! Rosie has said a few people have noticed improvement just after the 5th shot! Others have noticed at about 6wks, but most notice between 2 and 6wks she said. Since I'm located about an hour and 10min from his clinic in Dallas, I will have to go find a place to stay up there for 6 nights close to the clinic in uptown, but have someone with me for my safety. Once I begin my treatment, I may post an update back up here for everyone to see. Then once I'm finished and I start noticing some improvement, I will definitely share my experience with you all and give my results! Please pray for me as I will for you!

 

[AnnaW]

If the treatment you are discussing is stem cell therapy. (forgive me if I am mistaken)
Then what I wonder about is if (and there are many ifs!) ... meniere's is about the endolymph swelling and becoming damaged and thus damaging the tiny hairs in the cochlear leading to T and hearing loss.
And if stem cell therapy actually regrows these hairs (which if hearing is restored then it must do)
Then wouldn't all the vertigo episodes just happen all over again because the flooding of the endolymph would continue and the hairs would start to be destroyed slowly all over again?
And isn't the endolymph ruptured? Or does that membrane get repaired too?
And, there are permanent physiological changes to meniere's ears, canals narrowing and so forth, what happens to these after stem cell treatment?
Also, in my case I have been profoundly deaf on left ear for 13 years. I'm told by ENT that this ear will have reduced innervation, so much so that it is unlikely a cochlear implant would help it. So can stem cell therapy actually improve innervation?
I have contacted a few stem cell treatment centres in Germany and Mexico, but they always give such vague info. Why is there not more robust collated data on the people they have treated?

 

[ffJimmy]

Hello, my name is Jimmy I'm a firefighter in north western AZ. I've had Ménière's for 7 months and was having attacks EVERY SINGLE DAY at least one a day typically two - three a day. After 11 drs and a multitude of tests I was diagnosed in Las Vegas and started HCTZ for water retention. It helped a little. But at the same time I've been researching the regenokine treatments. Well the long story of it I also have back problems and used that to get the treatments done in Santa Monica CA with lifespan medicine Dr Moshe Ben-Roohi. Outstanding individual I must say!!
But it WORKED For me it's been a week and I'm at 80% and getting better. Dr Ben-Roohi gave me a 50-50 if the Meniere's was caused by inflammation in me then it would work if not then it wouldn't work. But it did and it started to work after the second shot series out of four. If you have any questions please ask and I will answer the best I can and yes the regenokine was $15,000 (fifteen thousand) I had to take a loan but at least I'm better and can work!

 

[AnnaW]

perhaps orthokine treatment has an effect on interleukin and this research states that menieres patients have increased interleukin 2 receptor expression.... just some thoughts...

 

[Jas]

Hi all, I'm a long term Meniers sufferer and after reading about PRP I decided to contact Prof. Dr. Wehling & Dr. Hartmann's clinic in Germany. Below is the reply I got not reassuring in some way but if read carefully they feel that it will benefit Meniers:

Thank you for your email and your interest in our work.

We would like to point out that Regenokine and Orthokine procedures are used in orthopaedic applications and were verified for Osteoarthritis and spine disease by randomized, double-blind studies.

The use of this procedure in other indications like the one described is a so called "off label" use which we do not want to promote actively, as there are no double- blind studies for this indication.

Therefor we cannot offer the treatment on a routine basis. However if you should have an orthopaedic problem which falls into in the indication of Regenokine/Orthokine, a treatment could be done and a therapeutic effect on your discussed medical problem might be possible. If this is the case, please send us the last medical reports about this condition. We can give predictions of outcome for the orthopaedic indications but not for other indications. We hope you understand this.

To get a better insight about the Regenokine program you can purchase the published book

"The End of pain." on Amazon kindle and iTunes. www.the-end-of-pain.com

Please don't hesitate to contact us for further questions.

Now I'm unsure what to reply with next, I've read aspects of the book and it does state that PRP is used for orthopaedic related illnesses but it also states it had major benefits on other health related issues of patients i.e. Chrons and Colitis. I've now contacted Dr Ben-Roohi in Dallas for more answers, awaiting to hear back.

- Jas

 

[ffJimmy]

Hey Jas,

I was in the same boat with Ménière's and decided to go for the treatment in Santa Monica and it work for me. Dr. Ben-Roohi was my dr there and is an amazing guy!! I'm more then willing to answer all your questions so please feel free to ask me. I had my regenokine done the beginning of Nov and I feel outstanding. I hope to talk with you very soon Jimmy.

 

[AnnaW]

@ffJimmy Did you have hearing loss, and has that been afffected by your treatment? Has your Tinnitus been affected by the treatment? I presume from your above post that you were having daily or very frequent vertigo, which have now totally gone?
@Jas it seems like the Doc is asking for a referral from orthopedics. I'm so tempted by this treatment right now. I am sick of having this disease.

 

[ffJimmy]

@AnnaW @Jas
According to my hearing test I did not have hearing lose, but I did have attacks of ear pressure with complete hearing loss in one ear or the other never both at the same time along with tenitus. The tenitus was never full time.
My daily life was as if I was constantly floating and EVERY SINGLE DAY I would have at least 1 up to 3 sever vertigo attacks that would make me vomit and have to lay flat and not move. The ear pressure was almost unbearable. I was sensitive to elevation and weather pressure changes (I still am to a degree but it's also getting better ) noise effects me as well to the point I had to sit in a room by myself away from the tv and my family.
Jimmy

 

[AnnaW]

I'm sorry to hear your symptoms I do understand how rubbish it is.
Can you tell me about your recovery since treatment? It sounds as though it has been gradual? You say you are still affected byt he weather, in what way? Do you have mild dizziness when the barometric pressure changes? Are you on any special diet or medication still?

 

[Jas]

@AnnaW Yes I think thats what they require a referral from orthopedics. But it would have to be for a non Ménière's related case, and subsequently treating that alignment will benefit my Ménière's or so.

@ffJimmy I've received an email back from LifeSpan, Santa Monica. They will only discuss the matter via a phone call, I plan to call them tomorrow. It seems like they are happy to offer the treatment unlike Prof. Dr. Wehling & Dr. Hartmann's clinic in Germany. Shame as that would have been ideal due to traveling time and having family in Germany, not to mention the cost factor involved.

I have also looked into John of Ohio's Regimen for now and will be starting it in a few days. Its been something that's been talked about allot on other forums, and allot of people are having successful results. Its worth a try for the time being - anything to help me get by. Its interesting as many claim that the initial offset of Ménière's is caused by a viral infection (similar to herpes) deep within the inner ear tissue, which causes the inflammation (auto immune?) causing build up of fluid and then the sudden offset of vertigo.

The GP gave me Betahistine to try 16mg x 3 a day. However its lead to giving me gastric issues as I have a history of IBS. Other treatments I am trying are Homeopathic which I have been told can take long time to take affect. The Homeopathic doctor told me that the medicine combats viral infections. So perhaps there is a link?

Regards
Jas

 

[AnnaW]

I'm a nutritionist and would not recomend JOH regimen. Overdoses of certain vitamins are mostly unhelpful to the body. I'm afraid I don't support homeopathy either but each to their own.
Meniere's can have many causes - pituitary dysfunction, thyroid dysfunction, autoimmune. I think that an 'autoimmune diet' or similar can help people with Meniere's. You may want to research autoimmune diet - there are many blogs as resources online. A doctor named Seignet was a sort of pioneer of this and developed a 'Hypotoxic diet' which exlcuded gluten and dairy amongst other things. Terry Wahls' story is also of interest.
From the research I am reading, immune system dysfunction is coming up more and more.
A whole foods antiinflammatory diet is something I would recomend.

 

[Jas]

Hi an update: I have contacted Life Span but got quoted $15K + $5 odd for travel hotel expenses. This quite allot for me and I think I will leave PRP if I fail to go into remission in a year and half, this way I can save some $ too should I need it. In the mean time, my GP is talking about Steroid injections to me which may help. I gave the JOH regimen ago but my body can not digest all these pills.

 

[linearb]

in what way is this "stem cell therapy"? It sounds more like PRP.

A couple (small) studies found HSV viral RNA in the inner ears of 100% of deceased meneire's patients, compared to 30% or so of the controls. I blame the herpes! I got tinnitus within months of getting my first cold sore.

 

[linearb]

Obviously this is frustrating news given that he stated he was 100% cured? He clearly has a different definition of what 100% means then most people.

Someone who as meneire's to the extreme of "I cannot walk, function, do my job, do any of the things I enjoy, or support myself", and then recovers to the point of "I can do all of those things again, and my only remaining problem is some sound in my head that I don't think about very much" would probably feel close to 100% cured; obviously the last part is the hard bit and some people do better with that than others.

People who will absolutely never settle for anything less than 100% and feeling as awesome as they did when they were years younger are in for a lifetime of disappointment, because tinnitus or not, your life will be hallmarked by a slow and steady reduction in overall function and health. That's how it works! That's all there is to it. Maybe at some point we will have replaced a lot more of our bodies with synthetic materials, and they will last longer (perhaps much longer), but it's going to be the same basic problem. Everything falls apart.

Show me a 30-year-old with no health problems and a history of overall well-being, and I will show you someone who has a nasty shock coming to them somewhere along the line...

 

[PaulBe]

"Rich people cure their ailments and we don't know about it."

Ever wonder why old Presidents and Prime Ministers almost always seem to live comfortably into their late 80s and 90s?

 

[linearb]

"Rich people cure their ailments and we don't know about it."

Ever wonder why old Presidents and Prime Ministers almost always seem to live comfortably into their late 80s and 90s?

Except they don't, most of the time? Having access to wealth and expensive treatments is great but it will only get you so far, everyone dies, usually in pain. I can give you a list of three dozen presidents and PMs who died young or had bad diseases, if you'd like.

 

[Drg]

I also suffer with Meniere's. I was diagnosed 3 years ago but I was in remission until this January. After that attack I have been miserable. I have my consult with Dr. Capla on Monday - really hopeful that this is the answer. I am also looking at low level laser, chelation, Wahl's Protocol, and chiropractic. I found a chiropractor in Michigan that claims to specializes in Meniere's. Here is his website - http://burconchiropractic.com/g5-bin/client.cgi?G5genie=53 I'm going to see him at the end of the month.

 

[ffJimmy]

@Drg
I also did chiropractic care with adjustments to my atlas joint (or C-1 the first bone in the neck). It helped a lot but only lasted like 4-5 days before I had to do it again.

 

[AnnaW]

I also suffer with Meniere's. I was diagnosed 3 years ago but I was in remission until this January. After that attack I have been miserable. I have my consult with Dr. Capla on Monday - really hopeful that this is the answer. I am also looking at low level laser, chelation, Wahl's Protocol, and chiropractic. I found a chiropractor in Michigan that claims to specializes in Meniere's. Here is his website - http://burconchiropractic.com/g5-bin/client.cgi?G5genie=53 I'm going to see him at the end of the month.

Did anything occur which may have contributed to the MD returning after 3 years remission?
I find it difficult to hide my negative opinion of chiropractors - its an expensive placebo in my opinion, but thats just my opinion
I've met a couple of ppl on facebook who have done Wahls protocol I am really interested to see how this affects meniere's. Its challenging to measure the effect of intervention when it can as you know go into remission for years!

Wishing you luck keep us posted on your findings

 

[Drg]

Hello AnnaW. I am not sure why my condition went into remission for so long. I do know that when it did come back I had been really bad with my diet. I became slack in watching my salt intake, I had been drinking more alcohol than usual, and worst of all - I had been consuming an obscene amount of sugar. I have always had a sugar addiction and just before my last attack in January, I had been eating a lot of Christmas sweets. When I think back on it I realize just how disgusting I was. I am sure it was a combination of those things that has landed me where I am today but I know that I will beat this thing! If not, I will die trying.

By the way, I am also looking into candida albicans overgrowth.

 

[AnnaW]

Don't be too hard on yourself! Eating rich food over Christmas is very much forced upon us by the culture in which we live. I have had all sorts of healthy and unhealthy times in my life and none of it makes a difference to me. The disease just did what it did. It still doesn't make me afraid of salt, caffeine and booze though! MY Dad has the same illness and seems to think carbs play a part in aggravating his symptoms. Its difficult to tell meniere's is so hit and miss.