Removing the Human Cochlea — Would It Silence the Tinnitus?

[Makrohn]

So, I just played around with a thought I wanted some input on.
Since deaf people also can hear tinnitus, and many theories suggest tinnitus has its source in the cochlea.

Would a complete removal of the cochlea surgically silence the tinnitus?
And is it even possible? Tried to do some searches with no luck.

For people not considering CI but suffering from tinnitus I would think a removal of the source could be a solution.

Please feel free to join with facts and thoughts

 

[maltese]

So, I just played around with a thought I wanted some input on.
Since deaf people also can hear tinnitus, and many theories suggest tinnitus has its source in the cochlea.

Would a complete removal of the cochlea surgically silence the tinnitus?
And is it even possible? Tried to do some searches with no luck.

For people not considering CI but suffering from tinnitus I would think a removal of the source could be a solution.

Please feel free to join with facts and thoughts

They tried it, did not help.

 

[Makrohn]

They tried it, did not help.

Interesting. Do you have a link or reference to some more information regarding this?

 

[chef]

there have been many studies done where they map T in the brain utilizing a MRI. Have found that it is embedded in the brain. Also, and I dont recall all of the specifics of it, and any terminology, but there was a study done. Essentially what it said was that there was a specific thing (part) of the brain that regulated different things, and that they believed that it was involved in T. Essentially, it said that there are many things that your body does that you dont recognize because it nullifies it out (ie, hearing or feeling your heart beating), and it goes a little haywire. So, there are many theories.
Regardless, yes they have cut the auditory nerve, which would bypass all, and had no effect on T.

 

[maltese]

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/cochlear-nerve-section-cures-some-peoples-tinnitus.1792/

 

[Tinker Bell]

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/cochlear-nerve-section-cures-some-peoples-tinnitus.1792/

I know of someone who underwent a similar procedure to treat Meniere's disease. I know they had severe vertigo, not sure if they had tinnitus too. They only had the procedure in one ear, but it worked for them and they're very glad they went through with it.

 

[GregCA]

I know of someone who underwent a similar procedure to treat Meniere's disease. I know they had severe vertigo, not sure if they had tinnitus too. They only had the procedure in one ear, but it worked for them and they're very glad they went through with it.

Did they really go through nerve sectioning or did they go through gentamicin injections?

 

[fhs]

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/cochlear-nerve-section-cures-some-peoples-tinnitus.1792/

There's two issues just looking at the abstract of the study. It might've been for people with tinnitus only coming from one ear. While the procedure might work for tinnitus coming from one ear it might not work for both ears. Also the follow up time. People who don't have tinnitus right after surgery might get it a few weeks after.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8459751

Of the 72 remaining patients, 13 (18.1%) experienced total relief from tinnitus, 16 (22.2%) showed marked improvement, 8 (11.1%) showed slight improvement, 33 (45.8%) had no improvement, and 2 (2.8%) became worse.

Only 18% of people had total relief from tinnitus in this study. Again we don't know if the 18% later get tinnitus due to additional neuroplasticity in the brain because they are deaf (in one ear?).

 

[Tinker Bell]

Did they really go through nerve sectioning or did they go through gentamicin injections?

They underwent a labryinthectomy, I am unsure if they first tried gentamicin injections.

 

[maltese]

There's two issues just looking at the abstract of the study. It might've been for people with tinnitus only coming from one ear. While the procedure might work for tinnitus coming from one ear it might not work for both ears. Also the follow up time. People who don't have tinnitus right after surgery might get it a few weeks after.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8459751

Of the 72 remaining patients, 13 (18.1%) experienced total relief from tinnitus, 16 (22.2%) showed marked improvement, 8 (11.1%) showed slight improvement, 33 (45.8%) had no improvement, and 2 (2.8%) became worse.

Only 18% of people had total relief from tinnitus in this study. Again we don't know if the 18% later get tinnitus due to additional neuroplasticity in the brain because they are deaf (in one ear?).

No, no, no. Oh boy. I quoted this thread because it disproves the study mentioned in the first post. The study is old and inaccurate. My bad.

Cutting the nerve and/or removing the cochlea is a very bad treatment method.

 

[Makrohn]

Thanks for all the input. If T really is "only" in our brain, it certainly keeps the door open for many methods of treatment I guess. I have about 60db loss in both ears, but it will most likely drop more in the years to come. I started using hearing aids 10 years ago and started out with a 45db loss.

One of my fears is that my T at one point will be dominating since my hearing is getting weaker.
So if I one day would go deaf, the thought of removing the cochlea came to mind. But as some of you said, cutting the nerve would do the same and be less extensive. But then again, it would not do anything to T.

 

[Cargell]

Makrohn: I've been diagnosed with Menier's Dx in my Rt Ear since 2006. I always considered myself one of the lucky ones. Only had "maybe" 5 attacks of Veritgo however the lingering T and hearing loss was just something I figured I had to get used to.

That all changed this past March. I woke up one morning with a very noticeable increase in my T. I realized as the day progressed I was having difficulty hearing. To make a long story short, after multiple doctor visits and hearing tests, it was determined I now have an 80% loss of hearing in that ear, and the 20% I have left has a word recognition of 15%. It was described to me as a "burnt out" ear. What most people living with Meniere's Disease experience gradually over years, for some reason happened to me overnight. The little that I do hear is like listening to a blown overhead speaker. In other words for all intent purposes I'm deaf in that ear. BUT . . .YUP the loud T is still there.

I've been told my ear is sending some sound to my brain but my brain doesn't recognize it which is causing it to try to compensate for what it's NOT hearing ...... therefore the big T. Like you, I wondered if cutting the nerve would help. I figured the deafness I could adjust to if it got rid of the T. I've spoken to my doctor about this, and one of the physicists at a Tinnitus clinic where I live and they both told me the same thing: DO NOT GET THE AUDITORY NERVE CUT. Apparently this pisses the nerve and your brain off, and causes the T to get worst.

So, I decided surgery isn't an option for me and found out a hearing aid isn't either. It would just amplify the distorted sounds I hear anyway. If you, or anyone else reading this has heard of this happening to anyone else, I would be interested in contacting them. Also, it goes without saying, if anyone finds any information on Deafness and Tinnitus from Meniere's Disease, I'd like to know.

Good luck.

 

[Cargell]

Oh, I forgot, CHEF: if you know any specifics on that MRI study, Please post it. I'm an MRI Technologist and we do that type of test (called a functional MRI <fMRI>) all the time for other research studies. No one I work with knew of any.
Thanks

 

[Contrast]

There's two issues just looking at the abstract of the study. It might've been for people with tinnitus only coming from one ear. While the procedure might work for tinnitus coming from one ear it might not work for both ears. Also the follow up time. People who don't have tinnitus right after surgery might get it a few weeks after.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8459751

Of the 72 remaining patients, 13 (18.1%) experienced total relief from tinnitus, 16 (22.2%) showed marked improvement, 8 (11.1%) showed slight improvement, 33 (45.8%) had no improvement, and 2 (2.8%) became worse.

Only 18% of people had total relief from tinnitus in this study. Again we don't know if the 18% later get tinnitus due to additional neuroplasticity in the brain because they are deaf (in one ear?).

Bruh, there not removing the cochlea there using a mini sponge to decompress it.
https://mayfieldclinic.com/pe-mvd.htm


Someone please correct me if I misunderstood something.

 

[Wolfears]

Makrohn: I've been diagnosed with Menier's Dx in my Rt Ear since 2006. I always considered myself one of the lucky ones. Only had "maybe" 5 attacks of Veritgo however the lingering T and hearing loss was just something I figured I had to get used to.

That all changed this past March. I woke up one morning with a very noticeable increase in my T. I realized as the day progressed I was having difficulty hearing. To make a long story short, after multiple doctor visits and hearing tests, it was determined I now have an 80% loss of hearing in that ear, and the 20% I have left has a word recognition of 15%. It was described to me as a "burnt out" ear. What most people living with Meniere's Disease experience gradually over years, for some reason happened to me overnight. The little that I do hear is like listening to a blown overhead speaker. In other words for all intent purposes I'm deaf in that ear. BUT . . .YUP the loud T is still there.

I've been told my ear is sending some sound to my brain but my brain doesn't recognize it which is causing it to try to compensate for what it's NOT hearing ...... therefore the big T. Like you, I wondered if cutting the nerve would help. I figured the deafness I could adjust to if it got rid of the T. I've spoken to my doctor about this, and one of the physicists at a Tinnitus clinic where I live and they both told me the same thing: DO NOT GET THE AUDITORY NERVE CUT. Apparently this pisses the nerve and your brain off, and causes the T to get worst.

So, I decided surgery isn't an option for me and found out a hearing aid isn't either. It would just amplify the distorted sounds I hear anyway. If you, or anyone else reading this has heard of this happening to anyone else, I would be interested in contacting them. Also, it goes without saying, if anyone finds any information on Deafness and Tinnitus from Meniere's Disease, I'd like to know.

Good luck.

I would think that with today's technology and our ability to map out the human brain, it shouldn't be that hard to pin-point either the part of the brain at which the tinnitus is embedded, or the part of the brain that is responsible for initiating it.
Then it could be just burned out with a laser with pinpoint precision strike.

I'm pretty confident that if the best scientific brains got together, this could be done without affecting any other brain functions.
The main advantage of this approach would be one cure for all...it would no longer matter whether your tinnitus is somatic, non somatic or whether you got it from acoustic trauma, TMJ or ottotoxic drugs.
It would simply wipe out the part of the brain that is respobsible for either creating the tinnitus or colaborating with it.

 

[TomPearson]

I would think that with today's technology and our ability to map out the human brain, it shouldn't be that hard to pin-point either the part of the brain at which the tinnitus is embedded, or the part of the brain that is responsible for initiating it.
Then it could be just burned out with a laser with pinpoint precision strike.

I'm pretty confident that if the best scientific brains got together, this could be done without affecting any other brain functions.
The main advantage of this approach would be one cure for all...it would no longer matter whether your tinnitus is somatic, non somatic or whether you got it from acoustic trauma, TMJ or ottotoxic drugs.
It would simply wipe out the part of the brain that is respobsible for either creating the tinnitus or colaborating with it.

I'm pretty sure that whatever part of the brain that causes T, probably has another function other than just causing tinnitus.

If it could be isolated and destroyed this way, then there is no way it wouldn't effect something else.

 

[Wolfears]

I'm pretty sure that whatever part of the brain that causes T, probably has another function other than just causing tinnitus.

If it could be isolated and destroyed this way, then there is no way it wouldn't effect something else.

Will probably never find out simce nobody is taking this approach.
Yes maybe some lesser functions could be affected and it might be a trade off.
But remember we only use on average about 5% of our brains...there is a good chance that tinnitus might be hiding in the other 95.