Repeated Modified Nerve Blocks and Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerve Stimulation

[Padraigh Griffin]

Question is why couldn't the person say one way or the other if he/she had any improvement...

The saying 'don't count your chickens' applies here I'd say.

We shall wait for final report and hopefully for both us and the person it is a good result.

 

[Chinmoku]

Question is why couldn't the person say one way or the other if he/she had any improvement...

I suspect they haven't noticed a much of an improvement, otherwise they would have mentioned it. Unless they are afraid of mentioning success not to jinx it. In any case this uncertainty doesn't help. If they had noticed no improvement by session 7 or 8 this would be a bad sign.

Also, I wonder why only one of the two western patients is willing to talk or why we were given only one contact.

This is not to detract from @Uklawyer who is doing us a great service, but so far the information on effectiveness is inconclusive.

The good news are that it's not very painful and there is little discomfort. Also confirmed they inject placenta derived growth factors on top of Lidocaine. Finally, good to know Dr. Soo-Ji Sirh speaks English.

 

[Gb3]

I suspect they haven't noticed a much of an improvement, otherwise they would have mentioned it. Unless they are afraid of mentioning success not to jinx it. In any case this uncertainty doesn't help. If they had noticed no improvement by session 7 or 8 this would be a bad sign.

Also, I wonder why only one of the two western patients is willing to talk or why we were given only one contact.

This is not to detract from @Uklawyer who is doing us a great service, but so far the information on effectiveness is inconclusive.

The good news are that it's not very painful and there is little discomfort. Also confirmed they inject placenta derived growth factors on top of Lidocaine. Finally, good to know Dr. Soo-Ji Sirh speaks English.

As an American I would never refer to myself or any other American as a Westerner. Just saying it's kind of weird.

 

[Chinmoku]

As an American I would never refer to myself or any other American as a Westerner. Just saying it's kind of weird.

The Cambridge dictionary has it down as follows:

westerner, noun (also Westerner)
UK /ˈwes.tə.nər/
US /ˈwes.tɚ.nɚ/
person who comes from a country in the western part of the world, especially North America or western Europe [...]

I have seen it used in the UK, not sure about the US but the dictionary does report the US pronunciation.

 

[Uklawyer]

I suspect they haven't noticed a much of an improvement, otherwise they would have mentioned it. Unless they are afraid of mentioning success not to jinx it.

I think this statement encapsulates the issue with ongoing treatment. You can have initial amazing results and be wary of tempting fate; or you can have little progress but hope for improvement before completion of treatment. You can also have anything in between. I think Padraigh's words below apply here.

The saying 'don't count your chickens' applies here I'd say.

We will just have to be a little patient (as hard as that it for us with this).

As an American I would never refer to myself or any other American as a Westerner. Just saying it's kind of weird.

@Gb3, I have spoken to the person. They seem pretty cool to me.

 

[StoneInFocus]

I suspect they haven't noticed a much of an improvement, otherwise they would have mentioned it.

That is how I read it as well.

"I'd rather wait until I complete the treatment to answer this" = I have not noticed a definite improvement in my tinnitus which cannot be attributed to other factors.

I am all for optimism here, but my overall impression of the study, the treatment and the clinic is pretty poor so far. There are just so many red flags here. Besides that, Lidocaine injections for the treatment of tinnitus have been used for decades already.

I also find it weird how someone who is suffering from tinnitus for just 7 months thinks it is a good idea to fly all the way from the US to South Korea and spend thousands of dollars on this treatment. How did he even get in contact with the clinic? What makes this clinic so special?

 

[BrysonKingMe]

I think we should stop all the speculation before we receive any definitive answer.

 

[Gb3]

@Uklawyer, so you spoke to them on the phone or email. Have you tried searching for them on social media?

 

[Uklawyer]

Also confirmed they inject placenta derived growth factors on top of Lidocaine

I believe the doctor thinks that the treatment can be more effective with this. They also have the ability to do PRP injection I think, but it is usually not proposed due to additional cost.

 

[Joeseph Stope]

Even the prospect of a cure or treatment makes the world a happier place. That's not saying I'm optimistic.

Just that it's nice to have some hope.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

@Uklawyer, if it's not too much, could you ask him if he's seen any improvement at all, even marginal.

Just because another afflicted person is going out there in 2 weeks and would like to set his expectations.

I'm going regardless, since it's useless to compare his results with mine, especially since his seems to be idiopathic while mine is due to noise. But still would be nice to know if anything was noticed one way or another.

Thanks!

 

[Uklawyer]

@Uklawyer, if it's not too much, could you ask him if he's seen any improvement at all, even marginal.

@BrysonKingMe - I asked and the person has said that they have seen an improvement. They are waiting until the conclusion of their treatment to see how much it will be.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

@BrysonKingMe - I asked and the person has said that they have seen an improvement. They are waiting until the conclusion of their treatment to see how much it will be.

That is fantastic news. Thank you SO much. I will keep everyone informed when I go.

My first treatment is on April 23rd now. There was a flight change.

Even if this was reduced by 20% for me, it would be worth it.

Wish me luck!

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

That is fantastic news. Thank you SO much. I will keep everyone informed when I go.

My first treatment is on April 23rd now. There was a flight change.

Even if this was reduced by 20% for me, it would be worth it.

Wish me luck!

Sincere best of luck and well done for being brave and trying this out. You will get good results I feel

 

[Joey72]

BrysonKingMe - you are a brave soul. Best of luck!

 

[BrysonKingMe]

BrysonKingMe - you are a brave soul. Best of luck!

Brave "Seoul" **

 

[Joey72]

Good one!

 

[scotty03874]

That is fantastic news. Thank you SO much. I will keep everyone informed when I go.

My first treatment is on April 23rd now. There was a flight change.

Even if this was reduced by 20% for me, it would be worth it.

Wish me luck!

What are the costs of this procedure?

 

[TomBradyGOAT]

Hello,

I am trying to stay off Tinnitus Talk as it drives my focus to my tinnitus.

I have purchased 2 refundable tickets to Seoul for April 19th, with a consultation and first treatment set up for the 21st.

I have thought about this for quite a while and have decided it's worth a shot. Worst case, it doesn't work and I get to see Seoul with my girlfriend, while still keeping my job and working remotely.

Best case, I get to see Seoul with my girlfriend, keep my job, and have little to no tinnitus afterwards.

I plan on keeping a video log of the process as much as I can and post it here to help you all out. This may change if I hear back from some of the US patients' responses, and they are unsatisfactory, but all I have to do now is book my Airbnb and go through a lengthy process to avoid the 7-day quarantine for unvaccinated persons.

Wish me luck. I feel crazy for doing this, but I am in a place where I can do this with little downside besides the $ it will cost to get me there.

To add to this, some background of my tinnitus:

• Gunshots caused severe tinnitus, 10/10, in 2016.
• Reduced to a loud hiss fairly quickly after Prednisone.
• Concussion 2 months after onset led to some crazy noises, electrical-like, that happened intermittently.
• Habituated to mild/moderate tinnitus, didn't care about it at all.
• 2018, involved in a serious car accident where I got a TBI. Caused a tinnitus spike, but returned to baseline.
• 2020, involved in a bicycle accident where I got yet another concussion, but returned to baseline a month after.
• 2022, acoustic trauma from an aftermarket car alarm that went off 3 feet away from my ear. Ever since then, I have had a few "mild" days, mixed with moderate and severe days. Seems to be no pattern to my tinnitus besides being reset by sleep. But I have not had more than 1 mild/moderate day in a row. Next day it always comes back with a vengeance.
• Currently in TRT therapy, will continue it through this treatment.
• I would say currently my VAS score according to this study's chart is about a 7/8 overall. Hard to say with mild days mixed in here and there. Severe day that follows a mild/moderate day is soul-crushing.
• I also have very reactive tinnitus on the bad days, but not the good days...?

That's all -- like I mentioned I am really trying to stay off here, so please don't expect replies to this until I have something to offer.

Good Lord man, having that stuff happen on a bike and a car and yet you are thinking of flying?

 

[BrysonKingMe]

Good Lord man, having that stuff happen on a bike and a car and yet you are thinking of flying?

Not too worried about the plane crashing.

 

[aura]

Not too worried about the plane crashing.

Yeah, "Final Destination" vibes.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Chinmoku]

What are the costs of this procedure?

$250-350 per session, indicatively, with some variance if you wish growth factors added to the Lidocaine. They recommend 15 sessions usually, but this may vary with the success and severity of ongoing treatments. You can probably negotiate a package of 15 treatments or so beforehand. Still trying to see if someone could do this in the UK but getting nowhere. I contacted a pain clinic but they are not interested. US doctors would certainly know how to do this after some instructing from the Korean doctors, who are willing to share their technique details and send their special needles.

 

[Uklawyer]

What are the costs of this procedure?

I think it was c. US$250 - 350 for the basic treatment. Placenta in addition to the Lidocaine is a bit more and you can also ask for PRP with it I believe at additional cost.

 

[scotty03874]

I think it was c. US$250 - 350 for the basic treatment. Placenta in addition to the Lidocaine is a bit more and you can also ask for PRP with it I believe at additional cost.

That's not too bad. How many injections or treatments do they recommend?

 

[Uklawyer]

That's not too bad. How many injections or treatments do they recommend?

Anywhere from 5 to 18 in the study. The average was c. 9.7 (so 10) in the study. I believe the doctors there are quite confident that you should see some improvement by the 4th treatment. If you are getting results, they keep going until they feel they cannot achieve further improvement.

 

[scotty03874]

Anywhere from 5 to 18 in the study. The average was c. 9.7 (so 10) in the study. I believe the doctors there are quite confident that you should see some improvement by the 4th treatment. If you are getting results, they keep going until they feel they cannot achieve further improvement.

Is this treatment only for tinnitus or also for improving hearing loss?

 

[Gb3]

Is this treatment only for tinnitus or also for improving hearing loss?

Just tinnitus. I think you read her comment wrong.

 

[David S]

@Uklawyer, do you know what the treatment protocol for people coming from abroad is? Are they doing 3 treatments per week for let's say 4-5 weeks or do they want to do a lower number of 1-2 treatments per week after the first 1-2 weeks (as in the study)? How long do you think you have to stay there realistically to get 15 treatments?

 

[Uklawyer]

@David S - this person is getting 3 treatments per week. As I understand it, they provide the increased number of treatments due to the patient coming from abroad. I also believe that I asked the question and the doctor told me that 3 per week was possible (which confirms the position).

I will try to check whether there is any other information about treatment tailing off in the latter stages. I think this person is on their 3rd week, but I remember them saying they could, if required, stay until June - so the Math(s) might be a bit off.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

The longest you can stay is 90 days without a visa. And to avoid the 7 day quarantine you need to be fully vaxxed.

My flight is for April 21st thru May 31. Will extend this if needed, or shorten if I see no affect within 6 sessions.

I've also found out that they perform this same procedure at the military hospital in Seoul as well, for noise-induced tinnitus. I don't think the cause of tinnitus is a huge factor, since this seems to be a direct approach into the facial nerves.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much, but also wish I was leaving tomorrow.