Repeated Modified Nerve Blocks and Auditory and Non-Auditory Nerve Stimulation

[BrysonKingMe]

@BrysonKingMe, the head tinnitus that is gone, was it ever cricket like sound?

No.

 

[Bambam0]

So it completely killed a tone and permanently reduced the volume?

Did you end up receiving placenta derivatives in addition to Lidocaine?

Did he mention any other foreigners coming?

Because it's only been 6 months I would wager you have some good runway left for natural improvement with your reactivity!

 

[BrysonKingMe]

So it completely killed a tone and permanently reduced the volume?

Did you end up receiving placenta derivatives in addition to Lidocaine?

Did he mention any other foreigners coming?

Because it's only been 6 months I would wager you have some good runway left for natural improvement with your reactivity!

Just Lidocaine.

It seems to have killed the head tinnitus yea, really mainly focused in my left ear. Hesitant to say anything is permanent yet, but yes definitely got a reduction. Had a scary spike from ANC headphones on the way back on a 12 hour flight where I got a couple new nonreactive tones in my right ear, but those have faded. Could have also just been the lack of sleep and jetlag.

Thanks @Bambam0, needed to hear that. If that was gone I'd be "cured", I don't give a shit about my moderate tinnitus, just the fact that it rides over everything is super annoying. I get days off which makes no sense, keeps tricking me into thinking it's gone for good. Gonna take some shrooms here soon for the trauma I've been through this year, some Ketamine too. Maybe that will also reset some stuff lol.

Only experienced it with fans in the past, but that diminished within a year.

Down to get Susan Shore's face plastered on my ass. Complete silence would still be nice.

Also, Seoul is LOUD. I don't have hyperacusis but a lot of the sounds in the city were irritating.

 

[LostinTX]

Thank you for sharing your story and results with everyone!

So, you spent about $4700 for 16 sessions of treatment? Plus flight and hotel, so around $7000 total?

 

[aura]

. Had a scary spike from ANC headphones on the way back on a 12 hour flight where I got a couple new nonreactive tones in my right ear, but those have faded.

Is this the first time you experience a spike after using the noise-cancelling headphones?

I'm asking because something similar happened to me but I'm not sure if the headphones caused it.

 

[JPGL]

12 hours locked in a plane exposed to noise would cause a massive spike and more if you have tinnitus.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

So, you spent about $4700 for 16 sessions of treatment? Plus flight and hotel, so around $7000 total?

About right. Plus food.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

12 hours locked in a plane exposed to noise would cause a massive spike and more if you have tinnitus.

20 hours travel and 2 hours of sleep yes

 

[BrysonKingMe]

Is this the first time you experience a spike after using the noise-cancelling headphones?

I'm asking because something similar happened to me but I'm not sure if the headphones caused it.

Yea it was probably because of the lack of sleep and sleep cycle being off more than anything.

 

[GregCA]

12 hours locked in a plane exposed to noise would cause a massive spike and more if you have tinnitus.

Planes can be very loud. I use noise cancelling headphones, and they seem to do the trick.

 

[stepe1519]

Hi Bryson,

I haven't had severe tinnitus for very long (7 months). But I still want to give you my opinion.

Do I have any chance of going back to mild tinnitus every day?

I think anything is possible, I've heard/read quite a lot of stories, and in the end people always manage. Our brains are resilient, so it doesn't matter how you improve, but I'm sure you will, step by step

Do you think the panic attack triggered the pattern, and if so, could it ever break? It's been 5 months with no more than 3 days straight.

I was thinking the same when my tinnitus worsened overnight. I went to club with hearing protection and it just worsened immensely the second night after the nightclub, so I thought, that it must've come from something else (panic attack, alcohol, insomnia, brain disease, ...). But at the end of the day I'm sure now, that I got mine from the loud music, even though I wore hearing protection. At the time I was also under huge emotional stress.

But since then, nothing about my tinnitus changed (permanently) even though my head is now in a better place. So I'd expect tinnitus caused by panic attack to subside after getting your head straight.

I started benzos daily again the day after the panic attack. Could this be the cause of the pattern, or more likely the panic attack?

It sounds like you're looking for a reason to blame yourself about causing the tinnitus :/

It sounds to me like you made a huge step forward with the treatment, and the rest will probably come in time by itself

Cheers,
Steve

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

I went to club

No comment.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

No comment.

Don't need your negativity here.

 

[David S]

@BrysonKingMe, thanks for reporting back to us. Means a lot!

What type and how much of benzo are you using?

I have used two types, Zopiclone 10 mg for sleep and Oxazepam 30-40 mg. I stopped the shortest acting Zopiclone, and now only use 15-20 mg Oxazepam. I am somewhat better. I think the longer acting benzo is the preferred one. I think benzos can introduce bad sleeping posture or if you do not move around as much. I am also on an SSRI. It used to help but now I am not to sure anymore.

How do you use your sound generators? I set mine clearly audible in a quiet room but just barely noticeable outside. I have used them now almost for a month but it was hard to get started. It is hard to say but I think I am slowly getting better. 2-3 reasonable good days in a week instead of 1 out of 10. On those good days reactivity is far less. I can still not stand vacuums or hair dryers but low fan noise is ok.

The sound generators and other every day sounds still irritate me but I see that as a daily training. Hopefully my overexcited neurons will calm down a bit, but also that my brain can accept the remaining change.

I think all types of tinnitus will improve with time but then you get too confident and make a small mistake again. That happened to me 3-4 times over the last 9 years.

I would be careful trying to mask reactive tinnitus at all. I would not use headphones with or without ACN until you feel better. On an airplane situation I would use soft earplugs and Peltor earmuffs. Just to be sure.

 

[stepe1519]

No comment.

Are you an ENT? Because your comment is about as useful as my doctor's.

Don't need your negativity here.

I agree

 

[BrysonKingMe]

@BrysonKingMe, thanks for reporting back to us. Means a lot!

What type and how much of benzo are you using?

I have used two types, Zopiclone 10 mg for sleep and Oxazepam 30-40 mg. I stopped the shortest acting Zopiclone, and now only use 15-20 mg Oxazepam. I am somewhat better. I think the longer acting benzo is the preferred one. I think benzos can introduce bad sleeping posture or if you do not move around as much. I am also on an SSRI. It used to help but now I am not to sure anymore.

How do you use your sound generators? I set mine clearly audible in a quiet room but just barely noticeable outside. I have used them now almost for a month but it was hard to get started. It is hard to say but I think I am slowly getting better. 2-3 reasonable good days in a week instead of 1 out of 10. On those good days reactivity is far less. I can still not stand vacuums or hair dryers but low fan noise is ok.

The sound generators and other every day sounds still irritate me but I see that as a daily training. Hopefully my overexcited neurons will calm down a bit, but also that my brain can accept the remaining change.

I think all types of tinnitus will improve with time but then you get too confident and make a small mistake again. That happened to me 3-4 times over the last 9 years.

I would be careful trying to mask reactive tinnitus at all. I would not use headphones with or without ACN until you feel better. On an airplane situation I would use soft earplugs and Peltor earmuffs. Just to be sure.

I take about 0.5 mg of Clonazepam a day.

I agree with the headphones; my right ear is definitely a little louder than usual but that one is just a tone that I can only hear in quiet rooms. My left ear is insane.

I'm using the sound generators at the lowest volume possible, barely audible in a quiet room. My left ear reacts to literally everything except high pitch noises like crickets.

But like I mentioned, it's intermittent. Some days I have nothing, but the next day is always reactive.

 

[scotty03874]

Bryson, do you have any hearing loss?

 

[BrysonKingMe]

Bryson, do you have any hearing loss?

No I don't think so. I think my extended audiogram in 2016 showed a dip at 14500 Hz but I haven't gotten an extended one since.

 

[bikerbandito]

Hello all,

I've been meaning to post for a while now and I apologize for the delay. This will actually be my first ever post on the forum. I'm the other guy that went to Sirh's private pain clinic for treatment, before Bryson. I had 21 treatments there, and I returned to the United States on May 13th. I switched from Lidocaine injections to a mixture of Lidocaine and placental derivatives I believe at treatment #7.

Everyone at the clinic seems exceptionally kind, and I believe them to be sincere.

Unfortunately my tinnitus did not seem to respond to treatment as well as the published results. If I saw an improvement, it is minor. When I began treatment, I listed my overall T-VAS score as a 7. When I finished I might say it dropped to a 6. I do think I am focusing less on my tinnitus than I was 3 months ago when I began treatment, but I feel that's more due to habituation than anything else. My tinnitus is left sided and began on September 5th, 2021, from unknown causes. I also experience what I believe is called Tonic Tensor Tympani Syndrome. There is minimal pain, but I feel a physical fluttering in my left ear from many sounds. Even my own voice triggers it; i.e. at the end of each sentence i feel an annoying movement in my ear a split second later.

If there are any questions, fire away!

 

[DebInAustralia]

Just Lidocaine.

It seems to have killed the head tinnitus yea, really mainly focused in my left ear. Hesitant to say anything is permanent yet, but yes definitely got a reduction. Had a scary spike from ANC headphones on the way back on a 12 hour flight where I got a couple new nonreactive tones in my right ear, but those have faded. Could have also just been the lack of sleep and jetlag.

Thanks @Bambam0, needed to hear that. If that was gone I'd be "cured", I don't give a shit about my moderate tinnitus, just the fact that it rides over everything is super annoying. I get days off which makes no sense, keeps tricking me into thinking it's gone for good. Gonna take some shrooms here soon for the trauma I've been through this year, some Ketamine too. Maybe that will also reset some stuff lol.

Only experienced it with fans in the past, but that diminished within a year.

Down to get Susan Shore's face plastered on my ass. Complete silence would still be nice.

Also, Seoul is LOUD. I don't have hyperacusis but a lot of the sounds in the city were irritating.

I am so appreciative for your generosity to post. I know you get the despair here.

What I am curious about is this:

I have a central gas leak in my head, that doesn't respond somatically or to residual inhibition. I also have peripheral noise (more towards the ears) that can respond.

Was your tinnitus at all like this?

Do the doctors have any hypothesis as to why your head noise would disappear but not your ear tinnitus?

Don't need your negativity here.

No. The negativity is not welcomed here.

Let us remind ourselves, that Bryson and others reporting here are not in any way obligated to return to this forum. Let us be respectful and thankful that they are prepared to share their journey with us.

 

[DebInAustralia]

Hello all,

I've been meaning to post for a while now and I apologize for the delay. This will actually be my first ever post on the forum. I'm the other guy that went to Sirh's private pain clinic for treatment, before Bryson. I had 21 treatments there, and I returned to the United States on May 13th. I switched from Lidocaine injections to a mixture of Lidocaine and placental derivatives I believe at treatment #7.

Everyone at the clinic seems exceptionally kind, and I believe them to be sincere.

Unfortunately my tinnitus did not seem to respond to treatment as well as the published results. If I saw an improvement, it is minor. When I began treatment, I listed my overall T-VAS score as a 7. When I finished I might say it dropped to a 6. I do think I am focusing less on my tinnitus than I was 3 months ago when I began treatment, but I feel that's more due to habituation than anything else. My tinnitus is left sided and began on September 5th, 2021, from unknown causes. I also experience what I believe is called Tonic Tensor Tympani Syndrome. There is minimal pain, but I feel a physical fluttering in my left ear from many sounds. Even my own voice triggers it; i.e. at the end of each sentence i feel an annoying movement in my ear a split second later.

If there are any questions, fire away!

Thank you for your post. I am sincerely sorry to hear that you don't feel you benefited from the treatment. I hope you have recovered from jet lag. At least you gave it a go.

Did the doctors give you any feedback regarding what they thought is going on with you?

 

[SunshineSoul]

Can someone explain what you all mean when you say "head tinnitus"?

And also, reactive tinnitus means your tinnitus reacts adversely to everything?

The thing that feels hopeless about tinnitus is the lack of anyone caring about it. Here's a treatment that could help some folks but you have to literally put your entire life on hold, travel across the world, oh and likely spend your savings. Does anyone here have a doctor who can get in contact with this Korean clinic? It's sad that tinnitus is perhaps the most overlooked condition, to the point where people suffering from it have to beg someone to care, coupled with being our own doctors, researchers, investors and patients.

 

[InNeedOfHelp]

Can someone explain what you all mean when you say "head tinnitus"?

And also, reactive tinnitus means your tinnitus reacts adversely to everything?

The thing that feels hopeless about tinnitus is the lack of anyone caring about it. Here's a treatment that could help some folks but you have to literally put your entire life on hold, travel across the world, oh and likely spend your savings. Does anyone here have a doctor who can get in contact with this Korean clinic? It's sad that tinnitus is perhaps the most overlooked condition, to the point where people suffering from it have to beg someone to care, coupled with being our own doctors, researchers, investors and patients.

I have had head tinnitus for a period of 4 weeks. Luckily it went away (still blessed with multiple sounds and highly reactive tinnitus)

For me head tinnitus was the worst.

Centralized, you do not hear it in the ears but you hear and feel it in your entire head, especially once you lay down your head on your pillow. Like you are sitting in an airplane surrounded by sound.

I do feel this treatment has potential, but again we do not know which subgroups benefit. Too often we have dismissed treatments that showed little benefit in 1-2 people which might have benefited a much greater crowd. Even with Susan Shore device, OTO-313 etc you see only 50%-60% responders. We certainly shouldn't dismiss this straight away.

 

[DebInAustralia]

Can someone explain what you all mean when you say "head tinnitus"?

Tinnitus perceived to be originating in the head rather than the ears.

 

[DoesItStop]

Just Lidocaine.

It seems to have killed the head tinnitus yea, really mainly focused in my left ear. Hesitant to say anything is permanent yet, but yes definitely got a reduction. Had a scary spike from ANC headphones on the way back on a 12 hour flight where I got a couple new nonreactive tones in my right ear, but those have faded. Could have also just been the lack of sleep and jetlag.

Thanks @Bambam0, needed to hear that. If that was gone I'd be "cured", I don't give a shit about my moderate tinnitus, just the fact that it rides over everything is super annoying. I get days off which makes no sense, keeps tricking me into thinking it's gone for good. Gonna take some shrooms here soon for the trauma I've been through this year, some Ketamine too. Maybe that will also reset some stuff lol.

Only experienced it with fans in the past, but that diminished within a year.

Down to get Susan Shore's face plastered on my ass. Complete silence would still be nice.

Also, Seoul is LOUD. I don't have hyperacusis but a lot of the sounds in the city were irritating.

Hi Bryson. I've been following this thread as I've been on my own journey, eagerly watching how things worked out for you. I have a couple questions if you don't mind?

Sounds like you had a centralized head tinnitus and also a reactive tinnitus in you left ear, and the treatment stopped the centralized head tinnitus, correct?

Was your head tinnitus constant before, and do you think the treatment is more effective for treating that type of tinnitus?

How many treatments did you undergo before you noticed that tone being gone?

I had very mild tinnitus for 6 months, then took Amitriptyline for 10 days and now I have a centralized screaming tinnitus at about 11 kHz. I've spent the past 2 months living in Oahu as the only thing that seems to help is being outside with exterior noise/distraction. I'm contemplating going to South Korea, as Oahu is halfway there (I'm from the East Coast) and I could come back and see my kids in Oahu during this time.

I would rate my centralized tinnitus at a 9 out of 10, always constant in its loudness and sound quality. I've never had any acoustic trauma, just ototoxicity.

I know you don't have a crystal ball, but curious if you think that treatment could be helpful for my type of tinnitus as it sounds like it's similar to the tone that went away for you?

Thanks for all you've done to investigate the effectiveness of this treatment and relay info to so many of us.

 

[bikerbandito]

Thank you for your post. I am sincerely sorry to hear that you don't feel you benefited from the treatment. I hope you have recovered from jet lag. At least you gave it a go.

Did the doctors give you any feedback regarding what they thought is going on with you?

Not really. They just expressed disappointment that it didn't have the results we both hoped for. They also said they believe it may improve futher in the future (apparently several study participants reported slightly better T-VAS at the one year follow-up than at end of treatment).

 

[bikerbandito]

Hi Bryson. I've been following this thread as I've been on my own journey, eagerly watching how things worked out for you. I have a couple questions if you don't mind?

Sounds like you had a centralized head tinnitus and also a reactive tinnitus in you left ear, and the treatment stopped the centralized head tinnitus, correct?

Was your head tinnitus constant before, and do you think the treatment is more effective for treating that type of tinnitus?

How many treatments did you undergo before you noticed that tone being gone?

I had very mild tinnitus for 6 months, then took Amitriptyline for 10 days and now I have a centralized screaming tinnitus at about 11 kHz. I've spent the past 2 months living in Oahu as the only thing that seems to help is being outside with exterior noise/distraction. I'm contemplating going to South Korea, as Oahu is halfway there (I'm from the East Coast) and I could come back and see my kids in Oahu during this time.

I would rate my centralized tinnitus at a 9 out of 10, always constant in its loudness and sound quality. I've never had any acoustic trauma, just ototoxicity.

I know you don't have a crystal ball, but curious if you think that treatment could be helpful for my type of tinnitus as it sounds like it's similar to the tone that went away for you?

Thanks for all you've done to investigate the effectiveness of this treatment and relay info to so many of us.

Tinnitus is so frustrating. I remember this study in which Amitriptyline had been studied as a treatment for (and purportedly shown to improve) subjective tinnitus.

Efficacy of amitriptyline in the treatment of subjective tinnitus

 

[bikerbandito]

I think the question is more about why isn't this treatment a hotter topic inside Korea if they have been doing it successfully for twenty years.

My thoughts exactly. I was told while there that they have been using this procedure for ~20 years (and with over 400 patients), and overall the results were very similar to the published study results. I remember thinking before I began treatment "if this works as published and it has been around for over 20 years, it will be both amazing and a tragedy (that more people weren't aware of it)".

 

[bikerbandito]

That is how I read it as well.

"I'd rather wait until I complete the treatment to answer this" = I have not noticed a definite improvement in my tinnitus which cannot be attributed to other factors.

This was accurate.

I am all for optimism here, but my overall impression of the study, the treatment and the clinic is pretty poor so far. There are just so many red flags here. Besides that, Lidocaine injections for the treatment of tinnitus have been used for decades already.

I also find it weird how someone who is suffering from tinnitus for just 7 months thinks it is a good idea to fly all the way from the US to South Korea and spend thousands of dollars on this treatment. How did he even get in contact with the clinic? What makes this clinic so special?

I'm surprised you found this weird. After just a month with my tinnitus I would traveled to the moon and spent much more than I did in South Korea, if I had hoped that it would help (which I did). I reached out to the clinic via the contact e-mail in the original published study. What made this clinic special was the extraordinary results they published.

 

[David S]

@bikerbandito, good to meet you!

How would you best describe your tinnitus?Pure tone? Unstable? High pitched? Cicadas? Morse code? Hissing?