Rewiring the Brain

[Marlino]

I'm just wondering if anybody already tried the following:

There is the theory that tinnitus emerges if someone loses quickly a significant part of hearing. In the attenuated frequencies the brain tries to amplify and creates phantom sound instead. Even though this might not be evident in all cases its still one of the better theories.

What I consider now is to listen to white noise with amplified intensity at my lost frequencies. The idea behind is to give the brain input again at these understimulated frequencies in the hope it might forget about the tinnitus. Then gradually I will reduce the stimulation over a long period of time to simulate a natural age related hearing loss which seldomly lead to tinnitus.

It is similar to the usage of a hearing aid only amplifying your tinnitus frequencies, which could work the same way.

In my case I've found out that I've lost around -25dB to -30dB at 10.400Hz+-400Hz predominantly in my left ear. This matches pretty well my dominant tinnitus frequency I guess.
Acutally it took me 10month to figure this out.


I'm currently listening to a selfmade white noise track (very low white noise but 10.400Hz amplified around 30dB), which totally blocks my tinnitus and which is not uncomfortable.
Alternatively I could try to get a hearing aid, even though I still hear well. But it needs to be one with up to 12kHz obviously. Very expansive but probably the better option.

Anybody here who has experimented in the same direction? Or someone who has tried hearing aids just to treat tinnitus whith success?

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm currently listening to a selfmade white noise track (very low white noise but 10.400Hz amplified around 30dB), which totally blocks my tinnitus and which is not uncomfortable.

I advise you not to mess around with your auditory system as you are likely to make the tinnitus more intrusive. One of the worst things anyone with tinnitus can do, is to mask it completely so that it can't be heard. Make an appointment with an ENT department, and let the professionals carry out tests and make recommendations on how to treat your tinnitus.

Michael

PS: If you are listening to white noise through headphones, that is also not a good idea in my opinion.

 

[Rings-a-Bell]

Some people listen to white noise that has had their tinnitus frequencies removed.. notched out from it. You are doing the opposite. I have no evidence either way but it seems to me that your theory makes more logical sense.

 

[GregCA]

I'm currently listening to a selfmade white noise track (very low white noise but 10.400Hz amplified around 30dB), which totally blocks my tinnitus and which is not uncomfortable.

It's an interesting experiment. I'm curious about the outcome.
Good luck!

 

[wanda evans]

Please keep us updated on your results. My T is mostly in my left ear, about a 8.5 kHz hiss. I've found from self testing that I can hear 8.5 fine in my right ear but not in my left. I've had several hearing tests which show age related hearing loss, mostly in the 1.1 kHz range and I have hearing aids. Catch is the test only measured to 8 kHz and I imagine my Costco aids only work to that range too. I've wondered if I listened to notched sound that cut out 8.5 kHz in my right ear would the left T respond? I've read that sometimes T can be the brain's effort to balance the sound input from both ears and since I'm missing 8 - 8.5 kHz in the left the T is there to compensate.

 

[Marlino]

I advise you not to mess around with your auditory system as you are likely to make the tinnitus more intrusive

Well, I don't think that the auditory system can be so fragile as we think. We have an extraordinary illness which is very very rare.
In most situations the auditory system is quite robust.
Example: to have a fridge running at your home 50% of the time or an aircon 100% of the time is constant input to your auditory system but will not give you tinnitus.
I don't see how playing around with sounds at not dangerous loudnesses will do any harm.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I don't see how playing around with sounds at not dangerous loudnesses will do any harm.

Indeed. I wish you well.
All the best
Michael

 

[Marlino]

@wanda evans
All you write sounds logical to me.

I've heard annecdotes of people finding relief by using hearing aids.
But nothing reliable.

I guess it takes a year at least to erase tinnitus by compensating a hearing loss. So it's nothing you can try quickly.
Also I don't know how good hearing aids are at high frequencies, even if the claim to go up to 12kHz.

 

[Marlino]

Indeed. I wish you well but it something I would never do.

Thank you. It's pure desperation.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you. It's pure desperation.

I can understand desperation for I have been there having lived with tinnitus for 20 years. If you are able to be referred to ENT for treatment and possibly see a Hearing Therapist for counselling, the wearing of White noise generators, can help a lot. Please think about this.
All the best
Michael

 

[Marlino]

If you are able to be referred to ENT for treatment and possibly see a Hearing Therapist for counselling, the wearing of White noise generators, can help a lot.

I've seen ENTs already. Even in the university clinics. Literally of no help.

What I've found out is that the only difference between a bad ENT and a good one is, that the latter frankly admits that he doesn't know anything about it.

I asked for a noiser by myself and got a prescription, even though ENT was sceptical about it. I will go to an audiologist and check it out. But I've to say that pure white noise is no relief to me. Circada sounds work best and I cannot sleep without them, even though my t comes through it most times. It can be very distressing, since my tinnitus fluctuates slightly in pitch and loudness which makes me very nervous.

It is purely frustrating. I had tinnitus 10years ago already and managed it finally. This time I'm sceptical how to get back into an acceptable life, since it is so much more intrusive.

 

[Michael Leigh]

What I've found out is that the only difference between a bad ENT and a good one is, that the latter frankly admits that he doesn't know anything about it.

It is purely frustrating. I had tinnitus 10years ago already and managed it finally. This time I'm sceptical how to get back into an acceptable life, since it is so much more intrusive.

I know how you feel as my tinnitus got considerably worse in 2008. It took me 4 years to habituate for the 2nd time. My tinnitus fluctuates from complete silence to very severe. I take clonazepam when it is very severe usually for just one day, then I stop. Although your tinnitus will be different from mine. Have you tried setting the sound that you are listening to slightly below your tinnitus? Try not to mask (completely cover-up) the tinnitus, as this can make you notice it more when the masking sound is removed. Also, think about tinnitus counselling with a hearing therapist it can help reduce your anxiety.

I like your what you said:
"the only difference between a bad ENT and a good one is, that the latter frankly admits that he doesn't know anything about it". It did make me smile and I will remember it because you are right!

I hope that you get some relief soon.
Take care
Michael

 

[Vinnitus]

I'm just wondering if anybody already tried the following:

There is the theory that tinnitus emerges if someone loses quickly a significant part of hearing. In the attenuated frequencies the brain tries to amplify and creates phantom sound instead. Even though this might not be evident in all cases its still one of the better theories.

What I consider now is to listen to white noise with amplified intensity at my lost frequencies. The idea behind is to give the brain input again at these understimulated frequencies in the hope it might forget about the tinnitus. Then gradually I will reduce the stimulation over a long period of time to simulate a natural age related hearing loss which seldomly lead to tinnitus.

It is similar to the usage of a hearing aid only amplifying your tinnitus frequencies, which could work the same way.

In my case I've found out that I've lost around -25dB to -30dB at 10.400Hz+-400Hz predominantly in my left ear. This matches pretty well my dominant tinnitus frequency I guess.
Acutally it took me 10month to figure this out.


I'm currently listening to a selfmade white noise track (very low white noise but 10.400Hz amplified around 30dB), which totally blocks my tinnitus and which is not uncomfortable.
Alternatively I could try to get a hearing aid, even though I still hear well. But it needs to be one with up to 12kHz obviously. Very expansive but probably the better option.

Anybody here who has experimented in the same direction? Or someone who has tried hearing aids just to treat tinnitus whith success?

Isn't this similar to what has been tried in this study?

http://duteela.et.tudelft.nl/~wout/documents/hearing2012.pdf

a third group received music tailored to overcompensate for their hearing loss, associated with one (in presbycusis) or two notches (in audiometric dip) at the edge of hearing loss. Our data indicate that applying overcompensation to the hearing loss worsens the patients' tinnitus loudness

 

[Marlino]

@Vinnitus
Thanks a lot! I will check.

 

[GregCA]

Isn't this similar to what has been tried in this study?

http://duteela.et.tudelft.nl/~wout/documents/hearing2012.pdf

The full quote is:

Our data indicate that applying overcompensation to the hearing loss worsens the patients' tinnitus loudness, the tinnitus annoyance and their depressive feelings. No significant effects were obtained for the control group or for the compensation group.​

That seems to indicate that it's the overcompensation that is an issue.

 

[Vinnitus]

The full quote is:

Our data indicate that applying overcompensation to the hearing loss worsens the patients' tinnitus loudness, the tinnitus annoyance and their depressive feelings. No significant effects were obtained for the control group or for the compensation group.​

That seems to indicate that it's the overcompensation that is an issue.

Yes, you are right regarding that.

It seems they also tested with a compensation group however, I suppose that means they "fill in the gap" till the hearing loss equalizes with the neighbouring frequencies. In your quote it says that yielded no significant effects however. Of course Marlino's approach seems a little different (slowly letting the brain adapt to the hearing loss), so maybe that will yield different results. I'm interested to learn, if so. But as to Marlino's original question; "has something like this been tried before?", I guess the answer is a "yes", albeit in a perhaps somewhat different manner.

 

[Marlino]

It seems they also tested with a compensation group however,

Ive read the paper now and for the compensation group there is neither improvement nor benefit. Remarkable though, that overcompensation fails so impressively. This keeps me away from trying it myself.
So I will not do it further.

It is again a prove that tinnitus is incredibly hard to tackle.

 

[ruben ruiz]

Is this similar to notching?

 

[dd724]

there is a medicine that works! I have been using alprasolam .25mg - 4 times per day - has let me live a regular life for over 25 years. now the va will not give it to me anymore; saying it uis dangerous. I am age 71 and care about quality of the life i have left.