Sense of Responsibility of Corporate Contributors to the Tinnitus Risk

[Adaś]

I am not sure if this subject was raised before here, if it was I would be glad if you point me to the relevant thread. The reason I want to bring this up, is that I am simply disappointed or even outraged by the slow pace of the research on hearing disorders that is often stalled waiting for funding. This happens in the same time when main contributors to the tinnitus and hearing loss risks are breaking another profit and stock value records. Without providing concrete names, I am talking about corporations driving music industry, record labels, music equipment, instruments and consumer device manufacturers that actively promote headphone use, loud concerts, loud bars lifestyle. Not to mention the artists/musicians who build their careers risking their own and others health.

Like many of you, I learned about this cruel condition when I got it. It was too late, I was never warned, I was young and naive believing that widely available and advertised products and popular activities cannot do such a damage. But for some reason many consumer devices, headphones can hit your ears with 110 dB, rock concerts can deliver 120 dB for hours. I don't want to talk why they are arming this ticking bombs in our heads. This another convoluted subject. I want to know why they are unwilling to donate even small portion of their huge profits to find the remedy for this nasty hearing condition - tinnitus. Please correct me if the last statement is wrong.

But if this is true, only explanation that comes to my mind, is that they are trying to stay away from even suggesting that their billion dollar businesses may harm you. If they would donate anything under their names, even a single penny, someone could think they feel responsible. This could have unpredictable effects to their business in the end. But on the other hand, if the remedy existed, many of us would be actively listening to the music again, going to the concerts and buying their products. So their profits would raise. Or maybe they believe no remedy will be found, ever.

Also this looks very familiar to the tobacco industry remaining tight-lipped about the connection of their products to the lung cancer in 1970-ties. But hey, we are 50 years later now.

In the end current status-quo creates never-ending supply of new tinnitus sufferers, unaware, seduced by the promoted music lifestyle, which I agree is a great lifestyle until it gets too loud or too long and the extra price you need to pay with your suffering afterwards becomes overwhelming and unbearable.

In the same time we struggle, the research struggles to collect just few millions for clinical trials, which in the end delays the release of the remedy by months or years (of course, if this ever gets discovered).

Instead of just complaining, I believe we at Tinnitus Talk try to create this missing link between the industry and the research, not to mention the root cause. I don't know what would be the best way to start. But I would begin with politely asking these companies and their CEOs for help in our cause and pointing them to the research institutions that are in the need for the funds that would accelerate their efforts. I would like to know what do you think about this and if that would be a good approach, at least something better that just passively waiting for the others to deliver the remedy to us.

 

[Orions Pain]

I always wonder why so little artists & musicians actually speak on the issue. Contractural reasons?

DJ Zedd lost hearing in one ear Kehlani and Cardi B both tweeted about their ears ringing (Kehlani's tweet had since been deleted)

It amazes me how little artists actually speak on the issue. Are we just more sensitive than the average person? Something tells me no.

The only ones who have come out and mentioned it have seemed to be older rock stars like Ozzy and Neil Young, but what about all these younger musicians?

Something just doesn't add up and I have a feeling it's those behind the scenes major record labels that are behind it.

The thing is, i don't think bringing awareness about how fragile our hearing is would refrain people from doing fun, loud things. We would all do it, just with ear plugs. Those who want to take the risk still can, just like with cigarettes.

Every day I wake up wishing I was one of those lucky few who had a friend, or a course in school, or basically anyone tell them about the dangerous of tinnitus/hyperacusis and the amount of damage it can bring but unfortunately I didn't and now here I am and it was all preventable.

 

[Frédéric]

To apply a tinnitus/hearing loss/hyperacusis tax on each concert ticket/CD/DVD/mp3 bought? Why not?

 

[Adaś]

Every day I wake up wishing I was one of those lucky few who had a friend, or a course in school, or basically anyone tell them about the dangerous of tinnitus/hyperacusis and the amount of damage it can bring but unfortunately I didn't and now here I am and it was all preventable.

My wife has spent 12 years at music school. She does not recall anyone (teachers, friends) mentioning hearing loss problems not to mention tinnitus itself. But on the other hand now when I know about this, I can easily find numerous classical music performers that suffer from loud music even it was not amplified.

I have only recently bought a small Kickstarter synthesizer developed by an independent talented engineer and it had very remarkable warning about human hearing being very sensitive and susceptible to quick damage. I have never seen such warning before in any manuals of the consumer devices sold by known brands I own.

To me - it is a systematic disease of the whole music and consumer device industry that is utterly detached from the problem. We struggle to raise awareness and funds, when the industry is making great profits without any responsibility or even tiny sense of the responsibility.

I simply don't get this. I am also pretty disappointed that my post here gained such small attention, while I see such a great motivation of this forum's staff in lobbying politicians to spend public money on the research. Which is fine, but I have an impression that these activities are done as if tinnitus and hearing problems were just randomly occurring in us, unlucky ones without any connection to the consumeristic environment we live in. But this is not true. Many of us got it because we were buying products sold (headphones) and services provided (e.g. concerts) by known respectable brands and people that reach far more customers that we could reach with our awareness campaigns.

There must be some way to make them finally gain some sense of the responsibility for the problem they have created.

 

[Orions Pain]

My wife has spent 12 years at music school. She does not recall anyone (teachers, friends) mentioning hearing loss problems not to mention tinnitus itself. But on the other hand now when I know about this, I can easily find numerous classical music performers that suffer from loud music even it was not amplified.

That is terrible. I recently read a story about a woman who was professional cello player who got severe hyperacusis & tinnitus after playing for 34 years and within her story there was also no mention of anyone informing her of the importance of protecting your hearing.

Since getting tinnitus/hyperacusis, I've talked to a few people who either took music production courses in college and were informed, or health science classes where tinnitus was covered. Those were enough to get them to buy ear plugs. I know a ton of people who go to numerous festivals/concerts yearly, who have had Tinnitus or currently have it "mildly" and still chose not to wear ear plugs. It's beyond frustrating.

I understand that hearing damage is a very subjective thing, and some people can go to 30 shows a year for 10 years and come out with mild tinnitus, and someone can go to two and be left with permanent hyperacusis and tinnitus. But the fact that one night or one event CAN and is known to cause permanent damage and this conversation isn't being had more regularly is amazing to me.

But I very much so agree with your last paragraph. There needs to be more explicit warnings for consumers of these products and as I've mentioned, those who chose to ignore these warnings can be left to their own devices while those who do care to protect themselves have a chance to do so or have proper information. I reached the age of 25 without ever even hearing of tinnitus until I got it and found out what the ringing in my ear was due to google.

I really wonder what the next 20-30 years are going to look like as far as hearing health. I just can't shake this terrible feeling of being "one of the unlucky ones" but then part of me thinks is it REALLY that rare? I just don't understand how even performing artists who are around loud noises constantly (concerts, events, flights, parties, etc) are able to come out unscathed while people on here suffer from something as simple as an ear infection. Or are they suffering in silence due to contracts?

Out of the entire music industry why is it that only the older generation is speaking out about it? (Ozzy, Neil Young, etc - and it doesn't seem to be that their hearing issues are something they developed at their age).

I recently read that Justin Bieber has been diagnosed with Lyme - which is also often accompanied by hyperacusis and tinnitus. With his background in music - I won't be surprised if he gets afflicted.

 

[Sevv]

In theory, there is a large incentive to treat hearing loss and tinnitus. Hearing loss because it is a major contributor to dementia, tinnitus because it itself causes large societal costs (currently unknown though if it also promotes dementia).

From a legal/political point, there are multiple options how to deal with this problem:

1. Individual solution: Make concert organisers or bar owners responsible when people have their hearing damaged by loud music. This brings the problem with it that the victim has still to prove that they got hearing loss/tinnitus because of said concert/bar. This is something that can't really be avoided until we have a very easy way to measure hearing loss or tinnitus. But if there were a feasible way to do this, concert organisers and bar owners would make sure that they do not become responsible.

2. Do nothing, because of individual responsibility of those going to concerts. This only works to a degree since in general nobody uses hearing protection which will make others also less likely to use protection. Also lack of warning and awareness that hearing problems to not only include "I can hear slightly worse" (that was my assumption when I was at that concert, I didn't expect to get tinnitus and hyperacusis).

3. Societal solution: Leave concerts and bars as they are, but tax them or use general taxes to find a solution to the problem, since every year costs society a lot of money caused by loss of productivity due to hearing loss and tinnitus.

It does not make sense that society does nothing against hearing problems since there is such a large cost associated with it, and I'm not even talking about the suffering it causes (since that only sufferers themselves understand).

 

[Adaś]

1. Individual solution: Make concert organisers or bar owners responsible when people have their hearing damaged by loud music. This brings the problem with it that the victim has still to prove that they got hearing loss/tinnitus because of said concert/bar. This is something that can't really be avoided until we have a very easy way to measure hearing loss or tinnitus. But if there were a feasible way to do this, concert organisers and bar owners would make sure that they do not become responsible.

Why it so hard to enforce dB limit, just take NIOSH scale and exposure time and assume if you are exposing anyone from the audience to the noise exceeding the limits then you are immediately liable for intentional physical damage.

2. Do nothing, because of individual responsibility of those going to concerts. This only works to a degree since in general nobody uses hearing protection which will make others also less likely to use protection. Also lack of warning and awareness that hearing problems to not only include "I can hear slightly worse" (that was my assumption when I was at that concert, I didn't expect to get tinnitus and hyperacusis).

Isn't it what we have now? Why not get one step further and provide free access to drugs, arms, etc. and call it is individual responsibility to use them without causing harm. Why ruining someone's hearing is acceptable, but attacking someone with a knife is not?

3. Societal solution: Leave concerts and bars as they are, but tax them or use general taxes to find a solution to the problem, since every year costs society a lot of money caused by loss of productivity due to hearing loss and tinnitus.

This would make sense if there was a remedy, but as long there is none, the prevention should be priority.

It does not make sense that society does nothing against hearing problems since there is such a large cost associated with it, and I'm not even talking about the suffering it causes (since that only sufferers themselves understand).

Yes exactly this is it. It makes no sense at all. But I believe this comes the from lack of awareness what hearing problems truly are and false impression it does not apply to you... until suddenly it does.

 

[Contrast]

Are we just more sensitive than the average person

yes and that's why natural selection kills us off.

 

[Adaś]

I really wonder what the next 20-30 years are going to look like as far as hearing health. I just can't shake this terrible feeling of being "one of the unlucky ones" but then part of me thinks is it REALLY that rare? I just don't understand how even performing artists who are around loud noises constantly (concerts, events, flights, parties, etc) are able to come out unscathed while people on here suffer from something as simple as an ear infection. Or are they suffering in silence due to contracts?

Just reviving this old thread, that I wish was boiling with numerous posts expressing anger and desire to change the current status quo, but in reality I just got few responses. This makes me really sad realizing that our community is so passive and quiet, only looking for a cure or some miracle to happen, bumping FX-322 thread with barely new information, but completely indifferent to the current situation still creating new sufferers.

So what are the next 20-30 years going to look? Unless we (30 thousand) do something I highly doubt that there will be anyone willing to make next years to be any different.

 

[Orions Pain]

Just reviving this old thread, that I wish was boiling with numerous posts expressing anger and desire to change the current status quo, but in reality I just got few responses. This makes me really sad realizing that our community is so passive and quiet, only looking for a cure or some miracle to happen, bumping FX-322 thread with barely new information, but completely indifferent to the current situation still creating new sufferers.

So what are the next 20-30 years going to look? Unless we (30 thousand) do something I highly doubt that there will be anyone willing to make next years to be any different.

I'm not sure what we're supposed to do?

People don't care about hearing health because everyone has that "it won't happen to me" attitude. I've told friends about wearing ear plugs to concerts and many kinda just brushed me off. Hardly anyone gets hyperacusis. Some of the unclucky ones get tinnitus but it's usually mild and doesn't really interfere with life in any way. Some just lose hearing as they get older.

A very very small percentage of people get severe tinnitus which is why there is little initiative to spread awareness or find a treatment.