Should I Be Worried About Car Horns or Loud Motorbikes at This Stage?

I believe overprotecting the ears can be damaging psychologically and physically for some people with tinnitus, and especially if hyperacusis is present. One should try to prevent this happening for I see it too often in tinnitus forums, where some members are becoming paranoid over sound. I Thought I and others had put this debate to rest but it clearly hasn't.

Explain to me the process by which overprotecting is physically damaging. If tinnitus and hyperacusis arises from cochlear synaptopathy thus making the signal being transmitted from the ear to the brain 'noisy' does decreasing the input make the cochlear nerves degenerate even more? From my understanding tinnitus and hyperacusis are cause by manipulative neuroplasticity in response to hearing loss (often "hidden hearing loss").

I am not an expert in this field but do have the experience of living with very severe hyperacusis that was brought on with the onset of my tinnitus twenty years ago due to loud noise exposure. It was so severe; conversation with someone at times caused immense pain. However, it was completely cured in two years with TRT and having counselling with a hearing therapist. I wore white noise generators for 10hrs a day and used a sound machine throughout the night until morning for sound enrichment. My tinnitus had reduced to a very low level.

Some people believe hyperacusis cannot be cured and if treatment such as TRT works then it merely suppresses the condition. In the event of future loud noise exposure it will return and the condition will be worse than before. I believe it's up to the individual to take care of their hearing and not subject themselves to loud noise exposure. However, accidents do happen as in my case. I have previously explained in this forum that my tinnitus increased to very severe levels in 2008 due to noise exposure so won't go over it again. To my surprise the hyperacusis did not return and has remained the same till this day, completely silent.

This summer I went onto the Brighton Pier and into the arcade. The place was a hive of activity and many people were using the slot machines. Music was playing and this was mixed with loud laughter so everyone seemed to be having a good time. I had my sound level meter and also a sound App on my mobile phone. Just in case things got too uncomfortable I had my noise reducing earplugs with me that reduce sound levels by 18 decibels. This was a test and not something I normally do or recommend anyone else to try.

The sound level in that place remained constant at just over 100 decibels. My ears didn't feel uncomfortable nor did I feel any pain. I stayed at the venue for 30 minutes and then left.

The next morning my tinnitus was silent and I experienced no symptoms of hyperacusis.

Well that worked out for you. But your experience is individual. Others have put themselves in the same situation and the outcome has been disastrous. But it's all anecdotal. For me, I don't have the painful hyperacusis, but loud noises are just way too loud and distorted and they make my tinnitus worse afterwords.

I do not believe that it is a good idea for someone with tinnitus or hyperacusis (or both) to wear earplugs or noise-reducing earplugs with filters too often, because it's possible for the auditory system to become hypersensitive. In some cases it could make matters worse and cause a condition called phonophobia. This is literally having a fear of sound.
Again you are talking about a psychological condition. Tinnitus and hyperacusis are both physical conditions resulting from hearing damage.

I do agree with you that some people here go overboard with hearing protection, but I know when my body is telling me something is too loud, my thresholds have changed and if I go beyond that my tinnitus gets worse. So far the increases in tinnitus have only been temporary, but my tinnitus is bad enough as it is.
 
Here is a great article on this, notice the red text.

"Increased sound exposure can lead to setbacks. A setback is a sudden drop in sound tolerance as opposed to the gradual reduction in sound tolerance that occurs during overprotection. Setbacks are expected during recovery however they are an under-researched aspect of hyperacusis. Setbacks lasting several days are common. Setbacks lasting weeks, months, or years occur less often but can be deeply discouraging. Anecdotally, it seems setback duration and setback severity reduce to a degree in time. Setback duration and severity also seem to be correlated with hyperacusis severity. While there are over 2200 posts on hyperacusis setbacks in the patient forum on chat-hyperacusis.net, no academic papers could be found using a pubmed search. Some clinicians will inform the patient that sound levels below 85 dB (equivalent to noise from heavy traffic) are safe as they are unlikely to cause long-term hearing loss. While this is comforting and good to know, the relevance to setbacks is unclear as long-term hearing loss (often outer hair cell loss) is not suspected to be related to hyperacusis setbacks. Sound levels that trigger setbacks may be dependent on baseline LDLs and the particular subtype of hyperacusis (pain or loudness). There is a glaring need for research into setbacks to assess the consequences of underprotection. Setback thresholds, duration, severity, and frequency should be studied in relation to long-term recovery. Only then should maximum "safe" sound levels be defined."

I'm a web developer and I work with Drupal, the CMS that powers NASA and governments, so I have a lot of power at my disposition to collect data.

At the moment I'm still a little too crippled by this condition to really get anything done, but I'm getting better,
anyone interested in contributing to user input and feedback for research and surveys on this send me a PM.
 
@Alue
If you had been more polite in your request then I would have taken the time to answer your questions. You haven't had tinnitus long and in time you will learn.
I wish you well
Michael

Do you get offended any time someone disagrees with you or challenges something you say? I thought I was being nice, and I'm trying real hard to be nice now, but I'm sure I've long crossed that line by now.

Here's another example where you take offense when someone simply disagrees with you:

@Bobby B I normally don't respond to impertinence but on this occasion I will.
You have had tinnitus for a grand total of 5 mins and think you know everything. Well, I assure you that you don't.
Goodbye
Michael

None of it was actually directed at you, but rather the position you were maintaining.
I actually agree with most of what you say, but I don't think this one size fits all approach is good for such a heterogeneous disorder.
 
Do you get offended any time someone disagrees with you or challenges something you say? I thought I was being nice, and I'm trying real hard to be nice now, but I'm sure I've long crossed that line by now.

Here's another example where you take offense when someone simply disagrees with you:



None of it was actually directed at you, but rather the position you were maintaining.
I actually agree with most of what you say, but I don't think this one size fits all approach is good for such a heterogeneous disorder.
Alue, you have brought up one of Michael's glaring inconsistencies and tried to engage with him in conversation regarding logic, and medical data. Doing so will put you on his naughty list, and he will say that he will not reply to your negativity, and that negativity is what is causing your hearing condition to not improve, and that you can not be helped. He will then continue to hand out his bizarre mutated version of TRT/Jastreboff theories to those with conditions differing from his, which could potentially lead them to worsening their condition. Hearing trauma, hidden hearing loss, synaptopathy, etc are not of interest to him. He lives in a world where 8k audiograms are accurate indicators of hearing damage, and ENTs are all well suited to care for tinnitus sufferers. Don't overprotect your ears, but don't use headphones. Use white noise in ear generators, but don't use headphones. Don't ask why. It is not polite. He wishes you well (in a totally not passive aggressive way).
 
Guys, do we have to fight each other?

We already have tinnitus, we don't need more enemies ;)
I agree, we need truth and the willingness to challenge our own beliefs in order to further the knowledge of this condition. When someone like Alue, myself, and Bobby B present our own information and experience to Michael, and challenge his dogma, we are accused of being "inpolite" and treated with a very bizarre form of smugness. As an autistic person, I recognize that Michael probably also has severe autism, as he is unable to cope with his ideas being challenged, and perceives anybody who presents him with new information as being hostile.

He says he gave himself severe noise induced tinnitus with headphones, which was so severe he could not even bear conversation for 2 years, and felt his head was underwater, he took ginkgo biloba for the months leading up to his first standard audiogram, and since his audigram came back "normal", he believes he has above average hearing, and that ginkgo biloba healed his hearing. Yet he says he has severe to sometimes non existant T. Noise induced T+H like this is clearly symptomatic of hearing damage, yet when you mention something like synaptopathy (hidden hearing loss) he accuses you of being negative, and says "the audiologists are the professionals so he listens to them". His concept of these hearing issues are outdated (perhaps because he had T 20 years ago).

He seriously thinks people who's T worsens or does not get better is because they are "negative and can not be helped". What other condition would have such a cruel thing be said to them be acceptable. Very bizarre.
 
@Alue
I believe overprotecting the ears can be damaging psychologically and physically for some people with tinnitus, and especially if hyperacusis is present. One should try to prevent this happening for I see it too often in tinnitus forums, where some members are becoming paranoid over sound. I Thought I and others had put this debate to rest but it clearly hasn't.

Hyperacusis, As I See It.

Some members have asked for my opinion on hyperacusis as they are finding it increasingly difficult to live with. They want to know if there is a way of treating this condition so that their life can become a little easier? Or whether it can be completely cured? For a few it has become so distressing they have decided to only leave their homes when it's absolutely necessary. This is because of the fear of making the symptoms worse, by subjecting their ears to the hustle and bustle of everyday road traffic noise and other environmental sounds that we are all familiar with.

Reading some of the posts in this forum, one can easily see that certain people daren't leave their homes without first checking they have their earmuffs and an assortment of earplugs in various degrees of attenuation, in readiness for any potential environment that they happen to find themselves in. The cinema, nightclub, restaurant, or on public transport. If money is no object aspiring to custom made moulded earplugs for some is the way to go. It can bring the added assurance they will be getting the best hearing protection. Whether this is true or not doesn't really matter because it's what the person believes and this helps to give them that peace of mind which is something many of us strive for at one time or another.

The above may seem a little extreme until I tell you one member provoked a lot of discussion here, when he mentioned having the air bag in a car that he had just purchased disabled in case it was deployed in an accident. I suppose the thought of 170 decibels raining down on his auditory system and the possibility of his tinnitus and hyperacusis shooting through the roof was too much too bare and is more important than a potential life saving device. As strange as this might seem, others have discussed doing the same thing elsewhere on the Internet.

I am not an expert in this field but do have the experience of living with very severe hyperacusis that was brought on with the onset of my tinnitus twenty years ago due to loud noise exposure. It was so severe; conversation with someone at times caused immense pain. However, it was completely cured in two years with TRT and having counselling with a hearing therapist. I wore white noise generators for 10hrs a day and used a sound machine throughout the night until morning for sound enrichment. My tinnitus had reduced to a very low level.

Some people believe hyperacusis cannot be cured and if treatment such as TRT works then it merely suppresses the condition. In the event of future loud noise exposure it will return and the condition will be worse than before. I believe it's up to the individual to take care of their hearing and not subject themselves to loud noise exposure. However, accidents do happen as in my case. I have previously explained in this forum that my tinnitus increased to very severe levels in 2008 due to noise exposure so won't go over it again. To my surprise the hyperacusis did not return and has remained the same till this day, completely silent.

This summer I went onto the Brighton Pier and into the arcade. The place was a hive of activity and many people were using the slot machines. Music was playing and this was mixed with loud laughter so everyone seemed to be having a good time. I had my sound level meter and also a sound App on my mobile phone. Just in case things got too uncomfortable I had my noise reducing earplugs with me that reduce sound levels by 18 decibels. This was a test and not something I normally do or recommend anyone else to try.

The sound level in that place remained constant at just over 100 decibels. My ears didn't feel uncomfortable nor did I feel any pain. I stayed at the venue for 30 minutes and then left.

The next morning my tinnitus was silent and I experienced no symptoms of hyperacusis. I do not believe that it is a good idea for someone with tinnitus or hyperacusis (or both) to wear earplugs or noise-reducing earplugs with filters too often, because it's possible for the auditory system to become hypersensitive. In some cases it could make matters worse and cause a condition called phonophobia. This is literally having a fear of sound.

I used to counsel someone that had phonophobia like symptoms although she wasn't diagnosed. This person had hypercausis that gradually got worse and at every opportunity she kept away from sound. This got so bad going out the front door because of the noise was a problem. Her ears couldn't tolerate the sound of the microwave, dishwasher or the washing machine. She even complained of the sound of rain falling on her conservatory roof that was made of glass. Fortunately she has improved.

There is much discussion on this in the medical field from experts saying that the overuse of hearing protection isn't good and therefore discouraged as it will lower loudness threshold and I completely agree with this. I think if one isn't careful they can become paranoid over sound making their hyperacusis and tinnitus worse and I don't think it's healthy.

I believe the answer is to seek proper treatment. If TRT is unavailable then start using a sound machine by the bedside at night for sound enrichment. This usually helps to desensitise the auditory system. Try going out for long walks and getting used to everyday sounds instead of keeping away from them by staying at home. I don't normally recommend anyone to use white noise generators unless they are under the care of a hearing therapist. However, if your tinnitus is under control and you have habituated but experience hyperacusis, that some call: Reactive tinnitus. Then white noise generators could be the way to go. Two should be used to keep the auditory system in balance and set the volume level low, preferably below the tinnitus. This will help to desensitise the auditory system and treat the hypercusis.

Hearing protection is important and does have its place. If I am going to venues where I believe noise level could become loud then I have my earplugs with me. Night clubs, parties etc. I would always use them at the cinema although I haven't been to one in years. Reading some of the posts on this forum people say those places can be very loud.

When I use my petrol lawn mower or electric power tools for those DIY jobs around the home, I always use my ear defenders. I want to live life and enjoy it. Not to be living in fear of hearing a fire truck or ambulance siren coming towards me and I have to panic and quickly insert earplugs or reach for earmuffs to protect my hearing. I just think this is overkill.

Michael

PS: There is a condition called: vestibular hyperacusis. This is where the sound can cause a person to fall, lose balance or experience dizziness, and will probably require more professional help.
 
Hi Michael, your post has been very helpful for me. I am struggling with T which was caused by ototoxic medications since 2001 (I have drunk tons of painkillers for my migraine) , but I developed H in the last 2 years after an acoustic trauma. I think I am heading towards phonophobia and I don't go anywhere without my protection muffs. I started a psychotherapy 2 months ago and I hope to reduce my H and get rid of the paranoia and my extremely big fear of sounds. I will post about the results of my therapy. I really hope to get better and be able to give others some advice.
 
My t and h are much better now, I may write a success story soon. It DOES get better;)
Remember when you were very scared and unsure that your tinnitus and hyperacusis wouldn't improve? I kept tell you it would and so did many others on this forum. Good to hear that you're in a better place and hope things continue to go well for you. :)
 
Hi Sen: Some have somatosensory tinnitus which isn't always about their ears. Somatosensory T is often from head or neck trauma, manipulation of the teeth, jaw or cervical spine. Often they pain in their head, neck, face or shoulders and may have bruxism.

This type of tinnitus sometimes can see improvement from a dentist and/or physiotherapist. Problems with bone or muscular disorders of the face, teeth and neck. The teeth from dental work such as the placement of an implant (damaged nerves) should be considered. X-ray and CT scans are often needed. Many with this type of tinnitus often see changes in loudness and pitch.

Many with this type of tinnitus have hyperacusis.
 
If this is true, why are there cases of tinnitus and hyperacusis in patients with no measurable hearing damage?
By "hearing damage", I think Alue was thinking about "hidden hearing loss" i.e nerve synapse damage which according to Liberman and others is the most probable cause of T and H as it looks now in the research world.
 
If this is true, why are there cases of tinnitus and hyperacusis in patients with no measurable hearing damage?

There are many reasons that can cause t and h.
Burnout, stress, head injury, certain medications
 

Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!

Register

Register on Tinnitus Talk for free!

Register Now