Sleep Acts as Off/On Switch for Tinnitus

[Jeff H]

@Jeff

Does your t wake. You up or does it start slowly after waking?

Denny, after a day or two (rarely) without tinnitus, it will come back while I sleep later in the night around 4 to 5 am. I'll notice it's back when I get up to urinate. The tinnitus returning after 4 am is common with some other people. It's pretty loud when I get up to use the bathroom and quiets down some when I shower, shave, and eat breakfast, only to return to a louder state after I'm at work.

Again, my hope is that we keep talking until someone figures out or gets lucky on breaking the cycle. If we all have days without tinnitus, there MUST be a way to replicate these days during days that we are "supposed" to have the tinnitus!

If a PhD would take one of us during a clinical trial and study us closely for several days during tinnitus and non-tinnitus days, I would think they could tell what the difference is while ruling out other possible factors. It just seems they don't really care that cyclical tinnitus exists or will take the time to take advantage of what it may be able to tell us!

 

[just1morething]

Your cuts should be made based upon a % of the last dose. In other words, once the dose drops the cuts will get exponentially smaller. Otherwise you'll go too fast. This might increase the possibility of protracted T.

But there is only so much you can do with a pill cutter. My psych. halved the doses to taper in the past about every 2 weeks (which may be too fast?) I am somewhat countering the withdrawal effects by taking Remeron at the same time.

 

[yonkapin]

From what I've read you can taper pretty fast with Zolpidem because of it's short half life. Might be something about it in the Ashton manual, can't quite remember.

 

[Michael2013]

My T isn't really affected one way or the other by sleep anymore. In the beginning a few months ago it would make it harder for me to sleep and if I woke up I had trouble falling back asleep. That was all from the anxiety of it all. I even occasionally had these loud CLANGS! in the middle of the night just as I was starting to awake, they were a bit scary. Again, all anxiety attributed to my fear of tinnitus. It's not a problem anymore.

The only weird thing about my T that I still have (and really don't mind!) is that when I turn over so that I am laying with my good ear (other ear is deaf) against the pillow so I can't hear anything, my T shuts off immediately. Completely weird. It's like my brain knows I have never heard anything when I lay that way since I have always been deaf in my other ear, so it shuts off the T.

-Mike

 

[Haru]

I've had some cicada singing sounds in my right ear for as long as I can remember. Sometimes, when I just woke up in the mornings, I would feel something I could only describe as "I think I'm dead." I didn't think on what that was till my tinnitus changed character and became a nightmare two months ago: I'd felt dead because there was complete silence. Once in a million mornings, my brain would shut down T for a few seconds just when I woke up. Side effect: I suspect it also cut down on other sounds when it's at it, hahah. Maybe a delay in starting the hearing process. I wonder if that happens to anyone.

 

[Joss]

Most tinnitus sufferers will tell you that sleep is nearly always the trigger to reset one's tinnitus from quieter to louder or vice versa. I am becoming increasingly convinced that it is the type and power of dreams that decide whether the next day's tinnitus is louder or softer. The REM period usually experienced before we wake up is the key. If we have dreams in this period which draw on negative emotions and experiences such as fear, anger, sadness then these will trigger a " loud day". Conversely pleasant dreams full of positive emotions and experiences will have a very positive influence on our tinnitus and a good day will follow.

 

[Golly]

Most tinnitus sufferers will tell you that sleep is nearly always the trigger to reset one's tinnitus from quieter to louder or vice versa. I am becoming increasingly convinced that it is the type and power of dreams that decide whether the next day's tinnitus is louder or softer. The REM period usually experienced before we wake up is the key. If we have dreams in this period which draw on negative emotions and experiences such as fear, anger, sadness then these will trigger a " loud day". Conversely pleasant dreams full of positive emotions and experiences will have a very positive influence on our tinnitus and a good day will follow.

This is an interesting idea. It is certainly the case with me that sleep either starts or stops my tinnitus. It also seems to be the case that the last few hours of sleep are critical. I have never considered the dream content in those final hours as being relevant; but maybe there is something to this. On occasion, if I am agitated in the early morning, I take 1mg of Xanax, after which I calmly fall asleep. I typically awake noise free. Perhaps the medication brings about "positive emotions" that suppress the mechanism producing the tinnitus.

-Golly

 

[Leah]

I find sleep changes things around too, especially a drowsy 30 sec nap makes it peak.. After reading the posts here and seeing that it is common, I am surprised that all my docs acted like they never heard it before. So much information on these forums for research.

 

[Jeff H]

Given that I've had my 3-day cycling tinnitus for 5 years now, I can tell you I never expect anyone's to go away absent a miracle. I can't believe that yours actually stopped. It's interesting that people on this board have their theories as to what is causing their tinnitus but no one has attempted to explain an exact 3-day cycle, no one.
Can you imagine medical science not being able to explain why a person with any other disease would have it every Monday and Tuesday but not on Wednesday? Can you imagine medical science not figuring out why a person has Parkinson's disease on Mondays and Tuesdays but not on Wednesdays? Or why you can't move your legs on Friday's and Saturday's but everything is fine on Sundays? Not hardly. But because medical science can't actually see one's tinnitus, they don't care enough to figure it out.

 

[Leah]

Well said Jeff.

 

[Mark McDill]

@Jeff H Mine also turns off and on during sleep hours -- it's so odd. When it is off I cannot fathom what would ever turn it back on (not a clue); but sure enough, it turns on.
I find it fascinating (and a bit humorous) when I recognize my T is turning off as I go to sleep. It's at the very beginning stages of sleep when all somatic input is shutting down, yet, cognition is still slightly present (literally, the twilight zone) and I'll laugh cause my brain will realize 'hey, it's gone'; then the brain gears start again and I'm awake. Makes me laugh .
But why on earth does it turn on/off at night? I'm not knowing...

 

[EddyLee]

Hmm... my T started one day when i wake up. Like everyone here it has a sleep wake cycle too.
Usually when i wake up, right ear will be loud then slowly progress to low or none and then my left ear will start from low to medium but mostly low nowadays. If i had dreams, regardless of any dreams be it good or bad i will wake up with higher T. In some of my dreams i can even hear and aware of my T inside!

With so many of us having similar experience i think the researchers should really try to observe the brain changes in the sleep cycle and see which part of the brain that affects T. If they can identify the brain area then a treatment to simulate the same effect can be develop. With today's brain scan and recording technology such observation can be easily done!

 

[jazz]

But why on earth does it turn on/off at night? I'm not knowing...

Sleep is usually a reliable off switch for my tinnitus. Not totally off. I'm never tinnitus free. But I revert back to baseline, which is probably a 1-2 out of 10. Totally ignorable.

I also cycle. My cycle tends to be two good days and one bad. Once it was four good days in a row. I thought I was cured!

Sleep does serve as a reset for many metabolic processes. I guess tinnitus falls into this category--but not for everyone. Some people awake predictably to loud tinnitus, and it fades during the day.

 

[Thongjy]

See my note to you below.

Hi my skype account is thongjy

 

[hrmpf_]

Hi everyone,

Regarding this on-off switch during sleep, is there anyone who has tried seeking help from a sleeping point of view? I have been to several medical professionals (primary health care, ENT doctor, audiologist, psychologist) with my T problem but no one seems to have heard of this sleep-triggered T. I am thinking that maybe I am looking at this from the wrong angle, that I have been looking for treatment for the symptom and not for the cause. Maybe I should try finding someone who specializes in sleep? Has anyone here done that, maybe had their brain activity studied during sleep?

Kristina

 

[linearb]

The best medical science in the world barely understands what sleep does and how it effects the brain in the very short term. Long term effects of sleep deprivation are slightly better understood.

I think the best thing we can do is get the most consistent, high quality sleep we can, and then not obsess about it. Tinnitus waxes and wanes. So does arthritis. So does MS. None of that is well understood. Cicardian rhythms are not especially well understood.

 

[Thongjy]

I strongly think it has a link to the different stages of the sleep.

Examples like deep sleep, etc.

I realised when I wake up at different points of time during sleep it can be louder or completely non existent T and that is because I am waking at diffferent stages of my sleep.

Research more on different stages of sleep and we might find the answer.

 

[Bastiaan]

Hi everybody, I have tinnitus since 2010 , and like many of you, it is always switched on with a nap or in the last few hours of the sleep. I now have discovered that it may have something to do with the dreamsleep. I have been a cannabissmoker for a couple of years [every evening ] and when you smoke everyday after a while, you don t have dreams anymore. My tinnitus in that period of time was not to bad with many good days [ altough after a nap it could be bad] I am in a testing period now because i have stopped smoking weed [ very difficult withdrawals ] since october 2015. The dreams have come back .Many very intense vivid dreams ! I have many switched on bad days and a couple of good days after 3 months of stopping. The first month after stopping was the best for my tinnitus with many good days and a couple of bad days. [ It was a sleepphase between no dreams and sometimes a light dream] strange is nt it ? I will go on with my test and see if the intense dreams will be less and how my Tinnius will react on this... Greetings Bastiaan

 

[Dan Seg]

Are there other sufferers out there whose tinnitus is literally switched on and ( mercifully) off after a nights sleep? Does anyone have any theories about why this should be? I can go to bed at night after a day almost completely free of tinnitus and wake to an angry raging torrent of hissing or vice versa. I initially thought it was tied in with diet so experimented with cutting out red meat,alcohol, dairy, etc, etc and found no link. However something occurs during sleep to dramatically alter the pattern of tinnitus and I feel that unlocking what this is may hold the key for to permanent relief.
Joss

DanSeg:: it does the same for me , I goto sleep with a bad hissing and pressure in my ears,
with 2 x 25mg Seroquel and soft music,
some morning I wake up with much lower hissing around 6AM,
some other morning I get LOUD hissing at 5:00AMH and it stays for all day making me crazy ..

:O((

 

[Martin69]

Most tinnitus sufferers will tell you that sleep is nearly always the trigger to reset one's tinnitus from quieter to louder or vice versa. I am becoming increasingly convinced that it is the type and power of dreams that decide whether the next day's tinnitus is louder or softer. The REM period usually experienced before we wake up is the key. If we have dreams in this period which draw on negative emotions and experiences such as fear, anger, sadness then these will trigger a " loud day". Conversely pleasant dreams full of positive emotions and experiences will have a very positive influence on our tinnitus and a good day will follow.

I think the same. My is not affected by length of sleep (I can sleep 9 hours and have a horrible day afterwards), but by my dreams or quality of deep REM sleep. If I have negative dreams, I wake up in the middle of the night with loud T. Sometimes, in the light sleep phase, I wake up with very low or no T.

Sleep highly effects my T. I have now four days in a row with milder, bad, milder, bad T. My T stays the same all day long.

So it would be interesting finding out what effects the neurons to fire less on one morning (milder) than others (louder). Unfortunately I think we have not much influence on this, haven't we?

 

[Tony Phylactou]

Are there other sufferers out there whose tinnitus is literally switched on and ( mercifully) off after a nights sleep? Does anyone have any theories about why this should be? I can go to bed at night after a day almost completely free of tinnitus and wake to an angry raging torrent of hissing or vice versa. I initially thought it was tied in with diet so experimented with cutting out red meat,alcohol, dairy, etc, etc and found no link. However something occurs during sleep to dramatically alter the pattern of tinnitus and I feel that unlocking what this is may hold the key for to permanent relief.
Joss

If I have a good long sleep, then when I wake up at any time often my T is low hardly noticeable. If I get up then it stays quiet all day long. If I try to get even an extra 5 minutes sleep, it starts ringing again.Same thing happens if I take a five minute nap in the afternoon.Very peculiar situation.

So this is my solution. As soon as I wake up,I do not spent anymore time in bed.I get up, and then I have a great day. I succeeded in doing it for 3 days continuously.On the fourth day I woke up 2 am and I could not possibly get up so early.

So the answer might be to find a way to sleep continually for 6 hours or more.And that should keep the T away.
Possible explanation. If you wake up after less than 2 hours sleep which is non REM sleep your T starts up. If you wake up after more than 2 hours sleep which is REM sleep your T should not start up.

 

[Tony Phylactou]

Whilst I agree that having a really good nights sleep makes it more likely that tinnitus will be less the next day, its not a hard and fast rule. I can have a good nights sleep and still have it raging in the morning or have a patchy night and have relative peace in my ears the next day. It may be more tied in with dream sleep or periods of sleep with REM or teeth grinding rather than the length of sleep I can wake at 4 in the morning with my tinnitus still as quiet as the previous day but then go back to sleep and wake at 7 to tinnitus at full volume. This is why even a quick nap will very often trigger a rise in volume. Whatever, the culprit is the sub conscious mind and the brain either "tuning" tinnitus back to the forefront of the conscious mind during sleep or simply that those sensitive nerve endings become over active when the conscious mind is switched off. What I need is a brainwave to come up with a solution to controlling my brain waves!

In My opinion we should have long uninterrupted sleep I have had 8 hours of sleep with several interruptions and T was horrible.I had 6 hours of continual sleep and I was fine.The solution is FIND A WAY TO SLEEP WITHOUT INTERRUPTIONS ,maybe a pill meditation or something else.

 

[Florida John]

Yesterday I woke up out of a very deep sleep, probably the deepest sleep I have had in months or maybe years and my T was almost non-existent for the entire day. I mean, I couldn't hear it under normal circumstances. It was as good as gone. It had never been that low before. Of course it is back today but still fairly low.

I know this was a long time ago,,,but did you do anything fancy to get that good rest,,,,like take something?

 

[butterfly75]

I have the same experience. And then when the smallest sound occurs nearby it goes back to its usual volume

 

[JurgenG]

It stays quiet here for max an half hour, this gives me the opportunity to fall back asleep, partly feeling cured. Which is a blessing. This is not always the case though.
But I feel like these moments are getting longer and longer, hopefully they'll stay 24 hours soon.

 

[Tony Phylactou]

Are there other sufferers out there whose tinnitus is literally switched on and ( mercifully) off after a nights sleep? Does anyone have any theories about why this should be? I can go to bed at night after a day almost completely free of tinnitus and wake to an angry raging torrent of hissing or vice versa. I initially thought it was tied in with diet so experimented with cutting out red meat,alcohol, dairy, etc, etc and found no link. However something occurs during sleep to dramatically alter the pattern of tinnitus and I feel that unlocking what this is may hold the key for to permanent relief.
Joss

I suspect it does not have anything to do with how long you slept or not.At one time I went to bed T free had no sleep at all ,next day I was T free all day to .I suspect that T is switched on or off if you wake up during a certain stage of sleep.There are 4 non REM stages and an REM stage.Which one is the culprit is anybody's guess.

 

[Tony Phylactou]

Are there other sufferers out there whose tinnitus is literally switched on and ( mercifully) off after a nights sleep? Does anyone have any theories about why this should be? I can go to bed at night after a day almost completely free of tinnitus and wake to an angry raging torrent of hissing or vice versa. I initially thought it was tied in with diet so experimented with cutting out red meat,alcohol, dairy, etc, etc and found no link. However something occurs during sleep to dramatically alter the pattern of tinnitus and I feel that unlocking what this is may hold the key for to permanent relief.
Joss

I have just thought of an idea. I will start recording every night the time I went to bed,and the time I actually woke up and whether I was T free or not. If there is a pattern for example after 6 hours continual sleep I was T free, I will set up my alarm clock to wake me up after 6 hours everyday.I know it's a shot in the dark but you never know.And it would solve the mystery of why sometimes I wake up T free and some not.

 

[JurgenG]

I suspect it does not have anything to do with how long you slept or not.At one time I went to bed T free had no sleep at all ,next day I was T free all day to .I suspect that T is switched on or off if you wake up during a certain stage of sleep.There are 4 non REM stages and an REM stage.Which one is the culprit is anybody's guess.

How did you get T?

This morning I woke up in the middle of a phase I think, my T was way louder. I slept again and an hour later it was better.

 

[Tony Phylactou]

I have just thought of an idea. I will start recording every night the time I went to bed,and the time I actually woke up and whether I was T free or not. If there is a pattern for example after 6 hours continual sleep I was T free, I will set up my alarm clock to wake me up after 6 hours everyday.I know it's a shot in the dark but you never know.And it would solve the mystery of why sometimes I wake up T free and some not.

 

[Tony Phylactou]

First day results.Went to be at 11 with high T Woke up 4.15 T almost zero .Total hours of sleep 5.15. It tried to get out of bed but I felt so sleepy I decided to stay in bed but try not to sleep.At the end I slept for may be less than half an hour and T got loud again.
So I still suspect that when I wake up during high sleep T is off,If i wake up during light sleep T is switched on again.
I will carry on recording my sleep time and awake time for quite a few days and seee what comes out at the end.