Some Questions About Hyperacusis
- Thread starter Jacob83
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You must be related to Mith. Are you neighbors? You are conflating life expectancy with efficacy of therapies associated with H? This is somewhat analogous to Mith believing Jesus Christ is God and since Jesus existed so does God?...lol. What level schooling I am speaking to? You not only don't sound like a scientist but I wonder if you passed algebra.
Maybe we should relate H to the largest economy in the world? Or what country won the greatest number of Olympic medals in last year's Olympics? Or the price of tea in China?...lol.
And yet, more people come to the US for life threatening surgery than any other nation. Same is true for graduate school.
Yes, the US health care system is excellent for a small percentage of rich people, no doubt about it.
I'm conflating nothing, I was just reacting to your arrogance of saying to people you know nothing about that just because they do not live in the US (you know that many people in the world are fine not being US american ?), they are from the 3rd world (and hence suggesting you to show a bit of humility). But because of your confused mind, you totally missed the point (as the rest of your post clearly shows).
I know Mithrandir via internet only, but it is true we live in the same country (but we are not neighbours by any way) ... And regarding my level of schooling, I'm sorry if I'll sound quite vain, I didn't want to but since you aggressively questioned it, you let me no other choice so here I go : I hold a PhD in quantitative sociology and am the author of several publications (some of them being published in international peer-reviewed journals). I also teach for both graduate and undergaduate students about social stratification and inequality, and about quantitative analysis in social sciences as well. Besides those academic activities, I also had some work experiences in evaluation and counselling for public institutions (quality of curricula of university, demographic and econometric forecasting of human ressources needs for public education departments).
Finally, I'm a french citizen (a country that, due to your ignorance, you would probably classify into the thrid world), and I also hold the Swiss citizenship (a country far more advanced and developped than the US)
Sen,
Its extremely off topic to dissect the US health care system. We could have a long debate comparing it so other advanced countries including neighbors in the Canada and China etc. Previous to the affordable health care act, any uninsured citizen and likely an illegal citizen could walk into...or be carried into any top hospital and if they needed $200,000 open heart surgery to save their life they would receive it. This all got rolled into the cost structure of medical insurance in the US for all. The affordable health care act attempts to insure those that do not contribute to the GDP. 40% of Americans pay no taxes. Some countries in northern Europe pay a 50% tax rate versus a 25% tax rate for an American citizen making $90,000 year. There is no free lunch in any society. There is a reason why so many want to move to America and so many that live here want to stay here.
Obamacare will be retooled under the Trump administration to lower costs and reduce the cost burden from the middle class who are now paying for free health care for the poor.
What you describe wouldn't happen if America stopped spending such a high amount of the tax money in military operations.
They seriously spent 4 billion dollar for the new presidential plane.
Sorry to insult your nation Philemon. But you are conflating if you agree with Mith who is one of the most derisive and misguided members of this forum. And further sorry to throw your PhD in sociology under the bus. This explains your lack of comprehension I suppose but you should have at least a high enough IQ to keep up with discussion. I mentioned I am a scientist. You aren't. Perhaps a social scientist with low comprehension. I have a PhD in Physics and a MS in Mechanical engineering. No we don't think alike. Sorry to sound arrogant. But when a piss ante comes on the forum and denigrates others such as Michael who has studied and forgotten more about tinnitus and hyperacusis here, I am going to speak out. Its ok to disagree. But it should be done with civility. If you want to join in than have at it. If you want to seek a higher plane of discourse, then keep it to the subject at hand.
Is this the dummy forum? Where do you people come from?...lol.
Here's a news flash for you VRZ. America is going to spend a lot more on their military under the Trump administration and you should thank your lucky stars because we will likely end up defending you.
Since you are so well educated, would it be a stretch to assume that you are attempting to be ironic with your failure to utilize extremely basic grammar and punctuation in your writing?
No irony Sen in what I write. Rather the irony exists in what you write, your penchant aka preoccupation with style aka syntax over substance. Sorry to criticize but this pettiness is typical of low comprehension. It is transparent obfuscation of not being able to contribute in a substantive manner. I hope that makes sense.
Consider substance Sen...perhaps even getting back to the conversation of hyperacusis.
You mean like when you insulted Mithrandir's language barrier?
I suggest learning to write at at least a high school level before expecting anyone to believe your credentials, or even to take you seriously.
I've spoken to you about hyperacusis/tinnitus/hearing damage before, and you point blank made up facts about it, so I'm reluctant to believe that another conversation with you about that topic would be productive.
I'd argue this is wrong. I did CBT, not classic TRT... and without having some kind of noise (I used general fuzz) during the day I'd not have been able to get my work done. This would have made my anxiety WAY worse. At night I used a few apps on my phone and fans to be able to sleep - by the TRT "mixing level" protocol. Without that sleep, I'd have been way worse.
I tend to think the most important element is an understanding of what is happening to you, the skills to cope with it, and of course, the most important part - TIME. My anecdotal report is that sound therapy was absolutely helpful in getting through the worst of it. It of course has zero effect on symptoms.
There is no proof Jesus existed at all and even less that he was a miracle worker.
Sorry to read again that you totally miss my point : I was not arguing at all about the Mithrandir/Michael's debate, but about your arrogance regarding the so-called 3rd world and when you dispissed someone because of his english skills.
You are further arrogant in thinking that because you have a PhD in Physics you are a scientific, sociologist are also scientist, didn't you know that ? Then you should open your curiosity to the many other disciplines than physics that are science indeed.
And anyway, I don't see how your PhD in physics is helpful here, it is by no way related to the Mithrandir/Michael's debate, it's just another confusion from yourself (it makes a lot of confusion for someone who claims to be the scientist here)
Sen, we just don't have any common ground. We are light years apart. You have the audacity to criticize my grammar and yet you don't concede that Mith is not writing in his native language and his grammar is comparatively poor.
If you want to bring up areas we disagree than don't simply cast wide aspersion. Call me out if you disagree on a given point.
So let's reset the conversation. The following is what Mith wrote that started this thread on its downward spiral:
There is no "cure" for Hyperacusis. You can pray for natural recovery. There is no evidence behind sound enrichment, that's just the phantasm of one guru followed by sheeps...
Hyperacusis is not a disease. Hyperacusis is a symptom and it can come from different reason (noise injury, fistula, SCDC, TTTS, autism, etc...).
You have to find first the cause of the hyperacusis to try to solve the problem.
My response:
If the thesis is that all hyperacusis is due to the mechanisms Mith posted, then lets consider a subset of those with hyperacusis, when their hyperacusis improves greatly with time. Why is it if a noise injury, a fistula, SCDC etc are intractable and the basis for hyperacusis?...how is it hyperacusis could possibly improve which it does for many individuals? If injuries and abnormalities are immutable fact as Mith writes? It may have something to due with the neuroplasticity aka adaptation of the brain. Call it desensitization to sound. How could this be affected? Stands to reason that this unlearning the threat of noise due to damage to the hearing apparatus by focusing on alternative sound frequencies could retrain the brain and alter neuroplasticity....in spite of what Mith believe are core contributors to hyperacusis. He left out the biggest contributor of all, the processing of sound. This makes Michael assertion not fiction but closer to fact. So Mith is wrong. It is possible that there can be underlying deficits to the hearing apparatus but through TRT, the brain can be retrained to compensate for these deficits which can ultimately improve H.
Ok Sen, now its your turn to respond. Explain where you believe I am wrong.
How about this? I apologize for insulting you. I came to this thread to defend Michael because I agree with him and disagree with Mith. Because of the rancor here, I have redirected conversation in response to Sen. You are a well educated man. Please respond to my defense of Michael's post that TRT can be positive to reduce H and why.
No, I agree, his writing is atrocious, but he has an excuse. English is not his first language, as it is yours, nor does he boast of his level of higher education, as you do.
I reject this thesis. I do not agree that all hyperacusis is due to the mechanisms that Mithrandir has posted. Please don't interpret my criticism of you as agreement with Mithrandir.
Exposure desensitization is very real, in my opinion, although the extent to which it is effective is not only unknown, but probably exaggerated. If you stretch enough to call it a "cure" you are likely to pull a muscle.
Sorry Sen, but you are equivocating. In fact, you are doing this to save face and I am merely calling you out for your charade. Your partly pregnant stance exposes you agree more with me and won't say you do. Yes, the term cure is an absolute term. There is actually a range of normalcy...likely a normal distribution. Suffice to say through TRT, the stigma of H can in some cases be eliminated. People can live their lives normally.
This comports with what Michael stated and is in opposition with what Mith wrote as I explained why.
I don't recall ever stating that I disagreed with you on this topic, but thanks for the redundancy.
This is now the second conversation we've had that ended in you creating a straw man to argue with. Quite the scientific and rational thinker you turned out to be.
My aim was not to respond to your defense of Michael's post about TRT, but to your arrogance (Mithrandir may have been crude in expressing his views, but not arrogant, not saying bad things like "you're from the third world" or this kind of bullshit).
But if you ask my opinion about TRT (regarding hyperacusis but also tinnitus more generally), I would just mention that the empirical evidence for its beneficial aspect are very scarce to say the least (just take a look at the several studies published in The Lancet about that, or some cochrane reviews that are easily available on the internet).
Strong empirical evidences are key, and they are missing. Hence, arguing about one anecdotal testimony is a bit meaningless to me (Michael's success could as well be spontaneous, simply happening with time passing by) and I'm generally not so impressed nor curious when one person claims "this things has improved a lot my disease/symptoms". And the all TRT thing sounds more like a nice narrative rather than a true rationale.
Further, the problem with TRT is it has kept getting a lot of research funding (like several projects for hundreds thousands dollars) even if at time there were no preliminary promising results from smaller studies, and even if many of those big studies hasn't even been published (there's a thread in TT about that), so the question is : where has gone all this money. The same is true about clinicians who got (and still get) a lot of cash for decades from their desperate patients, with very mixed results (see points above). I think both the tinnitus and the hyperacusis community are quite angry about that, and reasonably think that if this money would have been given to other researcher working with different assumptions, models and methods, they could have get more relief right now (but unfortunately, science is not always it should be, and some mafia are sometimes too powerful in this little world, monopolizing the funding and wasting it, I also know it from personal experience)
I personally have no opinion about the relevance of the kind of causes for hyperacusis that Mithrandir mentionned (even if I suspect they could well correspond to new research direction about hyperacusis like the one now explored by research network http://hyperacusisresearch.org/ and that anyway they are probably more sound that the failed-TRT). But basically, the big picture indicates that TRT has failed, so what could be more natural than people suffering from hyperacusis starting to wonder about other possible treatments, related to other conception, possible causes and understanding of hyperacusis may really be ? (and unfortunately, it is even more underresearched than tinnitus)
@stophiss
HI Stophiss.
You are a worthy contributor to this forum.
It is unfortunate that some people who I regard as undesirables are able to gain access here, for I thought this place was somewhere that people could discuss tinnitus and hopefully help each other. This is still possible; except there are times a few make this difficult, because their only purpose is to be confrontational and argumentative at every opportunity. They are unable to give any constructive or positive advice to anyone seeking help. And therefore, prefer to post negative comments and denounce every treatment for tinnitus whether helpful or not.
Perhaps they don't care and if this is the case that makes them very selfish in my opinion. If they ever suffered from loud intrusive tinnitus, then they would know how debilitating it is, and would stop and think about what they are doing. Some people at Tinnitustalk just read messages and don't post. They must be in some distress otherwise why would they join? Imagine for a moment how they must feel reading some of the posts in this thread and others on this forum. I am not referring to occasional bickering between members, for this is bound to happen with such a large audience that Tinnitustalk attracts. I am talking about blatantly showing contempt for recognised treatments used in the medical field to help people with this condition.
One is entitled to their opinion but where necessary prudence should be applied as in this case. Two people sent me private messages last week, saying they felt worse after reading the negative comments about two tinnitus treatments, one is mentioned in this thread. The members in question, had never tried the treatments but were quick to post website links in the forum to support their claim. The people that PM'd me felt there was no hope.
Yesterday, someone new to tinnitus said to me in the forum, that TRT is not available in their country what can they do? I suggested to print my positivity posts that are in my article Tinnitus, A Personal View. I also advised to print the positivity posts from other members that post here as I believe them to be helpful. Once this is done refer to them regularly. Over time It will help them to look at their tinnitus and life with a more positive outlook. I believe the posts to be a form of counselling.
Reading them on a monitor is fine but once read they are soon forgotten. For the message to sink in and be effective they need to be read often. In a similar way that a person would see a Hearing Therapist for tinnitus counselling on a regular basis. I then suggested to use sound enrichment at night using a sound machine. Professor Jasterboff has mentioned this in his TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy book) I have had TRT twice in twenty years and found it to be helpful.
It wasn't long before the advice that I was giving to this person was challenged by another Tinnitus talk member, which I felt were unwarranted. I explained to this member I do not wish to engage in a long drawn out conversation and it didn't go any further. It is a shame that a few people at Tinnitus talk repeatedly carry on in this selfish way and have no consideration or respect for others that come here for help.
Michael
HI Stophiss.
You are a worthy contributor to this forum.
It is unfortunate that some people who I regard as undesirables are able to gain access here, for I thought this place was somewhere that people could discuss tinnitus and hopefully help each other. This is still possible; except there are times a few make this difficult, because their only purpose is to be confrontational and argumentative at every opportunity. They are unable to give any constructive or positive advice to anyone seeking help. And therefore, prefer to post negative comments and denounce every treatment for tinnitus whether helpful or not.
Perhaps they don't care and if this is the case that makes them very selfish in my opinion. If they ever suffered from loud intrusive tinnitus, then they would know how debilitating it is, and would stop and think about what they are doing. Some people at Tinnitustalk just read messages and don't post. They must be in some distress otherwise why would they join? Imagine for a moment how they must feel reading some of the posts in this thread and others on this forum. I am not referring to occasional bickering between members, for this is bound to happen with such a large audience that Tinnitustalk attracts. I am talking about blatantly showing contempt for recognised treatments used in the medical field to help people with this condition.
One is entitled to their opinion but where necessary prudence should be applied as in this case. Two people sent me private messages last week, saying they felt worse after reading the negative comments about two tinnitus treatments, one is mentioned in this thread. The members in question, had never tried the treatments but were quick to post website links in the forum to support their claim. The people that PM'd me felt there was no hope.
Yesterday, someone new to tinnitus said to me in the forum, that TRT is not available in their country what can they do? I suggested to print my positivity posts that are in my article Tinnitus, A Personal View. I also advised to print the positivity posts from other members that post here as I believe them to be helpful. Once this is done refer to them regularly. Over time It will help them to look at their tinnitus and life with a more positive outlook. I believe the posts to be a form of counselling.
Reading them on a monitor is fine but once read they are soon forgotten. For the message to sink in and be effective they need to be read often. In a similar way that a person would see a Hearing Therapist for tinnitus counselling on a regular basis. I then suggested to use sound enrichment at night using a sound machine. Professor Jasterboff has mentioned this in his TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy book) I have had TRT twice in twenty years and found it to be helpful.
It wasn't long before the advice that I was giving to this person was challenged by another Tinnitus talk member, which I felt were unwarranted. I explained to this member I do not wish to engage in a long drawn out conversation and it didn't go any further. It is a shame that a few people at Tinnitus talk repeatedly carry on in this selfish way and have no consideration or respect for others that come here for help.
Michael
To me at least this go around Philemon was a bit more clear about where he stood. He got back to substance finally. Effectively however he stands for nothing. I am paraphrasing. He doesn't subscribe to TRT and notion that the brain can be redirected away...distracted if you will from tinnitus specific frequencies such there is less preoccupation with tinnitus which follows a tenet to habituation. So we clearly disagree and of Michael, Dr. Jasterboff myself and other scholars disagree with Philemon as well. Further Philemon went on to say, he didn't subscribe to what Mith wrote either and again we disagree in part as I do subscribe to some of the underlying precipitating reasons Mith wrote that promote H and T. Where I disagree Mith, is the underlying maladies that Mith sited, are not intractable. Our biology is a work in progress, sometimes a work in regress but sometimes the brain adjusts for mechanical deficiencies to the hearing apparatus...or....NOBODY...would improve with their H and even their T and the reality is some improve with both. To me, TRT is often referred to as a concrete entity. I will go a step farther and say that a person can have their H improve without deliberate TRT...but rather a more implicit assimilation to ambient noise. A natural retraining. For those that improve with their H that don't embark on a dedicated TRT program, the only plausible explanation is a morphing of neural plasticity or less excitability of neurons which to me is a tenet of TRT or...and this was Mith's point, a reversal of what Mith believes can't change...physical injury to the hearing apparatus. Although the latter is unlikely, I also believe in some instances physiology can change toward the good as well. There is a further analog in the conversation about H and relationship with tinnitus. It is known that there are people with hearing loss...some profound loss whereby they have no H or T. This is where there is a clear physiological degradation to the hearing apparatus and yet no H or T. This is discordant with the notion that the 3rd and perhaps the largest contributor to H and to T is the brain itself...how the brain processes the signal sent to the auditory cortex. That is the foundation of why H can improve in the face of the maladies Mith stated. So I partly agree with Mith in that regard and of course I disagree with Mith and Philemon that the brain is intractable and it can't change to desensitive to sound and even the annoyance of tinnitus.
So a further dissection of what I believe.
On a last note directed to Philemon who places a person's arrogance as the centerpiece of substance worthy to derail the topic at hand. I can only say how much I disagree. I suppose in some ways I can't help be arrogant, so perhaps you are right. Even though I believe there is data to deny your position and Mith's position on the intractability of H, for a person to waste so much band width because they believe a person is arrogant when responding to the despicable things Mith wrote, to me that is beyond absurd. So yes, my indignation shows. I am appalled at such ignorance to be so wasteful and disrespectful of the forum..both Philemon and Mith.
That said, I wish everybody well and more civil discourse moving forward.
So a further dissection of what I believe.
On a last note directed to Philemon who places a person's arrogance as the centerpiece of substance worthy to derail the topic at hand. I can only say how much I disagree. I suppose in some ways I can't help be arrogant, so perhaps you are right. Even though I believe there is data to deny your position and Mith's position on the intractability of H, for a person to waste so much band width because they believe a person is arrogant when responding to the despicable things Mith wrote, to me that is beyond absurd. So yes, my indignation shows. I am appalled at such ignorance to be so wasteful and disrespectful of the forum..both Philemon and Mith.
That said, I wish everybody well and more civil discourse moving forward.
- Aug 29, 2015
- 7,069
- Tinnitus Since
- 2004
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Meniere's Disease
TRT is gold star treatment for tinnitus in the UK and involves counselling to help you cope with the unwanted emotions that come with tinnitus and Hyperacusis along with white noise generators.
In some areas you can get it free on the NHS or have to go private
It can take 1-2 years so you can see why not widely available unless your tinnitus is cronic and effects your mental well-being and impacts on your life that you can not cope .
If you are ever offered TRT grab it with both hands and know you are lucky to get it..lots of love glynis
In some areas you can get it free on the NHS or have to go private
It can take 1-2 years so you can see why not widely available unless your tinnitus is cronic and effects your mental well-being and impacts on your life that you can not cope .
If you are ever offered TRT grab it with both hands and know you are lucky to get it..lots of love glynis
Sebastians
Member
- Jan 12, 2016
- 375
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Guitars, loud girls and guns
jesus bloody christ, at least @Mithrandir makes an effort to express himself in a foreign language. I bet the lot of you don't even have a basic understanding of any other language besides your native English. And France is obviously NOT a third world country, that's just a cheap shot. Every nation has its shortcomings. And stop throwing hissy fits and toys-out-of-the-pram temper tantrums whenever someone has a different opinion on your TRT doctrine, that would be great.
Se référant à la France comme un pays du tiers monde était une blague. Mith a agi comme s'il était d'un pays du tiers monde. Il n'importe pas quelle langue vous communiquer en commentaires insultants, ne sera pas toléré. De plus, Smith avait tort à propos de la nature immuable de l'hyperacousie. Il peut changer en dépit des raisons qu'il aperçu une personne peut contracter l'hyperacousie.
Où est votre contribution à la discussion d'autres que de critiquer les autres qui offrent à débattre de la substance de la relation de la TRT par rapport à l'hyperacousie ?
Sebastians
Member
- Jan 12, 2016
- 375
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Guitars, loud girls and guns
Lol, te veux me tester ou quoi? Et bien, c'est comme tu veux monsieur le blagueur. Mais avant qu'on commence, je voudrais préciser que je n'ai pas du tout l'ambition, ni l'envie de gaspiller mon temps en entrant en débat avec l'alter ego de Michael Leigh. En fait, J'ai des choses plus amusantes à faire ce vendredi soir de m'occuper d'une bande d'adeptes hyperpédants du mouvement sectaire TRT.
Tu trouveras mes contributions un peux partout tout simplement en utilisant la fonction 'search' sur ce site-web, simple comme bonjour.
Gros bisous mon petit lapin ;-)
Tu trouveras mes contributions un peux partout tout simplement en utilisant la fonction 'search' sur ce site-web, simple comme bonjour.
Gros bisous mon petit lapin ;-)
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