Sound Sensitivity with Pain and "Loudness" Hyperacusis

[Street Spirit]

Just a thought. Sometimes I feel like there is a difference between the two. One can have "h" and have no pain and another can be sensitive to noises or certain frequencies and have lots of pain. ( including those with just tinnitus)I'm talking burning ears, achy ears, stabbing pain etc..Real substantial pain. I sometimes think when people say " that sound "hurt" my ears" they are more saying it irritates them like nails on chalkboard or else makes them feel uncomfortable. Then there are those who only experience headache and migraines from noises. I just think that though we put it all under the same hyperacusis umbrella, these are in fact different conditions. For instance I had irritation to sounds in the beginning and now have physical pain..why did it morph? For some, pain never occurs..why not?..is it these people do not experience tts? Is that the sole cause of pain? Which could accompany misophonia or phonophobia or neither for that matter. .. anyone here with actual pain in their ears use trt to recover?

just my random h thoughts for the day..and yes i do know some have recovered using trt and also had ear pain..just wondering if anyone else here has.

 

[lapidus]

Just a thought. Sometimes I feel like there is a difference between the two. One can have "h" and have no pain and another can be sensitive to noises or certain frequencies and have lots of pain. ( including those with just tinnitus)I'm talking burning ears, achy ears, stabbing pain etc..Real substantial pain. I sometimes think when people say " that sound "hurt" my ears" they are more saying it irritates them like nails on chalkboard or else makes them feel uncomfortable. Then there are those who only experience headache and migraines from noises. I just think that though we put it all under the same hyperacusis umbrella, these are in fact different conditions. For instance I had irritation to sounds in the beginning and now have physical pain..why did it morph? For some, pain never occurs..why not?..is it these people do not experience tts? Is that the sole cause of pain? Which could accompany misophonia or phonophobia or neither for that matter. .. anyone here with actual pain in their ears use trt to recover?

just my random h thoughts for the day..and yes i do know some have recovered using trt and also had ear pain..just wondering if anyone else here has.

I agree. I also think that there must be different forms of H. When my started, it came on very gradual. In the beginning there wasnt pain, it was more of an uncomfortable feeling and a slight TTS spasm in my right ear. Then it escalated (don't know why) and those spasms became more aggresive when I heard a noise and now also in my left ear. And my discomfort levels got lower and lower. I think the pain I feel with some nosies, especially dynamic noises like closing a lid or a handclap, is due to my tensor tympani och stapedius muscles. I can really feel them stretching and pulling themselves togheter tight. Is my H due to my TTS or vice versa? I don't know what causes what. It's like the chicken and the egg.

If you do some reading on the H network forums, you'll see that many people with pain, even pain in silence has recovered using TRT or other sound based therapies.

 

[Street Spirit]

@lapidus ..I've wondered the same thing and could of written your post. I sometimes think tts has caused my h. Mine came on like yours but started with t. I did not find everything loud and usually still dont unless my tts is going crazy or I've worn ear protection for long time (like when I was in hospital a month ago)

 

[bill 112]

I think mine is loudness H,after my sound insult at the start of the year nearly everything seemed soo loud and uncomfortable,but I dont believe there is a difference between the two,one of the creaters of the H forum described his symptoms at the start very clearly,he said everything seemed so much louder than before he could even hear a watch ticking from the otherside of the room which would indicate loudness H,he waited a few days and went to see a specialist and was in immense pain which would indicate sound sensitivity H,he experienced both symptoms of the disorder showing that they may just be two symptoms of the same condition.The tympani muscle only tightens because the brain is telling it to do so thus indicateing in my opinion the auditory nerve or the auditory perception of the of the auditory brain is on high alert and is more active than normal.I had my second ear flutter today which was pretty creepy,my ear just went womp,womp,womp,womp for about 30 seconds.We got a new ice cream machine were I work and its pretty noisy so I believe thats what may of caused it.

 

[Valentin]

Hyperacusys is not about develloping super human hearing, it's only about having pain in presence of normal sounds.

 

[lapidus]

Hyperacusys is not about develloping super human hearing, it's only about having pain in presence of normal sounds.

No, nobody has stated that it is super human hearing, but sounds still appear louder to most people with H.

I think mine is loudness H,after my sound insult at the start of the year nearly everything seemed soo loud and uncomfortable,but I dont believe there is a difference between the two,one of the creaters of the H forum described his symptoms at the start very clearly,he said everything seemed so much louder than before he could even hear a watch ticking from the otherside of the room which would indicate loudness H,he waited a few days and went to see a specialist and was in immense pain which would indicate sound sensitivity H,he experienced both symptoms of the disorder showing that they may just be two symptoms of the same condition.The tympani muscle only tightens because the brain is telling it to do so thus indicateing in my opinion the auditory nerve or the auditory perception of the of the auditory brain is on high alert and is more active than normal.I had my second ear flutter today which was pretty creepy,my ear just went womp,womp,womp,womp for about 30 seconds.We got a new ice cream machine were I work and its pretty noisy so I believe thats what may of caused it.

So you think that TTS is not the cause of H but instead somewhat of a symptom that follows H as a "bonus symptom". That might be. eems reasonable to me. Altough I actually had TTS long before my H. For some years now I've had spasms (not pain) to some loud sounds but they would dissapear just as soon as they began and not happen very frequently, maybe three times a year. But when I got H in november, the TTS also worsen, so now I have it every day.

 

[bill 112]

No, nobody has stated that it is super human hearing, but sounds still appear louder to most people with H.


So you think that TTS is not the cause of H but instead somewhat of a symptom that follows H as a "bonus symptom". That might be. eems reasonable to me. Altough I actually had TTS long before my H. For some years now I've had spasms (not pain) to some loud sounds but they would dissapear just as soon as they began and not happen very frequently, maybe three times a year. But when I got H in november, the TTS also worsen, so now I have it every day.

I believe they are all symptoms of the same condition with kind of the exception of TTS but let me explain,there are some people with TTS and no sound sensitivity whatsoever,the tensor typani muscle sometimes spasims when around sound or all on its own but these people dont have any other symptoms despite this and arent troubled by it.I do believe it may be a pre warning symptom of sound sensitivity showing that the auditory system is on high alert or overactive.When soldiers or people are around loud noise such as gunfire or loud noise the brain tries to protect the hearing by tightening these muscles to reduce sound.Now this is extremely loud noise and thats when for people with normal hearing the muscles really begin to do their job.Now lets say for someone with an auditory system thats overactive the brain is going to see normal noises as extremely loud and trigger its protecting mechanisim the tensor tympani muscle even for these mundane sounds to try and protect hearing.Its the brain doing its job but over doing it and I believe if the auditory system is calmed and put back to normal that the Tensor Tympani muscle will also stop overreacting.The Tensor Tympani muscle doesnt tighten because it wants to,its because the brain is telling it to.And why,because it perceives normal noise as threats.

 

[lapidus]

I believe they are all symptoms of the same condition with kind of the exception of TTS but let me explain,there are some people with TTS and no sound sensitivity whatsoever,the tensor typani muscle sometimes spasims when around sound or all on its own but these people dont have any other symptoms despite this and arent troubled by it.I do believe it may be a pre warning symptom of sound sensitivity showing that the auditory system is on high alert or overactive.When soldiers or people are around loud noise such as gunfire or loud noise the brain tries to protect the hearing by tightening these muscles to reduce sound.Now this is extremely loud noise and thats when for people with normal hearing the muscles really begin to do their job.Now lets say for someone with an auditory system thats overactive the brain is going to see normal noises as extremely loud and trigger its protecting mechanisim the tensor tympani muscle even for these mundane sounds to try and protect hearing.Its the brain doing its job but over doing it and I believe if the auditory system is calmed and put back to normal that the Tensor Tympani muscle will also stop overreacting.The Tensor Tympani muscle doesnt tighten because it wants to,its because the brain is telling it to.And why,because it perceives normal noise as threats.

Yes exactly. I didnt have any other symptoms when I first started to experience TTS spasms infrequently a couple years back. Since it didnt bother me that much, I didnt bother to look it up either. I guess my TTS was some kind of pre-H symptom then. What you say makes very much sense to me. Thank you Bill!

 

[Street Spirit]

My tts symptoms started randomly as well years before h and t. But why was my auditory system strained? I'm not in a band, don't work in a loud environment. I also had crackling in ears after bad head cold and still have it now..sometimes I think for me, this is all damage from tmj. .my ears are a mess and it's very depressing.

 

[bill 112]

My tts symptoms started randomly as well years before h and t. But why was my auditory system strained? I'm not in a band, don't work in a loud environment. I also had crackling in ears after bad head cold and still have it now..sometimes I think for me, this is all damage from tmj. .my ears are a mess and it's very depressing.

It could very well be that your TMJ is causing a reaction with your auditory nerve which is exactly 1inch long and located right next to the brainstem.This is where the electrical part of hearing begins and is located in close proximity to the jaw muscles and facial nerve.It could very well be that the strain of the of the TMJ joint is having a negative afect with the auditory nerve thus affecting auditory perception making the brain believe it is in danger when it isnt.Have you been treated and examined regarding your TMJ?

 

[Street Spirit]

@bill 112 I am now seeking help for my tmj and hoping it will help my situation. How do we calm the auditory system? any ideas?

 

[lapidus]

It could very well be that your TMJ is causing a reaction with your auditory nerve which is exactly 1inch long and located right next to the brainstem.This is where the electrical part of hearing begins and is located in close proximity to the jaw muscles and facial nerve.It could very well be that the strain of the of the TMJ joint is having a negative afect with the auditory nerve thus affecting auditory perception making the brain believe it is in danger when it isnt.Have you been treated and examined regarding your TMJ?

This is really intersting cause I have 4 impacted wisdom teeth. Do you think that wisdom teeth also can put pressure on the auditory nerve?

 

[bill 112]

@bill 112 I am now seeking help for my tmj and hoping it will help my situation. How do we calm the auditory system? any ideas?

As of yet we have no real way of calming an overactive auditory system,this is why T still presents its self permanently and wont go away for most.I look at what Autifony is developing as being the necessary tool needed to calm an overactive auditory pathway.If you take an anti inflammatory it works on specific receptors to elleviate symptoms of an inflamed condition whatever it might be.Anti-depressants or SSRIs work on seratonin receptors to elliviate depression or anxiety and does in most cases a really good job at getting people through a rough time.These medications are targeted at specific receptors and do what they were developed to do.Its the same with anti-convulsants,I know a lovely young man near here who has epilepsy,he was put on an anti-convulsant a few years back that targeted specific receptors that his neurologist believed was faulty,needless to say he has been problem free for nearly 4 years now and is living a normal life.These are drugs targeting specific neuron overactivity and reducing it to near normal levels,but as of now there are no specific drugs to target this similar overactivity in the auditory pathways and thats where Autifony come in.The first real drug targeting the down regulation of auditory neurons thus calming the auditory brain.I really hope the TMJ treatment works out for you and you find some relief,if you have TMJ and no hearing damage whatsoever and havent been exposed to high levels of noise then having this seen to and treated could be hugely beneficial.

 

[bill 112]

This is really intersting cause I have 4 impacted wisdom teeth. Do you think that wisdom teeth also can put pressure on the auditory nerve?

Its really hard to say,but if its causing pressure and neuralgia like symptoms it could very well be playing a part and in my opinion would be worth investigating.Some people have experienced temporary T from just being punched in the jaw,so anything that could have an affect on the jaw muscles and nerves can also have a strong affect on the ear.

 

[lapidus]

Its really hard to say,but if its causing pressure and neuralgia like symptoms it could very well be playing a part and in my opinion would be worth investigating.Some people have experienced temporary T from just being punched in the jaw,so anything that could have an affect on the jaw muscles and nerves can also have a strong affect on the ear.

Yeah my girlfriend had T before she removed a wisdom tooth. And the T faded when the impacted tooth was removed. So I think to myself, if impacted wisdom teeth can cause T, then why not H too?

 

[shenandoah]

Same story, although vice-versa. First began with T, a few years later H, then both worsened and finally, the coup de grace, TTTS. I recently met with a Doctor here in LA, who is on Dr. Jastrebroffs TRT website and he explained that TTTS are just symptoms of H that at times manifest themselves in some people (especially with those are suffering my anxiety as a result of T/H. But that doesn't seem to be the case with you guys. Either way, he explained in time once stress levels subside (for a sustained period of time) and improving your tolerance to sound (via TRT model) that the TTTS symptoms will also decrease. I'll have to be the judge of that I guess.

 

[Christian Calov]

Hello StreetSpirit,

I am new to this forum but very interested in exchange on "hyperacusis with pain". That is why your thread caught my attention. I share your impression that hyperacusis with pain and "loudness hyperacusis" may be two related but distinct conditions.

I began developing hyperacusis in the end January 2015. There was no acoustic incident involved. No ear pain, "just" discomfort. I rather quickly found a TRT specialist here in Germany and started with sound therapy.

In the end of April I walked past a garbage truck for bulky waste when that truck crunched something which caused an immediate severe pain in my left ear that did not go away for some hours. In the weeks that followed, the ear pain came back whenever I was exposed to something "louder" like driving a car. The pain got much worse by an MRI that my GP ordered. My personal perception is that since the first "incident" the threshold for pain is going down continuously. My impression is also that the threshold goes down with exposure to "louder" situations like longer car rides. Without pain medication even a conversation is painful - that is why I have started taking Lyrica which does help. I cannot tolerate the TRT noises as they contribute to the pain. I have started different mindfulness exercises (yoga, mediation) to reduce focus on the pain. That does help.

I do not have hearing loss or tinnitus. In the ear clinic that I visited they said I do not have TTTS because they could not see any flickering of the eardrum when exposed to sounds. I also subjectively do not experience these type of symptoms.

I personally experience the pain and the "loudness discomfort" as two different things. At first I had no pain at all, just discomfort. Then pain developed later in response to "acoustic shocks". My loudness discomfort has reduced with time and with the desensitization I did in the ear clinic. But the pain level went in the opposite direction. I had a telephone call with the audiologist Marsha Johnson who also perceives pain and loudness discomfort as distinct conditions and perceives the former as a "physical condition" that could maybe be addressed by measures such as corticosteroid injections…

I would be interested in any advice on how to deal with the pain part…

Regards,
Christian

 

[Contrast]

Same story, although vice-versa. First began with T, a few years later H, then both worsened and finally, the coup de grace, TTTS. I recently met with a Doctor here in LA, who is on Dr. Jastrebroffs TRT website and he explained that TTTS are just symptoms of H that at times manifest themselves in some people (especially with those are suffering my anxiety as a result of T/H. But that doesn't seem to be the case with you guys. Either way, he explained in time once stress levels subside (for a sustained period of time) and improving your tolerance to sound (via TRT model) that the TTTS symptoms will also decrease. I'll have to be the judge of that I guess.

my TTTS did not go away and my noxacusis(pain hyperacusis) is gone.

then again I am an anxiety ridden person with mental problems