Spike After Pub

[Ross McLauchlan]

Hi all,

This is the second time that I've worsened my tinnitus. On Friday I went to the pub after work with a few folk. We had a half day, so it was from around 3pm and I left about 7pm. Up to that point my tinnitus was loud but manageable, most day time sounds would cover it but audible if I looked for it.

I have a set of ACS custom plugs, with 27db attenuation. They were in tight before I even entered the pub and i didnt take them out except in the toilet which was much quieter. The pub itself wasn't loud, it peaked about 85db on my phone, but bobbed from around 75-80 mostly so I figured I'd be fine.

I was fairly drunk by the time I left and I remember my tinnitus being loud that night. I woke up the next day with the usual fullness but my ears were quiet; however since the a couple of new noises have appeared in both ears and all over my head. My left ear was never too bad, but now it's just as loud as my right. The changes have continued to intensify and are now keeping me up at night, which I suppose is the main issue.

I guess my point here is to remind folk to be a bit smarter than I've been. Earplugs for me don't seem to be a guarantee.

I also speculate that either booze is further damaging my ears (my only 2 increases have been while drunk), my ear plugs aren't really helping, despite being custom fit, or the duration of time spent in loud venues is the culprit.

Recovery seems to be a longer road for me once again, but I'll keep my chin up and avoid loud places for a good while.

Take care

Ross

 

[Bobbie7]

I was fairly drunk by the time I left and I remember my tinnitus being loud that night. I woke up the next day with the usual fullness but my ears were quiet; however since the a couple of new noises have appeared in both ears and all over my head. My left ear was never too bad, but now it's just as loud as my right. The changes have continued to intensify and are now keeping me up at night, which I suppose is the main issue.

Hi @Ross McLauchlan and welcome to the Forum. Since you had your earplugs in for most of the evening (except briefly as you have stated) it does seem most likely that the culprit which caused both the addition of new sounds and your tinnitus is attributable to an excess of liquor. It would be wise for you to avoid liquor and loud music now.... give your ears a rest and I hope within a short period of time your present discomfort will abate. If you listen to either soothing music set at a reasonable volume or use a sound machine, it may help you to fall asleep during this troubling period. Please try not to stress yourself since, as we all know, this can only exacerbate any condition.

Sending best wishes and feel better.

Barbara

 

[JurgenG]

I don't think those noise levels could do any damage.
They COULD upset your T temporarly, as I have experienced as well.

Alcohol is also TEMPORARLY. So don't start living like a monk if you don't want to.
Just take some rest now and drink lots of water, maybe use some mag/nac.
But I don't think you will have worsened anything.

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

Thanks @Bobbie7 and @JurgenG it may well have been the booze, time will tell. As for living a monk, I couldn't do that if I tried, I'll probably avoid alcohol for the foreseeable future - that doesn't mean that I can't be social even if that's out with the pub. There's always quieter activities.

A bit of natural sleep and I'll get back to normal!

 

[Sean]

Thanks @Bobbie7 and @JurgenG it may well have been the booze, time will tell. As for living a monk, I couldn't do that if I tried, I'll probably avoid alcohol for the foreseeable future - that doesn't mean that I can't be social even if that's out with the pub. There's always quieter activities.

A bit of natural sleep and I'll get back to normal!

@Ross McLauchlan , I get spike if I drink but spike only last for maximum one day .
If I go to loud events it can last for one week to 2-3 months .
I always mention in my post to avoid loud places ..it seems most people agree and few people have different opinion and they think it's ok to go to loud places with plugs .
All the best ,
Sean

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

@Sean thanks for info, good to know things settle down after a while - I'll keep an open mind for the next few months and try to be a bit kinder to myself rather than expecting it to change too soon!

I've been out numerous times to quite loud places, not clubs but places for lunch and dinner with friends. I've even rode my motorbike on occasion without a set back. Just seems to be when I indulge in alcohol I pay a different cost - you think I'd learn!

Hoping not to repeat my mistakes, won't be going anywhere loud for quite some time. My ears will hopefully recover.

Cheers

Ross

 

[Michael Leigh]

I have a set of ACS custom plugs, with 27db attenuation. They were in tight before I even entered the pub and i didnt take them out except in the toilet which was much quieter. The pub itself wasn't loud, it peaked about 85db on my phone, but bobbed from around 75-80 mostly so I figured I'd be fine.

The best earplugs or ear protection will not stop external sound, reaching the inner ear by bone conduction if it is loud enough. This is when sound can pass through the skull. Not only is high frequency sound harmful but low bass frequencies too. Some people that have tinnitus, think by wearing earplugs they are safe and can go to a pub, clubs or a concert with the belief their tinnitus won't become worse, this is definitely not the case. One still has to be aware of loud sounds.

Please read the post below from an Audio Engineer you might find it helpful.

@Bill Weir
Hi!

I'm an audio engineer and now have T. I hate to have to tell you this but there are no earplugs that can protect you in the typical nightclub environment. The best protection will only lower the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) by about 30 db. Assuming the sound is typical, it's going to hover around 105 db A when measured using long term averaging, slow response on a meter. This means there will be peaks well in excess of 120 db"A" weighted. Weighting the scales of measurement on the sound meter gives more accurate readings. "A" weighting approximates what your eardrum is sensitive to... meaning sound with the deep bass filtered out. "C" weighting includes the bass and is generally 15-30 db higher than an "A" reading.

So, 105 db A (typical nightclub or major concert translates into 130 db "C" or more including the bass. How long do people generally stay in the average nightclub? Too long! 4 hour stay is average. A concert is generally 2.5 hours. Many people will stay in the club all night until they are "OK" to drive and be back in public LMAO. The drugs people do screws up their judgement and desensitizes them to physical sensation and people damage themselves without realizing it.

Sound levels pretty much everywhere are TOO loud IMO. Instead of the industry standard 105 db A (Live Nation SPL cap) I like to keep it at 96-98 for people. Why so loud? Above 96 db the fight or flight response begins to kick in and you get that rush of excitement you get at a concert. It's a lot of what people pay for. Deep bass goes in through bone transconductance. You don't "hear" it with your eardrum you feel it This is how it is possible to have bass with headphones. If this transconductance did not occur, the long wavelengths that make bass would not have enough distance to unfold when using headphones. So, earplugs DO NOT protect you from low frequency damage. Not even a little bit.

So, on the one hand, you're going to have 100db + peaks getting through your earplugs in the range above 100 Hz (low note on a 4 string bass guitar is 41.7 Hz) and the bass below will pressurize your cochlea like nothing is even there, straight through the bone. Some of the subwoofer arrays I have installed in places must have security grating around them to keep people from getting within ten feet of the subwoofer array because the array produces well over 150 db down at 35Hz at 1 meter distance and would make them nauseous or in some extreme cases even worse than that.

I can say this definitively from direct personal and professional experience. If you value your hearing and do not want your tinnitus to increase, avoid these places or if you must go limit your exposure considerably.

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

Thanks @Michael Leigh

I had stumbled upon this post from Bill on Saturday afternoon while trying to frantically find out what I'd done to myself.

I appreciate you passing this on. I only wish the audiologist who sold me the plugs had done the same; seems to be a false economy for those of us with ear damage - then again, maybe I'm saying that because I'm slightly agitated!

Who'd have thought tinnitus could bring a person this level of anguish? Maybe one day it'll settle down again.

Thanks

Ross

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Ross McLauchlan

HI Ross,
I feel for you because I know what you're going through believe me. If you haven't read my tinnitus articles yet I suggest that you do, please click on the links below. I advise you not to use headphones even at low volume. Hopefully the tinnitus will calm down. Start using sound enrichment at night but please don't mask (cover up) the tinnitus. It is important to set the sound enrichment below the tinnitus not to cover it. If the brain cannot hear the tinnitus it cannot habituate to it.

I wish you the best of luck
Take care
Michael
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/

 

[Bobbie7]

The best earplugs or ear protection will not stop external sound, reaching the inner ear by bone conduction if it is loud enough. This is when sound can pass through the skull. Not only is high frequency sound harmful but low bass frequencies too. Some people that have tinnitus, think by wearing earplugs they are safe and can go to a pub, clubs or a concert with the belief their tinnitus won't become worse, this is definitely not the case. One still has to be aware of loud sounds.

Hi @Michael Leigh - Since we are touching on this subject, I would like to take this opportunity to ask a question. Yesterday I used our new vacuum cleaner but before doing so I donned my Clear Armour Professional Ear Muffs (34dB Highest NRR) and barely heard any sound (although my husband said it was very loud from the other room ((he also has tinnitus)) ). Afterward I had no spike thankfully as I knew I was protected. However, those ear muffs sure are tight and I experienced a little aural fullness which soon subsided. My question is: are my ears really safe from harm? It is a very loud vacuum cleaner after all and there was only slight sound. If these ear muffs are not sufficient, then what else should I use? Needless to say, I do become a bit nervous when I must vacuum.

Wishing you a pleasant and peaceful day.

Barbara

 

[Sean]

The best earplugs or ear protection will not stop external sound, reaching the inner ear by bone conduction if it is loud enough. This is when sound can pass through the skull. Not only is high frequency sound harmful but low bass frequencies too. Some people that have tinnitus, think by wearing earplugs they are safe and can go to a pub, clubs or a concert with the belief their tinnitus won't become worse, this is definitely not the case. One still has to be aware of loud sounds.

Please read the post below from an Audio Engineer you might find it helpful.

@Bill Weir
Hi!

I'm an audio engineer and now have T. I hate to have to tell you this but there are no earplugs that can protect you in the typical nightclub environment. The best protection will only lower the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) by about 30 db. Assuming the sound is typical, it's going to hover around 105 db A when measured using long term averaging, slow response on a meter. This means there will be peaks well in excess of 120 db"A" weighted. Weighting the scales of measurement on the sound meter gives more accurate readings. "A" weighting approximates what your eardrum is sensitive to... meaning sound with the deep bass filtered out. "C" weighting includes the bass and is generally 15-30 db higher than an "A" reading.

So, 105 db A (typical nightclub or major concert translates into 130 db "C" or more including the bass. How long do people generally stay in the average nightclub? Too long! 4 hour stay is average. A concert is generally 2.5 hours. Many people will stay in the club all night until they are "OK" to drive and be back in public LMAO. The drugs people do screws up their judgement and desensitizes them to physical sensation and people damage themselves without realizing it.

Sound levels pretty much everywhere are TOO loud IMO. Instead of the industry standard 105 db A (Live Nation SPL cap) I like to keep it at 96-98 for people. Why so loud? Above 96 db the fight or flight response begins to kick in and you get that rush of excitement you get at a concert. It's a lot of what people pay for. Deep bass goes in through bone transconductance. You don't "hear" it with your eardrum you feel it This is how it is possible to have bass with headphones. If this transconductance did not occur, the long wavelengths that make bass would not have enough distance to unfold when using headphones. So, earplugs DO NOT protect you from low frequency damage. Not even a little bit.

So, on the one hand, you're going to have 100db + peaks getting through your earplugs in the range above 100 Hz (low note on a 4 string bass guitar is 41.7 Hz) and the bass below will pressurize your cochlea like nothing is even there, straight through the bone. Some of the subwoofer arrays I have installed in places must have security grating around them to keep people from getting within ten feet of the subwoofer array because the array produces well over 150 db down at 35Hz at 1 meter distance and would make them nauseous or in some extreme cases even worse than that.

I can say this definitively from direct personal and professional experience. If you value your hearing and do not want your tinnitus to increase, avoid these places or if you must go limit your exposure considerably.

@Michael Leigh - such a informative post .
I will NEVER go to loud events no matter what !its a sacrifice I have decided to make long time back .
I really wish every one read your post and see the danger they put themselves in by trying to be brave by going to loud events .

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

@Michael Leigh

Thanks for the information. I have read many of your posts on this forum, all of which have been very informative but clearly also the product of many years of experience dealing with tinnitus. I hope to have as much strength as you to regain the positivity to move past this.

For me, natural sleep does wonders. I'll be working towards that as a short term goal and taking it from there. Hopefully I'll look back at this in a month as a reminder of how bad it can get.

Cheers

Ross

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Ross McLauchlan

HI Ross,
Thanks for your kind comments.
If you are having difficulty coping have a word with your GP and see if you can be referred to ENT for tests. Then a refferal to a Hearing Therapist fo whatever treatment is available.
I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh - such a informative post .
I will NEVER go to loud events no matter what !its a sacrifice I have decided to make long time back .
I really wish every one read your post and see the danger they put themselves in by trying to be brave by going to loud events .

The unfortunate thing about tinnitus Sean, when we find out that we've accidentally made the tinnitus worse it's often too late.
Michael

 

[linearb]

Alcohol is also TEMPORARLY. .

speak for yourself, I've been drunk or buzzed since.... oh, since about 2001.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi @Bobbie7
I could be wrong about this but I don't think you have much to worry about, as your tinnitus wasn't caused by "exposure to loud noise". Most vacuum cleaners and other household appliances, are built to within safe hearing limits. Many years ago when first got tinnitus and had severe hyperucusis, I wore foam earplugs when using the vacuum cleaner. I haven't used earplugs in years when using the vacuum cleaner and had no problems. By all means use your ear muffs but I think you are quite safe.

Hope this helps.
All the best
Michael

 

[Bobbie7]

Hi @Bobbie7
I could be wrong about this but I don't think you have much to worry about, as your tinnitus wasn't caused by "exposure to loud noise". Most vacuum cleaners and other household appliances, are built to within safe hearing limits. Many years ago when first got tinnitus and had severe hyperucusis, I wore foam earplugs when using the vacuum cleaner. I haven't used earplugs in years when using the vacuum cleaner and had no problems. By all means use your ear muffs but I think you are quite safe.

Hope this helps.
All the best
Michael

Thank you @Michael Leigh - I feel reassured now since this vacuum cleaner is far louder than my old one and I was concerned.

Best wishes,
Barbara

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you @Michael Leigh - I feel reassured now since this vacuum cleaner is far louder than my old one and I was concerned.

Best wishes,
Barbara

Always better to be safe than sorry Barbara you're doing the right thing.
Take care.
Michael

 

[fishbone]

Hi all,

This is the second time that I've worsened my tinnitus. On Friday I went to the pub after work with a few folk. We had a half day, so it was from around 3pm and I left about 7pm. Up to that point my tinnitus was loud but manageable, most day time sounds would cover it but audible if I looked for it.

I have a set of ACS custom plugs, with 27db attenuation. They were in tight before I even entered the pub and i didnt take them out except in the toilet which was much quieter. The pub itself wasn't loud, it peaked about 85db on my phone, but bobbed from around 75-80 mostly so I figured I'd be fine.

I was fairly drunk by the time I left and I remember my tinnitus being loud that night. I woke up the next day with the usual fullness but my ears were quiet; however since the a couple of new noises have appeared in both ears and all over my head. My left ear was never too bad, but now it's just as loud as my right. The changes have continued to intensify and are now keeping me up at night, which I suppose is the main issue.

I guess my point here is to remind folk to be a bit smarter than I've been. Earplugs for me don't seem to be a guarantee.

I also speculate that either booze is further damaging my ears (my only 2 increases have been while drunk), my ear plugs aren't really helping, despite being custom fit, or the duration of time spent in loud venues is the culprit.

Recovery seems to be a longer road for me once again, but I'll keep my chin up and avoid loud places for a good while.

Take care

Ross

Drinking/being drunk + 80 db for sure can increase your tinnitus/spikes...

 

[TuneOut]

Drinking/being drunk + 80 db for sure can increase your tinnitus/spikes...

How would drinking be a factor in this equation?

 

[TuneOut]

Thank you @Michael Leigh - I feel reassured now since this vacuum cleaner is far louder than my old one and I was concerned.

Best wishes,
Barbara

Personally, I wouldn't chance it. Vacuum cleaners are too loud. Even the Dyson one I used, in the past. The low-frequencies just aren't blocked that well by earplugs. Plus you have bone conduction because you are holding it.

 

[JurgenG]

Drinking/being drunk + 80 db for sure can increase your tinnitus/spikes...

I doubt that 85 dB would permanently worsen it.

 

[Sean]

Hi all,

This is the second time that I've worsened my tinnitus. On Friday I went to the pub after work with a few folk. We had a half day, so it was from around 3pm and I left about 7pm. Up to that point my tinnitus was loud but manageable, most day time sounds would cover it but audible if I looked for it.

I have a set of ACS custom plugs, with 27db attenuation. They were in tight before I even entered the pub and i didnt take them out except in the toilet which was much quieter. The pub itself wasn't loud, it peaked about 85db on my phone, but bobbed from around 75-80 mostly so I figured I'd be fine.

I was fairly drunk by the time I left and I remember my tinnitus being loud that night. I woke up the next day with the usual fullness but my ears were quiet; however since the a couple of new noises have appeared in both ears and all over my head. My left ear was never too bad, but now it's just as loud as my right. The changes have continued to intensify and are now keeping me up at night, which I suppose is the main issue.

I guess my point here is to remind folk to be a bit smarter than I've been. Earplugs for me don't seem to be a guarantee.

I also speculate that either booze is further damaging my ears (my only 2 increases have been while drunk), my ear plugs aren't really helping, despite being custom fit, or the duration of time spent in loud venues is the culprit.

Recovery seems to be a longer road for me once again, but I'll keep my chin up and avoid loud places for a good while.

Take care

Ross

@Ross McLauchlan , was pub loud because of music or because lot of people there ?

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

@Sean

Initially just people talking until about 6:30, then a dj turned up which apparently even non-tinnitus folk thought was too loud. I'd have been out of there about 7:45 as I walked home, got food and was on my couch about 8:30. I was fairly drunk, but this is what I'm told!

So, in hindsight probably more like pre drinking then going to a gig with ear plugs in. My ears felt so quiet or I was having fun to the point I didn't even notice the noise!

Either way, damage is done so it'll be onwards from here, no real point in me trying to assess when I fucked up - I just need to learn when to leave a particularly loud venue, even if I don't feel it to be too loud at the time.

Its worth noting that since then I've been out for lunch, been visiting friends, trying to get back into living a wee bit of life with zero spikes since. If anything the normal sounds of everyday life are helping me forget and readjust. Just like right now in my office, the sound of other people and noises are very welcome!

In a month I'll gauge where I'm at, hopefully in a better head space and a little smarter!

Take care,

Ross

 

[Sean]

@Sean

Initially just people talking until about 6:30, then a dj turned up which apparently even non-tinnitus folk thought was too loud. I'd have been out of there about 7:45 as I walked home, got food and was on my couch about 8:30. I was fairly drunk, but this is what I'm told!

So, in hindsight probably more like pre drinking then going to a gig with ear plugs in. My ears felt so quiet or I was having fun to the point I didn't even notice the noise!

Either way, damage is done so it'll be onwards from here, no real point in me trying to assess when I fucked up - I just need to learn when to leave a particularly loud venue, even if I don't feel it to be too loud at the time.

Its worth noting that since then I've been out for lunch, been visiting friends, trying to get back into living a wee bit of life with zero spikes since. If anything the normal sounds of everyday life are helping me forget and readjust. Just like right now in my office, the sound of other people and noises are very welcome!

In a month I'll gauge where I'm at, hopefully in a better head space and a little smarter!

Take care,

Ross

@Ross McLauchlan , best of luck and do let us know how you are doing after a month or two .

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

@Sean thanks for the well wishes. I'll keep you all posted on where I end up with this.

So far though, it's a beautiful day in Scotland - maybe that's why my tinnitus isn't as intrusive today? More days like this and I'll be back to myself in no time!

Thanks again

Ross

 

[Sean]

@Sean thanks for the well wishes. I'll keep you all posted on where I end up with this.

So far though, it's a beautiful day in Scotland - maybe that's why my tinnitus isn't as intrusive today? More days like this and I'll be back to myself in no time!

Thanks again

Ross

You have such a positive attitude!

 

[Ross McLauchlan]

Incase anyone goes through a similar thing, I started this thread over 4 weeks ago due to a pretty bad spike caused by staying in a really loud pub for too long with loud music and people shouting in my ear all night. Daft, I know, but I don't regret it because I'd quite like to maintain some sort of a life despite the ringing in my head.

So first off, I'm doing much better. Initially I was really down and more than a little scared, because despite having had tinnitus for 4 months at that point, it never really depressed me. I've always hated it, but could see light at the end of the tunnel - this time was different. For some reason, it really affected my mood and my sleep was again non-existent. I suppose I didn't realise just how bad a level my tinnitus could reach.

Anyway, after the initial depression and a visit to the doctor, I was given a course of prednisolone, 60mg taper over two weeks. Turns out my Doctor has tinnitus and was quite open to helping me out after I suggested it may be beneficial. For those interested, it didn't really do much for me but I was desperate and would have taken anything if I thought it would drop the volume. Plus the side effects were a bit weird and I didn't even finish the whole course.

Aware that I had to challenge my way of thinking, I buried myself in activities. I wrote, recorded and mastered two EPs, spent countless hours in the gym, went swimming, continued to go into my work, hung out with my baby nephew, had lunch with friends, etc - all of which was lovely and I've continued to do so as often as possible.

Four weeks later, my tinnitus isn't half as bad or at least my reaction to it has diminished. Yes, the spike subsided to a large degree, but I still hear it - but more importantly, I've tried to maintain a positive focus. Really the whole situation forced me to change my attitude. For around 5 months I have heard the ringing in my ears and in that time I've had two pretty major set backs - but you know what? Fuck it. There's still loads to look forward to in life and i'm naive/positive enough to envisage a life without the worry of tinnitus; either in the form of habituation or spontaneous recovery. Granted, I'm not there yet but its a process and I believe mindset is half the battle.

There are people who've had tinnitus for 30 years and seem to be leading happy lives - I also bet their resolve and determination is very strong. These are the stories I cling to. @Sarah Russett pulled together a bunch of success stories as part of her own journey to success - I've saved these to my phone, laptop, etc, so that anytime I need a tinnitus related pick-me-up, I read over them. I guess my reasoning for this is that its equally viable to focus on things getting better as it is to focus on them getting worse: I want to get better, so I choose to focus on this outcome.

The site is a great resource for anyone new to tinnitus. There's loads of useful information and some very compassionate and well informed members who very often provide some much needed insight, context and hope to those in the midst of anxiety. However, it's also quite a scary place if you go too deep. I literally just viewed a poll which weighed up tinnitus against being put in a medically induced coma and another asking people to guess when a cure will be found - in between all of this, we still need to live.

My girlfriend gets back from New Zealand in 10 months and I want my focus to be on her and enjoying our lives as best we can, tinnitus or no tinnitus. This is just my personal approach, not intended to offend. I truly understand this struggle and I still very much have tinnitus - I'm just trying really hard not to suffer from it.

I've learned a few lessons, I hope to be better prepared to deal with T over the next 10 months.

Take care,

Ross.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I started this thread over 4 weeks ago due to a pretty bad spike caused by staying in a really loud pub for too long with loud music and people shouting in my ear all night. Daft, I know, but I don't regret it because I'd quite like to maintain some sort of a life despite the ringing in my head.

Four weeks later, my tinnitus isn't half as bad or at least my reaction to it has diminished. Yes, the spike subsided to a large degree

If you continue taking risks exposing yourself to noises so that you can "maintain some sort of a life despite the ringing in your head", a time might eventually come when the spike does not subside.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I'm just trying really hard not to suffer from it

Ultimately, whether or not you suffer from T is determined by the volume of T. If you don't change your lifestyle and pretend that you don't have T, you are taking a risk that your volume will not only not fade, but actually get louder.