Suicide Is NEVER an Option

[Zenyatta]

People don't choose to exist, they are forced to exist.

Parents choose to make babies; the baby has no say in the matter.

That, too. I know that if I had an option, knowing what kind of life I had ahead of me, I would have preferred not to be born. Didn't really have a choice in that, though.

 

[MJv]

People don't choose to exist, they are forced to exist.

Parents choose to make babies; the baby has no say in the matter.

Ok, now I understand. So you feel unwanted?
Unfortunately we couldn't choose, you are right about that.
Life can be very unfair for some people...

 

[MJv]

That, too. I know that if I had an option, knowing what kind of life I had ahead of me, I would have preferred not to be born. Didn't really have a choice in that, though.

Nobody knew / knows how our lives will be. For me personally, I wish the T and H didn't exist, for nobody.
Whatever you decide to do I hope you can still see some light in the dark. But suffering all your life must be very harsh and lonely

 

[Sen]

So you feel unwanted?

That's beside the point.

I can't think of a real reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to choose to kill themselves, even if their lives are perfectly fine. Forcing someone to be alive is far worse.

 

[MJv]

That's beside the point.

I can't think of a real reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to choose to kill themselves, even if their lives are perfectly fine. Forcing someone to be alive is far worse.

I think it's just the point. I can and will not judge about what another person wants to choose.
What I know is that killing yourself ain't that easy. Besides that family & friends will suffer a lot from the loss.
I've never met or heard of some one that killed himself with a perfect life. There must be a reason why they do it.
This could be depression, severe pain, debts, social problems etc.

 

[Sen]

We euthanize animals to end their suffering, but if you're a human you're legally obligated to suffer until your dying breath.

 

[MJv]

We euthanize animals to end their suffering, but if you're a human you're legally obligated to suffer until your dying breath.

In some countries euthanasia is legal.
I also would like that there was help for people suffering. Because people kill themselves in horrible ways or suffer untill their last breath.

 

[Sen]

family & friends will suffer a lot from the loss.

But it's your life, not theirs. Why should you have to suffer forever just so your friends won't have to feel sad for a while? Your parents are the ones who chose to create you, so they should be prepared to carry that burden anyway. Nobody is entitled to your life.

And what about people who have no loved ones? Who is suffering then?

I've never met or heard of some one that killed himself with a perfect life. There must be a reason why they do it.

Of course. The "perfect life" example was hypothetical.

 

[MJv]

But it's your life, not theirs. Why should you have to suffer forever just so your friends won't have to feel sad for a while? Your parents are the ones who chose to create you, so they should be prepared to carry that burden anyway. Nobody is entitled to your life.

And what about people who have no loved ones? Who is suffering then?


Of course. The "perfect life" example was hypothetical.

Yes, it is your life. Again, I am not judging, I am looking into it from general perspective.
And if there are no loved ones, then nobody will suffer.
I don't get your hypothetical part.

 

[grate_biff]

The fact that my ear infection struck JUST as I was finally about to get my life together and learn to love myself is a blow that is near impossible to tolerate.

Again, just like me, also regarding your mental health history!
That is just eerie!

 

[light rain]

@Zenyatta

Actually I did not find your posts offensive. What I did find offensive is someone basically saying "shut up old woman" and others completely dismissing someone's value because of their age. Makes me think too they wouldn't dismiss a man the same way.
The second is that T is not as bad as someone who had no issues and T screwed everything up. T can and does affect people of all ages and abilities. I certainly would not dismiss a senior citizen in a nursing home with bad T by saying who cares their old. That person could be suffering immensely.

And I do think.most of this is people getting upset because they think that encouraging people not to kill themselves equates to delegitimizing their T. I saw no where in the OP anyone saying T isnt so bad. Why are people so insistant they need public approval for their feelings anyway. I think it has more to do with not being thought of as mentally ill (depression) and why is that.

 

[Zenyatta]

@grate_biff Apparently we're the same person, lol.

@light rain Ah, I see. This, though I can explain, as someone who was mentally ill for most of her life: "I think it has more to do with not being thought of as mentally ill (depression) and why is that."

People can be really, really fast to dismiss your issues when you've been diagnosed with a mental illness. I am facing possible blindness in at least one eye because my eye doctors blamed my weirdly deteriorating vision on "stress" and "anxiety" - I was actually in the early stages of a degenerative cornea disease. Three doctors failed to catch it because it was easier to say that I'm anxious. We could have stopped it in its tracks, but no, five years had to pass until it got so bad that I managed to self-diagnose it based on my symptoms, with the help of Reddit. It's horribly patronising and discouraging when you're actually suffering from a non-mental affliction and everyone tells you that it's in your head.

 

[grate_biff]

@grate_biff Apparently we're the same person, lol.

Seems like it
Please don´t tell me you were born in march, 1973?

 

[Zenyatta]

Seems like it
Please don´t tell me you were born in march, 1973?

Hahah, nah. 1985.

 

[light rain]

@grate_biff Apparently we're the same person, lol.

@light rain Ah, I see. This, though I can explain, as someone who was mentally ill for most of her life: "I think it has more to do with not being thought of as mentally ill (depression) and why is that."

People can be really, really fast to dismiss your issues when you've been diagnosed with a mental illness. I am facing possible blindness in at least one eye because my eye doctors blamed my weirdly deteriorating vision on "stress" and "anxiety" - I was actually in the early stages of a degenerative cornea disease. Three doctors failed to catch it because it was easier to say that I'm anxious. We could have stopped it in its tracks, but no, five years had to pass until it got so bad that I managed to self-diagnose it based on my symptoms, with the help of Reddit. It's horribly patronising and discouraging when you're actually suffering from a non-mental affliction and everyone tells you that it's in your head.

I agree but I don't think that is the motivation here. I also had both balance issues fatigue and autoimmune dismissed as depression. When the Dr finally did blood work I had positive antibody. Not even an apology - he actually seemed mad at me. But even without MI labels women esp get dismissed as just being anxious. Also I understand about your concerns with your father. My grandmother, aunt and uncle had an inherited neuro condition. When doing research about the test I failed (ent) it is one of the possibilitied. I asked the Dr outright later and he said it usually doesn't present that way but wants me to see a neuro. One more reason I had for not wanting the MRI. Nothing can be done for it anyway.

 

[Lex]

My key takeaway from this whole thread:

People like Bobbi and Light Rain expect a pat on the back for being oh-so-shiny beacons of hope but as soon as they encounter a different opinion, their true ugly colors show. They don't care about saving lives because if they really did, they would try to see the other side of human experience. But what they really want is to feel good about themselves for believing what they think is the only right thing.

Also funny how they feel like they're being asked to shut up when in the first place, they silenced other people by saying what options they have and don't have. Of course that will elicit reaction. Then they get offended and upset when people react, even resorting to calling me foolish and misguided, and labeling my observation of other people's experiences as BS pontification.

They want confirmation of their goodness and kindness, not a discussion. They can't have a discussion when it's all just the BS pontification of a foolish and misguided young woman, in spite of struggling people like Sen, Telis, and Zenyatta sharing their personal feelings on the matter.

XOXO

 

[Kibakiru]

I have hyperacusis and severe, somatic, non-mask-able, two-toned (more like four-toned) tinnitus of both types (pulsatile & regular) and I'm only 16. I had a life planned out but somewhere along the line, something went wrong, and I choose to live with the consequences of it.

I definitely don't want anybody to take their own life, but suicide is an option and it always will be. It's the choice you make that matters. Now, I don't think people with mild tinnitus should go about planning their funeral because in most cases, it does get better (whether through habituation or not). But it is different for everybody. Nobody really experiences tinnitus in the same way.

I choose to live because I'm young and I want to make use of my life, but that's my choice. I don't fault the people who choose differently. I would never encourage suicide but I also would never strip somebody of the right to die either, especially not if they've tried to live and fallen short every time. It does gets exhausting after a while and sometimes you just don't want to get back up again, and I feel so much for those people. To die takes a lot of courage, and you have to really be suffering to willingly end your own life. If my loved one or friend was suffering so badly, I wouldn't tell them they should stay because I will suffer when they're gone. If that person isn't acting on impulse and knows they want to die, who am I to force them to stay? I will be sad but I know that they will have made the choice that they felt was right for them. Their life, their choice.

When you're suffering and living becomes an obligation to others rather than yourself, then it's not a life. It's a prison.

 

[Mkc28]

@Lex, if you know how bad tinnitus can be, I don't think it matters at what age you get it. I'm 43 and it never crossed my mind that oh well, I only have maybe 40 more years to live with this. The first 5 days was hell for me until I took a benzo! I don't wish this on anybody no matter how young/old they are. My 69 year old mother, I can't imagine her having to deal with something like this with some of her other problems. And the older you are it can be because of hearing loss which they say nothing you can do about it. A younger person who has a better immune system might get better. And they can tolerate the stronger medicines more. But I don't know, just an opinion, and apparently no one else really knows either!

@Zenyatta, I only read a few of your posts but did you say you were given Ativan. If so, did that help? I didn't want to take benzos either but after the fifth day of this hissing noise SCREAMING in my head, my husband talked me into taking one. I kept saying to him I wanted to take a bottle of pills and just go to sleep forever, but on the other hand was afraid to take the benzo's because I read on this site it could make my T worse and I could get addicted. Even though years ago I hadn't taken it. My husband said instead of killing yourself just take the benzo and see what happens and if something happens than we will deal with it then, but we HAVE TO DEAL with what you are going thru now!! It's been 5 weeks and 2 days since I got T. First week was terrible like I said, next three weeks benzo's calmed my T down so much and let me sleep, this week weaning down benzo's and my T is very low. Like I said I've only been dealing with this for 5 weeks, so I can't even imagine having to deal with this for 5 years like you have. One week was crazy enough! And so sorry that your T came back after you habitated. That's scary! My husband got T about 15/20 years ago and he's fine today, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it when it was screaming in my head! I hope you find something that can give you some relief!!

 

[Zenyatta]

@Mkc28 Heyo! My tinnitus was quite mild 2012-2017 so it was never a problem for me. Sure, it was a mild annoyance when I was trying to sleep but nothing more. This massive spike came after a nasty tooth/ear/head infection (can't tell which) combined with extreme stress and I've been struggling ever since, especially with hyperacusis added to the mix. Benzos haven't really quieted my T, they just make me sleep, sorry to say...

 

[Mkc28]

P.s. Sorry I meant even years ago I had taken it. Plus wanted to say I've been on antidepressants years ago also and they do not take the anxiety away instantly like benzo's do. At least the two I tried. Maybe the newer ones are different. One took about 3 weeks, the other longer. You need to take an ativan or Xanax to take anxiety away until AD starts working. Plus AD's never stopped me from having a break thru panic attack either.

 

[Zenyatta]

@Mkc28 Honestly, I hate psychiatric meds with a passion - literally the only reason I'm taking an AD right now is because I desperately need to sleep and it helps with that (agomelatine/Valdoxan). I will absolutely not touch them unless I don't function anymore. Anyway, we're getting a little off-topic here, PM me if you have any questions

 

[Mkc28]

@Zenyatta, yea I've read that it helps some people and others no. I really don't understand that! I also read that if benzo's work it's in your head like stress. And that's bad for me. I'm always worrying about something, my kids, parents getting old, etc. and I feel it might have finally caught up with me with this T. But my doctor thinks my T is because of my sinus/allergies/ears. The Ent. she sent me to, said no but probably TMJ. So she referred me to another Ent. who I haven't seen yet. Wednesday I have an appt. with dentist to do exrays, etc. which scares the heck out of me. My T is low now and don't want it messed up! It is so weird this tinnitus crap! My husband has it but habituated years ago and noise, teeth pulled, etc. etc. has never bothered him. I don't understand!!! Again I can't imagine having to deal with loud T that long! So I can understand your feelings of not wanting to go on because just only 5 days of it was horrible and I thought the same thing, but..........I just hope you find relief!

 

[light rain]

My key takeaway from this whole thread:

People like Bobbi and Light Rain expect a pat on the back for being oh-so-shiny beacons of hope but as soon as they encounter a different opinion, their true ugly colors show. They don't care about saving lives because if they really did, they would try to see the other side of human experience. But what they really want is to feel good about themselves for believing what they think is the only right thing.

Also funny how they feel like they're being asked to shut up when in the first place, they silenced other people by saying what options they have and don't have. Of course that will elicit reaction. Then they get offended and upset when people react, even resorting to calling me foolish and misguided, and labeling my observation of other people's experiences as BS pontification.

They want confirmation of their goodness and kindness, not a discussion. They can't have a discussion when it's all just the BS pontification of a foolish and misguided young woman, in spite of struggling people like Sen, Telis, and Zenyatta sharing their personal feelings on the matter.

XOXO

Seems like you're the one who is projecting. The IP never was about judging people for feeling suicidal or about euthanasia. You turned it into that so you could have a platform. You're the one who got irate first when someone didnt share your worldview and then disparaged them because of their age.

I knew my posts were not going to be well received but I'm more concerned about desperate people rather than likes. I dont post anything telling people things will get better either. I walked for many years with one hand on the escape hatch (pre T and pre being widowed). To claim I'm judge.ental about it makes no sense really. But I do know how fragile and vulnerable someone can be and how emotions can turn things on a dime. I know about being in a whirl wind where intellectual arguments are not just unhelpful but dangerous. So at what point does your free speech endanger another esp if you are part of team awareness. If that has nothing to do with TT then it is your opnion. If not you are adding a note of officialness and dragging the forum into it.

And whether anyone thinks suicide is right or wrong is just an intellectual argument when juxtaposed with the real.life ramifications for family and community. Children of suicide victims are often significantly affected for life incl committing suicide themselves. Sometimes not until they also have kids then affecting another generation. Even on here mention of a T sufferer commiting suicide is greeted with sadness not high fives.

 

[japongus]

Habituation will happen! It will! But it requires the tenacity and patience for this to occur. To simply give in to despair is to surrender to defeat without a fight.

You sound pretty clueless. JL Pulec severed cochlear nerves and a good bunch of tinnitus went away with it. Other people are getting paper patching for the eardrum and weird solutions up their eustachian tube, with the rational that the tensor tympani can vibrate 50 times a second causing tinnitus. Others are being told they have hyperacusis in the form of distortion because the ear-end of their eustachian tube is open, but that it's easy to miss as most ENTs don't know the technique to spot it. This is all a far-cry from the Esalen retreats all the sound therapists are sending you to telling you tinnitus and distortion is a limbic thing. It seems obvious that this is a physiological thing in its purest sense, so what exactly are you habituating to ROFL! Tell me, you're willing your eustachian tube back into place? You're silencing your tensor tympani? Because that's what would be required as this isn't a sensitivity thing, it isn't a limbic thing, it's purely a reactive distortion thing. And if it's a neurological thing, it's still not a limbic thing. Ask any specialist in acoustics what happens when you pass sound through a place that's noisy when it should be quiet, it reverberates too much. Seems obvious the only thing you're habituating to is Jastreboff's nonsense.

 

[MJv]

You sound pretty clueless. JL Pulec severed cochlear nerves and a good bunch of tinnitus went away with it. Other people are getting paper patching for the eardrum and weird solutions up their eustachian tube, with the rational that the tensor tympani can vibrate 50 times a second causing tinnitus. Others are being told they have hyperacusis in the form of distortion because the ear-end of their eustachian tube is open, but that it's easy to miss as most ENTs don't know the technique to spot it. This is all a far-cry from the Esalen retreats all the sound therapists are sending you to telling you tinnitus and distortion is a limbic thing. It seems obvious that this is a physiological thing in its purest sense, so what exactly are you habituating to ROFL! Tell me, you're willing your eustachian tube back into place? You're silencing your tensor tympani? Because that's what would be required as this isn't a sensitivity thing, it isn't a limbic thing, it's purely a reactive distortion thing. And if it's a neurological thing, it's still not a limbic thing. Ask any specialist in acoustics what happens when you pass sound through a place that's noisy when it should be quiet, it reverberates too much. Seems obvious the only thing you're habituating to is Jastreboff's nonsense.

How do we stop the reverberation?

 

[PaulBe]

How do we stop the reverberation?

Japongus is talking about a whole field of Audiological study that could be full of potential diagnostic and treatment options, and yet the top has barely been knocked off this because Sound Therapy (TM) has been elevated to a position of being the be-all and end-all to the near complete exclusion of other possibilities. There are no doubt people for whom sound therapies will do an adequate job to allow them to get on with life if their condition is such, and their mental state hasn't been overturned, but there are others for whom this isn't the case at all, many of whom spend a lot of time here. This is where suicidal ideation lurks because it appears to be the only escape. None of us want to die, but when it appears to be the only way out it starts to look attractive. The only way to "stop" it is to demand of well-paid ENT's that they do more than pat you on the head and send you away 200 dollars lighter, and do their ethically-required job of identifying and ruling out all reversible causes. Hell, most of them aren't even familiar with sound therapy as a treatment let alone any other potential treatments.

 

[Michael Leigh]

This thread has generated a lot of discussion on the subject of tinnitus and suicide. I am a positive thinking person and try to make my posts convey this. I am also a realist and know, there is a very dark side to tinnitus that is not often talked about and that some people do not like to face. I have counselled many people new to tinnitus, that tell me they've overcome many obstacles in their life but find it just too overwhelming. Often they have been in a highly emotional state and full of despair at not knowing what tomorrow will bring. Fortunately with time, most habituate and are able to carry on with their lives.

This doesn't take away the fact that some people find tinnitus very debilitating when it is severe and especially when this level of intensity is sustained for long periods. One has to experience this to know the depths tinnitus can take a person to. I have been there and know full well what it is capable of doing. For this reason I understand the disquiet and unease felt amongst some members in this thread.

As a positive thinking person I am always looking outwards even in my downtimes and believe tomorrow will be a brighter day. The alternative to wallow in self-pity and to be negative and I'm not ready to throw the towel in just yet. This doesn't mean I don't ever feel negative when my tinnitus is loud and intrusive; I just try not to make it consume me, as everything has to be kept in balance. One of the ways I achieve this is to look within and focus on the positive things in my life. I encourage others to do the same and to look at the big picture.

The Big Picture

Tinnitus can affect us in a variety of ways. One of the most difficult hurdles for some to get over is to stop thinking of their past. The way life used to be before the onset of the condition. If we are not careful this can cause stress, anxiety and in some instances delay the habitation process. Understandably, a person wants everything to be as it once was but sometimes this is easier said than done.

If the tinnitus was caused by exposure to loud noise, which is often the case and not an underlying medical problem, this could be another cause for concern, as some people might constantly berate themselves. Thinking what they are enduring could have been so easily avoidable if they had known of the potential risks involved and what the eventual outcome would have been. Many times I have been on the phone listening to someone say: if I hadn't gone out clubbing so much or listened to music through headphones at such high volumes then I wouldn't be going through this terrible ordeal now. As compassionate as one might try, it is not so easy to convince someone they are not to blame, when their own conscience has decided they are judge and jury. The benefits of hindsight can be a wonderful thing it's just unfortunate we haven't the ability of foresight too.

Of course not all loud noise exposure is avoidable because a person might just happen to be in a particular place or situation at the wrong time. Nevertheless, some people do find themselves at a crossroads and not knowing how to get over the stumbling block that's set before them and therefore, I have a few suggestions.

We cannot change the past because what has happened has happened. No matter how many times we replay that scene in our mind it will remain unchanged. I believe it's a total waste of time and energy to keep reliving it. Lay it to rest and forget it and move on. However, we can do something about our future because it hasn't been written yet and there is a world out there and you're a part of it. Put your mind in gear and start thinking what you're able to do with your tinnitus instead of thinking what you're unable to do. The positive vibe will come through with time, patience and determination.

It is the important things in your life that really matter so hold on to them. In essence I am saying to look at the big picture. This will give you clarity, perception and will cut a clear path that will enable you to see where you want to go in life.

Michael

 

[Tinker Bell]

You sound pretty clueless. JL Pulec severed cochlear nerves and a good bunch of tinnitus went away with it. Other people are getting paper patching for the eardrum and weird solutions up their eustachian tube, with the rational that the tensor tympani can vibrate 50 times a second causing tinnitus. Others are being told they have hyperacusis in the form of distortion because the ear-end of their eustachian tube is open, but that it's easy to miss as most ENTs don't know the technique to spot it. This is all a far-cry from the Esalen retreats all the sound therapists are sending you to telling you tinnitus and distortion is a limbic thing. It seems obvious that this is a physiological thing in its purest sense, so what exactly are you habituating to ROFL! Tell me, you're willing your eustachian tube back into place? You're silencing your tensor tympani? Because that's what would be required as this isn't a sensitivity thing, it isn't a limbic thing, it's purely a reactive distortion thing. And if it's a neurological thing, it's still not a limbic thing. Ask any specialist in acoustics what happens when you pass sound through a place that's noisy when it should be quiet, it reverberates too much. Seems obvious the only thing you're habituating to is Jastreboff's nonsense.

You've touched on something that I keep wondering about when others encourage TRT and sound machines. I have hearing loss, a nearly straight down drop from 0 decibels at one frequency to 75 decibels at the next ones.

How would sound therapy help? The tinnitus isn't going to decrease or go away, it's caused by my hearing loss. Even the world's greatest white noise machine isn't going to bring back my hearing. And using a white noise machine for an ear that is struggling to hear correctly, well that seems kind of odd too. The sounds are distorted. Listening to a constant loud ring is annoying. Listening to a constant loud ring and distorted pink noise is doubly annoying.

Sorry, I realize this is a tangent and I'm just venting.

 

[Bobbie7]

You sound pretty clueless. JL Pulec severed cochlear nerves and a good bunch of tinnitus went away with it. Other people are getting paper patching for the eardrum and weird solutions up their eustachian tube, with the rational that the tensor tympani can vibrate 50 times a second causing tinnitus. Others are being told they have hyperacusis in the form of distortion because the ear-end of their eustachian tube is open, but that it's easy to miss as most ENTs don't know the technique to spot it. This is all a far-cry from the Esalen retreats all the sound therapists are sending you to telling you tinnitus and distortion is a limbic thing. It seems obvious that this is a physiological thing in its purest sense, so what exactly are you habituating to ROFL! Tell me, you're willing your eustachian tube back into place? You're silencing your tensor tympani? Because that's what would be required as this isn't a sensitivity thing, it isn't a limbic thing, it's purely a reactive distortion thing. And if it's a neurological thing, it's still not a limbic thing. Ask any specialist in acoustics what happens when you pass sound through a place that's noisy when it should be quiet, it reverberates too much. Seems obvious the only thing you're habituating to is Jastreboff's nonsense.

You are good at mocking someone. What else can you do?

 

[Bobbie7]

And whether anyone thinks suicide is right or wrong is just an intellectual argument when juxtaposed with the real.life ramifications for family and community. Children of suicide victims are often significantly affected for life incl committing suicide themselves. Sometimes not until they also have kids then affecting another generation. Even on here mention of a T sufferer commiting suicide is greeted with sadness not high fives.

You have made a very salient point. When my husband was a young boy, his maternal grandmother committed suicide. She went to the roof of her 6th floor building and jumped off to her death. I am sure I don't have to explain the aftermath which ensued amongst her children and it most definitely affected my mother-in-law who remained profoundly sad and altered throughout her entire life. It left an indelible psychological mark upon my husband as well naturally.