Theatres/Performances/Laughing and Clapping People

[Alue]

The NRR is only valid when they are rolled and deeply inserted. Nothing should stick out of your ear. The foam ones are around 30db because they are like having a pillow over your head. They reduce the sound a lot more than my ACS pro 26 but to the point where you can't hear anything clearly.

Funnily enough I have a 10db filter for my ACS plugs and they are no where near the strength of the foam ones such as Hearos.

10db is a subtle but noticeable reduction.

The NRR is also assuming a perfect fit which is not only determined by proper use but also assuming everyone's ear canal is the same size and shape. I'm pretty sure my ear canals are larger in diameter than normal.

 

[Ed209]

The NRR is also assuming a perfect fit which is not only determined by proper use but also assuming everyone's ear canal is the same size and shape. I'm pretty sure my ear canals are larger in diameter than normal.

That's true, although Hearos are massive. I found them uncomfortably large when they expand in your ear.

 

[Alue]

That's true, although Hearos are massive. I found them uncomfortably large when they expand in your ear.

I have been using the hearos xtreme. I agree they are uncomfortable but they are the only ones that seem to give me a notable reduction.
I wish I could use those reusable plugs that don't filter out everything, but they don't seem to fit.

I was wearing heros the other day when working around loud equipment for a few hours, but it still seemed to set me off, and it was uncomfortably loud while I was working around it. Ear muffs were not an option in this situation. I'm really hoping this spike isn't permanent and I didn't do more damage.

 

[Ed209]

I have been using the hearos xtreme. I agree they are uncomfortable but they are the only ones that seem to give me a notable reduction.
I wish I could use those reusable plugs that don't filter out everything, but they don't seem to fit.

I was wearing heros the other day when working around loud equipment for a few hours, but it still seemed to set me off, and it was uncomfortably loud while I was working around it. Ear muffs were not an option in this situation. I'm really hoping this spike isn't permanent and I didn't do more damage.

If it was uncomfortably loud with Hearos deeply inserted then whatever you was doing must have been pretty loud. Industrial ear defenders that go over your head would be your best bet in a situation like that. You can double up with muffs and ear plugs underneath, although you can get some really strong ear muffs in which case just use those.

For now though I'd relax and avoid loud environments or wear stronger protection if you are in a similar situation.

I don't really like the universal filter style ones you can buy such as Alpines. I find them uncomfortable and don't like the fact they stick out of your ear. I also have some ACS ER-20's which are even worse, the stem is far too long. I'm always conscious that someone could knock into the stem and jab them deep into my ear. Although I don't like them I still have some as backup and would still use them if that's all I had.

For industrial noise I'd use muffs without a doubt. For clubs, bars and concerts I'd recommend staying away from speakers and using professional molded earplugs.

 

[Alue]

If it was uncomfortably loud with Hearos deeply inserted then whatever you was doing must have been pretty loud. Industrial ear defenders that go over your head would be your best bet in a situation like that. You can double up with muffs and ear plugs underneath, although you can get some really strong ear muffs in which case just use those.

For now though I'd relax and avoid loud environments or wear stronger protection if you are in a similar situation.

I don't really like the universal filter style ones you can buy such as Alpines. I find them uncomfortable and don't like the fact they stick out of your ear. I also have some ACS ER-20's which are even worse, the stem is far too long. I'm always conscious that someone could knock into the stem and jab them deep into my ear. Although I don't like them I still have some as backup and would still use them if that's all I had.

For industrial noise I'd use muffs without a doubt. For clubs, bars and concerts I'd recommend staying away from speakers and using professional molded earplugs.

Thanks, I do have over the head industrial muffs, they work great, but this was in a situation where they were not an option. My hearing felt a little off afterwards and two days later my T seems louder. Similar experience to my original acoustic trauma a month ago although that was a short 'impulse' noise that set everything off.

This is something that would be loud to me before the T, but not uncomfortable. So I don't know if it could do further damage.

 

[Telis]

@Telis

If that's the case why ever leave your house? Just stay in a padded room because life goes a lot louder on a day to day basis then sitting in a theatre listening to people talk. Some times it gets beyond ridiculous on here, there are genuine situations that need addressing such as concerts, clubs, loud bars, shooting ranges etc. These are situations to cause genuine concern. They are dangerously loud and WILL damage your hearing if you are not careful. Make sure you wear earplugs to protect yourself.

When the decibels barely touch 80 you are safe no matter if your ears are damaged or not. You can stay a long time in an environment around 60-75db, there is no scientific paper out there that proves or suggests otherwise.

The point is she was in a theatre environment (a play) with earplugs in. Totally safe. Anyone suggesting otherwise is talking total nonsense. If you deem that to be dangerous then most people on here would require earplugs most days during their normal routine.

We really need to address this as much as addressing the danger of loud sound, because it becomes a breeding ground for phonophobia and hyperacusis if people go too far with protection.

I have the same Alpine earplugs that the OP used, and if you use them in an environment that's not too loud, they can spike your T. This is because they block a lot of sound out (they don't filter very well and the foam ones don't filter at all) which increases the noise in your head. Same as if you go into a really quiet room/soundproof room. Your T will get louder, guaranteed. When you take them out you instantly notice the amplified T, at least I did in my case when using Alpines and Hearos in the past. The shock of hearing the aggressive T can send you off on another panic attack, which in turn starts off another feedback loop of listening to your T and giving it attention.

When my T first spiked and became intrusive I went protection crazy to the point where I'd say I became unhealthily obsessed. We went out one day with my girlfriends parents (her mom is a senior audiologist) and I had some Hearos on me. We went into a restaurant and I was panicking saying it's dangerous to be in here and she assured me it was fine; told me not to use any earplugs as it wasn't loud. I didn't listen and deeply inserted them (rolled and done properly). After we finished and I took them out I couldn't believe how loud my T was, it really depressed me and I remember having a truly awful week. She basically told me that I shouldn't have used them because it wasn't very loud in there and I was basically amplifying my head noise by having them in. She was right. After that I got myself some custom ACS earplugs with 3 different filters and a blanking cap to totally block them. They are far superior because they don't completely block the sound.

Sorry for the long ramble but that's how I see things. Getting yourself paranoid and obsessed about all sound is just as bad as not protecting yourself when things are loud. It's simply not healthy for your mind and if you do think like that then you will always be thinking about T. Hearing T and thinking about T are two totally different things. You can get to a stage where you hear it but you don't hear it because you don't acknowledge it/zone it out. I'm still not 100% there but for the life of me I'm trying.

Okay so you have nothing to back up your claims then?

Why does it get "beyond ridiculous" here?Are you trying to embarrass or shame people into not sharing their stories because they don't match your personal opinions and experiences?

 

[Ed209]

Okay so you have nothing to back up your claims then?

What claims Telis? It's just common sense. If you were right then we would all need earplugs round the clock because we are exposed to a 60-75db range every day of the week. Most the population would have T under those circumstances. The vast majority of T sufferers who's cause is noise trauma are musicians, military, industry workers and frequent clubbers/DJs. All of which are constantly exposed to noise above 90db and well into the 100s.

There is absolutely no way a person can be in danger of damaging their ears in an environment that mainly consists of actors talking whilst wearing earplugs. I suspect the average decibel intake of the OP was around 60db, maybe with peaks of 68db. I very much doubt it even went over 70db. What planet do some of you guys live on if you think that's damaging? Sometimes I really feel for any new sufferers who may drop by and read some of the awful advise that's on here. Thankfully most of it is good, but occasionally there are posts that just stun me.

Just carry on living your lives people! Do your very best to be who you always were, just use caution with your new found knowledge of how delicate our ears can be. Tinnitus will absolutely piss you off, depress you and give you anxiety, but don't stop living because of it! To the OP, if you like the theatre then go, if it's what you did before do it now. If things get loud, put your ear plugs in, simple. You are safe at the levels you were exposed to. The worst thing you can do is let T dictate your life, because you will never get over it.

If you walk into a loud bar or a concert that is in the real danger zone, the kind of volume where you can no longer hear people speak in front of you then you have a choice, leave for another bar or wear the appropriate protection for the kind of volume you're dealing with. I wouldn't hesitate to wear ear muffs at a concert if it was required, it's my life I'll damn sure live it without surrender. And if they're good enough for Paul Gilbert they're good enough for me. There is no shame.

 

[Telis]

What claims Telis? It's just common sense. If you were right then we would all need earplugs round the clock because we are exposed to a 60-75db range every day of the week. Most the population would have T under those circumstances. The vast majority of T sufferers who's cause is noise trauma are musicians, military, industry workers and frequent clubbers/DJs. All of which are constantly exposed to noise above 90db and well into the 100s.

There is absolutely no way a person can be in danger of damaging their ears in an environment that mainly consists of actors talking whilst wearing earplugs. I suspect the average decibel intake of the OP was around 60db, maybe with peaks of 68db. I very much doubt it even went over 70db. What planet do some of you guys live on if you think that's damaging? Sometimes I really feel for any new sufferers who may drop by and read some of the awful advise that's on here. Thankfully most of it is good, but occasionally there are posts that just stun me.

Just carry on living your lives people! Do your very best to be who you always were, just use caution with your new found knowledge of how delicate our ears can be. Tinnitus will absolutely piss you off, depress you and give you anxiety, but don't stop living because of it! To the OP, if you like the theatre then go, if it's what you did before do it now. If things get loud, put your ear plugs in, simple. You are safe at the levels you were exposed to. The worst thing you can do is let T dictate your life, because you will never get over it.

If you walk into a loud bar or a concert that is in the real danger zone, the kind of volume where you can no longer hear people speak in front of you then you have a choice, leave for another bar or wear the appropriate protection for the kind of volume you're dealing with. I wouldn't hesitate to wear ear muffs at a concert if it was required, it's my life I'll damn sure live it without surrender. And if they're good enough for Paul Gilbert they're good enough for me. There is no shame.

Im talking about your claims about how much noise is acceptable for a damaged ear.

Now it's "what planet do some of you guys live on". Keep em rolling man, you are a real class act for calling people down that suffer. Maybe if you keep going no one will post about their experiences at all!?

 

[dboy]

These days I get spikes all the time from little stuff like riding in the car or being out walking when it is a little windy. I think it is unlikely that I am getting hearing damage when I get these spikes, but the spikes are real elevations of my t volume that can last several days. They are definitely in no way related to anxiety - even when I have them I only really get anxious if they go on a couple of weeks. But I don't like them.

I didn't used to get spikes so easily. In August last year I had a really bad one that lasted a month and a half or so. Since that went away my ears have been much more reactive and sensitive to noise, getting spikes much easier and more often.

I'm sure it is safe to say that spikes can be caused by noise levels that are not loud enough to cause permanent damage. They can be unpleasant and are worth avoiding if they cause somebody distress. I personally tend to see them as a warning that something is not entirely safe for my ears, while trying not to get too stressed about it.

The worst thing you can do is let T dictate your life, because you will never get over it.

That is a personal judgement we all have to make for ourselves. For me the worst thing I could do is to get complacent and get another increase in t volume. It has happened before, and I really don't want it to happen ever again.

@Ed209, just because something does not cause you a problem, that does not mean it is not a problem for anyone else. Everybody has their own experiences. Damage affects different people's ears in different ways.

 

[Ed209]

I get spikes when I use ear plugs and when I exercise, sometimes it's pretty bad but I've just learnt to expect it. It's seems to be something that's unavoidable if you have intrusive T.

I certainly wouldn't advise someone on a forum that a play could have potentially damaged their ears. That's when it gets a bit ludicrous. No offence to you Telis but that's just how I see it. What's the alternative miss the theatre and stay at home and listen to your T instead? Its another story entirely if the OP was referring to a concert or something similar, those situations are up to the individual because that is when you are dealing with dangerous levels. Completely a personal choice then, avoid or go with proper hearing protection.

 

[Zorro!]

Okay so you have nothing to back up your claims then?

Why does it get "beyond ridiculous" here?Are you trying to embarrass or shame people into not sharing their stories because they don't match your personal opinions and experiences?

What is the point of the OP "sharing her story" if not to elicit feedback? That's exactly what she asked for and exactly what she got. In fact, she didn't just get feedback, she got damn good objective feedback. She's clearly experiencing stress and anxiety as evinced by her own words. This is an objective fact of reality. This can't be denied. Go back and reread her posts in this thread because the proof is right there.

Look, the bottom line Telis is that no one is trying to embarrass or shame anyone here. We all suffer from this damn affliction and we all know how horrible it is. We also know that each of us goes through periods of pointless anxiety and audio-paranoia that if left unchecked can make our situations worse. So it is helpful to tell the OP that she is worrying too much about this theater event she attended. Her anxiety needs to be addressed as a causal factor in her distress. To claim it's not is just ludicrous.

And if the OP's not happy to get logical, legitimate feedback then she should never have started this thread in the first place. After all, it's rude and insulting to those of us who truly want to help her to have our advice dismissed, and even ridiculed, because it's not what she (or you) wants to hear.

That said, I sincerely wish nothing but the best for the OP.

 

[dboy]

What is the point of the OP "sharing her story" if not to elicit feedback? That's exactly what she asked for and exactly what she got. In fact, she didn't just get feedback, she got damn good objective feedback. She's clearly experiencing stress and anxiety as evinced by her own words. This is an objective fact of reality. This can't be denied.

And if the OP's not happy to get logical, legitimate feedback then she should never have started this thread in the first place. After all, it's rude and insulting to those of us who truly want to help her to have our advice dismissed, and even ridiculed, because it's not what she (or you) wants to hear.

Hey, Zorro, you're clearly trying to help, and that is great. But I don't think it is accurate to say the feedback you gave is "objective". Surely it is a subjective opinion just like any other?

Moreover, your subjective opinion contradicts the OP about the content of her own experience. This in itself is not a supportive thing to do unless it is done very gently. It could easily come across as kind of argumentative. I don't mean to attack you when you are trying to help, but hey, logical, legitimate feedback is what we are talking about, right? So can I discuss briefly the following comment:

From what I can tell you are causing the spike by needlessly worrying about an event that doesn't sound aurally traumatic at all.

Now, this seems to me to be speculation. Gosia might be worrying about her spike, but it does not follow from this that her spike is caused by the worrying. It might be, but that is not in any way established. It is a guess. As I said above and as most of us know, spikes can be caused by noise exposure that is not loud enough to cause damage. This seems to be what Gosia thinks caused her spike and I see no reason to contradict her. Indeed, I see a good reason not to contradict her: she is already not in a great place with having the spike, and being contradicted about your own experience is kind of insulting.

Regardless of manners, what Gosia says in her own words seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable appraisal of the situation, not in need of any modification:

I agree that it will probably pass..but I can't agree that it's me who provoked it with thinking anyhow - I 'm alaways stressed the same about the possible damage when I'm about to do sth loud - lately it was the dentist. Still, since I didn't notice any spike after the drilling , I was ok..same after the plane. I mean, if sth inluences my t level in a negative way it's surely not my stress about the damage - I stay optimistic and always assume there won't be any rather than the opposite. Of course, I was monitoring , but since when I left the venue I stated no change, I wasn't thinking about it any longer. Then when I laid I simply heard it louder, without looking for it.. My T is quite reactive..

@Gosia, sorry to hear about your spike. And apologies for getting argumentative on your support thread. I think you are right that it will pass and I hope you feel better soon.

 

[Zorro!]

Hey, Zorro, you're clearly trying to help, and that is great. But I don't think it is accurate to say the feedback you gave is "objective". Surely it is a subjective opinion just like any other?

Moreover, your subjective opinion contradicts the OP about the content of her own experience. This in itself is not a supportive thing to do unless it is done very gently. It could easily come across as kind of argumentative. I don't mean to attack you when you are trying to help, but hey, logical, legitimate feedback is what we are talking about, right? So can I discuss briefly the following comment:


Now, this seems to me to be speculation. Gosia might be worrying about her spike, but it does not follow from this that her spike is caused by the worrying. It might be, but that is not in any way established. It is a guess. As I said above and as most of us know, spikes can be caused by noise exposure that is not loud enough to cause damage. This seems to be what Gosia thinks caused her spike and I see no reason to contradict her. Indeed, I see a good reason not to contradict her: she is already not in a great place with having the spike, and being contradicted about your own experience is kind of insulting.

Regardless of manners, what Gosia says in her own words seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable appraisal of the situation, not in need of any modification:



@Gosia, sorry to hear about your spike. And apologies for getting argumentative on your support thread. I think you are right that it will pass and I hope you feel better soon.

@dboy

Whether or not her spike was caused by self-induced anxiety really isn't that important. What is important is that she is suffering. That suffering is not made better by doing whatever it is you suggest doing -- which is essentially nothing. In effect you simply hope for her to get better but offer nothing in the way of alleviating her admitted anxiety and distress.

Meanwhile several of us in this thread have tried to help by pointing out that she has needlessly focused too much attention onto the theater performance; exhibiting a hyper-preoccupation even before she attended the event. One doesn't have to be Carl Jung to know this is not mentally healthy.

Gosia is not helping herself by obsessing over this matter. Several of us are trying to get her to see that. We've been in her shoes. We understand her pain. Therefore we want her to get relief. We want her to be happy and healthy again. We want her to see that the problem isn't just tinnitus but her mental reaction to it, which is clearly stuck in hyper-drive at this point. We're trying to help her get it back under control.

But for some odd reason you think that advising a person to address the mental issue they are having is the wrong tack to take and that "hope" is the answer to her problem. M'kay. Good luck with that.

P.S. *I should point out that your criticism of my approach is as "subjective" as what you accuse me of, if not more so. I referenced objective facts, i.e. Gosia's own words in this thread, yet you conveniently overlook that because that fact of objective reality ruins your critique of me. Words have definitions. They convey specific meanings. You really should understand the definitions of words you use (such as the words "subjective" and "objective") before you use them. This would go a long way in legitimizing your arguments...whatever the heck those are.

 

[Telis]

I get spikes when I use ear plugs and when I exercise, sometimes it's pretty bad but I've just learnt to expect it. It's seems to be something that's unavoidable if you have intrusive T.

I certainly wouldn't advise someone on a forum that a play could have potentially damaged their ears. That's when it gets a bit ludicrous. No offence to you Telis but that's just how I see it. What's the alternative miss the theatre and stay at home and listen to your T instead? Its another story entirely if the OP was referring to a concert or something similar, those situations are up to the individual because that is when you are dealing with dangerous levels. Completely a personal choice then, avoid or go with proper hearing protection.

I don't know that I'm "advising" anything? I think that you are are doing all the advising. All I'm doing is suggesting that the OP tinnitus spike may not necessarily be caused by anxiety (especially since she had stated that she was NOT anxious) and could easily be caused by noise.

The other question that I had was how do you know what causes what as far as noise exposure. You have given me nothing but your opinions, so no offense, but you are just some know it all dude posting on the Internet about how they "absolutely" know this and that, I need a more credible source than this. Lol. I thought that maybe you had some real information to share, this is the reason that I enquiried. It turns out you have nothing.

Thanks for all your opinions though, next time, maybe don't state your opinions like they are facts, it just adds more confusion than anything. Let's stick to the facts, less talking out the ass please.

Thank you.

 

[dboy]

Meanwhile several of us in this thread have tried to help by pointing out that she has needlessly focused too much attention onto the theater performance; exhibiting a hyper-preoccupation even before she attended the event. One doesn't have to be Carl Jung to know this is not mentally healthy.

"Hyper-preoccupation?" That sounds impressive. Except that before the event Gosia simply asked for opinions and experiences, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Here is the "hyper-preoccupation" in action:

I'm going for usure. If people laugh too loud, I will put ear plugs instantly. If they don't, voices of actors surely can't do any harm. I'll let you know tonight how it was

---

Gosia is not helping herself by obsessing over this matter. Several of us are trying to get her to see that. We've been in her shoes. We understand her pain. Therefore we want her to get relief. We want her to be happy and healthy again. We want her to see that the problem isn't just tinnitus but her mental reaction to it, which is clearly stuck in hyper-drive at this point. We're trying to help her get it back under control.

Yes, most of us have had spikes. Most of us know that they go down again. Gosia knows that they go down again ("I agree that it will probably pass"). Unfortunately her spike was louder than she has had before - loud enough to stop her sleeping - and she was having a hard time with it. Her mental reaction might be part of the problem she is having, but that is a world away from saying that her mental reaction caused the problem. The distinction is important.
---

But for some odd reason you think that advising a person to address the mental issue they are having is the wrong tack to take and that "hope" is the answer to her problem. M'kay. Good luck with that.

I think that offering someone support to deal with anxiety is a very good tack to take. But as I keep on pointing out, contradicting what somebody tells you about their own experience is not. It feels insulting. It feels like being undermined and/or disrespected. Gosia has not been on the forum since Thursday night. Why might that be? I don't know the answer, but I think it is worth wondering. Maybe your approach is not the greatest success?
---

P.S. *I should point out that your criticism of my approach is as "subjective" as what you accuse me of, if not more so. I referenced objective facts, i.e. Gosia's own words in this thread, yet you conveniently overlook that because that fact of objective reality ruins your critique of me. Words have definitions. They convey specific meanings. You really should understand the definitions of words you use (such as the words "subjective" and "objective") before you use them. This would go a long way in legitimizing your arguments...whatever the heck those are.

Oh dear.

Of course there is subjective opinion in my post - but I made no claim to objectivity, whereas you did. And as I demonstrated, your suggestion that Gosia was "causing the spike by needlessly worrying" did not follow logically from the "objective reality" that you lay claim to. It was a guess, as I pointed out, and I note that you cannot logically dispute that.

I think it is you who have misused the words subjective and objective, by making a claim to objectivity that I did not (despite me making greater use of logic and clear thinking). Objectivity is not achievable in this context. I understand that, but it seems you do not.

Since you seem to have had trouble understanding, here is my argument one more time:

Support is great; contradicting what people tell you about their own experience is not great. Simple really.

 

[Ed209]

Look this thread is obviously going no where. All I'm saying is that I've never heard any audiologist, ENT or scientific paper say that circa 70db is dangerous to your ears. This is based on talking to 3 audiologists and an ENT.

There's plenty of information online about the dangers of sound, but there is also plenty of information on avoiding all sound as well. Limiting what your hear or fearing sound all the time when its in a relatively safe zone can be just as detrimental. You will put your brain through a lot of threshold shifts and a lot of anxiety if you put yourself into a frame of mind that safe sounds are something to be avoided.

If I come across as some know it all then that's not my intention. It's just that when I read that it's possible that the theatre could have caused damage, I'd disagree based on what she said, purely based on the info I've been told from various experts. If you think otherwise I'll respect what you say and leave it up to the OP to make their own mind up and leave it at that.

This is a decent article on all things T.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/883205O/tinnitus-and-hearing-protection-fiction-and-fact.pdf?fn=Tinnitus Article 032011.pdf

 

[dboy]

Look this thread is obviously going no where.

Issues about how support is given have been raised in this thread and I hope that is valuable in some way. However clearly there is little point us getting too argumentative.

It's just that when I read that it's possible that the theatre could have caused damage, I'd disagree

I had a quick flip through the thread and I couldn't find anyone saying that. P'raps I missed it?

Like Gosia and yourself, I doubt that her spike will be permanent, and that is the most important thing. Without wishing to reignite disagreement, let me just quote a short passage from the article you posted, purely for the goal of establishing that nothing is clearcut and that too much complacency is risky:

If immediately following a noise exposure you experience increased or sudden onset of tinnitus, or if your hearing seems muffled or fuzzy, the noise was too loud. Regular exposures like that will probably lead to hearing loss and/or permanent or increased tinnitus.

 

[Ed209]

There's some good advice in that article I posted. One part that stands out in particular is this extract:

More is better?

Not always. People use hearing protection for many different reasons and in many environments: to protect hearing from hazardous occupational noise, while shooting firearms, to improve their ability to concentrate on reading in an airport, or perhaps to sleep during the day when neighborhood children are playing outside. Some of these situations require hearing protection to reduce noise to a safe level, but others simply use hearing protection to block out unwanted or annoying sounds. Interestingly, people with tinnitus often rely on background noise to interfere with the sound of the tinnitus. Limiting the background noise with hearing protection may make the tinnitus seem more noticeable. This is likely to be more of a problem in low-noise environments or with hearing protectors that provide more noise reduction. When noise is loud enough to require hearing protection for safety reasons (greater than 85 dBA), the hearing protection can block hazardous noise while still allowing enough sound to pass to still provide distraction from the tinnitus. Remember, changes to the awareness of the tinnitus due to the use of hearing protection are temporary; using hearing protection appropriately will prevent long-term noise-induced damage and potential worsening of the tinnitus.

The amount of noise reduction needed depends on both the purpose for using hearing protection and the background noise level. To decide if "more is better" think about the reason you are using hearing protection and choose a product that works for that specific environment. Many noise exposures only require about 10 dB of noise reduction for adequate protection from noise damage. So, unless you simply prefer the extra quieting that maximum noise reduction will provide, you can choose a product with lower noise reduction and not be troubled by being isolated from the sounds around you.

 

[Zorro!]

"Hyper-preoccupation?" That sounds impressive. Except that before the event Gosia simply asked for opinions and experiences, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Here is the "hyper-preoccupation" in action:
---

Yes, most of us have had spikes. Most of us know that they go down again. Gosia knows that they go down again ("I agree that it will probably pass"). Unfortunately her spike was louder than she has had before - loud enough to stop her sleeping - and she was having a hard time with it. Her mental reaction might be part of the problem she is having, but that is a world away from saying that her mental reaction caused the problem. The distinction is important.
---

I think that offering someone support to deal with anxiety is a very good tack to take. But as I keep on pointing out, contradicting what somebody tells you about their own experience is not. It feels insulting. It feels like being undermined and/or disrespected. Gosia has not been on the forum since Thursday night. Why might that be? I don't know the answer, but I think it is worth wondering. Maybe your approach is not the greatest success?
---

Oh dear.

Of course there is subjective opinion in my post - but I made no claim to objectivity, whereas you did. And as I demonstrated, your suggestion that Gosia was "causing the spike by needlessly worrying" did not follow logically from the "objective reality" that you lay claim to. It was a guess, as I pointed out, and I note that you cannot logically dispute that.

I think it is you who have misused the words subjective and objective, by making a claim to objectivity that I did not (despite me making greater use of logic and clear thinking). Objectivity is not achievable in this context. I understand that, but it seems you do not.

Since you seem to have had trouble understanding, here is my argument one more time:

Support is great; contradicting what people tell you about their own experience is not great. Simple really.

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I was interested in a pointless argument. I'm not. And certainly not with someone who openly admits to being non-objective and who denies facts of reality such as the OP's own statements. There is absolutely no value in such an endeavor and would only serve to feed your neurotic need for argument. That is not healthy for me or for you or for the OP.

Best wishes always.

 

[Ed209]

@Gosia

Just to summarise; it's highly improbable that you caused yourself any hearing damage based on the levels you described, even if the app you used was accurate. It's more likely the app ran around 10db high though, which means there's a chance you may have over protected your ears which caused a spike. I've had it happen to me many times when using ear plugs.

More to the point though, how are you feeling now?

 

[Gosia]

I wasn't at the comp due to a short trip. I have read all the lot you posted today. @dboy ..I just couldn't express things better than you did I could quote and underline each statement you wrote, which would be long and useless, so I just say ''AGREE'' to absolutely all you wrote and I find it difficult to understand that anybody could read my posts any other way than you did . ( Same to @Telis - greetings ! ) I guess it's all about reading posts with understanding ...
I'm accused of being rude cause I dared to point out that I wasn't understood correctly. According to Zorro, I should have just shut up and accept the theory that completely contradicts my testimony because he was kind enough to comment on my post..Well, dboy, you said all in the matter.
@Zorro, about one of your posts on the previous page..Yes,so sorry, I dared - I started a thread about ME and yes, it was about ME like in case in any other person starting a thread about a personal issue even though of course, it may serve others by learning on my experience. What's more, if you read anything I posted with understanding, which you haven't altogether, you would have known that the reason I posted about the spike was not to ask for your feedback that you value so much, but to simply give an update, as I had promised , once I was back from the show. Why I started the thread at all was for a completely different reason - which I thought was obvious - to gather experiences of other people cause it often helps me make my own decisions especially when I'm about to do sth potentially risky for the first time. If I was really uneasy/ stressed about going, I wouldn't have gone, like I'm not going to the cinemas anymore. Even if after all each of us makes the decisions on their own, I probably would have wondered twice if 15 people told me '' be careful, I had a spike after a similar event ''. That didn't happen - that's fine. I truly believed I was safe and no matter what you think, think whatever you want, really.., I wasn't anxious. Sth that @Telis perfectly illustrated by the comparison with the seat belts. Anyway, I won't repeat what I perfectly explained before . Some understood, some didn't. You , however, have no right to judge whether I should have started a thread or not. If you're not interested, don't read.
@Ed209 , I read what you wrote here and in the similar thread about cinemas . There's one thing you don't seem to take into account, although me and @dboy have wrote it clearly a few times - nobody claims 70 db will cause hearing damage. That is not the question. I myself from the beginning repeat I don't believe this performance could have caused hearing damage ( even though it's only a belief and if you have scientific proof about it , please DO share it, cause with all due respect ..your opinion is not a credible source of information. Actually, according to some articles I read here and there over last 11 months of my ''new'' life, you might be wrong. There are contradictory opinions out there and as long as there is no consistency I don't see how you can claim with all certainty that some is or is not potentially harmful to somebody. )
The point is , as @dboy wrote, that loudness CAN cause the spike without having caused hearing damage. As simple as that. You also don't seem to consider the time of exposure here. Of course, I experience things much louder than this performance was on everyday basis, and as you write, if I wanted to avoid them , I'd have to stay at home 24/24, but those other things don't last over two hours without a break . And that can do all the difference.
I agree wearing plugs itself can cause a spike. It always does to me. But for a few hours and not 5 days ( so far ) like it's the case now.
Could you please share a link to the meter you have ? I truly want to buy one I could trust. (1,5 db seems accurate enough for sure. )
Hugs to you @dboy. Not the first time I admire your argumentation skills
I'm done here. Will be back when the spike settles to update some silent readers who might be interested in that simple facts.

 

[dboy]

Hugs to you @dboy. Not the first time I admire your argumentation skills

Thanks very much @Gosia. It is quite difficult entering a situation like this as I did not wish to misrepresent you at all, and it is great to know that I did not do that. Please do let us know about the spike.

@Zorro!, perhaps at some point in the future you could look again at what happened here, and maybe try to be "objective" about your own role. It might be a valuable experience. No offence intended.

 

[Zorro!]

I wasn't at the comp due to a short trip. I have read all the lot you posted today. @dboy ..I just couldn't express things better than you did I could quote and underline each statement you wrote, which would be long and useless, so I just say ''AGREE'' to absolutely all you wrote and I find it difficult to understand that anybody could read my posts any other way than you did . ( Same to @Telis - greetings ! ) I guess it's all about reading posts with understanding ...
I'm accused of being rude cause I dared to point out that I wasn't understood correctly. According to Zorro, I should have just shut up and accept the theory that completely contradicts my testimony because he was kind enough to comment on my post..Well, dboy, you said all in the matter.
@Zorro, about one of your posts on the previous page..Yes,so sorry, I dared - I started a thread about ME and yes, it was about ME like in case in any other person starting a thread about a personal issue even though of course, it may serve others by learning on my experience. What's more, if you read anything I posted with understanding, which you haven't altogether, you would have known that the reason I posted about the spike was not to ask for your feedback that you value so much, but to simply give an update, as I had promised , once I was back from the show. Why I started the thread at all was for a completely different reason - which I thought was obvious - to gather experiences of other people cause it often helps me make my own decisions especially when I'm about to do sth potentially risky for the first time. If I was really uneasy/ stressed about going, I wouldn't have gone, like I'm not going to the cinemas anymore. Even if after all each of us makes the decisions on their own, I probably would have wondered twice if 15 people told me '' be careful, I had a spike after a similar event ''. That didn't happen - that's fine. I truly believed I was safe and no matter what you think, think whatever you want, really.., I wasn't anxious. Sth that @Telis perfectly illustrated by the comparison with the seat belts. Anyway, I won't repeat what I perfectly explained before . Some understood, some didn't. You , however, have no right to judge whether I should have started a thread or not. If you're not interested, don't read.
@Ed209 , I read what you wrote here and in the similar thread about cinemas . There's one thing you don't seem to take into account, although me and @dboy have wrote it clearly a few times - nobody claims 70 db will cause hearing damage. That is not the question. I myself from the beginning repeat I don't believe this performance could have caused hearing damage ( even though it's only a belief and if you have scientific proof about it , please DO share it, cause with all due respect ..your opinion is not a credible source of information. Actually, according to some articles I read here and there over last 11 months of my ''new'' life, you might be wrong. There are contradictory opinions out there and as long as there is no consistency I don't see how you can claim with all certainty that some is or is not potentially harmful to somebody. )
The point is , as @dboy wrote, that loudness CAN cause the spike without having caused hearing damage. As simple as that. You also don't seem to consider the time of exposure here. Of course, I experience things much louder than this performance was on everyday basis, and as you write, if I wanted to avoid them , I'd have to stay at home 24/24, but those other things don't last over two hours without a break . And that can do all the difference.
I agree wearing plugs itself can cause a spike. It always does to me. But for a few hours and not 5 days ( so far ) like it's the case now.
Could you please share a link to the meter you have ? I truly want to buy one I could trust. (1,5 db seems accurate enough for sure. )
Hugs to you @dboy. Not the first time I admire your argumentation skills
I'm done here. Will be back when the spike settles to update some silent readers who might be interested in that simple facts.

Aw sweetie, you're a gem! Sorry for assuming you were reaching out for help. Clearly you're content exactly where you are. My mistake in thinking otherwise. I sincerely wish you nothing but happiness and good health.

Au revoir mon ami

 

[Ed209]

@Gosia

Everything I wrote was to put your mind at ease that you had not damaged your ears. I was merely trying to help you out. Spikes are an absolute nuisance and can come and go at various times, but we've just got to ride out the storms; it's all we can do unfortunately.

The meter I use is this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00...s=dr+meter&dpPl=1&dpID=41ni1DmMSVL&ref=plSrch

Just out of curiosity, what was the app called that you used? I may already have it and can give you a rough idea on the calibration.

 

[Gosia]

Aw sweetie, you're a gem! Sorry for assuming you were reaching out for help. Clearly you're content exactly where you are. My mistake in thinking otherwise. I sincerely wish you nothing but happiness and good health.

Au revoir mon ami

Yes..Spike is exactly what I want. You are right again. Bravo. You didn't help me anyhow with your comments. You brought bitterness instead. And each of your posts proves even more that you're not capable of objective thinking. Never mind. Please, don't write any more in this thread. I don't need or want negative energy. Good health to you too. On n'est pas amis.

 

[Zorro!]

@Zorro!, perhaps at some point in the future you could look again at what happened here, and maybe try to be "objective" about your own role. It might be a valuable experience. No offence intended.

Trust me, I'm not offended. I'm edified about your rhetorical dissonance, but not offended.

Best wishes my friend.

 

[Ed209]

Zorro was only trying to help @Gosia, to be honest I'm a bit shocked at your response. No one has attacked you or said anything untoward at any point. He was only offering an arm of support to you and you basically slapped him round the face.

Am I the only one who sees it this way or is this a case of things being completely lost in translation?

 

[Zorro!]

Yes..Spike is exactly what I want. You are right again. Bravo. You didn't help me anyhow with your comments. You brought bitterness instead. And each of your posts proves even more that you're not capable of objective thinking. Never mind. Please, don't write any more in this thread. I don't need or want negative energy. Good health to you too. On n'est pas amis.

Gosia, I mean it when I say I wish you happiness and good health. Since we both share this malady I understand what you are going through right now. I am sympathetic. Sorry if I came off as snarky. Since you can't fix a spike I simply wanted you to focus on lowering the attending anxiety and stress that spikes tend to cause. This can definitely help the situation in the long run. Surely that's what you want, n'est pas?

As always best wishes.

 

[Gosia]

@Gosia

Everything I wrote was to put your mind at ease that you had not damaged your ears. I was merely trying to help you out. Spikes are an absolute nuisance and can come and go at various times, but we've just got to ride out the storms; it's all we can do unfortunately.

The meter I use is this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00...s=dr+meter&dpPl=1&dpID=41ni1DmMSVL&ref=plSrch

Just out of curiosity, what was the app called that you used? I may already have it and can give you a rough idea on the calibration.

Wow, so cheap ? I can definitely buy that one. The app I'm using is called ... '' DECIBEL METER'' They didn't think long about the name, did they ? I have it on android tablet. I had a few others but I stayed with this one cause it matches some db levels I found the info about on the net but its first default is it stops at 90 db.

Thanks for your comments. Actually the phrase that truly helps in this kind of situation is the one '' I've been there plenty of times, each time it settled..''. Even though I'm an avid fan and searcher of scientific proofs for any ailment I've got ( and I've got more than T to worry about, helas. ) But there's science..and there is reality that sometimes contradicts it. You know, it's a bit like doing blood tests and being or not in the 'normal values'. For some people having a result in the upper or lower normal level will already be a sign of advanced illness, whereas others will be perfectly fine with the results above or below the ''normal level''. I dare to state it 's likely the same with the decibels level that can be harmful. All I'm saying is we should take it ( OSHA recommendations etc.) with a grain of salt cause we don't know for sure. After all , genetics is seemingly what matters the most here. Some may be very prone to damage of hair cells , others will be fine with 120 db for two hours without earplugs. Some leave concerts with T, others don't. I globally follow the way of thinking you do - 70 -80db can't do harm, but..I can't say I'm certain. Let's say I don't have a choice if I want to live normally and I do ( concerts and loud events can be out of the ''normality''. I've had enough of those..) . We had a certain doctor here who advised everybody to go to concerts with earplugs as a sufficient precautions. He lived the same way. He ended up with massive spike and we don'tsee him anymore. That's not very encouraging..There are also people who had spike because of sounds we would never consider harmful, yet the permanent spike is the fact. That's why I wrote what I wrote before - after all it's not the level of db that matters as much as our individual sensitivity to loudness. I'm not interested in bringing myself down, I'm not the kind of person. I will rather deny that sh..is happening to me. But facts are facts.
PS Take the example of people who get T from a kiss in the ear . How is that possible if we take OSHA for granted ?

 

[Gosia]

You're right. This thread is about SB and not about you despite the fact that you created it. You're also right about not being stressed despite the fact that you hyped yourself up before you went to the theater; you carry around a decibel meter app; you have trouble sleeping; you have found yourself crying in public not to mention that every single one of your posts fairly oozes stress and anxiety and neurotic self-flagellation. So, yeah, you're right and every single one of us that has offered you logical advice is wrong.

I'm just curious though, if you didn't want objective feedback on this non-issue of yours why did you create this thread to begin with?

Let's say from this post I feel that the intention of the poster is definitely not about help. It's pure criticism and patronizing. A pure attack in a disrespectful way '' YOU FOUND YOURSELF CRYING IN PUBLIC'' . How on earth can you find comments like this helpful or supportive? As well as the 'sweetie - gem' thing. Of course, one can always say the nastiest thing and then say ''he was only trying to help'' and feel excused.