Theory: Could This Help with Hidden Hearing Loss and Tinnitus?

[Nick McConnell]

• The nerves in the ears are connected to the peripheral nervous system: http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/br...ers/overview-of-the-peripheral-nervous-system

• Nerve synapses in the peripheral nervous system have potential to regenerate: http://neuroscience.uth.tmc.edu/s1/chapter09.html (Go to 9.18-9.21)

• Studies that restored hearing in mice involved the use of neurotrophins: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4227045/

• Brain can produce nt3 and there are apparently ways to increase it: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304394011004976
• There are other ways to encourage more production of other types of neurotrophins: http://selfhacked.com/2015/06/27/a-comprehensive-list-of-natural-ways-to-increase-bdnf/

Does this mean that some hidden hearing loss might be reversed on its own over time and that we might help the body restore even more?

 

[Bobby B]

Good find !
LLLT is listed as one of the ways to increase the BDNF amongst a lot of others

 

[Nick McConnell]

Good find !
LLLT is listed as one of the ways to increase the BDNF amongst a lot of others

If you look at the third link, it says at one point that BDNF is necessary to maintain the synapses in the ear but that it doesn't seem to take a partin regenerating them. I seem to have missed that before I posted the last link.

 

[Mario martz]

Fuck yeah! this sound awesome

 

[Nick McConnell]

Fuck yeah! this sound awesome

I would encourage you or anyone else to proceed with caution if you want to try the drug combination in the fourth link. Both olanzapine and fluoxetine are ototoxic for some people:

http://hearinglosshelp.com/blog/fluoxetine-tinnitus-and-hearing-loss/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4118547/

 

[Nick McConnell]

I wonder if there is another way to increase nt3 production.

 

[Path Maker]

@Nick McConnell

If you look at the third link, it says at one point that BDNF is necessary to maintain the synapses in the ear but that it doesn't seem to take a partin regenerating them. I seem to have missed that before I posted the last link.

So from what you just said, would that make all the great tips in the last link kind of null and void? What are your thoughts?

And thanks - you put together a good series of links!

 

[Nick McConnell]

@Nick McConnell


So from what you just said, would that make all the great tips in the last link kind of null and void? What are your thoughts?

And thanks - you put together a good series of links!

Perhaps not. Nt3 can still cause regeneration and exercise can apparently increase nt3 in the spine:

https://www.ibp.ucla.edu/research/GomezPinilla/publications/Exc93.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11285004

I don't know if it increases it in the brain as well.

And people with depression apparently have more nt3 as well though I can't really say that this would lead to healthier ears:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11032384
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v5/n5/full/4000743a.html

 

[Path Maker]

Thanks! In any case, because of you I discovered the website of the "self-hacker" guy - it's interesting, to say the least!

 

[Nick McConnell]

Found another article that might be useful:

http://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/1998/02/3026.html

" They also found that the damaged nerve endings that transmit impulses from hair cells to the brain can recover from injury, but at a significantly slower rate than the brain. "

It might be outdated. Does anyone have an opinion on this or know of some more updated info on this?

 

[DebInAustralia]

There is no guarantee that nt3 will stop t because i dont think it can reverse the plastic changes that have occurred centrally

 

[Bobby B]

Improving nerve damage after trauma is a key element - I posted a few links at the bottom which may offer some ideas on how to help the body heal nerves better

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/is-lllt-for-tinnitus-by-dr-wilden-a-scam.14079/page-2

 

[Nick Pyzik]

• The nerves in the ears are connected to the peripheral nervous system: http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/br...ers/overview-of-the-peripheral-nervous-system

• Nerve synapses in the peripheral nervous system have potential to regenerate: http://neuroscience.uth.tmc.edu/s1/chapter09.html (Go to 9.18-9.21)

• Studies that restored hearing in mice involved the use of neurotrophins: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4227045/

• Brain can produce nt3 and there are apparently ways to increase it: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304394011004976
• There are other ways to encourage more production of other types of neurotrophins: http://selfhacked.com/2015/06/27/a-comprehensive-list-of-natural-ways-to-increase-bdnf/

Does this mean that some hidden hearing loss might be reversed on its own over time and that we might help the body restore even more?

The brain can regenerate nerve fibers, it's just that they aren't in-going nerve fibers that allow the subjects brain to clearly and emotionally process sound.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...y_new_contributor_to_age_related_hearing_loss

 

[Nick McConnell]

The brain can regenerate nerve fibers, it's just that they aren't in-going nerve fibers that allow the subjects brain to clearly and emotionally process sound.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...y_new_contributor_to_age_related_hearing_loss

Interesting. Should this be a concern with the study that says they restored hearing using Nt3? Is it possible that the reconnected synapses in the study were not meaningful in terms of hearing restoration? Or am I confused about something?

 

[Mario martz]

This is interesting BUMP!

 

[Mario martz]

The brain can regenerate nerve fibers, it's just that they aren't in-going nerve fibers that allow the subjects brain to clearly and emotionally process sound.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...y_new_contributor_to_age_related_hearing_loss

I didnt understood nick,
so basically the dead nerve fibers can regenerate but they wont help?
...
but if deaf mice, did recover their hearing, this means their hearing might not be... that good?

 

[Kyxwz]

Some days ago Charles Liberman (a great researcher in hearing & Tinnitus problem) answer me that:

Hello,

I am sorry to hear of your troubling condition. You must understand that I am a basic researcher, not a clinical doctor. I don't see patients, I work on animal models and try to understand the basic biology of the inner ear and how it is damaged by noise and other insults. Yes, we have some new ideas about the possible role of synaptic damage to the cochlear nerve in the generation of tinnitus, and we are working on neurotrophin-based treatments to repair the synaptic damage. The results are encouraging, but we are still some years away from clinical trials.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this debilitating problem.

M. Charles Liberman, Ph.D.

Director, Eaton-Peabody Laboratories
Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary
243 Charles Street
Boston, MA 02114

Tel: 617-573-4233

 

[Cityjohn]

There is a slight caveat here, most studies ever done with mice are not replicable in humans, and Fluoxetine is a drug with quite the street price because it is comparable to taking speed and mushrooms.

Now the ketogenic diet I've tried, I used to powerlift at the college gym and went into ketosis to go for a dry look... boy let me tell you, I did not have an easy time focusing in class.
As far as I know ketosis is a last resort your brain has to switch to burning fat in the event there is no glucose to be converted from the diet. I don't doubt for a minute that the brain badly needs glucose to function properly and that ketose is not a substitute, never mind something that lessened my brain fog.

 

[Alue]

Some days ago Charles Liberman (a great researcher in hearing & Tinnitus problem) answer me that:

Hello,

I am sorry to hear of your troubling condition. You must understand that I am a basic researcher, not a clinical doctor. I don't see patients, I work on animal models and try to understand the basic biology of the inner ear and how it is damaged by noise and other insults. Yes, we have some new ideas about the possible role of synaptic damage to the cochlear nerve in the generation of tinnitus, and we are working on neurotrophin-based treatments to repair the synaptic damage. The results are encouraging, but we are still some years away from clinical trials.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this debilitating problem.

M. Charles Liberman, Ph.D.

Director, Eaton-Peabody Laboratories
Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary
243 Charles Street
Boston, MA 02114

Tel: 617-573-4233

You got Charles Liberman to respond to your e-mails? I'd love to pick his brain about a few things. His work is what we base a lot of 'hidden hearing loss' and cochlear-nerve degeneration theories on.

I'm glad they are working on treatments, it just sucks how long it will be before any sort of treatment would become available even if it is a breakthrough. Years away for clinical trials and at lest a decade away from available treatment.

 

[Mentos]

You got Charles Liberman to respond to your e-mails? I'd love to pick his brain about a few things. His work is what we base a lot of 'hidden hearing loss' and cochlear-nerve degeneration theories on.

I'm glad they are working on treatments, it just sucks how long it will be before any sort of treatment would become available even if it is a breakthrough. Years away for clinical trials and at lest a decade away from available treatment.

I also recieved 2 replies from Charles Liberman when I asked him about hidden hearing loss, cochlear synaptopathy an diagnostics of this condition:

"I'm sorry to hear about your noise damage, but yes I agree that you likely have what we call cochlear synaptopathy. We are still quite a way from clinical trials. You can stay abreast of developments by following Decibel Therapeutics online"

and

"We are working on a diagnostic battery. The idea that tinnitus might be suppressed is only a hypothesis at present. We will be working on the question in animal models"

I saw Decibel Therapeutics is a project with investigates more into it, their plan is to start clinical trials within 3 years counted from October 2015 when the preoject was kicked - off. Let's hope their hipothesis turns out to be
true for those of us who have normal audiogram and no hair cel loss but only synaptic damage.

 

[Beste]

I also recieved 2 replies from Charles Liberman when I asked him about hidden hearing loss, cochlear synaptopathy an diagnostics of this condition:

"I'm sorry to hear about your noise damage, but yes I agree that you likely have what we call cochlear synaptopathy. We are still quite a way from clinical trials. You can stay abreast of developments by following Decibel Therapeutics online"

and

"We are working on a diagnostic battery. The idea that tinnitus might be suppressed is only a hypothesis at present. We will be working on the question in animal models"

I saw Decibel Therapeutics is a project with investigates more into it, their plan is to start clinical trials within 3 years counted from October 2015 when the preoject was kicked - off. Let's hope their hipothesis turns out to be
true for those of us who have normal audiogram and no hair cel loss but only synaptic damage.

Finally a study for us who have no detected hearing loss. Man, I feel so hopeless.

 

[lymebite]

Decibel Therapeutics can be "followed" on LinkedIn. Probably cannot hurt for their investors to see more followers!

https://www.linkedin.com/company/decibel-therapeutics

 

[VRZ78]

They posted a job ad a month ago for a Director/Senior Director Clinical Operations. The words "clinical trials" appear several times in the description

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/192400118?trk=biz-overview-job-post

 

[Contrast]

I also recieved 2 replies from Charles Liberman when I asked him about hidden hearing loss, cochlear synaptopathy an diagnostics of this condition:

"I'm sorry to hear about your noise damage, but yes I agree that you likely have what we call cochlear synaptopathy. We are still quite a way from clinical trials. You can stay abreast of developments by following Decibel Therapeutics online"

and

"We are working on a diagnostic battery. The idea that tinnitus might be suppressed is only a hypothesis at present. We will be working on the question in animal models"

I saw Decibel Therapeutics is a project with investigates more into it, their plan is to start clinical trials within 3 years counted from October 2015 when the preoject was kicked - off. Let's hope their hipothesis turns out to be
true for those of us who have normal audiogram and no hair cel loss but only synaptic damage.

.
@threefirefour Liberman's response in 2016 if reversing hearing loss would reverse tinnitus. Also October 2018 is approaching and no word of Decibel having a trial

 

[Mentos]

.
@threefirefour Liberman's response in 2016 if reversing hearing loss would reverse tinnitus. Also October 2018 is approaching and no word of Decibel having a trial

OTO413 aims at the same to treat hidden hearing loss with BDNF, let's Not give-up hope

 

[Contrast]

OTO413 aims at the same to treat hidden hearing loss with BDNF, let's Not give-up hope

I have heard of Oto-413 and my life literally depends on it.

• The nerves in the ears are connected to the peripheral nervous system: http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/br...ers/overview-of-the-peripheral-nervous-system

• Nerve synapses in the peripheral nervous system have potential to regenerate: http://neuroscience.uth.tmc.edu/s1/chapter09.html (Go to 9.18-9.21)

• Studies that restored hearing in mice involved the use of neurotrophins: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4227045/

• Brain can produce nt3 and there are apparently ways to increase it: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304394011004976
• There are other ways to encourage more production of other types of neurotrophins: http://selfhacked.com/2015/06/27/a-comprehensive-list-of-natural-ways-to-increase-bdnf/

Does this mean that some hidden hearing loss might be reversed on its own over time and that we might help the body restore even more?

btw why is this in alternative treatments? It should be in research but two of the links are gone