This Parkinson's Treatment Is Mind-Blowing (DBS - Deep Brain Stimulation)

Champ

Champ

Member
Author
Benefactor
Jul 21, 2013
842
Boston, MA
Tinnitus Since
01/2013
Cause of Tinnitus
Acoustic trauma from headphones
#1
Found this thread on hacker news.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6608585

Thread is about Darpa putting 70 million into deep brain stimulation research.

First comment in the topic is by user npalli, and he links to this video about a man who underwent DBS for his Parkinson's. Watch the video - it starts and the device is enabled. He turns it off a bit of the way through and frankly it was very difficult for me to watch (I hate seeing people suffering), but when he turns it back on you realize how powerful this kind of stuff can be.



Unfortunatley the procedure is very invasive, and not without issues for some. It seems to be safe enough to use as a treatment option, but I'm sure that $70 million will go towards making the implants safer, easier to implant, and more compact.

I can definitely see this being used for tinnitus at some point. You just get a small insertion of the device, and when you don't wanna hear your tinnitus, you activate it. Bam. Instantly gone. If they can identify the pathways where it begins, it looks like this device can be used setup to work by stimulating those neurons.

Very cool stuff. Glad to see that guy has a real treatment for his problem, and hopefully big advances can be made with this stuff.
 
#4
I think DBS will be a very possible solution for T in the future ... read this ...

A stroke of silence: tinnitus suppression following placement of a deep brain stimulation electrode with infarction in area LC.
Larson PS, Cheung SW.
Source
Department of Neurological Surgery, University of California, San Francisco, California 94143-0112, USA. larsonp@neurosurg.ucsf.edu

Abstract
The authors report on a case of tinnitus suppression following deep brain stimulation (DBS) for Parkinson disease. A perioperative focal vascular injury to area LC, a locus of the caudate at the junction of the head and body of the caudate nucleus, is believed to be the neuroanatomical correlate. A 56-year-old woman underwent surgery for implantation of a DBS lead in the subthalamic nucleus to treat medically refractory motor symptoms. She had comorbid tinnitus localized to both ears. The lead trajectory was adjacent to area LC. Shortly after surgery, she reported tinnitus suppression in both ears. Postoperative MRI showed focal hyperintensity of area LC on T2-weighted images. At 18 months, tinnitus localized to the ipsilateral ear remained completely silenced, and tinnitus localized to the contralateral ear was substantially suppressed due to left area LC injury. To the authors' knowledge, this is the first report of a discrete injury to area LC that resulted in bilateral tinnitus suppression. Clinicians treating patients with DBS may wish to include auditory phantom assessment as part of the neurological evaluation.
 
#6
nills said:
I think DBS will be a very possible solution for T in the future ... read this ...

A stroke of silence: tinnitus suppression following placement of a deep brain stimulation electrode with infarction in area LC.
Larson PS, Cheung SW.
Source
Department of Neurological Surgery, University of California, San Francisco, California 94143-0112, USA. larsonp@neurosurg.ucsf.edu

Abstract
The authors report on a case of tinnitus suppression following deep brain stimulation (DBS) for Parkinson disease. A perioperative focal vascular injury to area LC, a locus of the caudate at the junction of the head and body of the caudate nucleus, is believed to be the neuroanatomical correlate. A 56-year-old woman underwent surgery for implantation of a DBS lead in the subthalamic nucleus to treat medically refractory motor symptoms. She had comorbid tinnitus localized to both ears. The lead trajectory was adjacent to area LC. Shortly after surgery, she reported tinnitus suppression in both ears. Postoperative MRI showed focal hyperintensity of area LC on T2-weighted images. At 18 months, tinnitus localized to the ipsilateral ear remained completely silenced, and tinnitus localized to the contralateral ear was substantially suppressed due to left area LC injury. To the authors' knowledge, this is the first report of a discrete injury to area LC that resulted in bilateral tinnitus suppression. Clinicians treating patients with DBS may wish to include auditory phantom assessment as part of the neurological evaluation.
Click to expand...
Damn, so it's already happened.

That's pretty cool. My tinnitus sucks and I think about it more than I should (har har guess I'm in the right place right guys) but I'd definitely not risk it just to deal with the tinnitus. It's benign, and thus not worth undergoing a highly invasive surgery for me. Once they make this implantation more of a routine operation than a "rip open the head" sort of thing I'd be all over it. If the device was customizable enough it could be even be used for preventing or treating any other unlucky neurological crap that might happen to you.

The good news is we have something that already *works*. That's always step 1. Remember that we had crappy PDAs in the early 90s, and now we have quad core smartphones. And tech moves faster and faster each year. There's already teams of researchers looking to improve this existing technolgoy - the DARPA funding is going to this cause for sure.
 
#8
Karl said:
Very amazing stuff! I wonder if Michael J. Fox is aware of this treatment for Parkinson's?
Click to expand...
Yes he definitely is. https://www.michaeljfox.org/understanding-parkinsons/living-with-pd/topic.php?deep-brain-stimulation

DBS is also used for essential tremor with varying success. I know a man who suffers from ET and underwent DBS - is like a new man.

Just like in the videos, the difference between the device turned off and on is so unbelievable.

In Finland DBS has been used for years already, especially for Parkinson's, but also for essential tremor and depression.

Here's an article (in Finnish) about treating major depression with DBS: http://www.mediuutiset.fi/uutisarkisto/hyks aloittaa masennuksen aivokirurgian/a125954

The study was started in 2007 so the results are probably already in.
Pilottitutkimuksen tehneen torontolaisen Helen S. Maybergin mukaan sähkö lievittää masennusoireita hillitsemällä masentuneilla yliaktiivista Brodmanin aivoaluetta 25.
Click to expand...
Translated into English: According to Helen S. Mayberg, who carried out the pilot study, the electricity improves depression by inhibiting the Broadmann's area 25 that is overly active in people suffering from depression.
 
#9
I also had heard they were looking at deep-brain stimulation for tinnitus. I do agree that at this point, the technology is invasive (and expensive) enough that I would think twice before using it for my T. But I think ultimately we may see a treatment for tinnitus evolving from this technology, and have greater hope for some kind of electrical intervention than anything else.

By the way: I had a co-worker who had been diagnosed with early onset Parkinsons, like Fox, last year. While she was able to continue working for awhile, her symptoms were very obvious. She then had the deep brain stimulator surgery earlier this year and upon returning to work, after being away for about two-three months, she was like a different person. It was nothing close to miraculous.
 
#10
Wow, my question is how willing would the docs be to use something like this for T. They tell us to tune it out,
ignore the noise on and on. What would the criteria be to have this invasive treatment for something that most ENTs believe is something we can "ignore". There are moments when it gets so bad I would say sign me up.
Shouldn't we be seeing brain specialists rather than ENTs?
 
#11
I have read the price is between 30.000 and 50.000 USD ... around the same as to have your brain changed through HIFU surgery... The thing I also read is that DBS has positive effects but some of them only last 10 years. I read that people after 10 years have trouble sitting and getting up again and speaking even when the device is on. Maybe I rather have my brain zapped with HIFU ... ? ...
 
#12
Yes Nills, My colleague said the DSB would work for her for about 10 years. It also requires a strict diet and medication regime. Still, given the alternatives where she would be with Parkinson's otherwise in 10 years... Tinnitus,as horrible as it is, is not Parkinsons.
 
#13
yes it is true, this discovery is a god sent for the people that suffer from parkinsons ... it just makes me think about the fact that the brain even adapts to this electrical input ... like it does n`t want to get better and overwrite any healthy balance with an unhealthy one. the question then is, why?
 
#14
LadyDi said:
By the way: I had a co-worker who had been diagnosed with early onset Parkinsons, like Fox, last year. While she was able to continue working for awhile, her symptoms were very obvious. She then had the deep brain stimulator surgery earlier this year and upon returning to work, after being away for about two-three months, she was like a different person. It was nothing close to miraculous.
Click to expand...

Just as a counter point ... I know a person (not very well), who had a DBS device implanted for Parkinsons, and she received no benefit. Same after as before. Perhaps it slowed the progression of the disease. She is in pretty bad shape at this point (worse than before the the implantation), but there is no telling where she would be now without the implantation. Maybe worse. Unfortunately, medical treatments don't come with guarantees, and often are not reversible.

While this women lives a life that I could never stand to live, she in many ways is a reasonably happy person. It's amazing to me how she perseveres.
 
#15
nills said:
The thing I also read is that DBS has positive effects but some of them only last 10 years. I read that people after 10 years have trouble sitting and getting up again and speaking even when the device is on. Maybe I rather have my brain zapped with HIFU ... ?
Click to expand...
That's to be expected given that Parkinson's is chronic and progressive. According to Wikipedia, DBS carries a risk of psychiatric side effects.
 
#16
frohike said:
That's to be expected given that Parkinson's is chronic and progressive. According to Wikipedia, DBS carries a risk of psychiatric side effects.
Click to expand...

So if it is progressive I understand why this happens ... How does DBS carry risks for psychiatric side effects? Can you tell a bit about that? ... mainly interesting to know how these effects come about from a device.
 
#17
#18
mick said:
Just as a counter point ... I know a person (not very well), who had a DBS device implanted for Parkinsons, and she received no benefit. Same after as before. Perhaps it slowed the progression of the disease. She is in pretty bad shape at this point (worse than before the the implantation), but there is no telling where she would be now without the implantation. Maybe worse. Unfortunately, medical treatments don't come with guarantees, and often are not reversible.

While this women lives a life that I could never stand to live, she in many ways is a reasonably happy person. It's amazing to me how she perseveres.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your perspective Mick. You make a good point that any of us hoping for a cure should keep in mind; one size does not fit all when it comes to treatments particularly when the brain is involved. And as you said there are no guarantees.

Your friend sounds like a very inspirational person. I continues to amaze me how life transforming a medical crisis can be. I respect and honor her journey.
 
#19
#21
never have I been this much updated on different studies and trials so my t did bring some good aye!
and it's great news, some of the greatest cures always happen by accident = )
 
#22
Champ said:
Found this thread on hacker news.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6608585

Thread is about Darpa putting 70 million into deep brain stimulation research.

First comment in the topic is by user npalli, and he links to this video about a man who underwent DBS for his Parkinson's. Watch the video - it starts and the device is enabled. He turns it off a bit of the way through and frankly it was very difficult for me to watch (I hate seeing people suffering), but when he turns it back on you realize how powerful this kind of stuff can be.



Unfortunatley the procedure is very invasive, and not without issues for some. It seems to be safe enough to use as a treatment option, but I'm sure that $70 million will go towards making the implants safer, easier to implant, and more compact.

I can definitely see this being used for tinnitus at some point. You just get a small insertion of the device, and when you don't wanna hear your tinnitus, you activate it. Bam. Instantly gone. If they can identify the pathways where it begins, it looks like this device can be used setup to work by stimulating those neurons.

Very cool stuff. Glad to see that guy has a real treatment for his problem, and hopefully big advances can be made with this stuff.
Click to expand...


If only tinnitus had that much funding.
 
#23
Markku said:
Neuroscience: My life with Parkinson's : Nature News & Comment

A neuroscientist who became afflicted by Parkinson's.

Puts things into perspective.
Click to expand...

I can identify for sure. I just got diagnosed with PD in May this year. I returned to work after "recovering" from a downfall of serious symptoms I didn't understand until this last month. I have tinnitus , but way before the PD showed up. Not sure if it is related, but I now know I have been struggling with PD for at least 4 years. I am 44 now.

I am a scientist (engineer) and have been informing co-workers why I left work or two months. Now that I am being treated, I am much better off. DBS may be in my future.
 
#24
If this device really does work for tinnitus by swictching it on and off then MuteButton will need to change their name. Lol.
 

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