Tinnitus and Spine

[Nikopol]

Hi,

interestingly when I got my T generally lot of docs automatically assumed it's from problems with spine / back / neck. Said they get that a lot of times, especially since large onset of office jobs in 90s and beyond (as someone from former eastern block) and wrong sitting habits associated with it.

I have spasm of C5/6 blocks, slight lordosis due to that and few other things in medical terms I don't know how to translate. In essence what doc told me the problem is that those large muscles that connect back with neck (on right and left side of your neck) are really stiff and one is shortened. Before onset of my T I was getting a lot of tension headaches that appeared right after I started taking muscle relaxant medications. Doc prescribed continuous training, but said it will take months, perhaps a years to revert it back to what it should be. Anywho, others idea were floated by other docs, but generally they thought its either that or result of stress and anxiety that exploded when my tensions headaches begun (cca one month before onset of T) and after ruling out dangerous causes, they didn't seem much interested and just generally recommended me to do regular exercises and learn to live with it.

So, I wonder, because it's not mentioned often, how often is this the case? Because until I found these support forums where it's nearly never mentioned, I thought that is majority of causes.

 

[vermillion]

@Nikopol Supposedly you describe a somatosensory type of tinnitus. Personally i haven't read much on the subject. My ENT tried to check out possible muscle spasms that could trigger this condition. Recently i read a thread of a member who mentioned success through dry needling. It's a treatment that addresses myofacial pain by targeting possible trigger points. Maybe you should look for it.

 

[NimQ]

Is your T somatic? I mean if you move your head, neck, jaw etc. does the volume or tone of T react? For me especially rising my face towards ceiling and moving my jaw forward make T louder. I'm thinking if T is somatic, then there is a possibility of it being caused by nerves, inflammation etc.

I had such a clear acoustic trauma as my T trigger that I do not doubt it at all. But even in the cases of acoustic trauma, the actual volume of T can change because of somatic reasons. Many find that acupuncture, voice massage, physiotherapy/chiropractor, mouth guard etc. helps their T (depending on the conditions they have), but doesn't remove it. I believe my hearing and nervous system were damaged because of the acoustic trauma, but my bruxism and tension neck problems probably make the sound worse at times. Everything is linked and it makes sense that the nervous system connected to the ear is also connected to the nerves near it, making T worse if there are any problems.

Since in your case the cause is unclear, I'd definitely go and put all my effort into sorting the back problem. It doesn't even matter whether it relieves your T, since our musculosceletal system contributes so much to our health. When it gives a warning that things are starting to fall apart, it's a good thing - at least we know something is wrong and have chance to fix it! So physiotherapy and training could be of such importance to you, so that you'd have a healthy body in the future. And if it does relieve T eventually, then that is a great bonus. But I wouldn't put my focus on it, since having a healthy spine and getting rid of the pain are big enough goals as it is.

Having said that.. since you have tension headaches, I do think that your T could benefit from getting the upper back and neck better, since it gives the whole nervous system a better chance to find balance and heal. And meanwhile you could try treatments like acupuncture and whether it gives quicker relief.

 

[Nikopol]

When I move my jaw forward, T goes up. If I move my head to left or right and press beyond that "the end" point, it goes up. Immidiately goes down once I release the pressure.

I thought about acupuncutre, but bloody hell that thing is expensive. 80 euro just for entrance exam? Another 80 for one therapy? If I would take one a week I would nuke third of my netto salary and I earn above average. I do swimming ever since onset, though. 2 to 2.5km a week. Perhaps I could add something more, though I am naturally really, really, really lazy person who enjoys sitting at computer, drinking in pub, reading or travelling. Little beyond that.

Anywho, which other excercises beyond swimming would you recommend?

 

[Nikopol]

Also, my ENT said that there is possibility that those muscle relaxants released some muscle which put a pressure on nerve. That resulted in tension headaches. Which eventually resulted into T (although ever since onset tensions headaches has been rather rare, sometimes going for months without getting one and even than much more mild than in first month).

 

[vermillion]

Anywho, which other excercises beyond swimming would you recommend?

Yoga or Pilates for many reasons (seriously).

When I move my jaw forward, T goes up. If I move my head to left or right and press beyond that "the end" point, it goes up. Immidiately goes down once I release the pressure.

That's somatosensory indications.

Ps. Force your girl to massage you like crazy , but if single, use a tennis ball. I would recommend you to do some kind of bodywork but i read about your financial situation.

 

[NimQ]

When I move my jaw forward, T goes up. If I move my head to left or right and press beyond that "the end" point, it goes up. Immidiately goes down once I release the pressure.

I thought about acupuncutre, but bloody hell that thing is expensive. 80 euro just for entrance exam? Another 80 for one therapy? If I would take one a week I would nuke third of my netto salary and I earn above average. I do swimming ever since onset, though. 2 to 2.5km a week. Perhaps I could add something more, though I am naturally really, really, really lazy person who enjoys sitting at computer, drinking in pub, reading or travelling. Little beyond that.

Anywho, which other excercises beyond swimming would you recommend?

I've actually had some upper back problems myself just recently - not anything specific or serious, just locked-in weak muscles. Just like you, I am really not... erm, an active person and have been avoiding exercise all my life (quite succesfully, if I say so myself lol!). It does make sense that the human spine doesn't just hold itself there - it needs a balanced set of muscles for support. I actually made my back problem worse by starting a strenuous yoga exercise for one hour everyday for two weeks, eventually causing myself golf elbow. Silly, I just though to "get healthy muscles quick!" - wrong. So I would advice you to start lightly - if there's not much muscle, the joints and tendons will take too much of the pressure.

I was lucky enough to get an access to public health physiotherapy. I only visited twice but now have an exercise program that is built to my unique situation and will strengthen the areas that are weak and locked right now. The physiotherapist even suggested not to start any training before I have done this physiotherapy program for a couple of months - first just focus on opening up and activating the muscles. She said that swimming is a good option, but emphasized how the technique is very important there. If you don't know the right technique to swim and are keeping head above water all times, tensing your neck - it might make upper back problems worse. Could it be possible for you to visit a physiotherapist? Just to get an exercise program and since you have multiple problems, it could be a really important to start with a professional. The program designed for me has been superb - my upper back doesn't ache anymore and I can really find weak and tight spots all over my back. I am now doing mobility-increasing exercises for two weeks and then starting the ones with very light weights and resistance bands.

 

[Nikopol]

I actually was on what we call a rehab. Not alcoholic one. That one only awaits me in probably not that distant future.

So I guess that is what you call a physiotherapy where they taught me sitting excercises for muscles in neck. I have been a wee bit doging it and forgetting on instances and doing it generally when I remember. Like now. Like yesterday. Like two weeks ago. Should most like commit myself to do it daily, I know.

My technique isnt flawless, but as a kid I was on several swimming races. Just after a while, I somehow dropped off it. I remember the technique well and can do 80 laps in 25m poll within 40 minutes. Took me some 70 and that was after I returned to swimming after nearly a decade. Go me! Should probably have some professional swimmer take a look at my technique, there is certainly room for improvement. And obviously, I dont hold my head above water, its under and breath-in every third move of an arm and breath-out while underwater yada, yada, yada.

Yoga or Pilates for many reasons (seriously).

Isnt that exclusive to vegans or something?

I was thinking about yoga, though. Should give it a shot. Apparently good for anxiety too. Past 3 quarters I had project after project I had to work on. Overtimes every second day, deadlines all over my face, corporate decising to start cutting corners and me starting being furious with my bosses regarding that treatment. Then tensions headaches came. Then T. Sometimes I feel like a personification of Murphys law.

That's somatosensory indications.

Ps. Force your girl to massage you like crazy , but if single, use a tennis ball. I would recommend you to do some kind of bodywork but i read about your financial situation.

Mine financial situation is ok, apparently the accupuncturists with their fancy needles need more. Hell, my grandma has needles, she doesnt charge that much.

Im just sayin...

 

[vermillion]

Isnt that exclusive to vegans or something?

No way! (I am not one)

Mine financial situation is ok, apparently the accupuncturists with their fancy needles need more. Hell, my grandma has needles, she doesnt charge that much.
Im just sayin...

You tell me! Alternative medicine... I would say alternative "robbing".

 

[linearb]

somatic tinnitus may be a neuroplastic adaptation to noise trauma:

 

[Paul10]

Ahoj! I think it's more common than we'd think. I've been meaning to arrange an appointment with a chiropractor to get my posture checked over. There's a video that has been linked a few times on the forums regarding stretches for the neck and back. Good luck!

 

[linearb]

@Nikopol I actually do acupuncture on myself, but there's a pretty stark difference between DIY and what someone with experience doing trigger point work can accomplish

 

[Nikopol]

Ahoj! I think it's more common than we'd think. I've been meaning to arrange an appointment with a chiropractor to get my posture checked over. There's a video that has been linked a few times on the forums regarding stretches for the neck and back. Good luck!

*Insert a greeting in your local language here*! I thought about chiropractor, but my friend who is a neurologist advised against it, saying that he receives a lot of patients who have been injured by unprofessional chiro and rather advised for massages

@linearb Thanks for the vid. I will listen to it tomorrow during my work-time, seems like a worthwhile thing, perhaps with some tips how to get better. Accupuncture was actually recommended by my neurolosti friend who said that worst case scenario it wont do you nothing bad, nor nothing good. Though the expense...well, perhaps I will bite the bullet once I return from my travel.

 

[vermillion]

I'll just upload the following. It may come in handy. I have another one also. Better, but i'll need to upload it on my google drive first. It's like a DIY guide.

 

[Nikopol]

So, just a little update. I got recommended a really good massage therepist by my friend who has long-time problems with his back. Ill skip the moaning about how good and relaxing it was, because it always is, but I will get to the interesting part.

First, she said I have a nerve blocade in my neck. Interesting thing is she identified it in area that has been diagnosed by RTG scan as problematic. But even more interesting, at the end of massage she told me to roll on my back and push my head towards my chest while she put a pressure there (in order to remove the blocade).

And no, my T isnt now suddenly gone, its not going to be THAT easy, but the very second, in that very second when she pushed T changed. It went about 1/3 to 1/2 down and tone changed to more white soundy. In literally less than a second. This is my first serious proof of the origin of T not being anywhere else but my neck. I bought from her a healing gel just for mere 6 euro (big can that will last for weeks) and ordered for more massages. She said there is a blocade on muscles and nerves within left area of back of my neck that is causing basically all problems so I will keep trying massages and this get that is supposed to help muscles and bones and see what happens. Much cheaper than acupuncture too.