Tinnitus and Suicide

[Neenie]

Heya,
When I first got tinnitus 4 months ago I was definitely set on suicide. Even had worked out when and how and where to do it (NYE 2013). The thought itself was awful but the relief from that same thought was also liberating because I didn't have to hold on for much longer. I believed that life with Tinnitus is unacceptable, therefore death was my only other option.

Not anymore. I still have those dark thoughts, and I'm sure all the people that come to this site that have only had tinnitus for a short time have the same thoughts too. They go away though. Those uncomfortable suicide thoughts lessen as you from from viewing your tinnitus as unacceptable, to something less extreme such as uncomfortable. I no longer intend on suicide. Instead I intend on adapting my life so I can live with tinnitus.

This for me means, masking it at all times which I do in three ways. One: At home, wear an mp3 player with white noise at all times. Two: Listen to some fairly loud heave rain while you sleep at all times. Three: Wear a tinnitus masker (looks like a hearing aid) when you go out. I still hear the tinnitus just as loud as before. But I've adapted my environment so much that I barely ever hear it, despite it being irritatingly loud without masking.

I may have a different opinion to this than others that try to go through their day listening to their tinnitus hoping that habituation will occur. This is fine. IF, and only IF you can see your tinnitus as a completely neutral sound and get zero involvement in your limbic system and CNS. If you spend your time listening to it, or feeling agitated by it, habituation will not occur. And once you're agitated/mad/disappointed/sad/distraught by the tinnitus even by a little bit, you've already ruined the likelyhood of habituation. So if you can't view the noise as something neutral, you have to start masking it.

Suicide is the easy way out. But it's also the most boring way out. Rethink that decision please!

 

[Stan Younce]

Tinnitus is a horrid affliction. I have had the T for over two years and I consider myself, not habituated, but more like recovering with hopes of getting to the point where tinnitus is no longer an issue in my life.

I have met several individuals who have severe T. One is a lady who is deaf and has had the T for almost fifty years. No masking for her. All she hears is a loud "screeching" , as she calls it, 24/7 and yet she says that if her only physical ailment was tinnitus then she would consider herself "fortunate". She used to play the banjo and accordion. No more because of the deafness. Another lady I know has had the T for over 20 years. She describes hers a high frequency squeal. Does not affect they way she lives. Like water off a duck's back. No big deal. A man I know was a US Marine in Vietnam. He got the T while servicing jet aircraft during the war. Has had tinnitus for 30 years yet he likes to target shoot and go hunting. None of these people mentioned suicide although they may have thought about it at one time or another.

Yet, after two years I still struggle with it. I did the course of Neuromonics at the University of Iowa Tinnitus Clinic. I think it was helpful but did not lead me to habituation. I signed up to take it because I was desperate for some kind of relief. In addition I began counseling and a course of medication to help me cope. And yes, I thought about the S word. Then I thought ........great, I would stop the noise in my head but also I would cease to exist. A drastic solution. Seems to me that time is also a big factor in recovery which varies from individual to individual. Slowly I have been able to resume activities that I stopped when first afflicted. I can now read in silence, drive my car, go to a movie. But I am nowhere near the person I was before. Do not know if I will ever get there.

I feel that tinnitus has robbed me of a lot of my life. But, as I see it, there is no alternative but to live each day as it comes. I am just so miffed that there is really no effective treatment or cure for tinnitus. Oh yes, researchers are working on it. Sometimes you will see a new "breakthrough" therapy but in reality just a rehash of existing treatments.

Well, Neenie, hope you find something that works for you. I am still in the process.

Good Luck and Happy New Year.

 

[James]

Yeah, put that suicide talk away. I mean life is crazy enough. I had to stand in three dept. stores lines today just to exchange a gift. The second line - the guy told me to go stand in the first line again. Now my T is loud pulsing.

4 months is not long enough, I didn't see any improvement. After 9 months, I've been having some good hours, if I'm just rested, non stressed and distracted enough,,,,,i hope you know what I mean. For me if the pulsing part goes down, that's good.

I just can't get into so much masking as you mentioned. I see you have your reasons for it all. Well said. I can't find the perfect masking sound for it to work. I don't change my behavior much, why let it do that.

 

[mick]

Good post Stan. So many people on this forum can empathize completely. I think what Neenie says about viewing T sounds as neutralize is really important to habitation, but many people like me ( and it sounds like you) are unable to force one's self to "accept". I have become mostly habituated, but I didn't achieve that through trying. Habitation began serendipitously when I just began trying to distract myself with anything I could. Over time I think by distraction the primitive parts of my brain began to see the sound as less and less threatening, and began to release its fixation on the sound. I still hear the sound whenever I listen for it, but most of the time I don't notice it as long as I stay busy. There are times when it is still a major annoyance (like now because the cold I have has really aggravated it), but overall it is tolerable.

I understand being miffed by everything associated with T, but being miffed doesn't help. I'm still miffed because it is true that I will never be the person I was pre-T, but I do what I can to just ignore that thought. It helps.

Take care. I hope things improve for you soon.

mick

 

[PaulBe]

The though of the one who loves me having to find me, or identify me in the morgue puts me off the idea of suicide, but that's all that does.

 

[NiNyu]

Heya,
When I first got tinnitus 4 months ago I was definitely set on suicide.

Not anymore.

Suicide is the easy way out. But it's also the most boring way out. Rethink that decision please!

If suicide was the easy way out, wouldn't most severe sufferers opt for it?
Suicide is on the top of my list for a reason. I do not want to live like a zombie. If it won't get any better soon, or there being some real treatment it's game over for good.

When your T gets louder than cars and trains that says a lot.
Do you know what was the most precious thing in life for me? Serenity. Having silence after all the work and commotion. I cherished the moment of silence, enjoying a good book or rehearse my script. Now it's all down the river. Life has become hell. I mean, what could be more stress-inducing than something screaming in your ear 24/7 a day and knowing that it will never stop until you die? Rlaxation is impossible. Drugs have no effect. And treatments are a bad joke.

 

[Vincent R]

If suicide was the easy way out, wouldn't most severe sufferers opt for it?
Suicide is on the top of my list for a reason. I do not want to live like a zombie. If it won't get any better soon, or there being some real treatment it's game over for good.

When your T gets louder than cars and trains that says a lot.
Do you know what was the most precious thing in life for me? Serenity. Having silence after all the work and commotion. I cherished the moment of silence, enjoying a good book or rehearse my script. Now it's all down the river. Life has become hell. I mean, what could be more stress-inducing than something screaming in your ear 24/7 a day and knowing that it will never stop until you die? Rlaxation is impossible. Drugs have no effect. And treatments are a bad joke.

There probably won't be a treatment showing up around the corner anytime soon, so if you can't set for habituation, things will be painful in an intense kind of way. But I can't help to suspect it's actually possible to get to the T-sound, just people haven't been clever enough about it.

Anyway, I feel you. I'm about to go bugfuck over here, and there are some strange, strange thoughts showing up. Like, how can I make sure my body get burnt once I'm dead and the ashes spread for the wind? Since it's this body causing me all this tornment, I'd rather have it completly and utterly destroyed just to be on the safe side. These are not the thoughts of a sane mind.

I don't know if suicide is such an easy option after all. Becaus you actually have to do it, and most ways I can think of would get real messy. If I lived during The Middle Ages, I could simply perform some royal crime, and be assisted with decapitation. I think that's as smooth as it could get.

 

[linearb]

If suicide was the easy way out, wouldn't most severe sufferers opt for it?
Suicide is on the top of my list for a reason. I do not want to live like a zombie. If it won't get any better soon, or there being some real treatment it's game over for good.

When your T gets louder than cars and trains that says a lot.
Do you know what was the most precious thing in life for me? Serenity. Having silence after all the work and commotion. I cherished the moment of silence, enjoying a good book or rehearse my script. Now it's all down the river. Life has become hell. I mean, what could be more stress-inducing than something screaming in your ear 24/7 a day and knowing that it will never stop until you die? Rlaxation is impossible. Drugs have no effect. And treatments are a bad joke.

And yet we have many people on here who have said that they love and cherish their lives despite blazingly loud tinnitus.

Go ask an orphaned child in iraq who lost their legs to an IED, if they would like to trade lives with you...

 

[RaZaH]

No way I would kill myself , I would miss even the trivial stuff ,cup of coffee, trees , dirt and cleaning stuff.

 

[NiNyu]

The only cure there might be is a brain surgery. Namely a lobotomy. They did it in '40s and it help some patients. Of course, one might get deaf in the process but I'm confident that most of us, those who really suffer, are more than willing to pay that price for some genuine peace.

Decapitation. Sweet Swede Vincent, yes, me too thought about a guillotine. It shall be swift and humane. The French have good taste, just as wine.
Why would you want your body to be burned to ashes, strewn in the wind? I wouldn't mind about my body. They can do whatever with it as long as my death is swift and painless. I am not afraid of death. I am afraid of living with this condition, which I wouldn't even call living! It's plain torture 24/7.


linearb, sold! Leggless orphaned child without T (or H and HIV) and healthy ears.

RaZaH, one word: reincarnation.

 

[linearb]

the opposite of problems is death. For all people, in all things. Since suicide is exceedingly rare, both in the general and the tinnitus-having population, I think it's fair to say that most people prefer problems to death.

If you really think that your quality of life would be better in a third-world hellhole, I don't know what to say except that you should go volunteer some of your time to visit such places and work with people who live there, and then get back to me on that.

For me, a big part of what makes this livable, is knowing that at night I will be safe, comfortable and warm in my own bed, with someone who loves me, and our cats... that gives me strength to get through unpleasant days. If I didn't have that, I can't imagine how I'd deal with any life stresses, let alone incessant ringing....

 

[RCP1]

@NiNyu

You have had T for just a couple of months. Your perception of it will change and it will begin to diminish in sound intensity from your perspective. I relate 100% to what you are saying. When life seems so unbearable who would want to keep on going - I mean whats the point in continuing to exist for a while longer if you are in all this pain.
What I'm saying is things change with regard to your perception of the sound and in that regard your situation could well improve. Also there are drugs on the way - Only today I was in touch with a French ENT doctor who is rolling out a drug this year in France to address Tinnitus. There is also Autifony and if you can get your hands on a mere 30,000 Eur there is a procedure in Switzerland which could reduce/eliminate it... Tinnitus is elusive and incurable until one day it isn't anymore and that day could well be in a couple of years. Pick a milestone - say 2 years. Aim to be around then and re-evaluate your situation then. Things could really have changed by then in terms of treatment or your own condition may have changed for the better.

R

 

[billie48]

Suicide won't solve anything. Youtube is full of videos of people who come back from near-death experience after attempted suicide telling others that they are so glad to be alive again as what awaits them is not what they think it is. It is a free world and people can do what they want with their lives. But suicide is a one way ticket and many are not as lucky as these guys coming back to tell what they find out on the other side. There are lots of mysteries out there that we haven't figured out. I am not making a judgement on the right or wrong of suicide, I came close to that a few years back until I saw these youtube videos. Then I decided to just stay put to fight T (actually by accepting it however hard at first) while I am alive.

It was really tough at first. Besides the ultra high pitch dog whistle, I also had severe hyperacusis which made all normal sounds piercingly hurtful, so much so that I couldn't go out much to enjoy life as I was afraid of most sounds and had to wear ear plugs all the time. But the plugs blocked all outside sounds and made the harsh T so unbearably dominant. I tried to choose the lesser of the 2 evils but there was no lesser choice between these 2 torturous new masters of my life. Worst, being someone suffering from anxiety and panic disorders for decades prior to T & H, these two devils literally opened the flood gate of hell of relentless anxiety (A) and panic (P) attacks on auto mode the minute I woke up with the loud T and they came in waves unchecked. No amount of will power or things I learned from Internet could stop these attacks. So you add all the sufferings of T, H, A & P and you have a mountain of sufferings to deal with. I never thought I could recover from something so unlivable. But I decided to stay put and fight these bullies.

Never say never. On the 3rd anniversary of my T life, I wrote my success story. I was glad I didn't do the unthinkable & pass all my pain & suffering to my love ones. My T is still the ultra high pitch dog whistle which could be heard above the jet noise in my last 2 flights, and above the roaring raging rapids in the salmon river I fished. This sound used to turn me into a mess, a total wreck with immense daily sufferings. NO LONGER!!! Now given time and changing to a more positive and accepting attitude, my body has hardened to this loud shrill and doesn't give a dime to T high or low. NO MORE negative reactions. The tyranny of T on me is over. It is now just a paper tiger. Today I live an absolutely enjoyable life regardless of T high or low. I don't give a dime. The body doesn't give a dime. The good life is back. This is something I never thought possible but time has changed, and I have changed. You can too.

If a panic prone person like me can recover over time, have faith that you will have a high chance to recover too. So don't give up hope. Some of you have T relatively new. Give it time. Search out the success stories and apply some strategies or insights which may work for you. If this young lady can overcome her totally unmaskable, loud #%!@&*^ T and is now loving her life, I hope you don't give up on yourself easily. Try read up the Positivity thread page 15, post # 422 & 425 for the detail about her and her tinnitus movie. Hopefully she can inspire you to hang on and fight. Life is precious and we have only 1 life to live. Don't give up:

 

[NiNyu]

linearb, suicide is exceedingly rare 'cause it's NOT an easy way out. It's fair to say that most people are not brave enough to do it. You'd have to be one bold hell of a motherfuc*er to pull that off.

Third-world hellhole? Me made it this way! I was about to volunteer this year.. and T + H got me pretty bad. Now I can't even grocery shopping without getting a T that so extreme it feels like my head is imploding at any given second. The noise gets sooo loud I can hardly hear anymore! It feels like war!

Believe it or not but even in the 3rd-world they have it comfortable, warm and quiet and care and share. Fair they might have other issues.. mostly caused by us. Because, there's enough food and water for every being on this planet if we simply were to share instead of being greedy and exploitive.
~

RCP1, a procedure in Switzerland? I'm listening. Money isn't any problem. I do not have years. I need something that works now otherwise it's all unbearable plain to no avail. You know, I can take a lot.. been through a lot.. but this.. no!

 

[linearb]

linearb, suicide is exceedingly rare 'cause it's NOT an easy way out. It's fair to say that most people are not brave enough to do it. You'd have to be one bold hell of a motherfuc*er to pull that off.

Mechanically it's a simple problem. The thing that makes it hard is 3.5 billion years of evolutionary tendencies. What are the things that make suicide seem hard or scary to you? Identify those things, and hold on to them. Believe me, if you only viewed it as a mechanical problem, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because the human body is incredibly frail, and inflicting injuries on it sufficient to stop it from functioning is pathetically easy. When you think about all the things that have to work properly for us just to keep breathing moment to moment, it's pretty mind-boggling that we're here at all.

Third-world hellhole? Me made it this way! I was about to volunteer this year.. and T + H got me pretty bad. Now I can't even grocery shopping without getting a T that so extreme it feels like my head is imploding at any given second. The noise gets sooo loud I can hardly hear anymore! It feels like war!

I triple dog dare you to go say that to someone who's actually been to war, and see how they react.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you are stuck way inside your head, and you're letting your extremely unpleasant emotional state override your rationality. This will get better with time, even if your T doesn't. You are stuck in a loop of limbic over-activation. It's horrible, and it feels like the worst thing in the world, but the only thing putting urgency to the situation is your anxiety.

The good news is that even if you do nothing at all, it will improve - because it's just not possible for the nervous system to stay in that state of over-activation indefinitely. I think most of the people on this forum have felt exactly as you do now at some point -- and, in general, do not feel that way right now. That should tell you a lot. Trust us. It gets better.

 

[NiNyu]

billie, I can feel you. And these are all kind, strong wishful words but the tyranny of T is not over. And those are not success stories. All of them have one thing in common, T is still there as loud as ever and without being cured. The only think that did change is them trying to ignore T.

Look, you have been deceived by the most obvious excuse, that you were in control. But the truth is, you cannot run away from T. You cannot tame T. All you can merely try is to ignore. Like the saying, 'ignorance is bliss.' But does it make you really happy? Can you really enjoy life to the fullest?

Life itself is a cycle. Once you cease to exist you get reborn; eventually. Trust me, sometimes ending is better than mending; especially when you are being tormented this way - without a break.

 

[linearb]

Hey dude, it's your life; I think people are being really patient, and it's pretty clear that no one here is going to be swayed into suddenly agreeing with you and concluding that yeah, suicide is a reasonable and rational response to this problem.

Life is never perfect. You can't truly control T any more than you can control the eventuality of your own death, or the cosmic eventuality of the sun exploding.

What are you looking for here? What are you hoping to accomplish with this thread?

 

[NiNyu]

linearb, indeed, we wouldn't be having this conversation if I had the strength to do it right away without thinking it over. In theory it's easy to damage your own body in order to die, but the problem is the nervous system and that survival is hardwired.

it's just not possible for the nervous system to stay in that state of over-activation indefinitely.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. Did you know that even if you hear nothing the sensory cells send perpetually data to the neurons? Bottom line, they are over-active all the time. But as soon as the sensory cells fail to send data the neurons go apeshit creating their own whatever fuc*ed up sounds; for till you die.

 

[RCP1]

People do conquer Tinnitus all the time. Not all tinnitus gets worse. In the scenario where tinnitus remains at the same level and people have ceased to react to it they notice it 5% of their day and when they do they just say hello to it and forget it the next minute. This is the case for a large proportion of people with T. It doesn't have to get worse and you don't have to suffer indefinitely. Also from a practical viewpoint the drugs are more than likely on the way... a guy like Billie is brave and bold and selfless to spend his time supporting others. He is to be celebrated and not to be consigned to some dustbin for the deluded. Sure he still has T but he is functioning and alive and gets on with his day and still has enough left over to help others. That's not someone who is eeking their way through life . That is someone who is really living. I have never felt so alive since I got T. It made me realise I was asleep in my life. It made me want to live desperately and to hold on to all that is good in my life and live every moment. I was just sleepwalking through it before. It's a tough battle but with the right outlook it can be rewarding and enriching.

 

[linearb]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. Did you know that even if you hear nothing the sensory cells send perpetually data to the neurons? Bottom line, they are over-active all the time. But as soon as the sensory cells fail to send data the neurons go apeshit creating their own whatever fuc*ed up sounds; for till you die.

Yup, I knew that, but the idea that this inherently creates both a constant tinnitus state and a constant state of limbic over-activation is wrong because the brain is plastic and rewires itself constantly.

If the sort of crazy, high-stress state that you're in now, were indefinitely sustainable, then suicide rates for tinnitus patients would be much higher than the general population -- and yet they are not, because the brain "figures it out". Even if the stimulus itself stays constant, the response varies over time, and arguably it is the response that is really the problem as far as making you feel bad -- the stimulus is just stimulus, and the nervous system is fully capable of being stimulated all the time without creating a negative emotional reaction.

If what you're saying is correct, and tinnitus distress is indefinitely sustainable, why is it that so many people on here like billie48 there report that their tinnitus doesn't bother them nearly as much as it used to, even though it hasn't gone down in volume? Why are you so sure that you're going to keep suffering forever, when lots of people are telling you that it gets better and to chill the f*** out?

And again, I ask, what are you looking for from this thread? You seem hellbent on ignoring or disagreeing with anyone who replies to you, and yet you keep posting here and responding. What's going on? What are you after?

 

[billie48]

billie, I can feel you. And these are all kind, strong wishful words but the tyranny of T is not over. And those are not success stories. All of them have one thing in common, T is still there as loud as ever and without being cured. The only think that did change is them trying to ignore T.

Look, you have been deceived by the most obvious excuse, that you were in control. But the truth is, you cannot run away from T. You cannot tame T. All you can merely try is to ignore. Like the saying, 'ignorance is bliss.' But does it make you really happy? Can you really enjoy life to the fullest?

Life itself is a cycle. Once you cease to exist you get reborn; eventually. Trust me, sometimes ending is better than mending; especially when you are being tormented this way - without a break.

Let's just say we respectfully disagree on the point of recovering from T. For me, T is still there, for others they now sense silence. I Who Love Music posted 'Back to Silence' as his success story. For me, my T is as good as back to silence for the most part of the day. It normally blasted loud in the morning but because the brain now thinks T is harmless, it just fades it out of consciousness most of the time during the day. When you don't hear something it is silence to me. I am ok with not being conscious of the loud ringing. It is a phantom sound of the central nervous system anyway. If the brain says silence while it is singing the tune on a different channel and I don't hear it, I am ok with that. I don't mind if I hear it like I am typing now. Heck I hear loud sounds all the time during the day. People work in some of the loudest jobs like drillers/miners all day for life time for WAGES. So why not accept the moments I hear my T just to get my LIFE back. It is a good trade off, at least for my case. It is either acceptance or utter misery for life. I choose acceptance. Same is that pretty young lady Zoe Cartwright on the video I posted above. She accepts her T, even unmaskable T and move on. That means to me that T is not an end game. What we put into this sound or how we react to it is the real issue.

One of the secret of habituation is willingness to make compromise with T. For that matter, the secret of a happy life is willing to compromise with the imperfections of life. Positivity is a life force. It empowers an individual with insurmountable odds to climb the mountains in life and still live a happy and achieving life. I learn from Zoe Cartwright. I also learn from this lady, Jennifer Bricker, about the importance of positivity in facing challenges. Her story is simply inspiring & I was teary in watching her video. She was abandoned as a baby without feet. She could have retreated into the negativity world of self pity, jealousy, depression, giving up, non-compromising, or even suicide etc., especially with a sister who is an Olympic champion. Yet with her positivity & fearlessly positive attitude, she overcomes her odds and now excel as a productive, happy lady who has become an inspiration. Watch her video and witness that positivity:

 

[NiNyu]

I think suicide is a reasonable and rational response to an ailment that won't give you a break. Ever.

For instance, let's assume you have excruciating pain. What can you do? Right there are painkillers that can give you a break. Although you do suffer greatly you get a break every now and again. So there's some reason to carry on or to look forward to. But now imagine you have this excruciating pain and you are being told to ignore it. Make it a success story. Embrace your pain. Pretend it's not there. Does that really work in the long run?

I'm looking for genuine answers. I mean, look at you you have been suffering greatly for years. Thus you are either very strong or too weak to end your own agony. I don't know. I've never been someone who can easily ignore things that are annoying. I used to interfere with things that bothered me or others too weak and unable to do anything about it. I think I know how I can create my own success story. A genuine success.. by curing T.

 

[billie48]

I understand each person is different. And I agree that when the brain senses no way out of a lot of suffering, it will dangle out the big 'S' word in front of us. I am sure you read many posters, even those who wrote their success stories, that they were suicidal at the beginning. That is just human. But most people won't carry out the fleeting thoughts of suicide. This thought can be triggered by so many reasons, breaking up a relationship, loss of job, being bullied and abused, business failure, stock crash, and of course from illnesses of which T is one small slice. Millions & millions of people have T, some more severe than others, some with hyperacusis, vertigo or other issues on top of T. Yet we don't have an epidemic of T related suicide. From the cases of those survive T or actually living a good life after T, we know T is not necessarily an end game. Choose you whatever way you want to react to the T challenge. It is our freedom with our lives. But for me, if there is just one little ray of hope that I can survive my T (and H) experience, such as emulating the examples of all those who have T & survive, I will go for it. I will accept the reality of T and make compromise with my imperfect life. Only by doing this my struggle with T is over and peace and happiness return to my life after a few years.

 

[nills]

the most annoying part is that the mind can not accept the situation. It is just not capable of bowing it`s snake head to the gods divine creation. I would suggest you start reading up on buddhism and Zen and you will learn a lot about what i`m pointing to.

Without Space there can not be any objects ... without Silence there can not be any sound.

What we are in essence, in a spiritual sense is even before the emergence of space and silence. Your nature as a Being is consciousness ... this mean that whatever you hear see feel touch know or taste can only be experienced because you are this substratum of life on which all of this is projected ... although a room may be full of stuff, the quality of space does not change ... although there is Tinnitus in your life, it can only be heard because it is a sound projected onto emptiness or silence ... when you identify with the silence of Being instead of the tinnitus or the commentaries and ideas in your head you will know what I point to. Tinnitus is a very tough teacher because it is so close, it is behind the eyes in inside of us ... but there is something even before this, a half step back ... be That and you can have peace even with Tinnitus ... try it for a few seconds and you will know what I mean ... you will have to let go of everything you think and feel and hear ... let go of all of it ... be at peace ....

Suicide is just a silly idea in your mind ... but when you believe it it might become real ... stop believing it and stop giving this weed water and it will dry out and vanish ... as long as you keep feeding it this beast will grow.

reminds me of this beautiful Cherokee story

One evening, an elderly
cherokee brave told his
grandson about a battle that
goes on inside people.

he said "my son, the battle is
between two 'wolves' inside us all.
one is evil. it is anger,
envy, jealousy, sorrow,
regret, greed, arrogance,
self-pity, guilt, resentment,
inferiority, lies, false pride,
superiority, and ego.

the other is good.
it is joy, peace love, hope serenity,
humility, kindness, benevolence,
empathy, generosity,
truth, compassion and faith."

the grandson thought about
it for a minute and then asked
his grandfather:

"which wolf wins?..."

the old cherokee simply replied,
"the one that you feed"

 

[NiNyu]

linearb, but how can the brain rewire, or rather get rid off, useless neurons when they are being nurtured?

If the brain really figures it out wouldn't T cease eventually?
However, from what I have read T gets worse the older you get.

Rather I assume the suicide rate for T patients is that low because T is fluctuating, people think there might be a cure (trying lot of useless treatments and therapies that make other people rich), and as we have learned suicide is NOT an easy way out.

Let's say you have excruciating pain does it really matter if you emotionally react to it or not? The pain is there no matter if you feel bad about it or not. And that's my point. Ignoring something won't change it. Nor is it a success.
Who knows, maybe T can be indefinitely stressful for some people. At least it feels that way.

You say the volume of the T hasn't gone down one bit but it got better. Isn't that a paradox? Or is 'better' a synonym for I-can-ignore-it-better-now or ATM?

 

[marqualler]

I'll just chime in here as I've followed this conversation today. My experience mirrors many of those here--the initial onset of T was horrifying and sent me into a spiral of anxiety and depression, with that "s" word hovering around in my mind. I worked at these thoughts through CBT and broke down the distorted thoughts into realistic, manageable pieces. Eventually the anxiety dissipated--like others have said here, your body cannot stay in that high anxiety state forever. And then when I continued my life, my depression lifted. Today I am working in a quiet office and, while I can hear my T, it doesn't drive me to anxiety and depression. Suicide is no option, and I am glad that I no longer think about it. Life is a lot more fun and enjoyable this way.

 

[labrat10687]

I'll skip the suicide talk but if you have not tried masking you should at least give it a try. I have been chided for years because this is what helps me get the much needed breaks from my intrusive tinnitus. I'm usually told that I will never habituate to my tinnitus like that should be the only goal for for everyone with tinnitus. You do whats best for you. and not all of us are the same.

 

[billy43]

hi nills.I love that story of the two wolves.i first read it on this forum several months ago posted by Charlie .a retired ENT.i had to read it a couple of times .and then it was like WOW.i get it .it has helped me so much with dealing with T but also in life in general.i realized even before I had T I was one of those people who spent too much time feeding the bad wolf.life is too short .T or no T im gonna do everything I can to enjoy all the good things life has to offer.thanks billy43

 

[linearb]

I Make it a success story. Embrace your pain. Pretend it's not there. Does that really work in the long run?

I wouldn't know, but people living with terrible pain seem to think so.

I'm looking for genuine answers. I mean, look at you you have been suffering greatly for years. Thus you are either very strong or too weak to end your own agony.

Nah, I think this is exactly what you're not getting. Lots of people have tinnitus without suffering. There are plenty of people here on this forum who did suffer terribly for a period of time, and then learned how to have the noise without having to suffer as a result.

From a sort-of buddhist perspective - pain is inevitable, suffering is not. More on that in a moment...

I don't know. I've never been someone who can easily ignore things that are annoying. I used to interfere with things that bothered me or others too weak and unable to do anything about it.

I'm right there with you, dude -- but instead of trying to kill myself, I'm instead trying to change those tendencies. And you know what? I don't have it all figured out, but by any reasonable measure I'm doing much better than I was a couple years ago. Even before I had the loud ringing, I spent a decade and a half unhappy, fixated on imperfections, hooked on Klonopin... a total mess.

Yes, the ringing has been bothering me lately, hence spending more time on this forum than I had been in the fall. You know what, though? As recently as late November I remember having a day where I realized at 5pm that I was thinking about the noise... and that was the first time I'd thought about it all day. These things come and go in cycles. If I thought I was going to be as fixated as I am right now for the rest of my life, I'd probably go bonkers, but that's a totally unreasonable idea because I know that in the fall the noise was just as "loud" as it is now and I didn't give a shit about it for months in a row. So, I'll get back there.

And you'll get there to, if you can cultivate some patience and self-compassion.

So.. on that "buddhist" shit... I don't want to hit you over the head with too much theology, but even as a philosophy, divorced from the religious bullshit, buddhism basically has this to say about tinnitus and life:
* everything that is, is temporary and fleeting
* the mind forms attachments to these temporary, fleeting objects of perception
* when something negative shows up unexpectadly, it causes us pain
* when something positive vanishes, it causes us pain
* the thing that makes us suffer is not the pain, it is the mind's attachment to the fleeting things. All "suffering" is a result of wanting things to be different than they are.

So, why am I writing about 2,500 year old philosophies on an internet forum about tinnitus? Because it's the same shit. If you read the success stories on here, one thing that nearly all of them have in common, is acceptance of the noise. That doesn't mean you have to love it, it means that as long as you are fighting it, you are creating your own suffering.

I've been in relatively bad shape lately -- I've broken down in tears a couple times, and even ranted to my wife that sometimes I just feel like I am a sick dog who should be put down. And yet here I am telling you that killing yourself is a highly irrational response to the situation, because what you have is a temporary problem. The noise? The noise may not be temporary, sorry to say, but that's what it is. Or, you might be one of these people who wake up one day and poof the noise is gone... I've read a lot of those stories, and there's just no way to know. But, as much as I'm a glutton for punishment, I'm also a hedonist, and I like doing things like having sex and riding motorcycles through forested roads on sunny days, and you know what? You can't do any of that shit if you're dead.

Suicide over this shit is like paying off a 0% APR loan early, when you're making interest off the principle. You can do it, sure, but the math doesn't add up.

If I have one piece of actionable advice, it's to go do some cognitive work of some kind and change your reactions. You can do CBT with a counselor, you can take a mindfulness class geared towards people with chronic pain, you can do whatever you want.

People who think tinnitus is literally the worst non-fatal chronic condition imaginable haven't spend very much time around the chronically ill. I have a close relative who dealt with a neurological manifestation of Lyme Disease for a decade. You know what her worst physical symptom was? Literally feeling like her arms and legs were on fire. For YEARS. If you think the ringing is worse than that, I encourage you to go grab a hot poker out of the fireplace, and stick it to your arm for just a couple seconds... I bet you'll forget about the ringing right quick!

In her case, she did eventually get a lot better... but only after a decade of doctors telling her she was basically fucked and "learn to live with it". Does that sound familiar?

 

[linearb]

However, from what I have read T gets worse the older you get.

I'm not sure what you've been reading, but everything I've found on this, from longitudinal peer-reviewed studies, to anecdotes, is a lot less dire than that. It gets worse for some people, it gets better for some people, it stays the same for some people. You are more likely to find accounts of it getting worse online, because people who get better or stay the same and adapt have better things to do with their lives than write about it. I've known two people who've dealt with this bullshit for decades and they both told me it pretty much stayed constant.

Let's say you have excruciating pain does it really matter if you emotionally react to it or not? The pain is there no matter if you feel bad about it or not. And that's my point.

You're wrong, it does matter, and we're starting to see more and more research about this. Thoughts are not just ephemeral things, thoughts are a physical reality, the way we think, changes the brain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25376753

CONCLUSION:
A standardized mindfulness program (MBSR) contributes positively to pain management and can exert clinically relevant effects on several important dimensions in patients with long-lasting chronic pain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25181729

This report follows JK, a Marine with chronic pain related to an injury while on combat deployment through participation in a 6-week self-care-based Mind Body Medicine program and for 7 months after completion of the program. JK developed and sustained a regular meditation practice throughout the follow-up period. JK showed a noticeable reduction in perceived disability and improvements in psychological health, sleep latency/duration and quality of life.

You say the volume of the T hasn't gone down one bit but it got better. Isn't that a paradox? Or is 'better' a synonym for I-can-ignore-it-better-now or ATM?

I was sort of bonkers over this issue last spring, so I rented a place out in the country, started spending my weekends out there, and put myself through a sort of boot-camp to reboot. I got into the habit of daily meditation, exercising 3-4x a week, keeping journals of how I was feeling, and limiting my exposure to traumatic or unpleasant media/thoughts.

Somehow in all that I got a lot better, went from thinking about my T 90% of the time to thinking about it 10% of the time... and then I got lazy, got sucked into the bullshit of the day to day, and lost my discipline to meditate, exercise, be kind to myself... and lo and behold, here I am, suffering again. This is probably the fifth time I've been through that same basic cycle in the past 5 years, and I swear to god, one of these days I'm going to remember to stick with the program even after I start feeling a lot better!