Tinnitus Loudness

[meeruf]

I'm a little confused. My audiologist said that there is no such thing as tinnitus volume. She said that all tinnitus is the same, its just that we react different on it, and that decide if we look at it as loud or not loud.

I don't know if I can believe that. My T seems to go up and down, in both volume and pitch. No matter how I'm feeling. Sometimes its loud and I don't care, other times its almost gone and I get bothered by it. Yesterday it was loud, I went upstairs to relax. Then in suddenly went away. I continued to relax, but it gradually came back.

I don't get it...

 

[MT09]

I totally disagree. T definitely varies in volume, type of sound and in so many other things! She's wrong in saying that everyone has it in the same volume, but different people hear it differently. Proof: my own experience. More proof exists, you just gotta go through this forum.

 

[Markku]

I also disagree with the audiologist's statement.

I'm quoting a post from Tinnitus Pitch and Loudness Matching

There are two ways to look at the loudness match, Peach.

One is in dB, the number that shows up on the audiometer gauge in front of the audiologist at the moment that you, sitting inside the booth, indicate that the sound you are hearing through the headphones (working slowly up from 0 dB) is as loud as your tinnitus at the tinnitus frequency (pitch). Lets say that Fred and Bill both have tinnitus that measures 43 dB using this method.

The second is in dB SL - dB sensory level.

OK. Fred has really good hearing at the tinnitus frequency, a threshold of 0 dB. But Bill, on the other hand, has a 40 dB threshold of hearing at the tinnitus frequency. That means that he does not hear he first 40 dB of sound introduced to the booth. Fred goes first, and at 43 dB he indicates that the sound he hears through the headphones is as loud as his tinnitus. Next comes Bill. The audiologist starts increasing the volume of the sound being introduced to the booth. 10 dB. 20 dB. 30 dB. What's Bill doing? He's still waiting for the audiologist to start the test! When the audiologist gets to 40 dB, Bill finally hears the faintest sound through the headphones. (Remember, at 40 dB Fred was already hearing a very loud sound through his headphones, but it still wasn't loud enough to match his tinnitus!) Back to Bill. At 43 dB (a mere 3 dB over his threshold of hearing) he indicates to the audiologist that the sound he is hearing though the headphones is as loud as his tinnitus.

So both Fred and Bill have a 43 dB tinnitus loudness match, right? But clearly Fred's tinnitus is much much louder than Bill's. And the only way we would know that from the loudness match would be by taking the threshold of hearing into account. That's what dB SL does. It subtracts the threshold of hearing from the loudness match in dB. So Fred's tinnitus is 43 dB SL, while Bill's is 3 dB SL.

Please note that I chose these figures for illustrative purposes only - as a tinnitus loudness match of 43 dB SL is almost unheard of. In fact in 70% of cases the loudness match is 6 dB SL or less.

Please also note that neither dB nor dB SL correlates well with how loud you judge your tinnitus to be on a 1 to 10 scale. But that's another story.

Hope this helps more than confuses.

 

[Hopeful]

I was told about a study done in Germany, where T patients had the T loudness matched (as I recall it was done by masking level) on different days. Some days they reported their T to be loud, somedays the opposite. The study apparently showed that the masking volume was the same everyday.

It's hard to believe, though.

 

[JTP]

On TRT planet all tinnitus is the same, because it is all about reaction. One day you won't react your T at all and it ceases to exist. This is the highest level of habituation and everyone reaches it eventually. All of our neurons will become unresponsive.

 

[Erlend]

That's bullshit. I've read stories about T so loud they can't hear people talk. Obviously that's not because they've not "accepted" it yet lol.

How can you even be an audiologist and come with such ridiculous statements?

 

[Lulubug69]

They obviously don't personally suffer with it.

 

[rodstar43]

I'm a little confused. My audiologist said that there is no such thing as tinnitus volume. She said that all tinnitus is the same, its just that we react different on it, and that decide if we look at it as loud or not loud.

I don't know if I can believe that. My T seems to go up and down, in both volume and pitch. No matter how I'm feeling. Sometimes its loud and I don't care, other times its almost gone and I get bothered by it. Yesterday it was loud, I went upstairs to relax. Then in suddenly went away. I continued to relax, but it gradually came back.

I don't get it...

don't feel alone. My T sure seems to change volumn. I have had the same experiences
rodstar43

 

[meeruf]

On TRT planet all tinnitus is the same, because it is all about reaction. One day you won't react your T at all and it ceases to exist. This is the highest level of habituation and everyone reaches it eventually. All of our neurons will become unresponsive.

Well, I don't understand that either. Some days I don't react to it at all now, but its still loud. Other days I'm bothered, but I have to put my fingers in my ears to hear it. It goes up and down all by it self. It's like it have its own mind.

 

[erik]

I think tinnitus does have its own volume knob. I know my is pretty loud on some days and then I can have days where it is whisper quiet. I don't think it is that way because of my reaction. There is a physical change in the loudness level. I don't really react negatively to my T loud or soft anymore, but it still exists either way.

 

[nills]

On TRT planet all tinnitus is the same, because it is all about reaction. One day you won't react your T at all and it ceases to exist. This is the highest level of habituation and everyone reaches it eventually. All of our neurons will become unresponsive.

I`d like to see some scientific backup for such a bold statement when all our personal experiences tell diffrent.

One way to check tinnitus loudness is to match the frequency with a frequency simulator and than turn up the volume until you just reach the border where you can`t differ the sound outside from the sound inside ... I once showed this to my girlfriend to let her have a listen, she started crying because she than understood what we have to go through.

 

[Per]

It's way passed rude to make bold statements about peoples T volume when she doesn't have it herself. Mind blowing stuff. These medical "experts" never stops to amaze me, all for the wrong reasons I'm afraid. Of course theres a real difference in volume that doesn't run on mental perception.

When I read that some describe their volume as so low that they need to stick fingers in their ears to hear it I must admit I feel very envious. I don't dare to mask my T cause it would mean cranking the masking sound volume up to a mad level. Shame on her for being such an ignorant provider of nonsense.

 

[JTP]

Just to make it clear, my earlier post was my clumsy attempt to make parody of TRT principles. AFAIK Meeruf is undergoing TRT therapy and I think the audiologist is trying to draw your attention from your T characteristics to your reaction to T. After all that is the part that can be changed with therapy.

Yesterday I reacted so terribly I could not mask at all, today my reaction seems to have gone down few decibels or my water tap is louder.

 

[daedalus]

"these results suggest tinnitus loudness is coded by gamma band activity in the contralateral auditory cortex" Tinnitus loudness is even observed by EEG since 2009 !

More in this old paper: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0007396

 

[vickilynn]

I'm a little confused. My audiologist said that there is no such thing as tinnitus volume. She said that all tinnitus is the same, its just that we react different on it, and that decide if we look at it as loud or not loud.

I don't know if I can believe that. My T seems to go up and down, in both volume and pitch. No matter how I'm feeling. Sometimes its loud and I don't care, other times its almost gone and I get bothered by it. Yesterday it was loud, I went upstairs to relax. Then in suddenly went away. I continued to relax, but it gradually came back.

I don't get it...

The guy's just plain wrong. Sometimes mine will go up in volume and pitch for several seconds and back down. I'm not imagining things. Unfortunately, lately it seems to be a steady louder. Don't know why.

 

[AnneG]

That's Crazy, I have seen a lot of post that simply proves that wrong. Its different for everyone, some have it high, some have it low. Even us, we can prove that. Were not IMAGINING it. Clearly that audiologist doesn't get it. My T increases sometimes and gets so low that i almost think its gone and i KNOW its real because i do hear it.

 

[mick]

No question - my tinnitus volume fluctuates from day-to-day, week-to-week. It unequivocally is not my reaction to the T that is changing. It is indeed the volume. When it is really loud I have trouble hearing conversations. When it is really low, it is very easy to not notice it at all.

 

[Relic Hunter]

I'm a little confused. My audiologist said that there is no such thing as tinnitus volume. She said that all tinnitus is the same, its just that we react different on it, and that decide if we look at it as loud or not loud.

I don't know if I can believe that. My T seems to go up and down, in both volume and pitch. No matter how I'm feeling. Sometimes its loud and I don't care, other times its almost gone and I get bothered by it. Yesterday it was loud, I went upstairs to relax. Then in suddenly went away. I continued to relax, but it gradually came back.

I don't get it...

Your audio person is full of CRAP..

 

[Riikka]

I also feel I can't believe tinnitus has always the same loudness. I had moderate tinnitus before and now I feel the volume has definitely increased. Can it all be in my perception or habituation that has worsened?

I also feel a lot of people that say "Yes, I have tinnitus, but it has never bothered me" might have a very quiet sound.

 

[Per]

@Riikka,

Yes, we all have unique T features and the volume varies a great deal. I find it especially weird when someone that doesn't even have T themselves are saying it's all in the perception. It's really insulting to be honest.

 

[Paul D]

My own internal volume level varies from almost imperceptable (rare) to excruciating (occasional). I've found it best to try not to directly, cognatively recognize it on an hour-by-hour, day-by-day basis, although when it's excruciating it's pretty tough to ignore or accept it. Likewise, when I review what was a particulary good day, more often than not I realize my T was way off in the background on that day. My T seems to have become more tolerable, if not dissipated, if I draw focus away from it, not toward it. Hence the reason I don't visit this site much anymore (but I must say it's the best resource out there!).

 

[Leah]

Word of the day Volume.. I know mine changes, my negative reaction is when it is loud.

 

[erik]

Volume I think is the issue for many of us. My T volume always fluctuates. It doesn't impact me as much as it used to but occasionally I still get annoyed on the louder days not quiet ones so volume is definitely a factor.

 

[Karen]

I agree with what everyone here is saying. And I'm one of those people who really did have mild tinnitus that didn't bother me, back before I took an ototoxic drug! I can tell you from personal experience that there is a BIG difference in my tinnitus volume today from what it was back then. There was definitely a change in volume!!