You counsel people? Are you a professional? Professional psychologists shouldn't be doing an otologist's work but do so because otologists ignore hyperacusis and tinnitus. They're pretty cretinous folk that help no one really, and that's in normal life, not taking into account tinnitus and hyperacusis, where billions of years of being used to not dealing with those conditions aren't simply flipped to use their impenetrable jargon, with ''habituation'', or where fake depression pops up when in reality it's merely the tinnitus and hyperacusis. Are you then giving non-professional counselling?
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Tinnitus Retraining Therapy
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
MemberYou are perfectly right as always....
I admire your insight in judging me correctly once again....
Please keep up the splendid work
All the best
Michael
My hyperacusis vibrates at the same exact frequency as the tinnitus. I ask you again, how can TRT help the hyperacusis without decreasing the tinnitus.
As TRT claims this, and it's impossible, then TRT is lying. It's no surprise TRT would then be bedfellows with shrinks and their sofas and their Tony Sopranos and Freuds and stuff. It's insulting for someone with T and H to be sent to a shrink, but you keep repeating the TRT and shrink mantras without proof, debate or reality checks. That got the folks in chat-h into a massive rut after decades of the act.
As TRT claims this, and it's impossible, then TRT is lying. It's no surprise TRT would then be bedfellows with shrinks and their sofas and their Tony Sopranos and Freuds and stuff. It's insulting for someone with T and H to be sent to a shrink, but you keep repeating the TRT and shrink mantras without proof, debate or reality checks. That got the folks in chat-h into a massive rut after decades of the act.
When you learn to correspond with me showing manners and respect, instead of impudence, then I will answer you in the appropriate way that I deem fit. Until then expect more of the same or I may choose not to reply to you at all.
Good day.
Michael
- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
Indeed. With +5000 posts on a tinnitus forum (of all places) you sound more like the leader of an undercurrent tinnitus movement than someone who is habituated:
In fact – and despite your attempts to take the position of the wise-old-man – you have yet to learn the meaning of habituation. But I can share this much with you: there is a great difference between wishing you were habituated and actually being habituated. Trust me... unlike you, I know!
Yes yes stall stall stall, the Jastreboff manual, make it personal, etc. I don't expect anything. You've never debated anyone, not just me, but that goes into the definition of being a TRT provider. Any inch that a TRT provider gives to theories or operations that people have undertaken that have improved or worsened their H or T, is obviously going to be a discredit to the hilarious notion that applying a sound to the ear is help of any sort. That's why TRT providers are often accused of therapeutic nihilism, their first rule is precisely that debate is what patients do to not get better. TRT and counselling has always based its ''success statistics'' on this circular reasoning. Even gathering data to differentiate types would be against their philistine attitude to T and H. The half a dozen mantras of TRT include among more: ''the ear is just a vessel'', the ''oh look at me I'm quoting the limbic system and it allows this stupid psychologist with a stupid graduate degree at the stupid college to chime in'', or ''don't overthink it, I'm here to demystify the ear for you, it's not the cochlea, it's not the middle ear, it's not a broken nerve, it's this stupid psychologist that has the answers'', or ''Hello, It's Jonathan Hazell, and an anthropologist told me cavemen couldn't sleep if they didn't have bird and chickens yapping in their ears at 5am, silence is a threat and that is all the proof I need to show you that we are hardwired into thinking that silence is a threat, and I'll now write a book about it and spend my career abusing my patients, but it still blows my mind why rich people live in quiet suburbs, it's probably just a fad''
I'm not even asking you, I'm just leaving the question in the air for TRT proponents to gawk at and fail at again. There's no answer a TRT proponent can give when they're outed for claiming they can improve H without having to improve T, and when I insist that the link between the two is as intimate as it is in my case, all they can do is try to psychoanalyze, stall, make it personal, but the truth is always the same, shitty research and no evidence to back up their shoddy af claims.
So I have baseline high and low freq tinnitus in silence. For TRTardians it's just a hilarious coincidence that the hyperacusis I have consists of exactly these two frequencies getting louder when met with external sound. It's probably a damaged cochlea, but it could be a pressure in the middle ear, or issues in the trigeminal nerve all the way down at the eustachian tube. My whole hyperacusis consists of a vibration that thumps and reverberates when my ears meet new sounds, no matter how quiet. But during the sound the tinnituses are also increased. Quite a few people have reported this link between low frequency vibratory tinnitus and a sudden type of hyperacusis with quiet sounds that consists of having to put up with a vibration and a thump accompanying the external sound. It's pretty much that the ear is wobbling when it should be quiet, so when external sound hits it, it reverberates.
But no, take that to a TRT entity, and they'll bluff their way through the interview, stall, and won't admit they just haven't collected the data on this, they haven't even tried to differentiate Ts and Hs, to find links between them, let alone think about why on earth an H would consist of something that's so obviously a reverberating T. Even trying to research would be against TRT dogma, as it would give credence to those patients ''wasting their time in forums theorising''. TRT is so weak it says it helps the H without helping the T, a reverberating tinnitus couldn't be further off their list of priorities to research, to debate, it would collapse their house made of matchsticks. We're talking about a clown posse that fought on the forums to take away validity from the term ''reactive tinnitus'', which isn't even really like this as ''reactive T'' is usually referred to as a reaction that happens after a secondary acoustic trauma once the patient already is in a fucked up state, and the TRT clowns think it's important to replace this term with their own made up shrinkbabble word ''setback''. So ''reverberating tinnitus'' is even further off the radar thanks to their decades of deflection and obfuscation, it would be like a cross and garlic and Count Dracula.
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Some of us who have been ''wasting time on forums over the years'' like Rob (and his clowns at chat-h) says, have noticed that both whether it's vibratory or not, whether you feel it in the ear or elsewhere, and whether you have it in a radical state and for the quietest of sounds like I do, or whether you have it in the more common form of pain H to loud sounds and in a more moderate degree to sudden quiet ones (Silverstein seminar patients mention it, but not with the emphasis that I do), there's a form of H that is never mentioned in the instruction manuals on H. And it's that sudden sounds are more bothersome than continuous sounds.
This form of H is always shoved under the rug by the pseudo-gatekeepers at TRT for the very simple reason that it would mess with their statistics. It's a form of H that is never mentioned in the ''forms of H'' that they promote, and it's mentioned in passing by the asshole Jastreboff, but only in a shitty way, where he deflects to try to prove it's misophonia and a ''sensitivity to random sounds where misophonia is EVERYTHING that doesn't increase in discomfort at the same rate as loudness''. This would then truly destroy him and take his credibility away in the forums in the long run. The percentage of people that have this type of H is pretty large, and it would be embarassing to have their subset of ''success'' data ravaged by people that were merely reporting better conditions by applying a levelled out continuous sound to drown out sudden sounds.
So not only do you get the ''reverberating tinnitus'' scam, you get the ''sudden hyperacusis'' monkey business.
This form of H is always shoved under the rug by the pseudo-gatekeepers at TRT for the very simple reason that it would mess with their statistics. It's a form of H that is never mentioned in the ''forms of H'' that they promote, and it's mentioned in passing by the asshole Jastreboff, but only in a shitty way, where he deflects to try to prove it's misophonia and a ''sensitivity to random sounds where misophonia is EVERYTHING that doesn't increase in discomfort at the same rate as loudness''. This would then truly destroy him and take his credibility away in the forums in the long run. The percentage of people that have this type of H is pretty large, and it would be embarassing to have their subset of ''success'' data ravaged by people that were merely reporting better conditions by applying a levelled out continuous sound to drown out sudden sounds.
So not only do you get the ''reverberating tinnitus'' scam, you get the ''sudden hyperacusis'' monkey business.
Just to share this with anyone coming here for support and looking for something positive...
My CBT therapy has made a huge difference in how I react to tinnitus & today I started TRT, it's weird, I can't lie, having another sound in your head as well as the squealing high pitched tinnitus... takes a bit of getting used to I guess, I'll keep you posted but 3 hours in it's a nice change from wanting to hold my head when the room is silent...
My CBT therapy has made a huge difference in how I react to tinnitus & today I started TRT, it's weird, I can't lie, having another sound in your head as well as the squealing high pitched tinnitus... takes a bit of getting used to I guess, I'll keep you posted but 3 hours in it's a nice change from wanting to hold my head when the room is silent...
I'm happy CBT has worked for you. Please keep us updated on your TRT progress.
TRT, As I See It.
I think some people misunderstand TRT and the way it can help tinnitus. Whilst a person is entitled to an opinion, if they haven't been on the programme and only read reports on it, I don't believe they are getting the full picture. A number of people have asked me about its effectiveness and when should it be administered. I covered this in my post: What is TRT and when should it be started: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-is-trt-and-when-should-it-be-started.19024/
TRT has quite a following and has caused much debate in this forum and elsewhere on the Internet. Unfortunately, a lot of these comments haven't been favourable, although those that have had the treatment or elements of it have said they found it helpful. This treatment is expensive and I will be candid and say, only those that can afford it are able to try it.
Where I live the treatment is free but it is only available at selected hospitals. Even then, some don't follow the TRT protocol and adapt the treatment to their requirements but good results have still been possible. In some parts of the UK it's just not available nor is CBT. Therefore, anyone wanting TRT will have to pay privately at clinic. Other forum members have told me the treatment is free in their country and like the UK, it has been adapted to include some elements of the therapy. This may be wearing one or two white noise generators and not always having tinnitus counselling with a Hearing Therapist, so a person may be left to just get along with it.
I have learned in some countries medical insurance won't touch TRT, so a person will have to pay for it out of their own pocket, which I think this is unfortunate.
So what is TRT and if one is able to pay for it should they, taking into account some of the negative comments that it has received? Having had TRT twice over 20 years following the TRT protocol, I will try to shed some more light on this treatment and hopefully give the individual a little more clarity to make up their own mind on whether the financial outlay is worth it, but more importantly; is it effective as a treatment for someone that has tinnitus and hyperacusis and enable them to have a better quality of life?
I first want to say the following is based on my own opinion and therefore is not professional medical advice. The onset of tinnitus can be quite an emotional roller coaster for a lot of people, and I believe a person needs time for this to settle. Many people habituate within the first six months to one year of the onset of tinnitus without any treatment. If a person just has tinnitus without any additional symptoms, such as dizziness, deafness or balance problems. I think a period of at least six months should elapse before starting a long-term treatment such as TRT. Anyone paying privately needs to know they are getting the proper treatment. Any clinic not giving you this service then I advise you to go elsewhere because it is not TRT. You should be given two white noise generators to wear and also having regular counselling sessions with a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist. More is explained in the above link.
TRT is not a complete cure so anyone seeking this might be disappointed. However, the sound therapy, which involves wearing white noise generators, I believe can cure hyperacusis as in my case. It should be noted, whilst this treatment may not cure tinnitus, many people find its perception reduces to such a low level they can comfortably live with it. Habituate. In some instances a person might be unaware of their tinnitus for long periods. Each person will respond to it differently.
If you have ever lost someone that is close to you, such as a parent, partner or even a pet then you will know what it is to grieve. Most people will go through this process at some point in their life. It is not often talked about but we all know it's something that's inevitable and will come to us sooner or later perhaps even more than once in our lifetime. It requires a period of time for a person to accept that their life has changed, and time is needed to adjust so they will eventually be able to move on.
Why am I saying this some of you might be wondering? A forum member recently asked what does TRT involve? I was explaining to him, the counselling part of the therapy and the relationship between patient and Hearing Therapist. At first the therapist discusses with the patient how the tinnitus makes them feel and how it has impacted on their life. Often people say they have lost interest in the things they once liked doing, which is perfectly understandable. The main goal is to gradually help them to look at life differently and with a more positive outlook. Over time the negative thinking that is often associated with tinnitus and hyperacusis is gradually dispelled and demystified. The Hearing Therapist does this in a controlled and precise manner so that the patient feels relaxed and not pressured.
The forum member then said it sounds like a form of grief counselling. After we had spoken I thought about it and have to say I believe it to be a good description, because that's what the therapy part of TRT is akin to. Thanks Paul @PaulBe. The amount of times people have told me over the phone or read posts in this forum: "If I could only get my life back". "My life used to be perfect". "I keep looking at peoples ears and wondering what my life used to be like". "If I could only hear silence again". And so on.
When someone gets loud intrusive tinnitus with or without hyperacusis, in an instant their world has been turned upside down. Some go through periods of stress, anxiety even depression and yearn for the way life was before the onset. They need time to adjust and to accept this new anomaly in their life. Some have an easier time than others at habituating, so may not need the help of a tinnitus counselling. For some that find the tinnitus and hyperacusis severely intrusive TRT and CBT can prove to be helpful. It all depends on the individual, their emotional makeup and the severity of the condition because we are all different. It is for this reason; the treatment can take up to 2 years for a person to adjust to a different way of life and often with a positive outcome.
I was fortunate to have TRT twice and found it to be helpful on both occasions. I only wish that it were more readily available to others.
Michael
If you have started TRT I strongly advise you not to talk about the therapy in any tinnitus forum and preferably keep away from tinnitus forums. The reason being, there is a lot of negative bias against TRT and other forums of tinnitus treatment. Reading these posts can have a detrimental effect and can halt, or completely stop you from making any progress with TRT treatment.
Keep away from tinnitus forums whilst having any form of tinnitus treatment. If you must visit them, don't discus the treatment you are having until you have finished its course, as you will undoubtedly regret the error of your ways.
I wish you well.
Michael
You have never tried TRT only read data on it from people that haven't a clue about it effectiveness. They are equally biased against it as you are having never tried it. Furthermore, a lot of these reports are written by people that have never experienced noise induced tinnitus or hyperacusis. Wearing white noise generators as part of TRT, completely cured my hyperacusis in 2 years and has remained this way for 23 years.
Michael
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Tinnitus is a curse!
Whatever helps sufferers to cope, whatever therapy, strategy, method, gizmo, practice, etc... is of value.
Slate it all you want.
When desperate people are looking for help, offering them nothing can not be the answer.
IMNSHO.
Whatever helps sufferers to cope, whatever therapy, strategy, method, gizmo, practice, etc... is of value.
Slate it all you want.
When desperate people are looking for help, offering them nothing can not be the answer.
IMNSHO.
What is the difference between using a "sound device" and using headphones from an iPhone, or noise cancelling headphones? Please advise...
Also, does anyone have any experience with TRT?
Finally, this may be a dumb question, but does anyone know if it makes a difference treating one or both of your ears with TRT? Please advise... for example, if you start listening to pink noise... can you do it ONLY in the affected ear? I haven't seen any articles addressing this.
Also, does anyone have any experience with TRT?
Finally, this may be a dumb question, but does anyone know if it makes a difference treating one or both of your ears with TRT? Please advise... for example, if you start listening to pink noise... can you do it ONLY in the affected ear? I haven't seen any articles addressing this.
@Stocktrader86
I have had TRT twice with good results. It is a specialist treatment which has to be done with a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist. It involves wearing two white noise generators and having regular counselling. The treatment can take up to two years to complete. It is not a treatment you can do yourself or use an iPhone or any type of headphones.
Click on the links below and read my articles on tinnitus.
Michael
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-is-trt-and-when-should-it-be-started.19024/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/trt-as-i-see-it.19555/
Hi there, I have gone through TRT twice. The devices are absurdly expensive. The counselling portion is worth it if your anxiety is sky high and you really need the support. Otherwise reading Jastreboff or even searching TRT online might be sufficient.
As someone pointed out above the generators provide sound enrichment, the counselling provides insight.
In my view it was impossible to habituate to the catastrophic sound I was hearing but over the last seven years it has come down to a kind of general hissing on many days.
In terms of sleeping, I am able to wear the sound generators, which I do on bad nights. I also created a playlist of music that lasts for about an hour. It's generally made up of soothing mellow folk music. At one point I was also using hypnosis tapes as part of the playlist but no longer.
And I did find one trick. If I wake up in the morning and the tinnitus is bad, if I play music through earbuds and fall back asleep, about 50% of the time my tinnitus improves a great deal.
My entire regimen is much longer. It includes Ayurvedic formula made up of a bunch of herbs prescribed by an Ayurvedic practitioner, Acupuncture, Craniosacral therapy, hypnosis that I did for about two years, before bed 10 mg of melatonin, one and a half milligrams of Klonopin, 30 mg of Celexa, 300 mg of gabapentin, Valerian or good night sleep tea that contains Valerian.
At the beginning the tinnitus was at the level of a police whistle blowing directly in my ear and I thought it was more than I could endure. I lost 30 pounds and was not able to sleep more than an hour or two for months.
Somehow I made it through, and things are way way better although still challenging on certain days.
You spoke of the sound changing and that might be due to the sound generators but it might've happened on its own. During my first six months the sound changed quite a bit. I had the trifecta which was three sounds at once: A high-pitched whistle combined with a tonal sound combined with something like crickets.
Check to see if you have hyperacusis or hypersensitivity to sound as this can also be a big problem.
Good luck
Stephan
As someone pointed out above the generators provide sound enrichment, the counselling provides insight.
In my view it was impossible to habituate to the catastrophic sound I was hearing but over the last seven years it has come down to a kind of general hissing on many days.
In terms of sleeping, I am able to wear the sound generators, which I do on bad nights. I also created a playlist of music that lasts for about an hour. It's generally made up of soothing mellow folk music. At one point I was also using hypnosis tapes as part of the playlist but no longer.
And I did find one trick. If I wake up in the morning and the tinnitus is bad, if I play music through earbuds and fall back asleep, about 50% of the time my tinnitus improves a great deal.
My entire regimen is much longer. It includes Ayurvedic formula made up of a bunch of herbs prescribed by an Ayurvedic practitioner, Acupuncture, Craniosacral therapy, hypnosis that I did for about two years, before bed 10 mg of melatonin, one and a half milligrams of Klonopin, 30 mg of Celexa, 300 mg of gabapentin, Valerian or good night sleep tea that contains Valerian.
At the beginning the tinnitus was at the level of a police whistle blowing directly in my ear and I thought it was more than I could endure. I lost 30 pounds and was not able to sleep more than an hour or two for months.
Somehow I made it through, and things are way way better although still challenging on certain days.
You spoke of the sound changing and that might be due to the sound generators but it might've happened on its own. During my first six months the sound changed quite a bit. I had the trifecta which was three sounds at once: A high-pitched whistle combined with a tonal sound combined with something like crickets.
Check to see if you have hyperacusis or hypersensitivity to sound as this can also be a big problem.
Good luck
Stephan
@Stocktrader86 in terms of TRT the sound devices are supposed to be in both ears and at a pretty equal setting. I was counselled against using it in one ear. Also the setting is supposed to be below the level of the tinnitus so you can habituate. Good luck with whatever you choose.
I've been doing TRT since March 2017 (met with Dr. J).
I feel it has only increased my habituation very slightly. My entire problem is on "loud days" which are 4 week on average although it can vary. Quiet days are so low that it never bothered me. But on loud days, I can easily hear it in the shower as it's such an abrasive buzzing noise (like an insect). the quiet days it's a low ring. I also get other sounds that are subtle... sometimes like a low vacuum in the background, or an accordion playing... or electronic beeps. But these "secondary" sounds are not bad. It's that loud buzzing that is bothersome.
I do like wearing the ear mask/noise generators as they do a very good job of getting my mind off the tinnitus. I largely forget about it when wearing them. This is the closest thing to a medication for tinnitus in my opinion. However, when I take them off it hits me. I was hoping my brain would have habituation more by this point in time. With that said, my loud days do not interfere with me doing anything like concentration, sleep, etc. But my quiet days are extremely pleasant as a relief. If I lost my quiet days, I fear it would be very difficult.
I was told I would possibly benefit with a hearing aid as I have high frequency hearing loss, but I don't think I need one (neither does my girlfriend). I'm fine with normal hearing, conversations, etc.
I do take a low dose Valium at night (about 2.5 mg daily) and perhaps that is not good for habituation, but it's not a lot either.
On any rate, I will continue.
I feel it has only increased my habituation very slightly. My entire problem is on "loud days" which are 4 week on average although it can vary. Quiet days are so low that it never bothered me. But on loud days, I can easily hear it in the shower as it's such an abrasive buzzing noise (like an insect). the quiet days it's a low ring. I also get other sounds that are subtle... sometimes like a low vacuum in the background, or an accordion playing... or electronic beeps. But these "secondary" sounds are not bad. It's that loud buzzing that is bothersome.
I do like wearing the ear mask/noise generators as they do a very good job of getting my mind off the tinnitus. I largely forget about it when wearing them. This is the closest thing to a medication for tinnitus in my opinion. However, when I take them off it hits me. I was hoping my brain would have habituation more by this point in time. With that said, my loud days do not interfere with me doing anything like concentration, sleep, etc. But my quiet days are extremely pleasant as a relief. If I lost my quiet days, I fear it would be very difficult.
I was told I would possibly benefit with a hearing aid as I have high frequency hearing loss, but I don't think I need one (neither does my girlfriend). I'm fine with normal hearing, conversations, etc.
I do take a low dose Valium at night (about 2.5 mg daily) and perhaps that is not good for habituation, but it's not a lot either.
On any rate, I will continue.
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