Tinnitus: Ringing in the Brain | Josef Rauschecker | TEDxCharlottesville

[EatMoTacos]

At the end on the slides "where do we go from here" DBS and serotonin and dopamine are used then drug treatments? Was that what he meant when he said "help is on its way"?

He believes that serotonin and dopamine are key indicators for future drug developments and possible cure. I'm not to sure about this but I did see a post here about having too much serotonin can worsen T in some cases.

 

[Cal18]

For those who would like to see the power point he did in his presentation.

Hmmm... The slide mentions lack of dopamine in the substantia nigra (part of the basal ganglia). My T came on during a reaction which causes a blockage of dopamine in the basal ganglia. Coincidence? Doesn't seem likely.

A natural substance which increases dopamine in this area of the brain: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15478206

@Paulmanlike For deep brain stimulation, this study should be opening up again:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01988688
I don't think anywhere offers DBS for tinnitus yet but I could be wrong. I know they do it for Parkinson's and dystonia.

 

[EatMoTacos]

Hmmm... The slide mentions lack of dopamine in the substantia nigra (part of the basal ganglia). My T came on during a reaction which causes a blockage of dopamine in the basal ganglia. Coincidence? Doesn't seem likely.

A natural substance which increases dopamine in this area of the brain: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15478206

@Paulmanlike For deep brain stimulation, this study should be opening up again:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01988688
I don't think anywhere offers DBS for tinnitus yet but I could be wrong. I know they do it for Parkinson's and dystonia.

Also, take a look at this:



He also appears in this PBS News Hour clip. Which another researcher finds the same thing he does which is deep brain stimulation on a patient with Parkinson (he also had T) and surprisingly his T went away.

 

[Krish230]

Which another researcher finds the same thing he does which is deep brain stimulation on a patient with Parkinson (he also had T) and surprisingly his T went away.

Found that bit very interesting. Seems like there's progress being made towards not only objectively measuring tinnitus, but curing it properly through surgery.

 

[EatMoTacos]

Found that bit very interesting. Seems like there's progress being made towards not only objectively measuring tinnitus, but curing it properly through surgery.

That is what we hope. I have a feeling he will come up with a drug first to maybe suppress T or lower it, and that will buy some time for other researchers to maybe ultimately find a cure to eliminate it. Until then, I guess we have to wait.

 

[Melike]

That is what we hope. I have a feeling he will come up with a drug first to maybe suppress T or lower it, and that will buy some time for other researchers to maybe ultimately find a cure to eliminate it. Until then, I guess we have to wait.

I've read somewhere that he will be conducting new SSRI studies.

 

[Paulmanlike]

I have been on all the SSRI's and one anti psychotic for treatment of anxiety/obsessions = none of have any influence on my tinnitus whether it reduces or increases it. So a little bit skeptical on why drugs to influence serotonin or dopamine will have any effect on tinnitus.

 

[Melike]

He believes that serotonin and dopamine are key indicators for future drug developments and possible cure. I'm not to sure about this but I did see a post here about having too much serotonin can worsen T in some cases.

I think it is not completely related to the quantity of serotonin & dopamine. Their balance, proper placement in the network he mentioned + other neurotransmitters (f.e GABA) matter also.

For example it says;

'Indeed, extensive studies in animal models have demonstrated that specifically vmPFC undergoes dramatic structural modification when the animals are exposed to long-lasting stress [143]. Interestingly, dopamine release upon stress is increased in the PFC and inhibited in the NAc(in tinnitus patients)'

It is from one of the studies I've posted on this thread before.

 

[Melike]

I have been on all the SSRI's and one anti psychotic for treatment of anxiety/obsessions = none of have any influence on my tinnitus whether it reduces or increases it. So a little bit skeptical on why drugs to influence serotonin or dopamine will have any effect on tinnitus.

In my opinion, SSRI's cannot be effective alone when they are used to treat depression / anxiety / obsession. It has to be coupled with other elements. I am a big fan of CBT, meditation, natural vagus nerve stimulation.

Since we all know already, our brains are plastic and in order to build the neural pathways & regrow the brain areas we smashed with prolonged stress&anxiety, we need to work on them to get bigger. Very similar to the muscle building actually. SSRI's only can help you along the way & get you there faster IMHO.

But thats a long road and lots of things need to be changed.

 

[Paulmanlike]

So what is he talking about how will dopamine serontonin be used as a treatment for tinnitus

 

[Melike]

So what is he talking about how will dopamine serontonin be used as a treatment for tinnitus

Not sure. Thats why he is about to conduct SSRI studies I believe.

 

[Paulmanlike]

https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...the-answer-to-what-causes-ringing-in-the-ears

Found this paper talking about our man Josef that may shine a little light

 

[EatMoTacos]

I've read somewhere that he will be conducting new SSRI studies.

Yeah this is what I meant to say, sorry lol. I don't think the quantity or the amount of dopamine/serotonin matters, I believe it's how he uses them to possible develop some new drug treatments. I also believe he is not also just working on T, from what I have been reading on his research papers that chronic pain is top of his list as well. I forget where I read this but he believes there is a connections with both T and Chronic Pain. Which if you think about it, it does make sense if our inner hair cells die off (or nerve connections) and the brain is lacking that input and thus creates like a constant pain sensation like those of amputees.

I could be wrong though LOL.

 

[Melike]

Yeah this is what I meant to say, sorry lol. I don't think the quantity or the amount of dopamine/serotonin matters, I believe it's how he uses them to possible develop some new drug treatments. I also believe he is not also just working on T, from what I have been reading on his research papers that chronic pain is top of his list as well. I forget where I read this but he believes there is a connections with both T and Chronic Pain. Which if you think about it, it does make sense if our inner hair cells die off (or nerve connections) and the brain is lacking that input and thus creates like a constant pain sensation like those of amputees.

I could be wrong though LOL.

yes, he works on chronic pain as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4587397/

 

[Paulmanlike]

yes, he works on chronic pain as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4587397/

Just read the article and think I follow most of it.

"Help is on its way. We're not quite there yet but we'll have something for you soon"

By the looks of it, 'soon' seems way off, unless more studies are conducted on both invasive and non invasive brain stimulation and developing drugs that target where dopamine and serotonin are meant to be 'placed'.

There was also talk in the article about early intervention before any major plastic changes takes place in the brain and we are all well beyond that early intervention point.

 

[Melike]

By the looks of it, 'soon' seems way off, unless more studies are conducted on both invasive and non invasive brain stimulation and developing drugs that target where dopamine and serotonin are meant to be 'placed'.

What do you want? A cure tomorrow?

There was also talk in the article about early intervention before any major plastic changes takes place in the brain and we are all well beyond that early intervention point.

Could you please tell me where exactly it is mentioned in the article. I couldn't find it.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

These are the parts of the brain responsible for ringing.

http://authors.library.caltech.edu/73238/2/mmc1.pdf

With the world entering advanced technology, institutions such as MIT are able to image just about anything. MIT that develops imaging for NASA may not be able to see everything in space, but by using a lot of different technologies, they can find a planet light years away.

So it wasn't difficult to find the locations within the brain which causes ringing, which was done earlier this year.
Finding a drug to focus on the Left Amygdala and three other locations is going to be a challenge. It will be no different than trying to develop a drug for other diseases and conditions that receive signaling from the brain.

 

[Melike]

These are the parts of the brain responsible for ringing.

http://authors.library.caltech.edu/73238/2/mmc1.pdf

With the world entering advanced technology, institutions such as MIT are able to image just about anything. MIT that develops imaging for NASA may not be able to see everything in space, but by using a lot of different technologies, they can find a planet light years away.

So it wasn't difficult to find the locations within the brain which causes ringing, which was done earlier this year.
Finding a drug to focus on the Left Amygdala and three other locations is going to be a challenge. It will be no different than trying to develop a drug for other diseases and conditions that receive signaling from the brain.

The thing is, there are different, even contradictory studies that show the parts responsible for T.

For Rauschecker and his team, it is certainly nucleus accumbens and ventromedial prefrontal cortex. Involvement of other parts of the brain may be present, but not enough for tinnitus perception to arise.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Melike: First I'm no expect on this subject, but many researchers just a year or two before the Japan study, also though the ventromedial prefrontal cortex was a control trigger. The Japan study is more recent than just about any other study. I know one researcher that said heads are now spinning from data of the Japan study. Place Japan into search at the top of this page and view other support evidence that I posted. I have posted several threads/posts about this. MIT and Cal Poly used radio and electrical signaling that's way beyond a MRI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography

This technology has been recently advanced and isn't for commercial use yet. However, scientists have been using this updated technology per the brain for the last year.

 

[Melike]

@Melike: First I'm no expect on this subject, but many researchers just a year or two before the Japan study, also though the ventromedial prefrontal cortex was a control trigger. The Japan study is more recent than just about any other study. I know one researcher that said heads are now spinning from data of the Japan study. Place Japan into search at the top of this page and view other support evidence that I posted. I have posted several threads/posts about this. MIT and Cal Poly used radio and electrical signaling that's way beyond a MRI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography

This technology has been recently advanced and isn't for commercial use yet. However, scientists have been using this updated technology per the brain for the last year.

Can you please provide me the link of mentioned study?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

The thing is, there are different, even contradictory studies that show the parts responsible for T.

For Rauschecker and his team, it is certainly nucleus accumbens and ventromedial prefrontal cortex. Involvement of other parts of the brain may be present, but not enough for tinnitus perception to arise.

@Melike For those that have tinnitus for more than 6 months or 2 years, there's possible ongoing ailments and conditions responsible for ringing. Some reasons for ringing may be treated and others not. Hearing loss might also have to be addressed if that is part of one's problem.

It also may be different parts of the brain for certain people, but other pathways still may have to be considered as an underlying issue. Rauschecker may be correct in part and newer studies may be correct in part and none of that may offer a solution within it's self. I read somewhere that there's 450 causes of tinnitus all with subgroups, maybe totaling into the thousands or ten of thousands. Drugs is one example, where many types of rare serum drugs can cause tinnitus and/or hearing loss.

All I know is that I'm ringing hard and it's getting difficult for me to even place though into a message. I wish you the best.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Melike The scans are suppose to be somewhere on the net, but I can't find them. The scans were sent to me by attachment from a researcher that was also involved in the Jimenez study. Maybe email Cal Poly for information on brain scans of tinnitus - mmc1pdf

 

[Melike]

@Melike For those that have tinnitus for more than 6 months or 2 years, there's possible ongoing ailments and conditions responsible for ringing. Some reasons for ringing may be treated and others not. Hearing loss might also have to be addressed if that is part of one's problem.

It also may be different parts of the brain for certain people, but other pathways still may have to be considered as an underlying issue. Rauschecker may be correct in part and newer studies may be correct in part and none of that may offer a solution within it's self. I read somewhere that there's 450 causes of tinnitus all with subgroups, maybe totaling into the thousands or ten of thousands. Drugs is one example, where many types of rare serum drugs can cause tinnitus and/or hearing loss.

All I know is that I'm ringing hard and it's getting difficult for me to even place though into a message. I wish you the best.

oh. I feel you. My newly formed somatic T is also flaring up. I hope it subsides soon for you. Take care

 

[France]

Great video! This strand of research may lead to real results.

 

[Paulmanlike]

@HomeoHebbian please see the slide of his presentation in this thread above

 

[EatMoTacos]

Has anyone tried to contact Dr. Rauschecker and maybe invite him to the Forum? I think it would be a good idea to get the directors involved with him since he is working with Tinnitus and maybe he can get some more insight on "us" and possible feedback he could use on his study. I know I wouldn't mind being used in a study to help out this cause.

 

[Raphael7713]

I want to bump this thread. That video that got many sufferers hopeful and curious was uploaded a year ago. Anyone know if dr. Josef has made any updates or progress or anything?

 

[EatMoTacos]

Has anyone tried emailing Dr. Josef Rauschecker? First time I saw his video I cried in hopes, he sounded like he was so sure he could tackle this on going issue. I'm not the only one who has had this for many years.

 

[Ozwel]

Thanks, @christinefisher. Haven't had a chance to watch the video in full yet. But it's great to see a neuroscientist taking tinnitus seriously. Also, I always have felt that tinnitus for many people is coupled with stress, anxiety and/or depression. Dr. Josef appears to feel the same. Now, what's our solution until science catches up?

I know this post is 1 year old, I'm sorry for getting this thread up from the grave, but I'm reading tinnitus is related to stress / anxiety so many times I took this post to discuss the subject (again, yeah).

I was rather stressless before experiencing tinnitus permanently. To be honest, I had tinnitus every time I was leaving concerts or clubs from the age of 16. It was leaving the next day, every time. I was used to it. Until one day it stayed.

Funny thing: I can hear perfectly until 12khz so to all specialists I have no hearing loss.

INDEED, after my tinnitus stayed for a few days my anxiety level got quite high, I started to read some people live with it forever, etc. I was in shock and THEN my life started to know what stress and anxiety are.

So I'm almost convinced we are way too much catalogued as "people with anxiety" hence at risk. We have anxiety because we have tinnitus. Of course some pleople were anxious before for other reasons but I would not be so affirmative about the fact the anxiety and depression can lead to T. I would rather say that our limbic system (as described in the video in the first post of this topic) is in pain for both people with depression, anxiety and tinnitus but there is no evidence that one of these is the cause of the other. They lead to each other but having one of these does not necessary lead to all the other.

I am also highly interested in the video shown in the first post. That guy know what he's talking about and his lab is located at 3-4 hours from my city so I would love to hear more about his next findings.

I'm convinced the solution to T is at least as much connected to the limbic system as our hear or nerve health. Plus, fixing the limbic system would cure so many different mental issues that I"m praying for this guy to get more help/fundings in the future, just like frequency therapeutics.

 

[Steven__]

I know this post is 1 year old, I'm sorry for getting this thread up from the grave, but I'm reading tinnitus is related to stress / anxiety so many times I took this post to discuss the subject (again, yeah).

I was rather stressless before experiencing tinnitus permanently. To be honest, I had tinnitus every time I was leaving concerts or clubs from the age of 16. It was leaving the next day, every time. I was used to it. Until one day it stayed.

Funny thing: I can hear perfectly until 12khz so to all specialists I have no hearing loss.

INDEED, after my tinnitus stayed for a few days my anxiety level got quite high, I started to read some people live with it forever, etc. I was in shock and THEN my life started to know what stress and anxiety are.

So I'm almost convinced we are way too much catalogued as "people with anxiety" hence at risk. We have anxiety because we have tinnitus. Of course some pleople were anxious before for other reasons but I would not be so affirmative about the fact the anxiety and depression can lead to T. I would rather say that our limbic system (as described in the video in the first post of this topic) is in pain for both people with depression, anxiety and tinnitus but there is no evidence that one of these is the cause of the other. They lead to each other but having one of these does not necessary lead to all the other.

I am also highly interested in the video shown in the first post. That guy know what he's talking about and his lab is located at 3-4 hours from my city so I would love to hear more about his next findings.

I'm convinced the solution to T is at least as much connected to the limbic system as our hear or nerve health. Plus, fixing the limbic system would cure so many different mental issues that I"m praying for this guy to get more help/fundings in the future, just like frequency therapeutics.

Yeah I use to have really really bad anxiety but I never had this sound. As soon as I got more confidence stupid me ruin my hearing from noise exposure this one time and now my anxiety is coming back. Overall I don't understand how people say they got this from anxiety. When I would be too scared to do anything outside my house and stay home for actually weeks and non stop needing to take medicine to just walk outside my house (which I don't anymore thank goodness) having panic attacks nonstop yet didn't have Tinnitus. I'm not sure