Tinnitus So Long Ago — Forgot I Had It

[Rubenslash]

Bill, did u also talk to people that dont get permanent spikes from the innocent noises u are afraid of such as microwaves, restaurants etc. And then im speaking about 99.98% of the tinnitus sufferers

 

[Bill Bauer]

Bill, did u also talk to people that dont get permanent spikes from the innocent noises u are afraid of such as microwaves, restaurants etc. And then im speaking about 99.98% of the tinnitus sufferers

Where does the 99.98% figure come from? I have been in contact with a handful of people on this forum. I have also been reading people's posts (from their post in the introduction section to their posts a couple of months later). After I got a secondary acoustic trauma (from a phone = something a healthy person would not even notice), I began paying closer attention to reports of secondary traumas. This limited sample gives me the impression that the majority (75% or more?) end up with preventable secondary injuries.

Not all of these injuries result in permanent spikes, but we don't know how detrimental a spike lasting days (if what I have after that phone incident is a temporary spike, it is about to last longer than a month) is to your recovery. In other words, it is possible that all of the people whose T became permanent could have avoided it by protecting their ears. The causes of these "temporary spikes" might also make the difference between recovery after 4-12 months and a lifelong T.

I believe I read somewhere that only one third of smokers experience any negative effect on their health. My guess is that the rate is a lot higher for T sufferers who choose to not protect their ears in the early, vulnerable days.

 

[Tinker Bell]

Is it the case that certain frequencies are more damaging than other frequencies played at the same volume? I think it was a shock to his ears, and this shock depends on the volume (and possibly on the frequency) - so we don't know the exact cause of his spike.

I think so. Consider a high pitch frequency at 80 decibels versus a mid range frequency at the same volume. Pretty sure I'd prefer a lower frequency.

 

[Tinker Bell]

Where does the 99.98% figure come from? I have been in contact with a handful of people on this forum. I have also been reading people's posts (from their post in the introduction section to their posts a couple of months later). After I got a secondary acoustic trauma (from a phone = something a healthy person would not even notice), I began paying closer attention to reports of secondary traumas. This limited sample gives me the impression that the majority (75% or more?) end up with preventable secondary injuries.

Not all of these injuries result in permanent spikes, but we don't know how detrimental a spike lasting days (if what I have after that phone incident is a temporary spike, it is about to last longer than a month) is to your recovery. In other words, it is possible that all of the people whose T became permanent could have avoided it by protecting their ears. The causes of these "temporary spikes" might also make the difference between recovery after 4-12 months and a lifelong T.

I believe I read somewhere that only one third of smokers experience any negative effect on their health. My guess is that the rate is a lot higher for T sufferers who choose to not protect their ears in the early, vulnerable days.

Your data is anecdotal stories coming from this site, right? A site where people typically seek support because they're having anxiety about tinnitus.

I personally know people with tinnitus who never even considered protecting their ears early on. A couple even operated heavy machinery. No long term spikes. All fully habituated. One actually had it completely go away, and he worked in road construction.

But overall the actual measurable statistics say tinnitus gets better over time. Think of the overwhelming number of people who have tinnitus but never visit this site. Their doctors have likely told them not to overprotect their ears (since that's the current recommendation). If this recommendation was wrong, then statistically we would we the data trending the opposite direction.

 

[Alue]

I don't believe any healing is possible past hours/days after the damage was done. I think it's all down to neuroplasticity... Our brain learns the sound is so unimportant that it is ignored more and more and finally disappears.

Have you noticed Bill that no success story goes like "I was sitting in silence and it suddenly went away"?

Would you agree that those stories are *always* about someone who did many 'things', never payed any attention to it and eventually they stopped hearing it?

I agree, but that doesn't bode well for those of us with loud tinnitus that cannot be masked. Especially those with hyperacusis on top of it.

 

[Rubenslash]

Where does the 99.98% figure come from? I have been in contact with a handful of people on this forum. I have also been reading people's posts (from their post in the introduction section to their posts a couple of months later). After I got a secondary acoustic trauma (from a phone = something a healthy person would not even notice), I began paying closer attention to reports of secondary traumas. This limited sample gives me the impression that the majority (75% or more?) end up with preventable secondary injuries.

Not all of these injuries result in permanent spikes, but we don't know how detrimental a spike lasting days (if what I have after that phone incident is a temporary spike, it is about to last longer than a month) is to your recovery. In other words, it is possible that all of the people whose T became permanent could have avoided it by protecting their ears. The causes of these "temporary spikes" might also make the difference between recovery after 4-12 months and a lifelong T.

I believe I read somewhere that only one third of smokers experience any negative effect on their health. My guess is that the rate is a lot higher for T sufferers who choose to not protect their ears in the early, vulnerable days.

You consider this forum to be representative for the whole tinnitus population? Come on, you know better.... As mentioned, many people with T don't even protect their ears at all and never thought about protecting their ears. Not saying that this is a good approach (it's not at all), but many of them don't have negative effects from it.. As I said before, it took me about 7 night clubs before my T got worse (And I have a lot of HL due to meds so my T was perhaps even more prone to get worse compared to the average sufferer).

When people mention to an audiologist or someone else that they are active on a tinnitus forum, the recommendation is usually to stop reading the forum. Although I do not necessarily agree with that, in your cause it could have been useful as you are clearly suffering from anxiety fuelled by this forum.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Your data is anecdotal stories coming from this site, right? A site where people typically seek support because they're having anxiety about tinnitus.

You consider this forum to be representative for the whole tinnitus population?

My sample are people who initially found T to be bothersome. My sample (people on this forum) is more relevant to the readers of this forum than a sample based on the general population.

When I first get to know about these people (or read their first posts), it is Before their trauma. So there is no self-selection.

But overall the actual measurable statistics say tinnitus gets better over time.

many of them don't have negative effects from it..

We will never know whether their T would have been even quieter, had their behaviour been different.

 

[Zinnia]

I without a doubt wish I had been more careful with exposing myself to noises which some would consider safe..... (even wearing earplugs.) I'm paying for it now with increases in my volume and the tones of the T. It makes sense and pays off to be cautious with T and not experiment with a damaged ear(s) Wish I had been smarter.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I without a doubt wish I had been more careful with exposing myself to noises which some would consider safe..... (even wearing earplugs.) I'm paying for it now with increases in my volume and the tones of the T. It makes sense and pays off to be cautious with T and not experiment with a damaged ear(s) Wish I had been smarter.

At least in the early days I think we need to be extra cautious...

I plan to cautiously begin being exposed to louder and louder sounds after a year or two.

I hope that after a month or two following your last trauma, you will begin noticing significant improvements, @Zinnia.

 

[Zinnia]

At least in the early days I think we need to be extra cautious...

I plan to cautiously begin being exposed to louder and louder sounds after a year or two.

I hope that after a month or two following your last trauma, you will begin noticing significant improvements, @Zinnia.

I think you are so right, and I'm doing my best to stay away from noise. There's so much I don't do now and that I'm missing out on but I know it's too freakin risky... just want so badly to see an improvement. I think i could have habituated to it before and hope it's still possible now.

I hope you see improvement too. Time will hopefully bring relief.

 

[CaRd]

I did myself a bad favor going to a loud club without protection two months after my T came. nd i regret it. It did change in the past month or so, but it is still very unpleasant and sometimes preventing me from sleep, because it added new sounds, one of which is making my head explode when i hit the pillow. But i am not over-protecting even now. I do wear my Pluggerz around and use them if going to a loud place. But i still enjoy some events without it. Like going to the local board-games and having fun with friends. It is louder at times, but not dangerously so. Overprotecting only sharpens my senses and things get bad.

But i do agree on one thing - frequency does matter. Last funny thing that happened to me was last night, after going on 30km. run with my cycle. I went to the sea garden(i live near the sea) and some friends were sitting and drinking beers in the dark. They had one of those things that drive the mosquitoes away with low frequency sounds. It actualy doesn't work. On the mosquitos that is. It DID work on me though! I started hearing this frequensy so loud and clear in my head, that i was about to have a headache. So one of my friends, which was cycling with me said "Guys, we should go. It appears that Zhivko is on the mosquito frequency!". Now ... it was not pleasant, but i did lough a lot. I hear things that i would normaly not notice. Like some sounds from the TV. I actualy don't watch TV for more than 12 years, but now it is imposible even if i want to. Atleast with some tv-s, couse from others i don't pick those noises. I guess it depends on the speaker also.

 

[Mario martz]

I could go on and on and on, but you get the idea.

Innocent things can cause huge spikes, even when you wear hearing protection.

Our ears have been compromised. We need to act accordingly...

Hey Bill Bauer, i totally agree with you.
but also time and "experience" have lead me to understand that spikes are also random and... it can spike at different factors like for example in my case...
i can go to an event that is around 95db (with ear plugs) and it would be totally safe.
or like the other day that i had an incident with a 120db alarm and went off...
it didnt spike my tinnitus (thank you jesus)

but a small amount of soy could sky rocket my tinnitus in a matter of minutes.
go figure...

(all i know is that my tinnitus doesnt come from acustic trauma, but i still need to protect those ears!!)

 

[CaRd]

Yep. I also did not get spikes after going to loud places. I am even not completely sure if that wad the cause of my secondary noises, because right then there were two more facotrs - i smoked a lot and was reducing my meds that supress the central nervous system. I do notice that as soon as i light a cigarette, T gets into the bad phase. So quitting is my next thing on the list.

 

[maltese]

Is it the case that certain frequencies are more damaging than other frequencies played at the same volume? I think it was a shock to his ears, and this shock depends on the volume (and possibly on the frequency) - so we don't know the exact cause of his spike.

Yes. Higher frequency = higher wave energy

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I without a doubt wish I had been more careful with exposing myself to noises which some would consider safe..... (even wearing earplugs.) I'm paying for it now with increases in my volume and the tones of the T. It makes sense and pays off to be cautious with T and not experiment with a damaged ear(s) Wish I had been smarter.

You've had t for 3 months. It gets worse before it gets better.

 

[Zenyatta]

You've had t for 3 months. It gets worse before it gets better.

Just curious - what do you base that on? I slowly started spiking and gained hyperacusis this April and it only seems to be getting worse and worse... not better at all. :\

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Just curious - what do you base that on? I slowly started spiking and gained hyperacusis this April and it only seems to be getting worse and worse... not better at all. :\

from personal experience.

I don't really subscribe to the TRT sound therapy treatment. I do very much believe in the limbic system response though. In the first few months the anxiety just gets worse and worse b/c you're "not getting bettter" and you know inside that your chances of a "normal" life are fading - spiking the limbic response.

But at a certain point, you start to make peace - and then the limbic response starts to diminish.

Tinnitus has a mind of its own seemingly, and in the beginning its pretty scary. It levels out in a lot of ways though for most people.

Don't trust everything you read here. I've already seem 2-3 influxes of new accounts since I started, and watched how the tone changes with most that post here over time. Most posts come from a place of despair that doesn't last. @Steve has pointed this out COUNTLESS times.

 

[Casper]

You've had t for 3 months. It gets worse before it gets better.

Hey @Tom Cnyc, could you please expand on this? I've seen this mentioned once or twice by other members too. I've had T for almost six months now. I was seeing good improvement a few weeks ago, but recently it's been getting steadily more bothersome. I don't know if this is a normal part of the journey or if I need to make some changes.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Hey @Tom Cnyc, could you please expand on this? I've seen this mentioned once or twice by other members too. I've had T for almost six months now. I was seeing good improvement a few weeks ago, but recently it's been getting steadily more bothersome. I don't know if this is a normal part of the journey or if I need to make some changes.

There aren't really any changes you can make. I do partake in a few alternative treatments. Vitamins mainly. If its helping I have no idea. I can say things have improved for me though. Healing is NOT linear at all. I went from a 10 to a 2 to a 9 to a 3 to an 8 to a 1, etc etc the whole time I've had this.

Nearly 14 months out I'd say my average level went from a 7-8 (where in a room that was easily 90 db I could clearly hear my tinnitus) to a 2-3 (where often I dont even notice it if im busy). It tends to be worst at work. May have to do with lots of computer fans running. May just be where I obsess over it.

I protect my ears when its loud. On the train. Loud bars. I consider steady 90db to be the threshold for loud.

I hope that in 2 years I'm able to type a story about how my prudence has earned me a life free of intrusive tinnitus. It's worth nothing I had non intrusive tinnitus for YEARS and didnt even realize that it was a hearing loss issue. Seashells over the ears at night type of thing. If I got back to that I'd consider myself 100% cured. It was totally fine.

BTW my "prudence" includes a real life. I dont skip pubs. I do still produce music. I have played with drummers, and I played a gig last weekend.

 

[Zenyatta]

I don't really subscribe to the TRT sound therapy treatment. I do very much believe in the limbic system response though. In the first few months the anxiety just gets worse and worse b/c you're "not getting bettter" and you know inside that your chances of a "normal" life are fading - spiking the limbic response.

But at a certain point, you start to make peace - and then the limbic response starts to diminish.

Tinnitus has a mind of its own seemingly, and in the beginning its pretty scary. It levels out in a lot of ways though for most people.

Interesting. I've had T for many years now and I've never had it go up like this. Unfortunately I seem to be gaining new tones when exposed to sound (if I try to use public transport, it spikes and I get new tones that don't go away). I'm not sure what to think about that. I've actually had decent levels of habituation going on in these last few months but every time, a new sound invariably came around and ruined all my progress. I honestly don't know what to think at this point.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the topic, I just wish my tinnitus was of the standard, static variety like it used to be... right now I have absolutely no idea where the progression will stop and it's terrifying.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Interesting. I've had T for many years now and I've never had it go up like this. Unfortunately I seem to be gaining new tones when exposed to sound (if I try to use public transport, it spikes and I get new tones that don't go away). I'm not sure what to think about that. I've actually had decent levels of habituation going on in these last few months but every time, a new sound invariably came around and ruined all my progress. I honestly don't know what to think at this point.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the topic, I just wish my tinnitus was of the standard, static variety like it used to be... right now I have absolutely no idea where the progression will stop and it's terrifying.

I wear earplugs on the train. So do the operators if you look closely. Really everyone should. Read up on @I who love music post "Mega T". You may be able to get back to your garden variety T. That's what I'm hoping for. The tinnitus I never realized I had until it was rather bad.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I dont skip pubs.

Could the fact above explain "to a 9" part below?

I went from a 10 to a 2 to a 9

 

[Casper]

Thanks for your reply, @Tom Cnyc.

Healing is NOT linear at all. I went from a 10 to a 2 to a 9 to a 3 to an 8 to a 1, etc etc the whole time I've had this.

That's encouraging I suppose, I'm currently going through a louder period after two weeks of relative silence. Did these phases all last roughly the same time?

Nearly 14 months out I'd say my average level went from a 7-8 (where in a room that was easily 90 db I could clearly hear my tinnitus) to a 2-3 (where often I dont even notice it if im busy).

That is seriously loud. I'm glad you were able to recover to such an extent. Mine has never been anywhere near that loud.

I protect my ears when its loud. On the train. Loud bars. I consider steady 90db to be the threshold for loud.

BTW my "prudence" includes a real life. I dont skip pubs. I do still produce music. I have played with drummers, and I played a gig last weekend.

When you say "train", are you referring to the NYC subway or the commuter trains? I've found the Amtrak to be comfortable (I just plug my ears with my fingers in tunnels and when other trains pass), but I've been avoiding the subway since my acoustic trauma.

I've been avoiding anything over 80dB, to be honest. I don't know when I'll be ready to go out to pubs again, maybe when it's been a year.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Could the fact above explain "to a 9" part below?

No. At that stage I did skip pubs. It didn't help. In fact I skipped everything except my living room and my shrinks office and wore earplugs 8 hours a day even in a dead silent office.

I started to improve a solid 4 months after I began living life again. By improve I mean get to a point where I felt comfortable making plans again.

 

[Zenyatta]

I wear earplugs on the train. So do the operators if you look closely. Really everyone should. Read up on @I who love music post "Mega T". You may be able to get back to your garden variety T. That's what I'm hoping for. The tinnitus I never realized I had until it was rather bad.

Yeah, I use earplugs + earmuffs on the train/subway. Still makes me spike like whoa

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Thanks for your reply, @Tom Cnyc.



That's encouraging I suppose, I'm currently going through a louder period after two weeks of relative silence. Did these phases all last roughly the same time?



That is seriously loud. I'm glad you were able to recover to such an extent. Mine has never been anywhere near that loud.



When you say "train", are you referring to the NYC subway or the commuter trains? I've found the Amtrak to be comfortable (I just plug my ears with my fingers in tunnels and when other trains pass), but I've been avoiding the subway since my acoustic trauma.

I've been avoiding anything over 80dB, to be honest. I don't know when I'll be ready to go out to pubs again, maybe when it's been a year.

- These phases lasted anywhere between days and weeks. I still get some very loud days. Yesterday was one! But I dont react the same way anymore. I certainly hate it, but I dont get anxious. Sleep like a baby.

Yes I mean the NYC subway. But I've grown to just love earplugs in transit in general. It just turns down the noise in my life I'd rather not listen to. I find it relaxing. If my tinnitus totally went away I'd still do it. I wear em sometimes in the office when people get chatty and I need to work.

80db is impossible for me to avoid. It's not as loud as you'd think. Your TV probably registers at high 70s.

 

[Casper]

- These phases lasted anywhere between days and weeks. I still get some very loud days. Yesterday was one! But I dont react the same way anymore. I certainly hate it, but I dont get anxious. Sleep like a baby.

I'm trying to approach it the same way. It's occasionally grown louder to similar levels in the past, but it always quietened down in a few days. Now it's been growing louder for almost two weeks. I just hope it stops and settles down again.

I started to improve a solid 4 months after I began living life again. By improve I mean get to a point where I felt comfortable making plans again.

How did you know when it was safe for you to start going out again? How much improvement had you seen up to this point?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I'm trying to approach it the same way. It's occasionally grown louder to similar levels in the past, but it always quietened down in a few days. Now it's been growing louder for almost two weeks. I just hope it stops and settles down again.



How did you know when it was safe for you to start going out again? How much improvement had you seen up to this point?

I honestly don't know what is safe and what isn't. I'm 100% sure that hiding from life is the same as dying though.

 

[Casper]

I honestly don't know what is safe and what isn't. I'm 100% sure that hiding from life is the same as dying though.

I guess I didn't phrase that correctly. What I meant was, when did you go from

I skipped everything except my living room and my shrinks office and wore earplugs 8 hours a day even in a dead silent office.

to

I started to improve a solid 4 months after I began living life again.

I guess my question should have been, when and how did you decide to begin living life again?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I guess my question should have been, when and how did you decide to begin living life again?

That's impossible to say. I dont have my old life back - but I'm working towards it. I guess when I look back I'd say I make the decision time and time again. It's a decision we all have to make every day.