Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

[Codaz]

codaz,mr hartman ,hi, i take your cynicism wholehartedly.Ill give you an example .Last year I saw this guy.

http://www.robingraytmd.co.uk/ read his bio,yet this guy was dismissed by the dentist I saw today Last year
Robin grey looked at my MRI and diagnosis by the radiologist and said he was wrong its not that bad and as an expert witness he has gone against the radiologist in court.

Yet the guy I saw today said the radiologist is one of the best in the world whose advice is sought from all over the world. The NTI covers the front two teeth so the back never touches ,he said the ordinary splints make bruxism worse and I realise that from experience,So the trigeminal nerve and muscles get a chance to relax,

The MRI didnt cause any ear issues just wear big plugs!!!


You spend your hundreds and thousands and all you are is piggy in the middle.That report says I have stage 4 wilkes , 5 being the worse,

Unfortunately I will be unable to travel to the UK (Robin Gray) but definately I'm going to talk to the dental surgeon about this NTI-TSS, since the facial pain is awfull. The NTI-TSS is not quite common in The Netherlands, but I found one company that sells them. And also a patient flyer.

Did you try carbamazepine / tegretol Carlover? My Dental surgeon thinks about it. Start in low dosage, but it has hyperacusis in the manual so I'm hesistant.

To see if I have trigemenal neuralgia I'd have to do an MRI. And I refused. Which plugs did you use?

 

[applewine]

codaz,mr hartman ,hi, i take your cynicism wholehartedly.Ill give you an example .Last year I saw this guy.

http://www.robingraytmd.co.uk/ read his bio,yet this guy was dismissed by the dentist I saw today Last year
Robin grey looked at my MRI and diagnosis by the radiologist and said he was wrong its not that bad and as an expert witness he has gone against the radiologist in court.

Yet the guy I saw today said the radiologist is one of the best in the world whose advice is sought from all over the world. The NTI covers the front two teeth so the back never touches ,he said the ordinary splints make bruxism worse and I realise that from experience,So the trigeminal nerve and muscles get a chance to relax,

The MRI didnt cause any ear issues just wear big plugs!!!


You spend your hundreds and thousands and all you are is piggy in the middle.That report says I have stage 4 wilkes , 5 being the worse,

I was told much of the same thing by a "top" TMJ guy of the east coast. My MRI was also evaluated by a "top" radiologist that works for the NIH. The dentist tried to tell me my discs were dislocated or something.

I went to a reputable orofacial specialist and he evaluated me and looked at my MRI and said I was fine. He said it was probably caused by trigger points in my body below the jaw.

I remember you and from what I remember you don't have muscular issues I thought. If you did then this is the person in the UK who practices the same kind of myofascial release stuff that I'm trying. http://www.paincareclinic.co.uk Amanda Oswald . I don't know how experienced / skilled she is, but she is listed as advanced at the website: http://mfrtherapists.com/listings/therapist/?ID=228

 

[Codaz]

I'm definately doing alternative treatments. Osteopathy is seen as alternative treatment, but I think of going to him.
Every 3% improvement is great. Even placebo relief = relief.

 

[rtwombly]

I'm going to share something else I found in the hopes it helps somebody who is on a similar journey, but understand this is new to me and I haven't had any face-to-face time with the dentist yet. Here in the states there's a school for advanced dentistry called the Dawson Academy. You can look up Dr. Peter Dawson on YouTube to get an idea for what he's about. This talk particularly was encouraging to me: . He doesn't believe TMJ pain is caused by stress or other psychological factors, he believes it's from dental factors and that it's a good dentist's job to deal with it.

I'm communicating with dentist on the faculty and hope to get to see him soon. He uses some of the same diagnostic techniques as Dr. Yiannios, whom I linked before (and is much closer to me). I don't know about the financial side yet, but I have high hopes that I can at least straighten out my bite so that I won't re-injure myself if and when the right medication comes along.

 

[111]

posted this on the other thread, but thought this might be useful on this thread

Activation of voltage-gated KCNQ/Kv7 channels by anticonvulsant retigabine attenuates mechanical allodynia of inflammatory temporomandibular joint in rats

http://www.molecularpain.com/content/6/1/49

 

[carlover]

hello applewine ,re amanda ,ive seen her in London,didnt touch it ,but to be fair I think sometimes you have to go to somene like that for months and I had a gut feeling it wouldnt work,

I actually believe this new dentist,I do believe my lower jaw is too far back,ill see how the NTI splint goes for 3 months and reassess.

tr MRI plugs ,just theres ,make sure you put them in

 

[Codaz]

@carlover

I have seen an article that discusses the use of NTI-TSS versus normal occlusional splints.
Several dental surgeons don't think that NTI-TSS has any benefits over normal splints.

But yeah, for every scienfic paper is one against.

 

[applewine]

@carlover I think NTI's are supposed to be pretty safe. I think they are the only thing that is FDA approved. It may not be the kind that can have any permanent changes, but I'm not sure. What I don't understand is if you really have muscles symptoms or any external symptoms to your ears. I have tons of stuff going on with my face, neck, back, head, lower back etc.

I remember you talked to a TMJ doctor before I think, the same one I did in NJ? That may have been another person, because you are in England. However if you don't have stuff going on with pain sensations, numbness tingling etc in your face then I think any muscle issues may not be a problem. It could be in some cases, but normally the T would be the last thing to develop I would think, like in my case. I still don't know for sure if my T is just the result of my other problems or not though.

The jaw forward thing I think is wrong. I've been to TMJ doctors who wanted to do that to me. It makes much more sense to try muscle stuff first if you can find a therapist because that is not permanent.

 

[carlover]

applewine hi again,I live in London you have another person in your thoughts.

my issue is this ,I grind my teeth at night very badly,biting through a hard materialed bite plate once,the neuro muscular dentist didnt believe me but I did .So this grinding puts so much pressure on your tmj ,surrounding musles the trigem nerve that it can cause horrible feelings of pressure in the ears.

The dentist I saw .basically spends his life doing TMJ work ,he examined me and said because i have very small teeth it has allowed the lower jaw to go back into the ear area causing Tinnitus stuffiness and all sorts.I have a gut feeling he is right.

As for the NTI he had different ones there and used the one he felt is appropiate for me worked on it to get it right .Lot of myths about this splint which i mentioned he said it was nonsense

http://www.ppdentistry.com/dental-clinical-articles/article/nti-tss

So last night was intersting ,I was tapping on my front teeth which woke me up and I stopped (never wake up normally while grinding and clenching just partner listening to it ,teeth on edge lol) but no clenching on the back and side teeth which causes the problems.He said there is a brain connection and when you tap the front teeth the brain thinks what is happening and stopos it,thats the theory.If you had implants on the front teeth he said you could not get the brain connection and would be just a preventive instead of a piece of kit to actually eventually stop you clenching

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine

Yesterday I was doing some carpentry and I paid very close attention towards not elevating my shoulders (which I always do when Im stressed out or sitting in front of my computer). Anyways, I was able to relax my shoulders (for once) and when I came home I noticed that my shoulders hurt pretty bad, and I found it kinda ironic as they were relaxed for once.

I attached an image of where I got this stinging pain afterwards:

When looking back, I remember that I had dry needling done in two of those spots each side (the two closest to the shoulder joint) and they seemed to be directly related to the pain and my T when the needle penetrated.

Also, the physio at that time told me I had some serious lumps going on there..

Im very inclined at having those lumps injected with procaine, but I would appreciate your openion on this as you seem to have some valuable knowledge about this stuff

I also remember a video @Sound Wave shared some time ago where an ENT injected her patient with local anesthetic (I think lidocaine) in one of those spots (at least close to one of them) and her T went away.

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman I appreciate your interest in my opinion. I'm not sure I know or have any more knowledge, but I could think about it. I just looked into the drug options. I have the trigger point manuals which describe the trigger point injections. These are serious and expensive medical text books. I could maybe contribute more to that topic, but I'm not sure what I may know or be able to find out at the moment.

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman I went to the new PT today. She seemed nice and didn't mention as much mystical nonsense as the other once. She did say some things which I couldn't substantiate like releasing histamine and "liver detox" and stuff like that which I connect with nonsense most of the time.

Unfortunately it was mostly a let down because I've been trying to get treatment for so many years. She spent the appointment doing evaluations of posture and taking pictures and other stuff. She said she doesn't do treatment on the first appointment. I had to drive for an hour and a half both ways in traffic to get there and take off of work so this is very frustrating. There are also no open appointments for months at their practice which has two people that work out of the owner's add-on building next to his house. She also seemed to be into cransiosacral stuff and cerebral spinal fluid, which is also suspect.

I may give a massage therapist who is rated expert near me. I think he will do treatment the first visit and is close. He also lists he does craniosacral, which I think is nonsense, but I don't want that from him.

My orofacial specialist said if i don't want medication that he recommended cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm not sure if that is his way of saying that is a way to cope with the lack of a cure, or if he is suggesting that bad thoughts are causing my problems.

The PT I saw also asked me if I liked my job and stuff like that and didn't treat me. That is the same thing another PT did. He just spent the whole visit asking if I liked my job and my relationships and stuff like that. That is really frustrating. A lot also talk about desks and monitor brightness and stuff like that. I've already fixed all that and I'm the only one who has this problem out of many people with the same desks and everything.

 

[Sound Wave]

Btw, have you all tried muscle relaxant drugs? I tried them (Sirdalud 2mg) once after seing a jaw specialist dentist/surgeon for bruxism and I do remember having a lower T right after those drugs. Worth a shot for those with muscle issues.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@Mr. Cartman I went to the new PT today. She seemed nice and didn't mention as much mystical nonsense as the other once. She did say some things which I couldn't substantiate like releasing histamine and "liver detox" and stuff like that which I connect with nonsense most of the time.

Unfortunately it was mostly a let down because I've been trying to get treatment for so many years. She spent the appointment doing evaluations of posture and taking pictures and other stuff. She said she doesn't do treatment on the first appointment. I had to drive for an hour and a half both ways in traffic to get there and take off of work so this is very frustrating. There are also no open appointments for months at their practice which has two people that work out of the owner's add-on building next to his house. She also seemed to be into cransiosacral stuff and cerebral spinal fluid, which is also suspect.

I may give a massage therapist who is rated expert near me. I think he will do treatment the first visit and is close. He also lists he does craniosacral, which I think is nonsense, but I don't want that from him.

My orofacial specialist said if i don't want medication that he recommended cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm not sure if that is his way of saying that is a way to cope with the lack of a cure, or if he is suggesting that bad thoughts are causing my problems.

The PT I saw also asked me if I liked my job and stuff like that and didn't treat me. That is the same thing another PT did. He just spent the whole visit asking if I liked my job and my relationships and stuff like that. That is really frustrating. A lot also talk about desks and monitor brightness and stuff like that. I've already fixed all that and I'm the only one who has this problem out of many people with the same desks and everything.

I dont understand why the PTs you see just dont seem to be willing to at least try out manual therapy the old fashion way.. Like loosening up and working on the muscles. It seems like that kind of therapy is more common in my area though, as pretty much everyone does that..

I do believe that monitor brightness, posture and such might play a role though. But I have found that theres something that simply isnt healthy regarding computer work. As I stated somewhere above, I quit my job as a programmer (even though I love it, it was my passion).

When I do carpentry and more physical work my muscles seems to loosen up, tinnitus goes away 100% and a lot of the facial pain and stuff also goes away (pretty much everything). Until someone has been able to figure out a cause and a cure for this, Im not going to continue computer related work as it seems to be a killer for me.

I havent decided if I want to try out the procaine injections yet though.. I have an appointment scheduled up today with someone that does it, and I have the opportunity to have it done today, but Ill have to think about it.. I dont want it to become worse, thats for sure..

Also, Ive always lived a pretty healthy life besides the computer work.. I have been working out pretty much every day since childhood, eating healthy food etc. But ever since starting full time++ computer work, I feel that my health just havent been quite the same. Im not sure if its related to eye strain, jaw, neck or back or just sitting still but theres something going on for sure.

Maybe Ill go back to construction work.. As soon as I start programming or spend time in front of my computer it literally feels like my health is deteriorating. Tinnitus and facial pain acts up and I also get some kind of tension building up all over my head which hurts pretty bad. I cant continue like this.

I might give the PT that treats the lady I was talking about (which have the same stuff as us, and also happens to work in front of a computer every day) a try.

Im pretty much done with programming and computer work in general.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

Btw, have you all tried muscle relaxant drugs? I tried them (Sirdalud 2mg) once after seing a jaw specialist dentist/surgeon for bruxism and I do remember having a lower T right after those drugs. Worth a shot for those with muscle issues.

Thats a good tip though.. Ive tried muscle relaxants and they seem to work, at least a littlebit.. Which also makes me believe it might be muscle related.

Do you grind your teeth as well?

 

[Nick the Swede]

I am a true grinder myself and i really do notice how much my T is affected the mornings when my jaw is bad. Atm it pulls slightly to the right when i open up. My dentist prescribed me Chlorzoxanzone but that seems do do just nothing. Shall you go for the Z-drugs in short term use when it comes to muscle relaxants?

@Sound Wave , i will listen with my jaw surgeon next week regarding Sirdalud, don´t seem to be a common drug in sweden

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine

I talked to the doctor which performs injections today. He also confirmed that my levator scapulae was super tensed and suggested to slightly paralyze it first by using a short acting local anesthetic.. As he is a good friend of mine and doesnt charge anything for having it done, Im confident that he doesnt say this just to make me spend money on his treatments.

Im pretty much free to have any part of my muscles and/or triggerpoints injected, but I guess I have to take it bit by bit to see if this actually could solve the problem. He suggested the points I talked about above and levator scapulae as a start to see if it might have any effect. But he said that the deep muscles in my neck were very tensed and hard.

If you have some knowledge about this or something you would like to add, please do so Im very inclined at having it done.

Im also considering one of those NTI bite plates @carlover is talking about for the teeth grinding during night.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

I am a true grinder myself and i really do notice how much my T is affected the mornings when my jaw is bad. Atm it pulls slightly to the right when i open up. My dentist prescribed me Chlorzoxanzone but that seems do do just nothing. Shall you go for the Z-drugs in short term use?

@Sound Wave , i will listen with my jaw surgeon next week regarding Sirdalud, don´t seem to be a common drug in sweden

It seems like teeth grinding and neck issues is a very common factor among us in this thread.. I have a hard time to believe its just a coincidence..

 

[Nick the Swede]

Stress at the T onset put my jaw in a bad Place, pretty hard habit to break as well.

 

[Sound Wave]

Yes I do grind. I wear a splint at nights. Funny thing - just before my T started, I had a long pause in using it...

 

[applewine]

I'm just revisiting this old TMJ muscle list from a trigger point teacher. He says these are the muscles that cause TMJ problems. upper trapezius, splenius capitis, and cervicis, scalenes, and paraspinal muscles
http://www.istop.org/tmj.html

"
This common condition is part of a generalized musculoskeletal pain disorder, typically associated with anxiety and stress. All stress muscles must be examined and treated if necessary. TMJ is often treated by dentists with night splints - these help, but there is rarely necessity for major dental procedures such as changing the bite, lengthening the teeth or caps. TMJ is not fundamentally a dental condition).

Treatment is to the jaw and neck, especially the upper trapezius, splenius capitis, and cervicis, scalenes, and paraspinal muscles. But , measure mouth opneing by number of fingers that can be inserted between incisors.
"
He says before treating the jaw test for mouth opening. I think he means if the mouth opens fine you don't even need to treat the jaw muscles, just go further down (up in the chain) because that is causing the pain in the mouth muscles. Go to the neck and back.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

I'm just revisiting this old TMJ muscle list from a trigger point teacher. He says these are the muscles that cause TMJ problems. upper trapezius, splenius capitis, and cervicis, scalenes, and paraspinal muscles
http://www.istop.org/tmj.html

"
This common condition is part of a generalized musculoskeletal pain disorder, typically associated with anxiety and stress. All stress muscles must be examined and treated if necessary. TMJ is often treated by dentists with night splints - these help, but there is rarely necessity for major dental procedures such as changing the bite, lengthening the teeth or caps. TMJ is not fundamentally a dental condition).

Treatment is to the jaw and neck, especially the upper trapezius, splenius capitis, and cervicis, scalenes, and paraspinal muscles. But , measure mouth opneing by number of fingers that can be inserted between incisors.
"
He says before treating the jaw test for mouth opening. I think he means if the mouth opens fine you don't even need to treat the jaw muscles, just go further down (up in the chain) because that is causing the pain in the mouth muscles. Go to the neck and back.

Yeah, Ive been suspecting this for a long time with myself.. That TMJ is not the root problem, but rather a neck problem that manifests itself in the jaw.

The muscles you are talking about makes perfect sense.. From my understanding, chewing makes the neck muscles relax..

 

[Mr. Cartman]

Yes I do grind. I wear a splint at nights. Funny thing - just before my T started, I had a long pause in using it...

 

[applewine]

To sum up what I have discovered as far as manual trigger point therapy training and practitioners:

There are two main manual trigger therapy lines, the Myopain seminars and the John F. Barnes seminars. If you want to find a good therapist you may want to find people who are rated expert by John F. Barnes or Master according to an instructor by the Myopain seminars. http://www.myopainseminars.com/ https://www.myofascialrelease.com/

I suggest the manual stuff and not the needle treatments. I've tried the needle treatments and I believe them to be too limited in what they can access among other problems.

John F. Barnes is the CEO of the company that does the seminars with his name and does not practice anymore. He does however have a practice he owns in Pensylvania as well as a practice that I think his son is at out west in Colorado. He also has a website you can pay to list yourself if you have undergone his seminars. It rates four different levels ending in expert. If you have big problems I suggest expert.

These are the treatments centers that John F. Barnes either owns or watches over: http://www.myofascialrelease.com/treatment/centers/

The instructor for the myopain seminars is Stewart Wild. The structure of the company is different and the John F. Barnes is much more systemic in certification and practitioners.

Stewart Wild has a practice in Needham Massachusetts and lists himself and one other person there as capable of providing master level service. It is a large practice, but only two are rated at that level. Look at Master NMT. http://www.360nmt.com/360nmt.php Stewart wild does not have a website to list people trained by his seminars like John F. Barnes does, nor does he have a universal rating system.

I conclude that a person should either locate a person rated expert by John F. Barnes as listed on his paid listing website, or go to a specialist treatment center run him himself in Pennsylvania, Colorado or California (his twin sons) or go to Stewart Wild or Katie Adams listed as master level in Needham Massachusetts.

In the past I have also used this website for people with the CMTPT certification, but have not been happy with any of the practitioners: http://www.myofascialtherapy.org

There are John F. Barnes expert level practitioners in Canada and Australia and one listed as advanced in the UK.

You could of course call all of the Physical therapists and Massage therapists and ask if they have attended any seminars on myofascial manual trigger point therapy and/or of they provide that service. However you must be careful to find out how much training they have to get a hint of their understanding. I have seen many people who list they practice manual trigger point therapy, but in reality know very little. I did not ask who trained them or how much training they have or how long they have been practicing.

Indicators or poor understanding of trigger points would be things like telling you to put ice on them. This will make trigger points worse. Heat if anything would be used.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

To sum up what I have discovered as far as manual trigger point therapy training and practitioners:

There are two main manual trigger therapy lines, the Myopain seminars and the John F. Barnes seminars. If you want to find a good therapist you may want to find people who are rated expert by John F. Barnes or Master according to an instructor by the Myopain seminars. http://www.myopainseminars.com/ https://www.myofascialrelease.com/

I suggest the manual stuff and not the needle treatments. I've tried the needle treatments and I believe them to be too limited in what they can access among other problems.

John F. Barnes is the CEO of the company that does the seminars with his name and does not practice anymore. He does however have a practice he owns in Pensylvania as well as a practice that I think his son is at out west in Colorado. He also has a website you can pay to list yourself if you have undergone his seminars. It rates four different levels ending in expert. If you have big problems I suggest expert.

These are the treatments centers that John F. Barnes either owns or watches over: http://www.myofascialrelease.com/treatment/centers/

The instructor for the myopain seminars is Stewart Wild. The structure of the company is different and the John F. Barnes is much more systemic in certification and practitioners.

Stewart Wild has a practice in Needham Massachusetts and lists himself and one other person there as capable of providing master level service. It is a large practice, but only two are rated at that level. Look at Master NMT. http://www.360nmt.com/360nmt.php Stewart wild does not have a website to list people trained by his seminars like John F. Barnes does, nor does he have a universal rating system.

I conclude that a person should either locate a person rated expert by John F. Barnes as listed on his paid listing website, or go to a specialist treatment center run him himself in Pennsylvania, Colorado or California (his twin sons) or go to Stewart Wild or Katie Adams listed as master level in Needham Massachusetts.

In the past I have also used this website for people with the CMTPT certification, but have not been happy with any of the practitioners: http://www.myofascialtherapy.org

There are John F. Barnes expert level practitioners in Canada and Australia and one listed as advanced in the UK.

You could of course call all of the Physical therapists and Massage therapists and ask if they have attended any seminars on myofascial manual trigger point therapy and/or of they provide that service. However you must be careful to find out how much training they have to get a hint of their understanding. I have seen many people who list they practice manual trigger point therapy, but in reality know very little. I did not ask who trained them or how much training they have or how long they have been practicing.

Indicators or poor understanding of trigger points would be things like telling you to put ice on them. This will make trigger points worse. Heat if anything would be used.

Thanks for the summary you have provided!

From what I understand regarding ice and heat, if ice depresses symptoms, then that would suggest nerves are involved. If heat depresses symptoms, it would suggest muscular issues without nerves being involved.

Ive read this several times, and it might be something to it..

Are you planning to visit one of the trained people you are talking about above?
Kinda curious if they will be able to provide any new / useful information.. And if they are able to provide any effective treatment..

 

[applewine]

Right now I'm looking at the John. F. Barnes type people. I'm going to go to ones that are rated expert that work at a practice not owned by John F. Barnes or his sons because that practice is further away.

They may not have appointments open for a while. I tried calling a guy listed on the website who really close to me who is a massage therapist license and not a physical therapy license. He has not responded to my email and when I called nobody picked up and the voicemailbox was full so I couldn't leave a message. He practices out of his home it looks like.

There are a few others who are rated expert near me I guess I could try.

If that doesn't work then I'll go to Pennsylvania I guess and try there. If that doesn't work I may switch over to the myopain seminar guy who is in Massachusetts.

Ice is for hematomas http://drwheatgrass.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/hematoma_front_1.gif
;heat is for muscles.

Ice reduces blood flow to an area. Heat increases it. If you have metabolic waste stuck there or want to relax the muscles you want to increase blood flow. That will flush out the area. If you have a hematoma though heat will not flush the area out because the body is telling blood to go in due to a traumatic injury, so it will only increase blood flow. If you have uncontrolled swelling or bleeding then you want ice because that will reduce blood flow.

Even for injuries heat aids in the healing process because increased blood flow speeds recovery. Only when the body overreacts and starts causing damage by too much inflammation or bleeding do you need ice. You have to judge what is too much of a reaction of the body.

Ice can numb things, but that doesn't mean you are doing the right thing from a healing perspective.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

Right now I'm looking at the John. F. Barnes type people. I'm going to go to ones that are rated expert that work at a practice not owned by John F. Barnes or his sons because that practice is further away.

They may not have appointments open for a while. I tried calling a guy listed on the website who really close to me who is a massage therapist license and not a physical therapy license. He has not responded to my email and when I called nobody picked up and the voicemailbox was full so I couldn't leave a message. He practices out of his home it looks like.

There are a few others who are rated expert near me I guess I could try.

If that doesn't work then I'll go to Pennsylvania I guess and try there. If that doesn't work I may switch over to the myopain seminar guy who is in Massachusetts.

Ice is for hematomas http://drwheatgrass.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/hematoma_front_1.gif
;heat is for muscles.

Ice reduces blood flow to an area. Heat increases it. If you have metabolic waste stuck there or want to relax the muscles you want to increase blood flow. That will flush out the area. If you have a hematoma though heat will not flush the area out because the body is telling blood to go in due to a traumatic injury, so it will only increase blood flow. If you have uncontrolled swelling or bleeding then you want ice because that will reduce blood flow.

Even for injuries heat aids in the healing process because increased blood flow speeds recovery. Only when the body overreacts and starts causing damage by too much inflammation or bleeding do you need ice. You have to judge what is too much of a reaction of the body.

Ice can numb things, but that doesn't mean you are doing the right thing from a healing perspective.

Thanks for the information!

Hopefully you will be able to schedule up an appointment with the John. F. Barnes people.. At least it would be interesting to hear their take on this issue.. I dont see anything wrong with people doing practice out of their homes though.. As long as they know their stuff..

Also, I agree with the dry needling stuff.. I dont think it will do much..

 

[applewine]

I should also mention that I had an email correspondence with the orofacial pain specialist dentist and told him about my experience with the physical therapist he referred me to.

He told me that there was no scientific basis for the physical therapy / massage to treat the muscles causing my condition. He said that if I don't want to take the medicine that he recommended he recommends cognitive behavioral therapy and said he could recommend somebody for that.

I asked him what would be the intended purpose of that and he hasn't responded.

 

[Mr. Cartman]

I should also mention that I had an email correspondence with the orofacial pain specialist dentist and told him about my experience with the physical therapist he referred me to.

He told me that there was no scientific basis for the physical therapy / massage to treat the muscles causing my condition. He said that if I don't want to take the medicine that he recommended he recommends cognitive behavioral therapy and said he could recommend somebody for that.

I asked him what would be the intended purpose of that and he hasn't responded.

If I remember correct, the PT you were referred to suggested craniosacral therapy and homeopathy.. I dont think theres a lot of scientific basis for those treatments to help either

Im going for manual physiotherapy in a little while It wont hurt to loosen up some tensed muscles anyways..

 

[Mr. Cartman]

@applewine

I got my levator scapulae and one of my lumps in my shoulder injected with anesthetics today and it definitely had some impact on the stuff going on. It also brought back stinging headaches which I had right before onset and some weird vision stuff.. Like flickering vision.. It all happened left side, and it would make sense as I got the left side injected.

I got a short acting local anesthetic injected which wore off in a couple of hours just to try it out and make sure it didnt aggravate the problem, but I will probably try long acting next time..

My shoulder felt really good as it felt relaxed and semi-paralyzed.

All in all, a very nice experience.. I might have to play around a bit though and try different muscles.. Like trapezius, lateral pterygoid etc..