Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

[Greg Sacramento]

I think if you mention tinnitus as the primary reason they won't see you. Tinnitus is a small fish the pond of chronic pain syndromes.

Oh yes, so true from their perceptive. My tinnitus chronic pain is tinnitus associated.

 

[kelpiemsp]

Oh yes, so true from their perceptive. My tinnitus chronic pain is tinnitus associated.

They are remarkably similar! And very comorbid.

 

[just1morething]

Charlton perhaps had tinnitus?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

What about your Vikings. A 29 - 29 tie. Maybe the field goal kicker needs more practice. I should talk, the Pats lost. Brady needs receivers. Ouch my neck - forward head bending again.

 

[kelpiemsp]

What about your Vikings. A 29 - 29 tie. Maybe the field goal kicker needs more practice. I should talk, the Pats lost. Brady needs receivers. Ouch my neck - forward head bending again.

Ugh it was the worst. I'd love a Vikings V Pats super bowl. Also @Greg Sacramento have you seen this paper? https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150923134105.htm

I've had the feeling tinnitus and chronic pain are more closely linked than we give them credit for.

 

[Fally]

Glad it worked out! I'm assuming when you said you had a locked jaw... that isn't what you meant?? A locked jaw has a hard stop, can open less than a finger width and you can't eat or get food in your mouth...

Oh ok, Mum kept referring to it as a locked jaw since i had trouble opening it for a moment but then could. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[housemzk]

TMJ Orthotic Update: I've been wearing a tmj orthotic everyday for close to 6 months now. Only take it out for brushing of the teeth and apparently near completion of wearing it. My neuromuscular dentist now says I need a "phase 2" treatment of wearing braces to align my jaw or getting veneers to correct the gap between my upper and lower teeth when I bite down. More time and money on fixing something that probably didn't cause my tinnitus. But hey, jaw pain has diminished a bit.

 

[kelpiemsp]

TMJ Orthotic Update: I've been wearing a tmj orthotic everyday for close to 6 months now. Only take it out for brushing of the teeth and apparently near completion of wearing it. My neuromuscular dentist now says I need a "phase 2" treatment of wearing braces to align my jaw or getting veneers to correct the gap between my upper and lower teeth when I bite down. More time and money on fixing something that probably didn't cause my tinnitus. But hey, jaw pain has diminished a bit.

Uggg this is so irresponsible of the dentist. I'm sorry you have to go through that. Glad the TMJ feels better though!

 

[Steve]

I have had a course of TMJ massage recently. It actually did help me but unfortunately I've had a lot of work stress and consequently not slept great so it's hard to quantify.

The treatment started at my upper back as I carry a lot of tension there. Working up around the shoulders and neck and also to the rear of the head with trigger point therapy. The massage around the jaw and some intra oral work.

I noticed a big difference in the tension I carried around the jaw, much less and I felt far more relaxed. I had been getting pain and stress there previously.

One thing that was really interesting for me was that after the first treatment I had a real spike for the rest of the day. It settled after. But it made me realise that I clearly have something there that contributes to the most irritating and intrusive tone I have.

All I have to do now is give up my job so I can sleep and relax to see just how well it can work for me

 

[glynis]

@Steve ,
Think my jaw is past fixing without an operation but not sure about going down that route as not heard about results of surgery.... you felt and heard it ...
love glynis

 

[Steve]

@Steve ,
Think my jaw is past fixing without an operation but not sure about going down that route as not heard about results of surgery.... you felt and heard it ...
love glynis

I did indeed! Your jaw is definitely weird

It may benefit from massage but I wouldn't know, the NHS unfortunately have a "surgery or nothing" treatment approach - at least they did when I went to see about my jaw.

 

[kelpiemsp]

@Steve ,
Think my jaw is past fixing without an operation but not sure about going down that route as not heard about results of surgery.... you felt and heard it ...
love glynis

Glynis, I have no cartilage in my jaw on either side. Confirmed via an MRI. However, I was able to get my Jaw to form pseudo-discs and my TMJ repaired itself over the course of about 6 months. There is always hope!

 

[glynis]

@kelpiemsp ,
I have seen a Maxillofaxial specialist and been advised to have the surgery as this has been going on 37 years .
Due to having Menieres and severe Bilateral tinnitus I don't think I could risk a worse outcome but they have to tell you the risks.
love glynis

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp ,
I have seen a Maxillofaxial specialist and been advised to have the surgery as this has been going on 37 years .
Due to having Menieres and severe Bilateral tinnitus I don't think I could risk a worse outcome but they have to tell you the risks.
love glynis

Absolutely, the US is moving towards banning TMJ surgery, as they are learning that internal derangement isn't correlated with pain and that our bodies regrow pseudo discs eventually! With the exception being if your body is reabsorbing the bone, in the rare cheerleader syndrome. The surgeons I spoke with at Mayo, indicated that a large ethical shift towards TMJ is underway. Glad you aren't getting surgery!

 

[kelpiemsp]

I did indeed! Your jaw is definitely weird

It may benefit from massage but I wouldn't know, the NHS unfortunately have a "surgery or nothing" treatment approach - at least they did when I went to see about my jaw.

This may sound silly but I started listening to www.dawnbuse.com before I sleep and it has helped my TMJ immensely.

 

[Steve]

This may sound silly but I started listening to www.dawnbuse.com before I sleep and it has helped my TMJ immensely.

Relaxation is one of those areas where whatever works for you is the right thing to do.

I do wonder about going to bed stressed and the effect it has on any bruxism I may have. I wake up with tension in the jaw when I am stressed so I probably do have it to a degree, I need to also try relaxing at night.

 

[Candy]

No bruxism but my jaw has been bad since I was 21 and went to Spain for a year (that's a whole different story) but I got well acquainted with the dentist who "realigned my bite". Very unnecessary looking back.

Long story short it's kind of stabilised now and the latest bout of pain (lasting about 6 weeks) was a month before I got tinnitus. It's been better again since (2yrs).

I've been crunching a lot of mints for the last few days, rather than reaching for a cigarette - haven't had one in 19 years but - but I think they're not doing my jaw any favours and possibly contributing to the loudness.

I need the sweets to distract me, especially at work. Will try and stop the habit and wear my mouth guard for a bit as well.

I was recently offered an arthroscopy at Guys hospital London but haven't got back to the consultant yet as she didn't think it would resolve the tinnitus.

My instinct is to leave it as the jaw's not bothering me much currently.
It does deviate to the right and my opening is reduced, unless I manoeuvre but it's not as regularly painful as it used to be so no big deal.

Having read your post @kelpiemsp I think I will leave things well alone!

Not sure I need a jaw massage either as it's only very slightly tender and the last time I had one (8 years ago) it set off the other side too! It wasn't a specialised intra oral one though.

@Jazzer sent me this @Steve. Not sure about the "assume the demeanour of a baby though"

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I posted links that discuss back strain with muscle spasms from improper head bending that leads to the neck then to the ears and jaw where emotional tension then combines with any extension or pressure to the jaw. Any combination of this may cause TMJ and tinnitus. @Candy - Always wishing you the best. I lightly chew on some small grapes to distract me.

Here's another link among hundreds that discusses that.
http://abbottcenter.com/bostonpaintherapy/?p=2225

 

[Jazzer]

@Jazzer sent me this @Steve. Not sure about the "assume the demeanour of a baby though"

Hi Candy - it just means the relaxed 'babylike' loose-jaw setting.
Lips closed - jaws open - soft face - soft mouth.
Babies are the experts - they do it all the time,
when they're not 'bawling!'

Members of the "softmoth - jawhangers club"
never close their teeth - only around food.
Try it - it can't bite you !!

 

[Codaz]

After 2,5 months I'm scheduled to the anasthetics department at the end of this month as my gnathologist and jaw surgeon said that my treatment options are exhausted. Well I can say for the hardcore TMJ patients that my facial pain in the cheeks and side are now ok, but not the temporalis, which gives major tension headaches. I have found that stress is a major factor in this. I went on holiday and my pain reduced a lot and the T also a bit.

From another ENT I got nortriptyline as a backup but I'm quite affraid to try it as it lists T in the manual in the box.
I guess he wouldn't give me that as it might worsen T but who knows.

If the pain drops then there is only the meniere's (hydrops) left ear and that humming T left. I might mask that with a hearing aid. I'm still pursuing options but it's not that easy to get doctor's referrals.

I still cannot stand that every doctor's visit in the hospital takes ages. Waiting list, waiting for your appointment only to see a doc that is an assistant who doesn't know.

For now my neck treatment is ongoing. I'm seeing the neck therapist every week.

 

[kelpiemsp]

After 2,5 months I'm scheduled to the anasthetics department at the end of this month as my gnathologist and jaw surgeon said that my treatment options are exhausted. Well I can say for the hardcore TMJ patients that my facial pain in the cheeks and side are now ok, but not the temporalis, which gives major tension headaches. I have found that stress is a major factor in this. I went on holiday and my pain reduced a lot and the T also a bit.

From another ENT I got nortriptyline as a backup but I'm quite affraid to try it as it lists T in the manual in the box.
I guess he wouldn't give me that as it might worsen T but who knows.

If the pain drops then there is only the meniere's (hydrops) left ear and that humming T left. I might mask that with a hearing aid. I'm still pursuing options but it's not that easy to get doctor's referrals.

I still cannot stand that every doctor's visit in the hospital takes ages. Waiting list, waiting for your appointment only to see a doc that is an assistant who doesn't know.

For now my neck treatment is ongoing. I'm seeing the neck therapist every week.

What is your tmj diagnosis?

 

[Codaz]

What is your tmj diagnosis?

I never got an "official" diagnosis. I just signed up for special TMJ physiotherapy as I went to my dentist and then the ball came rolling. Later on I got "temporomandibular pain" as diagnosis, with absolutely no guarentee as if there was healing possible. TMJ is a very very unknown field, even much less known than tinnitus.

The ony gnathogist I saw who was aware of both T and TMJ was after a very long search. All of the neurologists I have seen don't know what TMJ is.

For the end of october I have a meeting scheduled with the anasthetics team in the hospital, maybe they know something.

And they all think tinnitus is a hearing problem (and thus ENT problem), where it's much wider than that.
If I didn't have the 5 years of TMJ treatment my T was still sky high in my left ear. Now it's 60% quieter.

But most TMJ sufferer's quit after 10-20 treatments saying it doesnt work. Your jaw muscles have been chronicly overcharged, what do you expect, that it fixes itself within a month? Change takes time. And if bruxism is happening then it's a vicious circle. Continuous buildup of tension means more tinnitus instead of less.

But the link between TMJ and very reactive tinnitus (even in low tension moments) is a lot less known. I had moments with tinnitus with absolutely no pain and vice versa. Super high pain but almost absent tinnitus. It's weird how the body works. Most is controlled by the brain, not simply by eating wrong or head position. It's an after effect.
Chronic pain is no A-B relationship said my doc. Stress leads to pain but even in low stress moments you still can have pain.

 

[just1morething]

Neck (cervical spine) pain is a common issue among many people. The cervical spine consists of seven vertebrae that start from the base of your head to the upper area of your shoulders. If the cervical spine is not aligned properly, it could cause many different unwanted symptoms other than just pain. Listed below are the vertebrae in the cervical spine and some organs and conditions that each segment may affect.

C1- One of the most important vertebrae in the body to be aligned properly. This vertebrae alone can cause major conditions that can range from sinus issues and congestion to increased blood pressure and severe migraine headaches. Other conditions are ear infections, and anything involving blood supply to the head.

C2- This vertebrae is also very important, and with it misaligned many people get conditions with sinus infections, hearing issues, and relates to the optic nerve for vision. Also very common issues with C1 and C2 vertebrae is balance and the vestibular system which misalignment can cause vertigo and dizziness.

C3- Commonly affects the trigeminal nerve which can cause trigeminal neuralgia. This is a facial pain that can be along three distributions involving the forehead, cheek, and jaw areas of the face.

C4- Affects mostly the diaphragm. This is important in breathing issues such as asthma and other forms of COPD. There have been cases where chiropractic has also helped the hiccups due to diaphragm spasm.

C5- Has sensory and motor nerves that affect the upper arm such as the muscles of the deltoid as well as the biceps muscle. It also affects the vocal cords and glands in the jaw.

C6- Controls the muscles of the wrist and forearm that can cause false cases of carpal tunnel syndrome. It also is a major contributor to thoracic outlet syndrome causing numbness and tingling in the arms, hands, and fingers.

C7- The lowest cervical vertebrae, and also the controller of the triceps muscle in the back of the arm. This is also involved with cases that deal with numbness and tingling of the hands and fingers. Pain from this nerve being pinched can refer to the shoulder blade in the back as well as the back of the arm causing pins and needles sensation as well as a burning pain in the arm and back.

Overall, joint dysfunction and subluxation (misalignment) of the cervical spine may cause a great variety of conditions, and many that may not seem directly related.

Fortunately, there is a simple and natural way to help with these issues. Chiropractic cervical spine adjustments are a very effective way to treat and even prevent these symptoms and conditions.

 

[Lane]

C1- One of the most important vertebrae in the body to be aligned properly. This vertebrae alone can cause major conditions that can range from sinus issues and congestion to increased blood pressure and severe migraine headaches. Other conditions are ear infections, and anything involving blood supply to the head.

@just1morething, thanks for posting this nice summary. -- C1 is also often referred to as the "atlas". I had a unique atlas "repositioning" done on Saturday, and immediately noticed my Eustachian Tube Dysfunction improved significantly afterwards. I noticed my ear pressure was much more easily able to adapt to the changing pressures when starting and finishing an HBOT session.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething @Lane Posture, muscle getting soreness, where tension spreads to the jaw. Our necks may have many different problems, including compression of facet joints, but it all comes down to getting upper neck tendons and occipital - suboccipital under control first. A weak neck with downward pressure or not having proper support while sitting or sleeping places pressure on the neck and on jaw muscles. Posture control and gentle stretching the neck upwards with shoulders relaxed while breathing in and out. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/suboccipital-nerve

This is a cause physical tinnitus. On left side. https://sites.google.com/site/doctorlevinestinnitussite/home

 

[JaneFromBoston]

Hell... @Codaz, @Kaelon, @applewine - I want to report my experience with all of the above. Especially today, I want to report this because I just spent hours and hours at the Red Sox rally for winning the World Series, I was screaming my head off (and at one point my left ear, the one with the pulsitile tinnitus) popped... And I just got home (riding the public transp both ways) and my tinnitus is the quietest it's been in months.

(To fill in, my pulsitile tinnitus began 16 months ago at the end of my surgery for a left carotid aneurism. I've had the pulsitile through my left ear/side of the head, and the whole head tinnitus.. ) So what's been going on for me RECENTLY?

I started a few months ago with chiropractic. After about one month of that, I added in PT for the "cervicalgia" diagnosis - at my neurologist's suggestion since he felt that 1) if I'm working on the skeleton I need to also work on the muscles. And it also was the casec, @Kaelon, that my neck muscles were also spasming, and this disturbed my sleep tremendously, but I did not want to start on Gabapentin. About one month in... I started with manual trigger point therapy, Stew Wild, somebody who had done research on tinnitus and read up on several researchers, particularly Teachey, who does the dry needling. I see him for one hour, once a week. He does work on the jaw muscles, moving the jaw left/right and getting right in there and relieving all sorts of little muscles that only people like this know how to access. He listens to me report, each week, what I'm experiencing, and decides how to treat me week to week.

The chiro was working on my spine and my muscles, including my ear. The PT was working on my SCMs, occipitals and Traps. My manual trigger point therapist was working on everything! Head, jaw, mouth, inside the mouth, left, right... Really! Everybody gave me something to do at home, something to work on. I have a whole exercise sheet and do everything. It's easy to lay my head on the little blue double-balls that do the scalenes massage, when I'm watching TV or anything else like that.

And YES one of the exercises I was given by my PT was the "Chin Tuck with Over Pressure," which is what I think you're referring to. I do it every day, whenever I can, whether I'm sitting or standing. It helps reduce neck and shoulder muscle strain, and directs oxygen more efficiently to my brain. Also many others such as scapular retraction, pushing the tennis ball against the wall with my scalenes, and many more.

One thing my PT noticed was that I do not do abdominal breathing. This fact also puts pressure on the neck and shoulders. So I started learning abdominal breathing and doing it every chance I had - swimming, walking, riding my bike, even just sitting in a train, like today, to and from the rally.

My chiro asked me to turn my head to both sides, to left and right, when I swim, so I learned to swim this new method. It took me a while, but within a few weeks I was turning my head to the left and then to the right, and adding my abdominal breathing, which began to all be in sync. And there's better balance btwn right and left sides. At first I was very out of breath left/right/left/right, had to stop at the end of every lap, but am now fine.

@applewine - The vagus nerve exercises increase the level of AChE - safely. I began to learn about the vagus nerve with the manual trigger point therapy, esp due to some experience with the P-Stim machine (which I never used, but which I learned about). I realized that my vagus nerve has had issues for years and years, and told my manual trigger point therapist about this. So he was working on this. Then a few days ago I started adding the breathing technique because an active vagus nerve tells your system to calm down. So no need for medications to increase AChE levels.

At any rate, today was a big long and noisy day, lots of loud screaming at the top of my lungs, and the pulsitile tinnitus and tinnitus is the quietest it's been since it began.

There's something to be said for hanging in there.

 

[JaneFromBoston]

@Codaz - I would stay away from Botax injections. We are friends with somebody, a dentist, who does these for people who come in with tinnitus, at the ear, nose and throat clinic where he works at a big very big hospital here in Boston. Even he says how dangerous they are, they can destroy your nerve's ability to function.

 

[Codaz]

@Codaz - I would stay away from Botax injections. We are friends with somebody, a dentist, who does these for people who come in with tinnitus, at the ear, nose and throat clinic where he works at a big very big hospital here in Boston. Even he says how dangerous they are, they can destroy your nerve's ability to function.

It's quite nerve wrecking that even my anesthesiologist didnt seem to know anything about these nerves. He didnt mention botox. He said go either lyrica or nortriptyline / amitriptyline.

Why is there no consensus among these people?

 

[Kappdog]

I've just found this on youtube regarding DTR (Disclusion Time Reduction) therapy for TMD. You guys can look at it if you want (I have no idea if it works or not)

 

[Codaz]

@Mr. Cartman

How are you doing?