MemberThere is no doubt in my mind that there is something regarding strain injury in the SCM area that makes one very susceptible to tinnitus from noise. Weird as it sounds..
Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment
- Thread starter erik
- Start date
There is no doubt in my mind that there is something regarding strain injury in the SCM area that makes one very susceptible to tinnitus from noise. Weird as it sounds..
It seems like you have had a good progress from the onset though.. Maybe you are doing some things right!
@Mr. Cartman
Yes, I hope that I do the right things, but I still think that I started clenching AFTER the T started, but we cannot prove that. And if I'm doing the right things? According to 3 ENT's I should do nothing, rollover and die or don't pay attention to it, as they cannot do anything. Just go home Codaz and live with it. So after some serious money, yes I'm glad there is some improvement. But is it the right thing? I don't know, I'm just a guy that is reading scientific papers, telling that to the doctors and then they laugh, then I'm going further and further until someone wants to try something out, to see if it has an effect. Especially finding someone who was willing to listen to me (also psychologically) is a pain. Psychologists in my area are not known with tinnitus, their CBT was very bad and I stopped going there because it was a waste of time. So yes, there is improvement, but today it moved to my left ear, and I was at a friend's new house and it was nagging me again. I still doubt if I should take the Deanxit....
Yes, I hope that I do the right things, but I still think that I started clenching AFTER the T started, but we cannot prove that. And if I'm doing the right things? According to 3 ENT's I should do nothing, rollover and die or don't pay attention to it, as they cannot do anything. Just go home Codaz and live with it. So after some serious money, yes I'm glad there is some improvement. But is it the right thing? I don't know, I'm just a guy that is reading scientific papers, telling that to the doctors and then they laugh, then I'm going further and further until someone wants to try something out, to see if it has an effect. Especially finding someone who was willing to listen to me (also psychologically) is a pain. Psychologists in my area are not known with tinnitus, their CBT was very bad and I stopped going there because it was a waste of time. So yes, there is improvement, but today it moved to my left ear, and I was at a friend's new house and it was nagging me again. I still doubt if I should take the Deanxit....
Yeah, I can relate to what you say.. Lets hope that it will go away in some time..
I think I will have some heavy injections of long acting anesthetics done today, before I try botox which is next step.
And I had a new MRI done yesterday for some more evaluation of the nerves in my face.
@Codaz
Had both of my levator scapulae, suboccipital muscles and trapezius injected with long acting anesthetics.
My neck feels so relaxed.. It also affected the jaw, as my jaw suddenly feels relaxed as well.. The injection of the suboccipitals were slightly painful though.. And I got dizzy.. I still am.. But its not unpleasant.. More like being slightly drunk..
I might do the lateral pterygoideus and masseter next time..
Ill keep you updated
Had both of my levator scapulae, suboccipital muscles and trapezius injected with long acting anesthetics.
My neck feels so relaxed.. It also affected the jaw, as my jaw suddenly feels relaxed as well.. The injection of the suboccipitals were slightly painful though.. And I got dizzy.. I still am.. But its not unpleasant.. More like being slightly drunk..
I might do the lateral pterygoideus and masseter next time..
Ill keep you updated
The doctor is a friend of mine.. He also does the injections.. I dont think the MRI will show anything though.. Ive had like 7 of them now.. And 3 CTs of jaw, head and neck. Ill probably have MRI done of my shoulders as well..
After the injections, my neck feels really great though.. Tinnitus is also fluctuating like never before, but its still there.
Hi guys,
How are you all doing?
I'm currently doing dry needling therapies in order to see if this might release the tension.
Tomorrow is my first real treatment, last time the psychologist just tried 1 needle in order to check my response to it. He used it in my shoulder and felt a lot of muscle knots in there and I could feel it going all the way up untill the back of my ear.
I felt hope full after that and first days felt a little better. However the last 3 days the pain in my neck and er is intense. Sound is damn loud and feelable through my jaw.
Anyways he's also doing some massage techniques on my jaw. My jaw snaps on my left side when i open it, so there is clearly something not right there.
I was actually feeling better for a while, but the last few days just made me feel miserable. I can cope with a sound, but not with the pain and sound, because the more pain I feel, the louder the sound gets and that results in some kind of hollow feeling in my head which is just awful. Hopefully things will improve a bit after tomorrow, but will see.
Mentally I'm alright, but it's just the idea of having for live with his forever which freaks the shit out of me., although I am hopeful we will someday find a relief for it.. Luckily I got my moment of almost silence everytime I wake up. And my bed is shit together with my pillow, so I'm gonna get a new one soon, so my neck will rest even better at night.
How are you all doing?
I'm currently doing dry needling therapies in order to see if this might release the tension.
Tomorrow is my first real treatment, last time the psychologist just tried 1 needle in order to check my response to it. He used it in my shoulder and felt a lot of muscle knots in there and I could feel it going all the way up untill the back of my ear.
I felt hope full after that and first days felt a little better. However the last 3 days the pain in my neck and er is intense. Sound is damn loud and feelable through my jaw.
Anyways he's also doing some massage techniques on my jaw. My jaw snaps on my left side when i open it, so there is clearly something not right there.
I was actually feeling better for a while, but the last few days just made me feel miserable. I can cope with a sound, but not with the pain and sound, because the more pain I feel, the louder the sound gets and that results in some kind of hollow feeling in my head which is just awful. Hopefully things will improve a bit after tomorrow, but will see.
Mentally I'm alright, but it's just the idea of having for live with his forever which freaks the shit out of me., although I am hopeful we will someday find a relief for it.. Luckily I got my moment of almost silence everytime I wake up. And my bed is shit together with my pillow, so I'm gonna get a new one soon, so my neck will rest even better at night.
I thought I should share what just happened about 4 hours ago.. My neck has been super relaxed since the injections.. And while slightly stretching my shoulder over the guitar I got this massive beep in my ears and tinnitus went away, and I dont have the f***ed up feeling in my ears anymore.. I dont expect this to last though, but wow.. I just got a glimpse of how it is to be normal again.. Tinnitus hasnt returned yet either.. But this gives me hope! Im fairly sure it was something that happened at the bottom of my neck, in the levator scapulae area..
Going to have some massive injections next week all round my neck and shoulders..
@Sjtof , its great to hear from you again! Ive missed you dude! And thanks for the update!
Going to have some massive injections next week all round my neck and shoulders..
@Sjtof , its great to hear from you again! Ive missed you dude! And thanks for the update!
- Apr 28, 2014
- 272
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
@Codaz
Had both of my levator scapulae, suboccipital muscles and trapezius injected with long acting anesthetics.
My neck feels so relaxed.. It also affected the jaw, as my jaw suddenly feels relaxed as well.. The injection of the suboccipitals were slightly painful though.. And I got dizzy.. I still am.. But its not unpleasant.. More like being slightly drunk..
I might do the lateral pterygoideus and masseter next time..
Ill keep you updated
@Mr. Cartman
Woah, this is big news. That is some serious injecting. I'm also wondering about the sub occipital injections. I would think that would be a hard place to safely inject.
I'm interested in the drunk dizzy feeling. Does it feel like when you move your head everything is wobbly? That is how I felt fora bout a month when the T started and when all the pain spread fro just between my shoulder blades and neck to going to my head and face.
Mr. Cartman, @bwspot mentioned that he was doing the overhead press and that was the day his T started. I was doing the overhead press a lot back in 2006 and I think that is around the time my neck pain started. If I understand correctly it is the levator scap that elevates.
I didn't get T back then, but I think that is when my problems started and is one exercise I suspect. I was using the machine where you sit upright and lift the bars striaight up to your side / military press / overhead press.
This thing:
@Mr. Cartman
That is such great news man, the fact that this removed the T, even if it may not be permanent shows that it's clearly a Somatic issue, at least in your case. But I like the fact that you are trying out all the possibilities.
I've had days where I barely noticed it,but last nite was one of the worst nite ever. Due to that i also overslept for my appointment this morning.... Gotta go there on Monday now. I did some stretching laat nite and man one of those sideway head stretches resulted in an awful paining my ear.
Anyways I think I saw someone mentioning the option of working out.
Since the onset of my T I literally didn't touch any weights anymore and didnt do any sports, only shortly after the onset.
So i was wondering what do you guys think about working out again. Or should I leave it to the psychologist now and see what they say, because one said I should just wait a little. But on the other hand I noticed that most if the time my T gets louder when being in static positions like when u r behind a computer desk. So i thought maybe working out may help me regain muscle strength which may have a positive effect on my T.
What do you guys think about that and do you have any experience regarding working out with T?
That is such great news man, the fact that this removed the T, even if it may not be permanent shows that it's clearly a Somatic issue, at least in your case. But I like the fact that you are trying out all the possibilities.
I've had days where I barely noticed it,but last nite was one of the worst nite ever. Due to that i also overslept for my appointment this morning.... Gotta go there on Monday now. I did some stretching laat nite and man one of those sideway head stretches resulted in an awful paining my ear.
Anyways I think I saw someone mentioning the option of working out.
Since the onset of my T I literally didn't touch any weights anymore and didnt do any sports, only shortly after the onset.
So i was wondering what do you guys think about working out again. Or should I leave it to the psychologist now and see what they say, because one said I should just wait a little. But on the other hand I noticed that most if the time my T gets louder when being in static positions like when u r behind a computer desk. So i thought maybe working out may help me regain muscle strength which may have a positive effect on my T.
What do you guys think about that and do you have any experience regarding working out with T?
Are you all bodybuilders like the guy in that movie 
Today I had neck physio again, tissue workout and some initial work on trigger points within the trapezius muscles.
I definately felt something on the top of my head where the tension headaches were I had from january to april (before T).
And @Mr. Cartman I discussed with him what you said. He said although disease image may look comparable between us, faults in muscles / muscle pain can be symptoms from elsewhere. It's not that simple to compare and say we have the same. He's glad that there is improvement, but he sees a lot that can be improved. He gave me 1 excersize that I can train that trigger point at home, with an umbrella with a hook as handle.
@Sjtof I'm going to try the dryneedling as well. How painfull is it?
They said the same to me, we know that static position behind a computer is bad for muscle tension.
Today I had neck physio again, tissue workout and some initial work on trigger points within the trapezius muscles.
I definately felt something on the top of my head where the tension headaches were I had from january to april (before T).
And @Mr. Cartman I discussed with him what you said. He said although disease image may look comparable between us, faults in muscles / muscle pain can be symptoms from elsewhere. It's not that simple to compare and say we have the same. He's glad that there is improvement, but he sees a lot that can be improved. He gave me 1 excersize that I can train that trigger point at home, with an umbrella with a hook as handle.
@Sjtof I'm going to try the dryneedling as well. How painfull is it?
They said the same to me, we know that static position behind a computer is bad for muscle tension.
- Apr 28, 2014
- 272
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
Generally working out hurts trigger points, or at least won't make them better. Sometimes some motions can feel good, but that has only been with my hip and I don't really do that much.
I made a post a page or two back referencing a page saying that what most physical therapists do is wrong because they will have you exercise which will either not work or make it worse. The post also said that you must find a physical therapist who does manual technique and myofascial release. This is very rare. You will normally find only dry needling or exercise. Or, you may find massage therapists. Also, there are supposedly hundreds of different schools of thought or practice so I've been told.
If a study were to ever do a test they need to isolate a specific practitioner line of education. You can't just test anything. It would be like if you tested a drug and didn't make sure the manufacturing was standardized or even which drug you were testing. With physical medicine you need to apply the same principle and name the particular duplication school of practice you are testing and probably also even down the the name of the exact practitioner. That makes physical medicine very difficult to study.
@applewine
I guess the dizziness could be described as you did.. It has gone away for the most part now though.. But right after the injections I kinda had a hard time to walk without feeling drunk..
And regarding the overhead press, levator scapulae does indeed elevate the shoulders..
@Sjtof
Yeah, it does at least seems to be something somatic..
Ive been very careful about heavy lifting and such.. I think doing light exercises could be a good thing though if done correctly.. But Im kind of skeptical of too much strain on my shoulders and neck..
@Codaz
The spot at the top of your head you are talking about is interesting.. I have that too.. Its like the top of my head feels really tight so to speak.. Like the muscles are creating some insane pressure on my skull.. I have no idea what it is, but it sounds a lot like what you are describing..
Were you able to get rid of this stuff at the top of your head last time? And if so, how?
Im inclined at having those muscles injected as well..
I guess the dizziness could be described as you did.. It has gone away for the most part now though.. But right after the injections I kinda had a hard time to walk without feeling drunk..
And regarding the overhead press, levator scapulae does indeed elevate the shoulders..
@Sjtof
Yeah, it does at least seems to be something somatic..
Ive been very careful about heavy lifting and such.. I think doing light exercises could be a good thing though if done correctly.. But Im kind of skeptical of too much strain on my shoulders and neck..
@Codaz
The spot at the top of your head you are talking about is interesting.. I have that too.. Its like the top of my head feels really tight so to speak.. Like the muscles are creating some insane pressure on my skull.. I have no idea what it is, but it sounds a lot like what you are describing..
Were you able to get rid of this stuff at the top of your head last time? And if so, how?
Im inclined at having those muscles injected as well..
@Nick the Swede @Codaz
Just stumbled upon an interesting forum post. Its about noise induced tinnitus though, but Im curious as to how important the lateral pterygoid is in many cases of tinnitus.. They found that the masseter contracts to loud noise.. I havent found any information about the lateral pterygoid being tested, but makes me even more curious about injections into this muscle
"I was wondering if others here can do this:
I have regular tinnitus is both ears. But before that started, I had the usual "ringing in the ears" after a concert or a loud place that would usually subside the next morning. Oddly enough, I was able to stop the ringing by just cracking my jaw bone a few times (by moving my jaw from side to side and hearing the clicking sound of the bone). Within a few seconds, the ringing would be gone. Does that make any sense? Could my jaws be causing the premanent tinnitus I have now?
I know there's a connection between the jaw and the ear nerves.. i'm wondering if others have the same experience."
Just stumbled upon an interesting forum post. Its about noise induced tinnitus though, but Im curious as to how important the lateral pterygoid is in many cases of tinnitus.. They found that the masseter contracts to loud noise.. I havent found any information about the lateral pterygoid being tested, but makes me even more curious about injections into this muscle
"I was wondering if others here can do this:
I have regular tinnitus is both ears. But before that started, I had the usual "ringing in the ears" after a concert or a loud place that would usually subside the next morning. Oddly enough, I was able to stop the ringing by just cracking my jaw bone a few times (by moving my jaw from side to side and hearing the clicking sound of the bone). Within a few seconds, the ringing would be gone. Does that make any sense? Could my jaws be causing the premanent tinnitus I have now?
I know there's a connection between the jaw and the ear nerves.. i'm wondering if others have the same experience."
Wiggling my jaw eases it a bit, but I knew that already for half a year. All connected to TMJ.
Strange enough, the T changed on my tonight. Normally I can press everywhere on my head and it goes much louder, but tonight only the right side of my face and upper neck triggers it. Left side doesn't make it louder.
Oh well, time to sleep
Strange enough, the T changed on my tonight. Normally I can press everywhere on my head and it goes much louder, but tonight only the right side of my face and upper neck triggers it. Left side doesn't make it louder.
Oh well, time to sleep
My TMJ started to flare up a few months ago - my Tinnitus started about 3 weeks ago and has been rather loud on most day. While I have some hearing loss, my ENT and TMJ doctors definitely thought that might be the bigger culpit as I have been getting minor side headaches, minor ear aches, and pain in the jaw joint area near the ear. The muscles in the jaw have been so tense too...the TMJ Dr. showed me a technique to massage them. My traps are also very tight despite the fact I workout (will focus on higher rep shoulder shrug exercises 2-3 times per week as a therapy).
Last night, when bit down on my food...the buzzing noise I heard suddenly changed each time I bit down hard. Is this a sign the TMJ is a factor?
So, I've been using basic Bruxism nightguards which I wear down every year or two as I clench in my sleep...hoping this new TMJ ortho splin improves the situation which I will try to wear much of the day (except at work). My current nightguard had worn down and should have been released several months ago as my jaw always gets this soreness as they wear down.
Last night, when bit down on my food...the buzzing noise I heard suddenly changed each time I bit down hard. Is this a sign the TMJ is a factor?
So, I've been using basic Bruxism nightguards which I wear down every year or two as I clench in my sleep...hoping this new TMJ ortho splin improves the situation which I will try to wear much of the day (except at work). My current nightguard had worn down and should have been released several months ago as my jaw always gets this soreness as they wear down.
- Apr 28, 2014
- 272
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
@dh42 I don't know if or why your grinding is necessary to focus on or not, wearing those down may be normal.
If I was going to approach this it would not be from "TMJ doctors" as I have been to in the past as well. It would be from a physical therapist or anyone who is willing to apply long pressure to those back and neck muscles. Not just the upper trapezius, but also the levator scapulea and others.
It is concerning you say you have some hearing loss. Are you sure or do you know how that occurred?
There is no way for me to know the cause of my tinnitus completely unless I can get rid of it. I hope it is all caused by muscles, but can't know that. Either way I've been unable to treat the muscles successfully. I have multiple sounds in ear ear. Sort of like a low sound in my left ear that is like morse code and a higher pitch and lower hissing in my right ear. There are other sounds there too I think, but I can't hear them as easily.
When my jaw pain was very bad the right side was the one that had the restriction where I couldn't thrust my jaw forward. After a few years I tried stretching it on a daily basis for weeks and eventually this restriction went away. However, the muscle pain in the temples, jaw muscles, neck and everywhere else remains. It is intermittent and not as bad as when it first started years ago, but it lessened on its own without any treatment or stretching.
I suggest you try some of the things I'm trying. Go to myofascialrelease.org and look for an expert level near you. There is also a treatment center in the east coast and mid-west, but these are for intensive programs that are extremely expensive.
Some people say self treatment. There are resources and people who are probably good at treating like this woman: http://www.julstro.com/tag/trigger-point/
The problem is that these people are scattered over long distances.
If I was going to approach this it would not be from "TMJ doctors" as I have been to in the past as well. It would be from a physical therapist or anyone who is willing to apply long pressure to those back and neck muscles. Not just the upper trapezius, but also the levator scapulea and others.
It is concerning you say you have some hearing loss. Are you sure or do you know how that occurred?
There is no way for me to know the cause of my tinnitus completely unless I can get rid of it. I hope it is all caused by muscles, but can't know that. Either way I've been unable to treat the muscles successfully. I have multiple sounds in ear ear. Sort of like a low sound in my left ear that is like morse code and a higher pitch and lower hissing in my right ear. There are other sounds there too I think, but I can't hear them as easily.
When my jaw pain was very bad the right side was the one that had the restriction where I couldn't thrust my jaw forward. After a few years I tried stretching it on a daily basis for weeks and eventually this restriction went away. However, the muscle pain in the temples, jaw muscles, neck and everywhere else remains. It is intermittent and not as bad as when it first started years ago, but it lessened on its own without any treatment or stretching.
I suggest you try some of the things I'm trying. Go to myofascialrelease.org and look for an expert level near you. There is also a treatment center in the east coast and mid-west, but these are for intensive programs that are extremely expensive.
Some people say self treatment. There are resources and people who are probably good at treating like this woman: http://www.julstro.com/tag/trigger-point/
The problem is that these people are scattered over long distances.
@applewine
Have you had any more treatments lately? Curious to hear if you feel that you have had any progress..
Have you had any more treatments lately? Curious to hear if you feel that you have had any progress..
- Apr 28, 2014
- 272
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
@Mr. Cartman I only had one treatment and I missed the one after that from oversleeping. I slept like over 10 hours for some reason and through my alarm clock. Maybe it was the upper respiratory infection and I didn't get enough sleep the night before.
I have the next one on Monday morning and need to make sure I get to it. I'll probably be posting after each one to see what happens and what it was like.
What happened with you after your injections?
I have the next one on Monday morning and need to make sure I get to it. I'll probably be posting after each one to see what happens and what it was like.
What happened with you after your injections?
Applewine,
I have documented TMJ issues for years and xrays show the issue/deterioration too. I've gone notable bone loss as a result of not wearing a nightguard until 10 years ago (should have been much sooner) or not replacing them timely. This time I am just going to a split as that is typically the ebst way to address it and wear it as much as possible until things improve. Clenching my teeth at night has caused the problem. Those jaw muscles getting sore and night from excessive grinding during my sleep when not properly protected. They are in essence over worked and my jaw clicking/popping worsens. The TMj doctor I saw shoed me exercises to help relax and losses those jaw muscles.
The physical therapist is not a bad though for me at some point.
I guess my hearing loss came from blasting my car radio way back in the days and probably having my home theater system too loud at times. There is really no family history of the hearing loss in my family expect for members who were well into their 80s or 90s.
- Apr 28, 2014
- 272
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
I just moved my neck sideways to to the left to stretch it and felt a sudden strong cold/wet sensation on my right thigh side. I'm hoping these water sensations can be reversed if I can get the muscles fixed. I feel them a lot without any particular motion. These are the kind of things that don't show up on MRI. I remember I was in a chat room once for anxiety or something where a lot of people show up with these symptoms and one guy said it was caused by gym training or something. He never had it but said trust him that is what it was. He was like a trainer or something. I'm guessing though that mine can't stop or calm down if it keeps getting flared up because my muscles keeping pulling the wrong stuff. This is one reason I've stopped doing strength training and I just go for walks now. I could reinjure something even if it doesn't show up on any scan, I can feel the paresthesias.
@applewine
I look forward to hear how the treatments work out for you!
I had half a day without tinnitus and weird sensation in the ear, and my shoulders have been very relaxed as well.. Also my neck.. The effect starts to wear out, so I kinda look forward to more injections.. Id like to try injections into the sternocleidomastoid as well, but Ill see.. I need a few muscles intact to move my head as well..
I have to admit that I do feel a lot better though.
I look forward to hear how the treatments work out for you!
I had half a day without tinnitus and weird sensation in the ear, and my shoulders have been very relaxed as well.. Also my neck.. The effect starts to wear out, so I kinda look forward to more injections.. Id like to try injections into the sternocleidomastoid as well, but Ill see.. I need a few muscles intact to move my head as well..
I have to admit that I do feel a lot better though.
I swear.. Ive had that too.. And it seems so damn close related to my neck, as it happens when I stretch the muscles there.. I even got muscle spasms from it..!
@applewine
If you have any suggestions for muscles I should try to inject, let me know
Ill probably try injections of different muscles for a month or two.
After that Ill probably try nerve blocks, and Ive had the auriculotemporal and the great auricular nerve in mind.
If that doesnt work, I might try out Retigabine..
Im also thinking about having my tensor tympani and stapedius tendon cut.
If you have any suggestions for muscles I should try to inject, let me know
Ill probably try injections of different muscles for a month or two.
After that Ill probably try nerve blocks, and Ive had the auriculotemporal and the great auricular nerve in mind.
If that doesnt work, I might try out Retigabine..
Im also thinking about having my tensor tympani and stapedius tendon cut.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,576
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
Someone told me that is not advised!
Someone told me that is not advised!
Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
Similar threads
