Today Was the Hump with My Daughter's Bat Mitzvah

[MattS]

This weekend was my daughter's bat mitzvah. Not sure if everyone is familiar with those or not, but imagine a wedding or a sweet sixteen, but for 12-13 year olds.

The event took place over two nights.

First night was 100 people for a service and dinner. Decibel levels ranged from 75-90 dB, for 4 hours, which was, truthfully, considerably louder than I expected. I had a 32 dB foamie in one ear, and a 26 dB Ear Peace silicone in the other (so that I had at least some ability to converse with guests).

Second night was the big one: 40 kids and 40 adults in a mini disco lounge with a DJ for almost 6 hours. In other words, a tinnitus patient's worse nightmare. For this I wore two 32 dB foamies. Moreover, thankfully, my wife allowed me to ask the DJ to keep the sound level regulated; and even more thankfully he listened. And so the dBs hovered around 86-89 all night (and never seemed to get over 90 dB, which is my perceived threshold at present, with 32 dB protection).

As you can imagine, I've been nervous about this event for months. I couldn't for the life of me miss it; but I also worried that I was going to come out of it a bit of a zombie.

The jury will remain out for a few days, since my reactions can sometimes delay a bit. But if immediate reactions are any indication: I'm going to be all right!

After night one my tinnitus was a little elevated, but I took a bath and that helped bring things back down. Now the second night has just ended, and while things are elevated again, particularly in my left ear, it's not bad enough for me to feel that I should be worried too much about it. Just a little regular elevation, likely to subside in the next few days.

So it looks like I made it!

This is critical, because:

A) it means I *can* handle events like this when they pop up, and

B) there are no other events like this anyyyywhere on the calendar.

This was the hump. This was the big one. This was the event that could have interrupted my healing, and brought me crashing down. This is the one that could have turned me into zombie pulp. However, with it in the rearview, I can focus fully on my recovery again. Which I will continue to do according to the rehabilitation philosophy I laid out here:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-hyperacusis-a-rehabilitative-model.35846/

That philosophy has gotten me this far. With any luck, it'll keep serving me well.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[MattS]

Really brief update:

It's 3 days later, and my elevated tinnitus remains elevated. Moreover, my neck and shoulders have experienced more tension the last couple days, and I can almost feel that tension adding to the weeeeeee. So, not amazing.

That said, the longest post-noise spike I've experienced so far has been 5 days, so I'm still not getting too worried yet. Now, if I don't regulate in the next couple days, that'll be another story, but for now I'm still assuming I'll get back to normal towards the end of the week.

I'll post another update then, because I think the community does well to hear of these experiences.

Cheers

 

[Dja]

Thanks for your update. That's what I was curious about. Tinnitus is so weird. I remember going to a very loud lounge/bowling place dating a girl and when I entered I was reaaall worried but my tinnitus didn't spike after it at all

I really didn't understand it.

 

[Digital Doc]

Thanks for the update. I would think that having the DJ regulate the volume as such was a key component to this working out favorably for you. With foam earplugs, the volume levels you describe should be tolerable for most of us. The problem is that most events we go to, the volume is totally out of our control.

 

[MattS]

Thanks for the update. I would think that having the DJ regulate the volume as such was a key component to this working out favorably for you. With foam earplugs, the volume levels you describe should be tolerable for most of us. The problem is that most events we go to, the volume is totally out of our control.

Agreed.

This event was still 6 hours long, with everyone speaking over the music. So volumes probably often rang into the mod 90s. But I agree with you - having the DJ regulate was super key. If I recall, you were the one that suggested I make the request - so thank you for that!

 

[MattS]

Thanks for your update. That's what I was curious about. Tinnitus is so weird. I remember going to a very loud lounge/bowling place dating a girl and when I entered I was reaaall worried but my tinnitus didn't spike after it at all

I really didn't understand it.

You welcome Dja. Tinnitus veterans probably don't need a lot more stories like this, but I think the newbies can really learn from other's experiences. There's a lot of doom/gloom on the board - some of it warranted. But it's also important to know that life can go on.

Here's hoping my spike drops in the next couple days as I expect, and that my life can start clacking along again as well.

 

[MattS]

One other observation:

The loudness of the two nights was fairly similar, but the type of noise was very different. Night one was all conversation and laughter, everyone speaking and creating a bit of a cacophony of noise. This one affected me a bit, but as I suggested in my first post, I took a bath, relaxed everything back down, and was mostly no worse for wear. Night two - the DJ - was music from loudspeakers. Amplification was tolerable, but there was still higher and lower frequencies, percussions, piano and base. And even though the actual decibels were similar, night two affected me way more.

Maybe that helps explain your bowling alley experience @Dja? Not sure; just guessing a bit. But for me at least the type of sound is as important as its loudness.

Oh god, soon I'm going to be believing that headphones are the devil. @Michael Leigh

 

[Bill Bauer]

it means I *can* handle events like this when they pop up

If you start hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes time before you see the objects on the other side of the wall. If you hit a wall with a sledgehammer and it doesn't break through to the other side, it doesn't imply that your wall is impenetrable.

 

[MattS]

If you start hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes time before you see the objects on the other side of the wall. If you hit a wall with a sledgehammer and it doesn't break through to the other side, it doesn't imply that your wall is impenetrable.

This is probably true, and is actually a fair point given the tone of my comment.

My intention was not to imply that people should go to events like this regularly. Nor that I would be going regularly. In fact, the next one may end up being my daughter's wedding in 15 years! But it's still important for people to know that their ears can still take a bit of a licking. The board abounds with messages like an ambulance just went by, I went to a movie and now have a spike - or even the burglar alarm post that just went up. People can take some space in knowing that those things are likely to recover.

(All that said, I'm now entering day 4 of my own spike without a break, and will admit that I'm starting to get a tad nervous).

 

[Bill Bauer]

But it's still important for people to know that their ears can still take a bit of a licking.

Makes sense - if someone accidentally gets exposed to loud noises (e.g., a fire alarm), your experience [assuming your spike will turn out to be temporary] ought to reassure them.

 

[MattS]

1-week update:

My volume has decreased back down to normal, but the pitch remains noticeably elevated. What I think is really going on is that one of my sounds - the highest pitched one at about 12000 Hz, remains over-active. Usually it sits in the background and only comes out when my system is aggravated. While all other noises have reverted back to baseline, this high pitched noise continues to drone on. It's not my loudest tone, but it is my most annoying.

Anyway, that's where I'm at after 7-days: all sounds have reverted back to baseline except this one 12000 Hz sound, which continues to stay elevated. Hopefully it just needs a few more days to come back down; alternately, it's now set to permanently on, which would suck.

Will keep everyone posted.

 

[Digital Doc]

Hope it goes away. Those higher frequency tones can be more annoying at a similar volume compared to the lower ones.

 

[JohnAdams]

Really brief update:

It's 3 days later, and my elevated tinnitus remains elevated. Moreover, my neck and shoulders have experienced more tension the last couple days, and I can almost feel that tension adding to the weeeeeee. So, not amazing.

That said, the longest post-noise spike I've experienced so far has been 5 days, so I'm still not getting too worried yet. Now, if I don't regulate in the next couple days, that'll be another story, but for now I'm still assuming I'll get back to normal towards the end of the week.

I'll post another update then, because I think the community does well to hear of these experiences.

Cheers

I cant believe you even risked it to begin with. Just give it some time and take some curcumin and hopefully it will calm down.

 

[Auron]

Oh god, soon I'm going to be believing that headphones are the devil.

Do you still use headphones?

 

[MattS]

Do you still use headphones?

I haven't been lately - really haven't been listening to music much at all.

I will sometimes listen to bird chirps or nature sounds on very low levels. Things without base. But I haven't really felt as much need to mask lately either.

So, largely the answer is: no, I haven't been. But I'm not yet convinced they're the devil either.

 

[MattS]

I cant believe you even risked it to begin with. Just give it some time and take some curcumin and hopefully it will calm down.

Magnesium, NAC, curcumin... So many different people have so many different things to take. I've been doing the other two, but not curcumin. You'd recommend that over the other two?

 

[Striveon]

Thanks for your update. That's what I was curious about. Tinnitus is so weird. I remember going to a very loud lounge/bowling place dating a girl and when I entered I was reaaall worried but my tinnitus didn't spike after it at all

I really didn't understand it.

Do you still go to loud places???

 

[Striveon]

@hurtingdream you made it too!

 

[JohnAdams]

Magnesium, NAC, curcumin... So many different people have so many different things to take. I've been doing the other two, but not curcumin. You'd recommend that over the other two?

Yes.

 

[MattS]

Next update: I'm happy to say that as of today I'm pretty convinced that I'm coming back down to baseline. Volume is 90% back down to baseline, pitch is about 80% back down to baseline, and the 12000 Hz noise is losing steam. I'd like to see another couple "normal" days in a row before I claim complete victory, but I think the worst is over.

For those who have been counting (certainly I have been!), it's been 10 days since the event. Which is pretty amazing really: those 6 hours of noise with good ear protection lead my system to stay aggravated for *10 days*. I just created a poll yesterday asking how long people's longest spike has been, and several answers have been in the 2-weeks to even 3-months duration. I don't know about anyone else, but the mechanics at work underneath this process really fascinate me. What could be causing such prolonged volume/pitch increases that eventually resolve themselves?

Perhaps that will be the ultimate take-home here though: the aggravation does indeed appear to have been temporary, and while it has lasted 10ish days (and who knows, maybe it'll hang around a few more), it does look like it is ultimately going to resolve. And so I should be able to go back to enjoying my normal symphony in relative harmony (pun intended).

I'll likely provide one last update, to indicate when I'm officially back at baseline. Hopefully in just another couple days; but you never know with this pesky, unpredictable tinnitus.

 

[Dja]

Do you still go to loud places???

No I don't.

 

[MattS]

Final update: officially back to baseline! Well... 99% back at least. Specifically, my ratings actually have my volume *below* what it was two weeks ago, and my pitch still slightly elevated. Hard to know just how precise that is, since it's all subjective, but bottom line is I'm essentially back to baseline, and maybe even back to moving in the direction of a gradually reduction in volume. Attending these events was risky... I feel fortunate that it didn't cost me.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Attending these events was risky

Do you agree that it is possible that if one keeps attending those events, eventually a spike might stick around? Would you say that it isn't sensible to attend those events?

 

[JohnAdams]

Final update: officially back to baseline! Well... 99% back at least. Specifically, my ratings actually have my volume *below* what it was two weeks ago, and my pitch still slightly elevated. Hard to know just how precise that is, since it's all subjective, but bottom line is I'm essentially back to baseline, and maybe even back to moving in the direction of a gradually reduction in volume. Attending these events was risky... I feel fortunate that it didn't cost me.

mazel tov!

 

[MattS]

Do you agree that it is possible that if one keeps attending those events, eventually a spike might stick around? Would you say that it isn't sensible to attend those events?

Do I agree that it's possible? Sure, it's possible. But I also think it's possible that it may not be the case at all.

Mostly, I think we have no idea. I wish we did, as not knowing is the most frustrating part. But we simply don't know.

Will my next attended wedding increase my tinnitus? Maybe.

Will I be able to attend 300 more weddings without my tinnitus increasing? Also maybe.

So then the question becomes: just how risk averse are you?

You, Bill, are exceptionally risk averse. And that's fine - I'm not criticizing. Just stating the fact: you are exceptionally risk averse. And so for you, avoiding events like this - even though it's essentially a close family member's wedding - seems the only logical stance.

But for someone a little less risk averse, like me, missing out on critical life events like this, when it's perfectly likely that I'll be just fine afterwards, is what seems least sensible. Indeed, my perspective is that it's when tinnitus makes me adjust my life that much that it will have won.

So regarding it "not being sensible" to attend an event like this: No, I definitely would not say that. Rather, I'd say that everyone has to figure out what makes the most sense for them, and what one person thinks is crazy, another will think is just common sense. And here's the most amazing part: they may both be right.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Do I agree that it's possible? Sure, it's possible. But I also think it's possible that it may not be the case at all.

Mostly, I think we have no idea.

How about this: We can be reasonably sure that attending those events increases the chance of getting a permanent spike.

But for someone a little less risk averse, like me, missing out on critical life events like this, when it's perfectly likely that I'll be just fine afterwards, is what seems least sensible.

When the chance of getting a permanent spike = the chance of making your body uninhabitable is, say, 1%, then it would also be the case that it is perfectly likely that someone will be just fine afterwards. By taking that 1% risk, you are basically taking a risk that your daughter will, for all intents and purposes, lose her father. In any case, if you think that there are things in this world that are so good that a couple of hours of enjoying those things are worth a risk of throwing your life away, and ruining the life of your loved ones, then ... it is what it is.

 

[MattS]

How about this: We can be reasonably sure that attending those events increases the chance of getting a permanent spike.

Yes. Agreed. But the question (for many, if not you) still becomes "but how much does it raise the chance?". Because if my chances of having tinnitus increase rise from 1% without going to an event like this, to 1.1% by going...well, I may still choose to go. I mean, there is risk in everything. Take driving a car: to follow your logic: the chances of getting in a car accident increase if your get into a car. The logic is undeniable - but we still all use cars. So that logic, while valid, isn't quite enough.

When the chance of getting a permanent spike = the chance of making your body uninhabitable is, say, 1%, then it would also be the case that it is perfectly likely that someone will be just fine afterwards. By taking that 1% risk, you are basically taking a risk that your daughter will, for all intents and purposes, lose her father.

Again, you are exceptionally risk averse (and somewhat hyperbolic in these sentiments as well). The fact is that the chances that my body becomes "uninhabitable" is easIly less than 1%. I mean, astronomically less than 1%. Like, the actual likelihood is probably more like 1/10th of 1/10th of a percent. Even 1% of the people in this forum, which make up an extremely small percentage of some of the most severe cases of tinnitus, are unlikely to describe their suffering that way (I'm guessing on this, obviously, but I think it's a good guess).

So, again, it's not that your logic is wrong. But the decision that absolutely no amount of risk, no matter how small, is worth living a normal life for...that's not going to be for everyone. It does seem to be for you, and that's okay. But it won't be for everyone, and that's okay too.

By taking that 1% risk, you are basically taking a risk that your daughter will, for all intents and purposes, lose her father. In any case, if you think that there are things in this world that are so good that a couple of hours of enjoying those things are worth a risk of throwing your life away, and ruining the life of your loved ones, then ... it is what it is.

I'm sorry Bill, but this is just an exceptionally stupid and mean-spirited comment, even with the giddy happy face at the end.

The hyperbole here is thick as a pea soup. And to get so snarky at the end because we aren't all living in sound caves like you believe we should be is pretty terrible. But I'll ignore all that and just stick with the logic:

I risk having my daughter go fatherless every day that I get behind the wheel of my car. Indeed, the chances that my body becomes "uninhabitable" because of a car accident, has to be *at least* as high as having my body become "uninhabitable" by attending a noisy event with sound protection. Wouldn't you think? And so, again: everyone has to figure out just which risks in life they are willing to take and which ones they aren't. For you, no risks are worth it, and that's fine. What isn't fine is your attempts to make anyone who disagrees with you feel like a lesser being.

 

[JohnAdams]

I'm sorry Bill, but this is just an exceptionally stupid and mean-spirited comment, even with the giddy happy face at the end.

He is just giving you his best advice. Possibly even trying to scare you straight. I somewhat agree, you may have just dodged bullet. This disease is no joke.

 

[MattS]

He is just giving you his best advice. Possibly even trying to scare you straight. I somewhat agree, you may have just dodged bullet. This disease is no joke.

Goodness. No wonder people are advised to stay away from these forums. The fear-mongering is insatiable.

If my tinnitus gets worse: it's 'I warned you'. If my tinnitus doesn't get worse, it's 'could be next time instead'. If my tinnitus doesn't get worse again, it's 'it builds up gradually, but it'll getcha eventually'. Shit, guys: it's like one collective anxiety disorder on here.

Am I suggesting everyone should go blast themselves with more noise? No. I'm simply suggesting that everyone needs to find their own path along the road to what they consider a normal life. For me, that means spending important moments with my family (the horrors!).

You may argue this if you must, but maybe give it a second thought first, huh?

 

[Bill Bauer]

Because if my chances of having tinnitus increase rise from 1% without going to an event like this, to 1.1% by going...well

After reading countless posts about this, I am pretty sure that between 1% and 25% of those who take these risks live to regret it. It is definitely not rare, and it has Got to be above 1%. So if you estimate that your risk of this happening is 1% to begin with, then your risk will at the very least double.

I mean, astronomically less than 1%.

Astronomically? All it takes is a small change to the pitch or the volume, and you will be there.

(I'm guessing on this, obviously, but I think it's a good guess).

I will make a poll.

an exceptionally stupid

How come? What is happening here is you trading several hours for a significant (1% is significant) risk of losing your life as you know it. What is wrong with this statement? And if it isn't wrong, then what is wrong with spelling it out to you?

we aren't all living in sound caves like you

I don't live in a sound cave. I don't willingly expose myself to danger, that's all.

the chances that my body becomes "uninhabitable" because of a car accident, has to be *at least* as high as having my body become "uninhabitable" by attending a noisy event with sound protection.

Is is true that about 1% of the population die in car crashes. However, the risk is spread around 50 years of driving, whereas in the case of tinnitus sufferers attending noisy events, all of the risk is concentrated in a couple of hours. Also the impact on one's life of foregoing car travel will be much more significant than the impact of missing a couple of loud events. And like I said, 1% seems to be the lower bound of the risk of attending loud events.

everyone has to figure out just which risks in life they are willing to take and which ones they aren't

Makes sense.