Transcranial Stimulation Treatments (rTMS & tDCS & tACS)

[EDDTEKK]

Basically you are hearing beeps / buzzes if your brain is doing something good (the beeps are "cookie" treats for your brain).

In the first session I didn't get so many beeps. Third session I got a lot more and my 2 graph lines were closer together > which is what you want.

Are you sure it's tDCS and not Neurofeedback? In tDCS, I have never heard of there being any feedback / reward tones. In Neurofeedback those tones are common.

 

[Ben Winders]

Are you sure it's tDCS and not Neurofeedback? In tDCS, I have never heard of there being any feedback / reward tones. In Neurofeedback those tones are common.

You are absolutely right - it's Neurofeedback. I must have been drunk when I wrote that.

 

[Ben Winders]

Interesting. Did the rewarding beeps result in a perceived improvement of your symptoms?

Deanxit is one of the drugs promoted by De Ridder. It's a combo of an antipsychotic and a tricyclic antidepressant. I wonder why it is not approved in many countries, including the UK.

I'm desperate but I could invest a month in Ghent to visit Brai3n if I find the strength. It's one of the very few centres specialized in tinnitus that is not doing only trivial things (as opposed to the so called "tinnitus clinic" in London).

With the Deanxit I have a hard time hearing my tinnitus - even in the semi-quiet room they put you in during Neurofeedback (I hear the electrical buzz now, although House is rather quiet, TV is playing in the background). I still have bouts of fleeting tinnitus (today 3 episodes of them, both left and right ear), electrical hiss in both ears, with higher frequency beeping in my right ear.

I still need white noise to sleep. I haven't heard the low buzzing tinnitus for a while now. I also have a reactive component (when I put the dishwasher on or my MacBook starts its fans up).

To answer your question: I don't feel the Neurofeedback is doing much, but maybe there isn't much to be gained. I should stop Deanxit and see how bad it becomes again.

Googling Deanxit it turns out it's not available, for example, in the US, because Deanxit was produced in Denmark but it is not on the market there. I believe the US has a rule that if a certain drug is not on the market where it was conceived, they are not allowing it.

Deanxit explains this as: we just never asked approval for the Danish market (and for other markets they are not being sold). I don't know if that's true or why they didn't apply for these markets.

Keep in mind that the Brai3n doctor that put me on Deanxit also wanted me to take Clonazepam, but I'm not taking that one.

 

[Chinmoku]

Just to add that in a Facebook group there have been two recent cases where the OmniPEMF Neorhythm triggered tinnitus. All, be careful with that one.

 

[ThomasC]

I've just watched this video from professor Dirk de Ridder. He says that all treatments based on electric or magnetic stimulations give positive results to 20-30 % of patients. Same for antidepressants and neuromudulation.

Pretty disappointing, but this video is 5 years old. In a more recent video, he said that the results will hopefully improve thanks to a better understanding of tinnitus and the improvement in technology.

 

[Christiaan]

@Ben Winders, how is it going so far? Did tDCS at the Brai3n Clinic help you with your tinnitus?

 

[Christiaan]

I've just watched this video from professor Dirk de Ridder. He says that all treatments based on electric or magnetic stimulations give positive results to 20-30 % of patients. Same for antidepressants and neuromudulation.

Pretty disappointing, but this video is 5 years old. In a more recent video, he said that the results will hopefully improve thanks to a better understanding of tinnitus and the improvement in technology.

20-30% seems to be true if the tDCS is applied to one particular part of the brain.

However, I came across something interesting in the study of Shekhawat et al (2015).

They applied HD-tDCS bimodal stimulation on the left temporoparietal area [LTA] and dorsolateral prefrontal cortex [DLPFC] and reported a 77% response rate on both loudness and annoyance scales. Another thing is that the authors think that based on their data people with higher TFI scores and relatively good hearing stand a good chance of being helped by this intervention. All in all, Jacquemin's current study seems very promising, as it is largely based on the methods that are applied in Shekhawat's study (link: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1545968315595286).

 

[Ben Winders]

Little update from me:

The neuromodulation I got at Brai3n didn't really do much. I truly wasn't expecting much.

I think, if anything, I would need some current applied to my brain like tDCS.

I had an appointment scheduled with Jacquemin at UZA but I gave up my spot because I was doing the neuromodulation at the time.

So - now I wonder if I should go back to Brai3n for tDCS. Anyone have any idea if they are doing the HD tDCS on both the left temporoparietal area [LTA] and dorsolateral prefrontal cortex [DLPFC]?

I'll send them an email to ask if they do, but maybe one of you already know.

@Christiaan, any reason why you haven't pulled the trigger on Brai3n's tDCS yet? Apart from COVID-19, but I'm sure you'd be able to travel to Ghent, I always see Dutch cars parked in front of Brai3n.

I would love to meet you there some day in the waiting room

Update: I just sent email to Brai3n to ask if they are aware of that study you quoted about the application on 2 brain parts and if they do HD-tDCS or regular tDCS.

 

[Christiaan]

Little update from me:

The neuromodulation I got at Brai3n didn't really do much. I truly wasn't expecting much.

I think, if anything, I would need some current applied to my brain like tDCS.

I had an appointment scheduled with Jacquemin at UZA but I gave up my spot because I was doing the neuromodulation at the time.

So - now I wonder if I should go back to Brai3n for tDCS. Anyone have any idea if they are doing the HD tDCS on both the left temporoparietal area [LTA] and dorsolateral prefrontal cortex [DLPFC]?

I'll send them an email to ask if they do, but maybe one of you already know.

@Christiaan, any reason why you haven't pulled the trigger on Brai3n's tDCS yet? Apart from COVID-19, but I'm sure you'd be able to travel to Ghent, I always see Dutch cars parked in front of Brai3n.

I would love to meet you there some day in the waiting room

Update: I just sent email to Brai3n to ask if they are aware of that study you quoted about the application on 2 brain parts and if they do HD-tDCS or regular tDCS.

Hi @Ben Winders.

Too bad that neuromodulation didn't work out for you. At least you can cross that one off your list of to-do treatments.

Please, let me/us know what Bra3in thinks about bimodal stimulation. But now that you mention this clinic, I wasn't actually aware of Brai3n until fairly recently. I only know that you can only partake in Jacquemin's study if you haven't participated in another tinnitus trial within the last 2 months. So that won't be something I would consider for the next few months.

I have only registered for Jacquemin's study in Antwerp and my next appointment is scheduled on the 14th of June at the UZA location in Edegem. Perhaps our paths cross on or near this date

 

[Ben Winders]

Hi @Ben Winders.

Too bad that neuromodulation didn't work out for you. At least you can cross that one off your list of to-do treatments.

Please, let me/us know what Bra3in thinks about bimodal stimulation. But now that you mention this clinic, I wasn't actually aware of Brai3n until fairly recently. I only know that you can only partake in Jacquemin's study if you haven't participated in another tinnitus trial within the last 2 months. So that won't be something I would consider for the next few months.

I have only registered for Jacquemin's study in Antwerp and my next appointment is scheduled on the 14th of June at the UZA location in Edegem. Perhaps our paths cross on or near this date

Called Jacquemin's team this morning - wait time is about 8 months before you get your first brain zap, if you get on the list today :|

 

[Christiaan]

Called Jacquemin's team this morning - wait time is about 8 months before you get your first brain zap, if you get on the list today :|

Wow, 8 months is quite some time. I just called the ENT department to check on this and they told me that the waiting list is quite long, but some could receive treatment much earlier if they meet certain criteria. I will only know for certain how long this could be after my appointment on the 14th.

 

[Ben Winders]

Wow, 8 months is quite some time. I just called the ENT department to check on this and they told me that the waiting list is quite long, but some could receive treatment much earlier if they meet certain criteria. I will only know for certain how long this could be after my appointment on the 14th.

As they explained it to me, the only reason I (emphasis on "I") would be able to get higher on the list is if I would be willing to participate in the blind/placebo trajectory which means that you aren't sure if you get the real therapy or not.

If you opt to get on the list that gets the treatment 100%, you have to wait (8) months.

 

[Christiaan]

As they explained it to me, the only reason I (emphasis on "I") would be able to get higher on the list is if I would be willing to participate in the blind/placebo trajectory which means that you aren't sure if you get the real therapy or not.

If you opt to get on the list that gets the treatment 100%, you have to wait (8) months.

Ok, are you willing to wait that long?

I belief they mentioned in the current study design (link) that even if you had placebo, you will receive the real treatment after the trial is finished (after 30th of September, 2021).

Personally, I would take my chances + enjoy a few weeks in the beautiful region of Flanders and try all the 150 + top notch beer

Edit: I found the reference about receiving real treatment after getting placebo:

 

[Ben Winders]

Ok, are you willing to wait that long?

No, I would probably go to Brai3n instead - not sure you'll get the same treatment there though.

 

[Christiaan]

No, I would probably go to Brai3n instead - not sure you'll get the same treatment there though.

Good luck! If they happen to have HD-tDCS at Brai3n, you could show them this (see picture) from Jacquemin's study design and ask them if they are willing to replicate that for you. It seems easy to copycat IMO.

 

[ThomasC]

Hi @Ben Winders.

Too bad that neuromodulation didn't work out for you. At least you can cross that one off your list of to-do treatments.

Please, let me/us know what Bra3in thinks about bimodal stimulation. But now that you mention this clinic, I wasn't actually aware of Brai3n until fairly recently. I only know that you can only partake in Jacquemin's study if you haven't participated in another tinnitus trial within the last 2 months. So that won't be something I would consider for the next few months.

I have only registered for Jacquemin's study in Antwerp and my next appointment is scheduled on the 14th of June at the UZA location in Edegem. Perhaps our paths cross on or near this date

I read the study. It looks good. I know there is an ongoing study using this HD-tDCS in Belgium. Maybe we will know more about it next year.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Dirk de Ridder is doing this in New Zealand.

 

[Christiaan]

I have an appointment in about 2 weeks with Dr. Laure Jacquemin. Are there any questions you guys want me to ask her about this particular HD-tDCS issue?

 

[Lukee]

I have an appointment in about 2 weeks with Dr. Laure Jacquemin. Are there any questions you guys want me to ask her about this particular HD-tDCS issue?

Keep us updated (obviously!) with details from your appointment.

 

[Frédéric]

Efficacy of Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (rTMS) for Tinnitus: A Retrospective Study

An umpteenth retrospective study about rTMS with a more or less positive conclusion. But this time, some relevant information has been provided:

"Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation treatment is effective for patients with tinnitus, but its efficacy is affected by tinnitus duration. Tinnitus patients are advised to attend for rTMS as soon as possible since therapy was more effective in those with a shorter duration of disease of less than 1 week."​

I recall that I underwent rTMS 4 months after my tinnitus onset. Neither the ENT nor the tinnitus clinic I visited respectively 2 days and 15 days after my tinnitus onset advised me to undergo rTMS as soon as possible.

Obviously, given the time limit, it had no effect on my tinnitus.

 

[Nobody19]

No, I would probably go to Brai3n instead - not sure you'll get the same treatment there though.

Hi @Ben Winders (fellow Belgian?), did you ever get the tympanic patch?

 

[ThomasC]

Efficacy of Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (rTMS) for Tinnitus: A Retrospective Study

An umpteenth retrospective study about rTMS with a more or less positive conclusion. But this time, some relevant information has been provided:

"Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation treatment is effective for patients with tinnitus, but its efficacy is affected by tinnitus duration. Tinnitus patients are advised to attend for rTMS as soon as possible since therapy was more effective in those with a shorter duration of disease of less than 1 week."​

I recall that I underwent rTMS 4 months after my tinnitus onset. Neither the ENT nor the tinnitus clinic I visited respectively 2 days and 15 days after my tinnitus onset advised me to undergo rTMS as soon as possible.

Obviously, given the time limit, it had no effect on my tinnitus.

rTMS seems to be less effective than rTDCS to treat tinnitus.

 

[Ben Winders]

Hi @Ben Winders (fellow Belgian?), did you ever get the tympanic patch?

No, I didn't - they said I wasn't ready for it as I was too anxious. I really don't know what good a tympanic patch would do for my form of tinnitus though...

What does your tinnitus sound like?


A little update:
1) I 'll be starting neuromodulation at UZA in 2 weeks
2) I have a follow-up appointment with Prof. Dr De Ridder in Gent (face to face for the first time) in 2 weeks.

Will report back in this thread, of course.

 

[Nobody19]

My tinnitus is actually pretty mild, I have quite a high tone but I habituated to it.

However, the fullness in my ears is really bothering me. That's where the patching supposedly should help.

 

[EDDTEKK]

Hi @Ben Winders, which type of Neuromodulation will you get? Why not at Brai3n? Didn't they propose the new tDCS type to you?

 

[Ben Winders]

Hi @Ben Winders, which type of Neuromodulation will you get? Why not at Brai3n? Didn't they propose the new tDCS type to you?

I'm assuming I'll be getting tDCS at UZA.

I'm assuming you mean the new tDCS Prof. Dirk De Ridder is working on? I don't think they are offering that one yet. I think they only have tDCS for now.

(A lot of assumptions).

 

[EDDTEKK]

They now have HD-tDCS in Brai3n, the new and optimized version, don't they? Like Professor Dirk De Ridder explained on his YouTube video.

 

[Jimmyboi]

MaST: MEG and Brain Stimulation in Tinnitus (MaST)

I hadn't seen this posted about, apologies if it's already known.

There's a clinical trial in Nottingham UK looking into tDCS for tinnitus.

I took part and it took about 3 hours. Travel and time were compensated (to a limit), which was nice of them!

Best way we can figure out if this stuff is viable is taking part when trials are available, so hopefully others will be able to get in on this.

 

[AfroSnowman]

MaST: MEG and Brain Stimulation in Tinnitus (MaST)

I hadn't seen this posted about, apologies if it's already known.

There's a clinical trial in Nottingham UK looking into tDCS for tinnitus.

I took part and it took about 3 hours. Travel and time were compensated (to a limit), which was nice of them!

Best way we can figure out if this stuff is viable is taking part when trials are available, so hopefully others will be able to get in on this.

Any positive effect?

 

[PortugalTheMan]

Any positive effect?

This treatment is very effective in relieving depression.

It is more of a treatment that treats the symptoms of tinnitus instead of treating tinnitus and lowering the sound volume and the amount of tones.