Treatment Prospects: Vagus Nerve Stimulation

[marqualler]

Vagus nerve stimulation is VERY promising indeed. Great article about how it is used to cure arthritis.

http://www.businessinsider.com/vagus-nerve-stimulation-2015-6?IR=T

This is fascinating. We may not be able to reap the benefits of research like this in our lifetimes but we can pay it forward by learning it about it now to help future generations.

Thanks for sharing, @Sound Wave!

 

[Inge]

I don't fancy an expensive surgery and VNS implant either, but I found a company called electro core that developed a non invasive VNS handheld device called the gamma core. You place it on your neck a few minutes a day and the current is transferred through the skin. Caveat, although the company is located in the US, it is not FDA approved. You can only buy it in Europe and Canada.

 

[Sound Wave]

tVNS is a treatment without surgery. For example a Helsinki based T clinic offers this kind of a treatment. The page is in Finnish: http://www.tinnitus.fi/fi/TINNITUKSEN HOITO/Vagushermostimulaatio/

I have a modified TENS-device with a vagus nerve stimulation electrode, which both are very cheap and simple technology, around ~$50. Interested ones can hack that together relatively simply.

 

[erik]

I don't think a tens device or anything over the skin can effectively stimulate the vagus nerve like a medical grade implanted device otherwise there would be no need for it in the first place.

 

[Sound Wave]

^ I agree, they must be different in terms of efficiency. However, you REALLY feel the tVNS stimulation, trust me. It's quite a zap what you feel, when the power is set too high.

 

[Silvio Sabo]

^ I agree, they must be different in terms of efficiency. However, you REALLY feel the tVNS stimulation, trust me. It's quite a zap what you feel, when the power is set too high.

Right, this is because it actually zapps you. It goes to the skin wheras the real VNS stimulation device goes to the intended target, the Vagus Nerve. The nerves in the skin are the ones then are giving you this sensation. This is basically a proof it's not working as intended.

The nerves in the skin are going to conduct all of the electricity to somewhere else as they're not connected directly to the VN. The VN is also protected by a myelin sheath and is sitting deep into the tissue so none of the electricity should be able to get through to the VN.

So they're probably not different in efficacy, they're just different. I consider the tVNS device to be a self tazing device rather then a VNS stimulation device.

It probably works better in dog training then treatment of tinnitus.

 

[Tong]

Does the modified device work in your case, Sound Wave?

 

[dan26]

i dont think i would want something implanted in my chest. i have the CI already and thats enough. Inner part replaced after 3 years due to an assault. Wherever there is a surgery you get scar tissue and i think from the CI i have worse balance (heavy head) as a result. I'm also wondering if babies crying (110db) would affect tinnitus. My T has gotten lots worse since baby being born about 1 year ago.

 

[Sound Wave]

I have just tried it once @Tong. The device works, but I can't comment on the affect on T.

 

[Christian78]

i dont think i would want something implanted in my chest. i have the CI already and thats enough. Inner part replaced after 3 years due to an assault. Wherever there is a surgery you get scar tissue and i think from the CI i have worse balance (heavy head) as a result. I'm also wondering if babies crying (110db) would affect tinnitus. My T has gotten lots worse since baby being born about 1 year ago.

There are reports people getting tinnitus from baby cries, specially if is lay on your chest and suddenly screem

 

[AndyM]

I have a modified TENS-device with a vagus nerve stimulation electrode, which both are very cheap and simple technology, around ~$50. Interested ones can hack that together relatively simply.

@Sound Wave , I am very interested in giving this a try! Do you have any instructions? In particular where to get hold of a vagus stimulation electrode? I've tried searching online, but can't seem to come across anything suitable. Many thanks!

 

[Sound Wave]

I couldn't find them either. It's a very simple clip-on-thing which has to be available somewhere - maybe get one from another device that uses them? This Helsinki based T clinic sells these devices - http://tinnitus.fi

 

[lapidus]

VNS is covered in this recent article:
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/43843/title/The-Sounds-of-Silence/

"The proof-of-concept trial was followed up by a larger-scale study of 30 patients at four sites in the U.S. that concluded this April. The most common side effect was a hoarse voice, but otherwise the treatment is considered safe. Results from the trial will be published this autumn, but Engineer says that the data look promising."

 

[Dawn Whinetaker]

Hey guys, glad I found this thread- I've managed to get a tVNS device from England. On the company's site they say they are partnered with the a Helsinki clinic. I've been using the treatment for about a week now... they say results are seen between 8-12 weeks, so we shall see. This is the site.

 

[markoana]

Hey guys, glad I found this thread- I've managed to get a tVNS device from England. On the company's site they say they are partnered with the a Helsinki clinic. I've been using the treatment for about a week now... they say results are seen between 8-12 weeks, so we shall see. This is the site.

Keep us updated on this thread.

Good luck!

 

[Mathieu Groleau]

I have just tried it once @Tong. The device works, but I can't comment on the affect on T.

Hello @Sound Wave. are you trying to stimulate your VN through the ear VN connection, or through the neck directly? Do you have more details on your montage and Tens device settings please?
I tried once at the ear VN connection (left side, Auricular Branch of the VN), with anode (+) electrode right outside the ear canal (see image http://www.nature.com/gimo/contents/pt1/images/gimo2-f7.jpg and http://img.medscape.com/pi/emed/ckb/clinical_procedures/79926-81306-82698-110282.jpg) and another just behind the same ear, using a Foc.us V2 device on tPCS (pulse) setting @ 1 mA, 30Hz, 20%, unipolar, 15V limiter for 40 minutes. Parameters where deduced from tVNS device manuals and studies.
I haven't had the time to set a regimen yet. Will try every 2 days soon. I need to get a better electrode to fit my ear. Lack of good contact is causing voltage to go up. I would love to get a hold of an electrode like this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46620951/tVNS_Electrode_1.png or this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46620951/tVNS_Electrode_2.jpg
BTW, for the DIYer out there, do not try this on the right ear as the nerve connection on that side can cause heart rate irregularity. Cheers!

 

[Mathieu Groleau]

Hey guys, glad I found this thread- I've managed to get a tVNS device from England. On the company's site they say they are partnered with the a Helsinki clinic. I've been using the treatment for about a week now... they say results are seen between 8-12 weeks, so we shall see. This is the site.

Hello @Dawn Whinetaker , are you in the US or Canada? How did you manage to get your hands on this device? I'm in Canada and they mention on their site they don't ship to US and Canada. Thank you!

 

[Sound Wave]

@Mathieu Groleau I haven't used the device at all. I have posted more info about this somewhere here some time ago.

 

[Dawn Whinetaker]

Hello @Dawn Whinetaker , are you in the US or Canada? How did you manage to get your hands on this device? I'm in Canada and they mention on their site they don't ship to US and Canada. Thank you!

I am in the US (in Alaska, actually). I've got a friend from England who was visiting and I asked her to buy it and bring it over. I've actually had a small reduction in my tinnitus since starting the treatment which I'm very happy about but it's too early to attribute it directly to the tVNS.

 

[markoana]

I am in the US (in Alaska, actually). I've got a friend from England who was visiting and I asked her to buy it and bring it over. I've actually had a small reduction in my tinnitus since starting the treatment which I'm very happy about but it's too early to attribute it directly to the tVNS.

How your device looks like?

Update us, and wish u every luck!

 

[Dawn Whinetaker]

How your device looks like?

Update us, and wish u every luck!

I'm not getting to ahead of myself but I've had a real drop in my tinnitus now. I'm very impressed with this treatment so far. The device is a small white flip unit with one lead that clips onto your ear with a small clip electrode. I'm not the best at explaining it, but you can see more here- http://www.tinnitustreatmentcentre.com/transcutaneous_vagus_nerve_stimulation_sound_therapy_technology.html

The treatment is a combination of tVNS and sound therapy, 1hr a day, every day. It wasn't cheap at 600 pounds ($930 US dollars), but thats a lot less than I have paid for other treatments that have been unsuccessful. If you are in the UK you can also rent the treatment at 40 pounds per month.

 

[ChrisJ]

I'm not getting to ahead of myself but I've had a real drop in my tinnitus now. I'm very impressed with this treatment so far. The device is a small white flip unit with one lead that clips onto your ear with a small clip electrode. I'm not the best at explaining it, but you can see more here- http://www.tinnitustreatmentcentre.com/transcutaneous_vagus_nerve_stimulation_sound_therapy_technology.html

The treatment is a combination of tVNS and sound therapy, 1hr a day, every day. It wasn't cheap at 600 pounds ($930 US dollars), but thats a lot less than I have paid for other treatments that have been unsuccessful. If you are in the UK you can also rent the treatment at 40 pounds per month.

Sorry if this has been asked already but how is this any different from a TENS machine that can be bought for £60 from Boots with ear clip adapters and a $10 app which can play custom masking sounds? I just can't help but see more marketing than science and someone cashing in on the desperation of tinnitus suffers. Sorry for my bias.

 

[ChrisJ]

I don't think a tens device or anything over the skin can effectively stimulate the vagus nerve like a medical grade implanted device otherwise there would be no need for it in the first place.
View attachment 7336

In the Boots TENS machine manual it says you can criss cross the positive and negative electrodes to reach deeper tissues. I have been doing it myself with varying degrees of success, it does take a bit of fiddling. Here is an example illustration:

And looking at the Tinnitus Treatment Center website their SaluSTIM device looks a lot like my £60 Boots TENS Machine, compare:

SaluSTIM™ £599

Regular £60 TENS Unit from Boots!​

If they claim that somehow the electronic pulses are bespoke to your Tinnitus frequencies then the TENS unit allows you to adjust frequencies. To me if this treatment works at all I would say it's simply a distraction device designed to take your mind away from the tinnitus. And what they heck, if it's psychological I don't care, as long as it works. But I think spending hundreds of dollars on it is a bit much.

Anyone on here with a TENS unit can try it out and report back. I will be doing this and taking detailed notes. Could save people a lot of money and aggregation.

cc @AndyM also see my post here for arrangement of electrodes. I will try different placements and report back with results.

 

[dboy]

I'm not getting to ahead of myself but I've had a real drop in my tinnitus now. I'm very impressed with this treatment so far.

It looks like the sound therapy component is notched music according to the TTC website:

"Sound Therapy treats your tinnitus by omitting your unique perceived frequency of tinnitus from your music. "

It is possible you are getting a reduction in volume from that. There is a thread about it elsewhere on TT. I guess the big question is whether the effect is enhanced by the application of the electrodes. And also how lasting it is. Good luck anyway.

 

[erik]

I consider this and Tens machines in general to be pseudoscience ...but is it? -- http://www.economist.com/news/techn...cs-or-ready-made-device-it-possible-stimulate

Question everything!

 

[ChrisJ]

Question everything!

Why?

 

[erik]

Why?

Because I need to understand how things in this world fit my own reality and because I can't always accept that things are the way that they are because that's the way it is. I guess that is why I hang out on TT daily.

"The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see."- A.K. Trenfor

 

[ChrisJ]

Ok I posted up some of my pseudoscience on the other Vagus Nerve thread @erik https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...elf-vagus-nerve-stimulation.8211/#post-136734

As I say at the end, I think all it's really doing is distracting me from the T, nothing fancy like neuroplasticity of the auditory cortex.

 

[Dawn Whinetaker]

Sorry if this has been asked already but how is this any different from a TENS machine that can be bought for £60 from Boots with ear clip adapters and a $10 app which can play custom masking sounds? I just can't help but see more marketing than science and someone cashing in on the desperation of tinnitus suffers. Sorry for my bias.

Honestly I'm not sure how it's different from the TENS machine. My friend from England read a newspaper article on this particular machine and I thought it would be worth trying. I know certain TENS machines can be upwards of the same price. Granted, there are cheaper ones- but as with any technological product, the more it costs, the higher quality it is. Unfortunately there are a lot of marketing schemes out there ready to take advantage of tinnitus sufferers, but because of my improvement thus far, I honestly don't think this product is one of those 'schemes'. I am curious as to, when I stop the treatment, how long the improved condition will last.

 

[Dawn Whinetaker]

It looks like the sound therapy component is notched music according to the TTC website:

"Sound Therapy treats your tinnitus by omitting your unique perceived frequency of tinnitus from your music. "

It is possible you are getting a reduction in volume from that. There is a thread about it elsewhere on TT. I guess the big question is whether the effect is enhanced by the application of the electrodes. And also how lasting it is. Good luck anyway.

Having suffered for quite some time, the fact that my tinnitus is lessoning is certainly a positive thing for me. It will be interesting to see if it can have lasting affects, though. Needless to say, decreasing the volume and annoyance of my T has been a HUGE blessing to me- so I do feel it was worth trying.