Treble Health: Exploitation of Tinnitus Sufferers

[Stuart-T]

I hate people who profit from others in need, that happens a lot with people struggling with health conditions.

I have no objection to people profiting from others in need - as long as their product/services actually work.

 

[NYCGuy]

I have no objection to people profiting from others in need - as long as their product/services actually work.

I didn't express myself properly, but that's exactly what I hate, they profit selling stuff that doesn't work.

 

[tpj]

What's wrong with these ads is that they completely trivialise tinnitus. You wouldn't even think it was a medical condition.

 

[just1morething]

One thing I know - wishing for silence is perfectly understandable, maybe even unavoidable, but it is counterproductive.

I reached the sorry conclusion that it had gone, and gone for good.

Since I accepted this fact, started practicing daily meditation, and started gratefully accepting 'stillness' into my criteria, I became a much happier bunny.

Try studying the teachings of Eckhart Tolle.

Dave xx
Jazzer

I'm glad you're doing quite well with daily meditation Jazzer. Do you ever need benzos like Diazepam or Clonazepam? I'll look into the teachings of Eckhart Tolle.

My most common noise is static. I know my posture can be quite bad which may or may not be a factor.

I came across this thread today after reading about Treble Health online. I don't like his advertising, so probably more or less a scam. I already have expensive Widex Moment hearing aids.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

He's at it again, can't miss out on this *checks notes*... Tinnitus Holiday Sale. I'm removing myself from their mailing list. Makes me sick to my stomach that I ever gave them a cent.

View attachment 52464

"Reducing your tinnitus fast" what a fucking predatory remark and blatant fucking lie. Going to be making a video on this clown soon.

 

[Nick47]

Ben Thompson is disingenuous to say the least. He offers nothing you can't get on the high street. I put Doctor Cliff, AuD in the same bracket.

 

[NebulousWoe]

I hate people who profit from others in need, that happens a lot with people struggling with health conditions.

I just don't understand how someone who can fairly adeptly debunk tinnitus supplements can be so lacking in self-awareness that he would think that this is appropriate. You'd think one of his employees or patients would have told him by now how incredibly sleazy these ads are.

 

[Stuart-T]

I have noticed Ben Thompson and many other audiologists and tinnitus cure experts claim they also have tinnitus. I am not saying they do not - but it could be easily claimed and not be true.

 

[slc]

New here, hate talking or even thinking about my hyperacusis and (relatively mild) tinnitus so I don't plan to stay long, but I wanted to share an ad that Treble Health put out. It really rubbed me the wrong way.

View attachment 52243

They decided it would be fruitful to offer tinnitus maskers at a discount — so only a few thousand dollars instead of several thousand — for Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

Are you shitting me?

A "Cyber Monday deal" for your debilitating condition? Who is this for? Who do these people imagine are holding out for a "tinnitus deal," and what are their other patients supposed to make of this? "Ah shucks, I shoulda just put up with the ringing until Cyber Monday!"

Anyway yeah, Treble Health are the usual charlatans who push decades-old erroneous conflations of hyperacusis with misophonia and phonophobia, and Ben Thompson is an arrogant and impersonal douche, utterly bereft of self-awareness and the bare minimum of professional conduct. Just look at the dozens of clickbait-y videos he puts out on a regular basis. They're parasites, businessmen masquerading as doctors so they can earn a regular buck from some of the most desperate people. They should be run the hell out of business.

The promotional videos also rub me the wrong way. And in something of a bait and switch, one of Ben's recent online Zoom meetings, entitled to the effect of "Will there be a tinnitus cure by 2025", briefly reviewed some of the research being done, and then basically offered the usual information about sound therapy and stages of habituation as the way to go. Not much was said about Dr. Susan Shore. Her 2nd trial would have been well worth emphasizing. I wrote a comment in the Chat for specifics on her results, but they didn't answer my query. To be fair I think it was only days after her results were released. (I'm not even sure the information had been posted here on Tinnitus Talk at that point, but it was definitely after the Palm Springs Hearing Seminar convention.)

Also Ben seems to use the term masker pretty liberally. I signed up for $2600 Phonak hearing aids with Bluetooth and purple noise. There is a six week window to return them to Treble Health for a full refund as I understand it. The (promotional) cost included setting them up online, perhaps 4 or 5 counselling sessions with a licensed audiologist experienced with tinnitus and the option to participate in bi-monthly support groups at least for a limited time.

The Phonak hearing aids have Bluetooth capability so I can use my favorite notched sound from the TinnitusPlay app. I would say that's my favorite feature and of course the devices are not earbuds that would otherwise block out sound. Admittedly Bose makes a product that fits similarly for much cheaper but there's no hearing aid capability. The purple noise isn't bad and the hearing aids are somewhat helpful given my moderate hearing loss above 4000 Hz. The audiologist I'm working with is supportive, flexible about approaches, listens carefully, and is knowledgeable.

The self-promotion part is indeed a total downer particularly for those who are new to tinnitus. Clearly Treble Health is trying to build an online business; however, in my view, the promotional videos and ads go over the line. That being said, it may be the first time that a person with tinnitus is speaking to an audiologist who knows something about the area.

A little bit of my background. I'm far from being a newbie at this. I've been around the block with tinnitus many a time and have been a member of this community for years.

My situation began with catastrophic tinnitus 10 years ago after my father died. I went from about 155 to 135 pounds. I couldn't sleep. I was unable to drive and had to go on disability. So fairly catastrophic. Since then I have explored:

• Ayurveda: helpful going through a six week cleanse in India where my tinnitus went from about a 7 to a 4. The improvement from Ayurvedic treatment (panchakarma) lasted for about two months after I came back to the States. After that point, the tinnitus started creeping back up but as this was at the beginning of the COVID-19 epidemic, I was dealing with tension about how to safely deal with preventing infection and as we know tension and anxiety are not ideal.
  
• Acupuncture: I finally found one person out of eight I tried; he was able to reduce the decibel level for a day or two after treatment.
  
• Hypnosis: interesting and probably helpful with a particular hypnotist trained on tinnitus
• Craniosacral Therapy: somewhat helpful especially after a recent acoustic trauma where the muscles in the middle ear were spasming.
• Klonopin and Gabapentin: helpful at first but I'm not sure about now; I take 1 mg of Klonopin and 500 mg of Gabapentin - there is supposed to be a synergistic effect at least according to one peer reviewed study I read.
• Tinnitus Retraining Therapy: the limited counselling and TRT is only useful when one is in the very early panic stages with severe or catastrophic tinnitus. The maskers were ridiculously priced, $1800 for something that probably cost $10 to produce in China, but they were lifesavers when I was in my absolute fight or flight mode and pretty desperate.

Unfortunately, I've recently been exposed to a very loud smoke detector and most days I'm back up to an 8. The Phonak hearing aids, using Bluetooth to play TinnitusPlay's "notched water mix 2" brings things down to a 6.5 (varying from day to day). Since the recent alarm exposure, my tinnitus seems to get worse over the course of the day which was not the case before.

Back to Treble Health, I wrote in the Chat when they were doing one of the Zoom offers that a time-limited sale wasn't fair to people experiencing fight or flight. The pressure of making a split second decision is above and beyond in my view. I sent them a message suggesting the offer should be open for a much longer window of time. In truth I think they should set one price, without promoting various sales. That, along with some of the ads, actually undercuts what they do offer, which is white/pink noise devices, hearing aids, sound therapy advice, TRT advice, CBT advice and so forth. It's the typical stuff that we've all explored.

There is a free initial one-on-one session with an audiologist and the one I had was not at all high pressure. Then again I'm knowledgeable about what the options are and if I had felt the least bit pressured, I would've ended things after that initial meeting.

 

[Nick47]

Anyone joining the Tinnitus Summit in 45 minutes? It's free but an uninspiring line up with the exception of our @Hazel and possibly Dr. De Ridder.

Load of habituation/coping/sound therapy bollocks with a dose of technical junk that doesn't work and a man who stole a living doing no research, promoting you know what...

2023 could be 1983 looking at this line up.

 

[Nick47]

Well, today's Tinnitus Summit started well with Dr. De Ridder and our own @Hazel. Both were great and had good feedback in the comments.

It then denigrated into TRT and that other divisive figure, whose name I shall not mention.

It's currently LIVE. You can go back to watch from the start which began 2 hours ago.



Subtitles available.

 

[Stayinghopeful]

I actually like some of Ben Thompson's videos. The interview/podcast with Jennifer Gans is a really good listen, especially for anyone like myself who is prone to the odd anxiety/panic moment when my tinnitus gets bad.

 

[Chronumbra]

This makes me sad to see as I have always appreciated the advice given from Ben's YouTube videos. I still think his advice is good, but I don't see why sound therapy should have to be administered via an expensive in-ear device.

 

[ZFire]

Well, today's Tinnitus Summit started well with Dr. De Ridder and our own @Hazel. Both were great and had good feedback in the comments.

It then denigrated into TRT and that other divisive figure, whose name I shall not mention.

It's currently LIVE. You can go back to watch from the start which began 2 hours ago.

Subtitles available.

Thanks for posting this. I could listen to @Hazel all day. Love her bit on becoming a critic of tinnitus treatment studies. Like evaluating randomized controlled trials and looking for biases in its design, (acute/chronic patient selection, sample size, etc) and most importantly, outcome measures and issues that arise from using the Tinnitus Functional Index (TFI).

 

[DeanD]

To be fair to Ben, as much as this is of course his business - and all videos are marketing efforts for it - I genuinely get the impression that he does want to help sufferers, has studied tinnitus, gets the severities and conditions, keeps up to date with latest trends - and posts success videos to help show tinnitus sufferers that there are people that can get loud tinnitus and still make a life for themselves.

If only we had more audiologists and 'tinnitus specialists' as interested in the condition and future treatment, rather than 'just' pushing hearing aids for $$$ and TRT based on Jastrepratts protocols.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To be fair to Ben, as much as this is of course his business - and all videos are marketing efforts for it - I genuinely get the impression that he does want to help sufferers, has studied tinnitus, gets the severities and conditions, keeps up to date with latest trends - and posts success videos to help show tinnitus sufferers that there are people that can get loud tinnitus and still make a life for themselves.

If only we had more audiologists and 'tinnitus specialists' as interested in the condition and future treatment, rather than 'just' pushing hearing aids for $$$ and TRT based on Jastrepratts protocols.

For some time now, Ben has been in very close collusion with Julian Cowan Hill.

Julian Cowan Hill has said in three videos that, if you write the word "LOVE" on a piece of tape and affix it to the side of a steel cooker, the force of love allegedly contained within the word will penetrate the steel side and improve the molecular configuration of the substances contained within the cooker (the examples he gives are ice and rice).

Julian Cowan Hill has stated that doing the same with the word "HATE" will result in an invisible force penetrating the steel and negatively effecting the molecular composition of such substances contained within the cooker.

Julian Cowan Hill has also stated that it is not possible to determine the condition of any internal organs, tissues, etc. within the body. After I had a good laugh, I wrote on his YouTube Video Commentary (as did others) that perhaps he should familiarize himself with the purposes of an MRI, a CT Scan, or an X-ray. He deleted my comment and never responded.

If Ben had even a scintilla of professional integrity, he would have unconditionally refused any association with Julian Cowan Hill.

I am so exhausted with all of the charlatans, poseurs, gaslighting jerks, fabulists, purveyors of crank, empirically disprovable nonsense, et.al. who populate these forums in the absence of any real treatments.

 

[Chronumbra]

To be fair to Ben, as much as this is of course his business - and all videos are marketing efforts for it - I genuinely get the impression that he does want to help sufferers, has studied tinnitus, gets the severities and conditions, keeps up to date with latest trends - and posts success videos to help show tinnitus sufferers that there are people that can get loud tinnitus and still make a life for themselves.

If only we had more audiologists and 'tinnitus specialists' as interested in the condition and future treatment, rather than 'just' pushing hearing aids for $$$ and TRT based on Jastrepratts protocols.

I get what you're saying, and I can understand the concept of selling these treatments as a means for him to thrive and for his services to continue being offered.

It is a different thing entirely when we see "Black Friday Sale!" and "Cyber Monday Sale!" plastered on therapeutics for a debilitating medical condition. It just reeks of commodifying and commercializing the desperation of those suffering from a medical condition in order to extract maximum profit. This behavior is a red flag and makes it hard for me to trust the person behind it.

 

[Nick47]

keeps up to date with latest trends - and posts success videos to help show tinnitus sufferers that there are people that can get loud tinnitus and still make a life for themselves.

No @DeanD, he posts this to get views.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

I was going to hold off on posting this, but figured I'd go ahead and do it now.



When I got back from the complete failure Korea treatment, I was looking everywhere for answers on what was going on. I came across this video from TrebleHealth, and actually reached out to the guy who was in this video. Found him on LinkedIn, called his job, he called me and spoke to me on the phone in several different occasions.

Being very skeptical of him telling me that he cured his severe tinnitus and hyperacusis with diet, I knew something else was going on here.

Well he sent me his book he wrote, and on several different pages he mentions he took Clonazepam multiple times in the past. Well long story short, this guy began taking up to 3 mg of Klonopin a day when he got tinnitus in his left ear. He then stated it became extreme tinnitus and hyperacusis after this. I am positive he was paradoxical on this drug, like I was.

I then reached out to him and asked him what his tinnitus sounded like after he started taking Klonopin... I said was it a loud electrical buzz coming from the center of your head? He said "yes, how did you know"?

Because that is exactly the sound that I experienced after taking Klonopin for about 4 months. It is an awful, chemical searing hissing noise that is not possible to get other than from a benzo. I stupidly thought that the sounds in my head were because of a car alarm , and it wasn't until 6 months of taking it that @ErnieMassri most likely saved my life saying it was the damn Klonopin.

So basically this guy did get tinnitus in his ear, it most likely went away naturally while on Clonazepam, and then "cured" his tinnitus and hyperacusis by getting off Clonazepam.

I even told him that Clonazepam was most likely the cause of his "extreme" tinnitus, but he said no way, he had had tinnitus for many months after withdrawing from Clonazepam. Well, yes... it doesn't just go away immediately.

My buzzing tinnitus has reduced about 75-80% in 2 months since stopping Klonopin, and I hope this trend continues. Unfortunately I have severe hyperacusis in my right ear, where I had a pre-existing tone, that is going crazy because of the hyperacusis.

Diet may have been a small factor in helping his hyperacusis, but he most certainly got his head buzzing tinnitus and hyperacusis while in tolerance/paradoxical on Klonopin.

I should add that this guy is REALLY NICE. By no means should anyone reach out to him or comment on that video saying what I have revealed here. But he is in complete denial that Klonopin had anything to do with his tinnitus, when I am almost positive it is the sole cause.

I think it's comical that Ben Thompson made a whole episode on him.

 

[Nick47]

I wish Treble Health would disappear. They appear in every YouTube or Google search. I want them to fcuk off for good!

 

[Stuart-T]

I was going to hold off on posting this, but figured I'd go ahead and do it now.

When I got back from the complete failure Korea treatment, I was looking everywhere for answers on what was going on. I came across this video from TrebleHealth, and actually reached out to the guy who was in this video. Found him on LinkedIn, called his job, he called me and spoke to me on the phone in several different occasions.

Being very skeptical of him telling me that he cured his severe tinnitus and hyperacusis with diet, I knew something else was going on here.

Well he sent me his book he wrote, and on several different pages he mentions he took Clonazepam multiple times in the past. Well long story short, this guy began taking up to 3 mg of Klonopin a day when he got tinnitus in his left ear. He then stated it became extreme tinnitus and hyperacusis after this. I am positive he was paradoxical on this drug, like I was.

I then reached out to him and asked him what his tinnitus sounded like after he started taking Klonopin... I said was it a loud electrical buzz coming from the center of your head? He said "yes, how did you know"?

Because that is exactly the sound that I experienced after taking Klonopin for about 4 months. It is an awful, chemical searing hissing noise that is not possible to get other than from a benzo. I stupidly thought that the sounds in my head were because of a car alarm , and it wasn't until 6 months of taking it that @ErnieMassri most likely saved my life saying it was the damn Klonopin.

So basically this guy did get tinnitus in his ear, it most likely went away naturally while on Clonazepam, and then "cured" his tinnitus and hyperacusis by getting off Clonazepam.

I even told him that Clonazepam was most likely the cause of his "extreme" tinnitus, but he said no way, he had had tinnitus for many months after withdrawing from Clonazepam. Well, yes... it doesn't just go away immediately.

My buzzing tinnitus has reduced about 75-80% in 2 months since stopping Klonopin, and I hope this trend continues. Unfortunately I have severe hyperacusis in my right ear, where I had a pre-existing tone, that is going crazy because of the hyperacusis.

Diet may have been a small factor in helping his hyperacusis, but he most certainly got his head buzzing tinnitus and hyperacusis while in tolerance/paradoxical on Klonopin.

I should add that this guy is REALLY NICE. By no means should anyone reach out to him or comment on that video saying what I have revealed here. But he is in complete denial that Klonopin had anything to do with his tinnitus, when I am almost positive it is the sole cause.

I think it's comical that Ben Thompson made a whole episode on him.

Thanks for that useful story.

I think you have reached correct conclusions. I would only say that if you are asking someone what their tinnitus sounds like because you want to know if it is like yours - it is best not to give them the answer. Let them describe - then compare your experience.

I have huge doubts whether diet can significantly impact on tinnitus levels - not just based on my own experience but from all the research I have done etc. No science supports it as far as I am aware and yes, in his case, his diet changes co-incided with him withdrawing from drug use. Let him start taking the drugs again and keep to his new diet and see what happens.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

Thanks for that useful story.

I think you have reached correct conclusions. I would only say that if you are asking someone what their tinnitus sounds like because you want to know if it is like yours - it is best not to give them the answer. Let them describe - then compare your experience.

I have huge doubts whether diet can significantly impact on tinnitus levels - not just based on my own experience but from all the research I have done etc. No science supports it as far as I am aware and yes, in his case, his diet changes co-incided with him withdrawing from drug use. Let him start taking the drugs again and keep to his new diet and see what happens.

That's how the conversation went over the phone.

Correspondence through email was:

What did your tinnitus sound like at its worst? Was it an electrical atonal sound? Buzz? Centered in the ears or the head?

My tinnitus at the worst was a very, very loud electrical buzz in the center of the head

But yea, I am almost sure of it the way mine sounds, is receding, and how it progressed on Klonopin.

This hyperacusis is fucking everything up though. I could have almost written a success story.

 

[gameover]

One look at that Ben Thompson's character face should tell you everything - snake oil salesman with a face of snake.

I hate I keep seeing snaky face all the time on YouTube now after searching for tinnitus maskers and such.

 

[DenverCO]

This is a terribly misguided attack. I have worked with this group and they have hands down been the best thing I've found. They are not charlatans, they have a caring team that I appreciate greatly. Treble Health has been a better resource than anything I've found by a mile. Yes, it's a business. They have audiologists that need to get paid. Promotions are business. AND they have a plethora of FREE YouTube videos out there. I'm sorry you've become so bitter. I have those days too. But please, there are better places to levy attacks.

 

[2noist]

This is a terribly misguided attack. I have worked with this group and they have hands down been the best thing I've found. They are not charlatans, they have a caring team that I appreciate greatly. Treble Health has been a better resource than anything I've found by a mile. Yes, it's a business. They have audiologists that need to get paid. Promotions are business. AND they have a plethora of FREE YouTube videos out there. I'm sorry you've become so bitter. I have those days too. But please, there are better places to levy attacks.

You know... even the worst charlatans have their supporters! Kool-Aid is strong. "Free" YouTube videos don't make up for their predatory solicitation and expensive quackery.

 

[DenverCO]

I hate people who profit from others in need, that happens a lot with people struggling with health conditions.

I guess that covers every doctor and every pharmaceutical company everywhere. :/

You know... even the worst charlatans have their supporters! Kool-Aid is strong. "Free" YouTube videos don't make up for their predatory solicitation and expensive quackery.

What a condescending statement.

 

[Stuart-T]

This is a terribly misguided attack. I have worked with this group and they have hands down been the best thing I've found. They are not charlatans, they have a caring team that I appreciate greatly. Treble Health has been a better resource than anything I've found by a mile. Yes, it's a business. They have audiologists that need to get paid. Promotions are business. AND they have a plethora of FREE YouTube videos out there. I'm sorry you've become so bitter. I have those days too. But please, there are better places to levy attacks.

Please elaborate. I have been following his videos and he does some good reviews of various products. Yes, if you want consultations, that does cost money, though from what I understand, he mostly helps you develop a program towards habituation.

 

[Nick47]

What do Treble Health offer that a high street audiologist doesn't?

1) CBT
2) Hearing aids
3) Playing sound through hearing aids

They are going nowhere and have nothing to offer that a regular audiology/tinnitus clinic doesn't.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

This is a terribly misguided attack. I have worked with this group and they have hands down been the best thing I've found. They are not charlatans, they have a caring team that I appreciate greatly. Treble Health has been a better resource than anything I've found by a mile. Yes, it's a business. They have audiologists that need to get paid. Promotions are business. AND they have a plethora of FREE YouTube videos out there. I'm sorry you've become so bitter. I have those days too. But please, there are better places to levy attacks.

We now have (according to a number of YouTube postings) the official association of the trifecta of stooges: Jastreboff, Ben Thompson, and Julian Cowan Hill.

Are you aware that in three videos Hill has actually stated that, if you write the word "HATE" on a piece of white tape and affix it to the outside of a steel cooker, the alleged "force" contained in the word will penetrate the 1/4'' steel and adversely affect the molecular structure of whatever is contained within the cooker (the examples he gives are rice and ice)? Conversely, he also said that writing the word "LOVE" will send its "force" through the steel and "improve" the molecular structure of whatever is contained within.

I am assuming that, if I am aware of this, then so are the other two stooges (and hence their tacit endorsement.)

Please be advised that Tinnitus Talk attempts to be scientifically respectable and such advocacy of the abovementioned delusional idiocies is not appreciated.

 

[just1morething]

They are all looking for volume times markup from desperate people. Potentially large sales because of millions of tinnitus sufferers.