Treble Health: Exploitation of Tinnitus Sufferers

[bobvann]

Awwwww. Doogie has a fan how cute

 

[Stuart-T]

His channel is quite popular attracting 800,000 views per month. I have a YouTube channel (not tinnitus related) and make $100 per month on 50,000 views a month. I think his channel produces maybe $2,000-$3,000 per month. That's fair enough - he is a YouTuber and costs the viewers nothing.

 

[Matchbox]

But is TRT considered snake oil? He quite often says it's not necessary to buy markers and that TRT doesn't work for everyone. It's just the only 'official' thing to try at the moment. Quite a few people on here claim TRT has worked for them. I'm not sure myself because I originally healed from hyperacusis over the same 18 months without TRT but hey, whatever works for people or even gives them hope.

TRT is white noise at home and gradually getting used to your tinnitus, no matter what.

So, snake oil.

 

[Ryan Scott]

His channel is quite popular attracting 800,000 views per month. I have a YouTube channel (not tinnitus related) and make $100 per month on 50,000 views a month. I think his channel produces maybe $2,000-$3,000 per month. That's fair enough - he is a YouTuber and costs the viewers nothing.

Yeah, the YouTube space isn't necessarily lucrative in the tinnitus field due to the community only being so big lol. $3,000 a month almost isn't worth it for a business considering the time and effort you have to put into making a video.

 

[Stuart-T]

Yeah, the YouTube space isn't necessarily lucrative in the tinnitus field due to the community only being so big lol. $3,000 a month almost isn't worth it for a business considering the time and effort you have to put into making a video.

$3,000 for spending maybe 6 hours a month making videos. I disagree - that is good money. Most of the videos he does is just in front of a camera talking so there is very little production time involved.

 

[Fightthearmy]

I don't particularly like Ben Thompson, because he claims sound therapy can cure tinnitus, and his consultations are ridiculously priced.

There's really not much substance behind this "x can benefit from y" and "x can respond very well to y" claptrap (pay us and you can find out!), and saying how adaptive the brain is. So tinnitus can respond well to any sound therapy or new-age diet etc. It can also spontaneously get better on its own, whatever you choose to eat.

Did I mention Ben Thompson is also a specialist on reactive tinnitus?

Reactive tinnitus, sometimes referred to as tinnitus-induced hyperacusis or sound-sensitive tinnitus, occurs from changes in the brain that affect the way neurons inhibit or increase activity in response to various stimuli. The condition is rare, since most forms of tinnitus don't typically fluctuate or worsen based on external sounds.

Reactive tinnitus refers to tinnitus that changes in loudness, pitch or quality in response to average or even low-level sounds. The resulting tinnitus can be more distressing and cause discomfort or pain. Sometimes this is also referred to as tinnitus-induced hyperacusis or sound-sensitive tinnitus. Reactive tinnitus occurs from changes in the brain that affect the way that auditory neurons inhibit or increase activity for different sound stimuli that enter the system. Fortunately, these changes are not permanent. There's nothing permanently broken in your system. The brain is very adaptive and therefore can respond very well to therapies or treatments. True reactive tinnitus is quite rare, as most kinds of tinnitus don't worsen with the presence of external sounds. It's very important to not self-diagnose yourself with reactive tinnitus. because if it only happens occasionally or mildly, then you don't want to put yourself in the bucket of 'I have reactive tinnitus, sound therapy won't work for me, nothing's gonna work for me'. First of all, it's not even necessarily true, but it's also just important to be mindful of self-diagnosing yourself with a certain condition.

The matter of self-diagnosing is entirely irrelevant. What research exactly is Ben Thompson referring to which claims that people who experience an increase in tinnitus after listening to hours of music at a reasonable volume are rare? Also, what is the nature of his relationship to Julian Cowan Hill and his love labels?

 

[gameover]

I have noticed Ben Thompson and many other audiologists and tinnitus cure experts claim they also have tinnitus. I am not saying they do not - but it could be easily claimed and not be true.

Ah, yes. I saw another snake oil salesman, a local one, Brian Fligor. After spending good time discussing options, i.e. Lenire, hearing aids, and TRT, steering me towards the last (probably most profitable - he could always try to sell me Lenire later), he innocently slipped "I have tinnitus, too". That was like 50 minutes into (second) the appointment. I did not believe him, it was obvious it was a blatant lie to win sympathy from him and make him more trustworthy.

I met a bunch of other people with tinnitus, including another audiologist, Dr. Stephane Maison. It was just obvious he was telling the truth.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I never had anything against Ben Thompson, but I just received a marketing email from him downplaying Susan Shore's device compared to his own service. His email claims that only 30% of people have somatic tinnitus, which I am sure is roughly right for people that have tinnitus from neck issues, but he knows very well that the ability to modulate tinnitus noises via face and neck is more like 80% which is what Shore is referring to in her study.

He passed straight through from aggressively commercial to fundamentally disingenuous and misleading.

 

[gameover]

I never had anything against Ben Thompson, but I just received a marketing email from him downplaying Susan Shore's device compared to his own service. His email claims that only 30% of people have somatic tinnitus, which I am sure is roughly right for people that have tinnitus from neck issues, but he knows very well that the ability to modulate tinnitus noises via face and neck is more like 80% which is what Shore is referring to in her study.

He passed straight through from aggressively commercial to fundamentally disingenuous and misleading.

What a vicious snake.

This is also a sign that they fear Dr. Shore's device may be effective enough to make a dent in their regular snake oil offerings sales. Maybe it is a good sign after all. But as usual - you will have evil people trying to damage a helpful thing. Because greed. Their support will depend on what cut Auricle will let them have.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

I never had anything against Ben Thompson, but I just received a marketing email from him downplaying Susan Shore's device compared to his own service. His email claims that only 30% of people have somatic tinnitus, which I am sure is roughly right for people that have tinnitus from neck issues, but he knows very well that the ability to modulate tinnitus noises via face and neck is more like 80% which is what Shore is referring to in her study.

He passed straight through from aggressively commercial to fundamentally disingenuous and misleading.

I find it odd that he has only mentioned her device once or twice in all of his "tinnitus cure???!!??!!" videos.

Can you share a screenshot of the email you got?

 

[AfroSnowman]

Can you share a screenshot of the email you got?

Happy Sunday!

I hope this email finds you in good health and high spirits. As always, I am dedicated to keeping you informed about the latest advancements in tinnitus treatment, and today I have some news to share.

Recently, the University of Michigan released a new study on a new form of bimodal stimulation for patients with somatosensory tinnitus, a type of tinnitus that can be modulated by neck, jaw, or head movements. The study, which focused on 99 participants carefully selected based on their ability to modulate their tinnitus, revealed some hopeful findings.

What percentage of individuals have tinnitus caused by somatosensory conditions? Well, based on a clinical study from ENT physician Dr. Golenhofen in Germany, somatic tinnitus accounts for approximately one-third of all tinnitus cases.

For patients with somatic tinnitus, this protocol from the University of Michigan study has shown potential for providing relief, with an average Tinnitus Functional Index (TFI) reduction of 17 points after three months, positively impacting 65% of the subjects.

I would like to explain Treble Health's internal research on the success of our program. In our own internal study, we assessed treatment outcomes using the TFI, involving 247 patients who embarked on our program. Our results were excellent:

• Our patients showed an average reduction of 20 points after three months, and a reduction of 25 points after six months of our program, almost double the clinically significant level established by independent researchers.
• 75% of the participants experienced a clinically significant reduction in tinnitus after six months of our program.
• We anticipate even better outcomes as we continue to measure TFI reduction at 12- and 18-months post-treatment.

 

[Stayinghopeful]

I would like to explain Treble Health's internal research on the success of our program. In our own internal study, we assessed treatment outcomes using the TFI, involving 247 patients who embarked on our program. Our results were excellent:

• Our patients showed an average reduction of 20 points after three months, and a reduction of 25 points after six months of our program, almost double the clinically significant level established by independent researchers.
• 75% of the participants experienced a clinically significant reduction in tinnitus after six months of our program.
• We anticipate even better outcomes as we continue to measure TFI reduction at 12- and 18-months post-treatment.

247 patients hand-picked most likely to respond to their program (doesn't state average starting TFI score).

A reduction of 20 points after the first 3 months, then only a further reduction of 5 points in the following 3 months?

I know Ben Thompson is trying to run a business so I understand his marketing, but his hearing aid sales and stupid face on the thumbnails annoy me and turn me away from his content at times.

 

[Nick47]

The arsehole has a financial relationship with Lenire too. What's his next job? Offering milk thistle extract and CBT to people suffering from pancreatic cancer? He has a few good videos to pump up the viewing numbers but at the core he has nothing to offer that a high street audiologist doesn't.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

I know Ben Thompson is trying to run a business so I understand his marketing, but his hearing aid sales and stupid face on the thumbnails annoy me and turn me away from his content at times.

You are correct: his face alone is enough to make anyone seriously question the import contained within the 649 videos he has posted on YouTube (and interestingly, very few have garnered any significant number of views.)

Notice that he apparently does not dare to make an appearance on Tinnitus Talk (recall how Julian Cowan Hill was kicked off for trying to make this a Free Advertising Site).

We all should consider doing this:

If he is so confident about his Methods, then let's all E-Mail him the following Gentlemen's/Gentlewomen's Proposition:

If any of us receives the abovementioned reductions as indicated, we will pay him twice the initial agreed amount and be (for free) active shills on his behalf all over on every Posting Site we can find; If we receive no improvement, then he will agree that we pay nothing.

I'll bet he disappears faster than I do when my wife mentions a handyman job that needs getting done around the house.

 

[momus]

I occasionally watch YouTube videos for things that interest me. Mostly darkroom/alternative film based techniques and eBikes. They're all definitely a mixed bag. Some are on the money, others are not very good.

Going to YouTube for health advice is firmly in the "not good" category, regardless of whose video it is. Most of the videos have lots and lots of misinformation and stuff that is just plain wrong, along w/ the inevitable sales pitch towards the end.

I prefer to look at actual medical studies and filter them by who is funding them, what the protocols are for patient selection, length of the studies, etc. Then I lay it all out and see what it points to.

In the post above that shows the email, there are two smoking guns: "247 patients hand-picked most likely to respond to their program" and "A reduction of 20 points after the first 3 months". Whoa! So they hand picked the people to begin with rather than having a cross section of people, and the sentence "A reduction of 20 points after the first 3 months" tells us nothing, or at least nothing that is meaningful in any way. How many of those patents had the "20 point reduction", whatever the heck that is? Quite a scientific term there, LOL.

Very low quality snake oil here.

 

[Karl S.]

Wow, there is a lot of attack here. I have decided to see what Treble Health can do for me. I got a quick appointment with one of their audiologists, and she was quite qualified. She did not try to sell me anything and said she could use my current Oticon hearing aids. It is TRT.

Doctors cost money. I don't think $150 for a 45-minute consult/treatment session is out of line. You put on a sale to get someone who's on the fence to bite.

I'll find out if it works. It's the only thing out there right now. Everything else is "under study" or theoretical.

And name-calling never helps. Too much hate in the world.

 

[Varda]

Treble Health started coming up a lot on my YouTube recommendations when I started searching for tinnitus-related videos.

I could tell in the first 5 seconds of watching that Ben Thompson is a scam artist and a sociopath from his body language and the way he talks.

I immediately blocked the channel so I would never have to see his face again.

 

[IYIiKe]

Unironically, I do believe that Ben Thompson has had hyperacusis; his face has hallmarks of Williams syndrome.

 

[Maple]

Treble Health claims to offer a "no risk" money-back guarantee. However, in my experience, the only true "no risk" programs are those where you pay only after treatment if it proves effective. If it doesn't work, you owe nothing. Once you've given any entity your money or credit card information, you risk losing that amount—in this case, $5,000. So, the "no risk" claim is an immediate red flag. There's no guarantee that they will refund your money if the treatment fails, making the "no risk" promise misleading.

Ben, could you comment on this?

 

[DaveFromChicago]

Treble Health claims to offer a "no risk" money-back guarantee. However, in my experience, the only true "no risk" programs are those where you pay only after treatment if it proves effective. If it doesn't work, you owe nothing. Once you've given any entity your money or credit card information, you risk losing that amount—in this case, $5,000. So, the "no risk" claim is an immediate red flag. There's no guarantee that they will refund your money if the treatment fails, making the "no risk" promise misleading.

Ben, could you comment on this?

Do you want to know how utterly unprofessional and dishonest Ben Thompson is?

My ENT doctor informed me that a lifetime of migraines has likely exhausted my brain to the point where the so-called TRT "therapy" would not be beneficial, no matter how sincerely and diligently I tried. It would be like attempting to run a 10k race with half the cartilage missing from both knees.

I posted this several times on Ben Thompson's YouTube channel, and each time, he has shadowbanned and erased my comments. He seems determined to censor and suppress any recognition of new medical discoveries that call the feasibility of TRT into question. Beware that @Michael Leigh and other TRT proponents are also inexcusably guilty in this regard. This is one of the main reasons I'm no longer active; I couldn't tolerate such obstinate, anti-scientific obtuseness. @Michael Leigh exhibits about as much intellectual progress as you would expect from watching a hamster on a wheel.

I always suspected that Auricle would ultimately be regarded as just another highly touted piece of unreconstructed placebo junk. Auricle's defenders remind me of how the Jehovah's Witnesses predicted the end of the world on three occasions. When it obviously did not happen, their fallback excuse was that it might occur within five days or 500 years—they just didn't know when.

But the real indication of Auricle's failure came from realizing that Dr. Shore, whose PhD thesis was submitted in 1976, must be at least in her mid-70s. She seems to have no qualms about the fact that her work may never achieve market readiness during her lifetime.

I am 70 now, and my seemingly permanent tinnitus reminds me of the situation in the first Alien movie: no matter what the crew did, they could not eject that hideous creature from the spaceship. My tinnitus has so relentlessly besieged me this summer that I sought out a psychiatrist, who prescribed an antidepressant with a copay (even with Blue Cross Rx coverage) of $450.00 for 21 capsules. The drug did nothing more than make me violently ill; in fact, it aggravated my tinnitus so much that I could barely hear outside sounds.

I now wish I had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer; the question of suicide would have been resolved, and I would have been given mega doses of painkillers in my final days that would thankfully dull my capacity to appreciate just how unbearably monstrous this condition is.

 

[Bob3382]

Treble Health is a total joke, a bunch of salesmen offering what any VA offers: masking that works for 5% of tinnitus sufferers.

 

[Michael Leigh]

The arsehole has a financial relationship with Lenire too. What's his next job? Offering milk thistle extract and CBT to people suffering from pancreatic cancer? He has a few good videos to pump up the viewing numbers but at the core he has nothing to offer that a high street audiologist doesn't.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. I have watched some of the Treble Health videos, and I believe their main priority is business and making money out of people suffering from this distressing condition. Ben Thompson comes across as very smooth. He gives the impression he can cure tinnitus or at least reduce it to a level where it's no longer bothersome.

 

[bobvann]

Doogie Howser-looking motherfucker! Ben Thompson deleted my YouTube comment and the link that was posted here in regards to TRT vs. Standard of Care.

 

[Ivano_m]

Doogie Howser-looking motherfucker! Ben Thompson deleted my YouTube comment and the link that was posted here in regards to TRT vs. Standard of Care.

Keep in mind that YouTube itself either deletes or shadowbans comments that contain links. Obviously, I'm not trying to justify Treble Health with this. If it was him or his staff who deleted the comment, it would be despicable.

 

[Nick47]

Ben Thompson is a complete and utter charlatan, along with Dr. Cliff Olson. A pair of disgusting plonkers.

 

[Mike Francis]

Great thread. I've come across all three of these sources of information and value them for that. However, like with many treatment options, I neither have the time nor the money to "go on any journey" with them. Finding what works for you seems to be the only solution.

So far, what works for me has been sound therapy, meditation, and avoiding stress. While these aren't cures, they help make my reaction to tinnitus more manageable.

Businesses, both online and face-to-face, seem to need to offer a lot of free content as part of their business model, and I wonder if businesses that don't do this can survive. I also agree that finding what works can be difficult, especially when you have to filter out aggressive, exploitative marketing based on dubious science.

 

[Karl S.]

Well, I'm back. What Treble Health did for me was provide coping skills I hadn't heard of before. Using these skills helped me manage my condition better. My takeaway is that their approach is beneficial for people with realistic expectations.

From my research, I knew there is no cure. If you expect one, you'll be disappointed. One of their sound therapy products has shown promise and has been approved as a treatment by the FDA, though I can't remember what it's called. I know Ohio State University has a place that offers it.

I suspect that most of the negative comments here come from people who have never used Treble Health. I don't understand why anyone would take those opinions seriously.

Anyway, that's my experience. I no longer use Treble Health because they reached the limit of what they could do for me. My audiologist even advised me to stop, which doesn't sound like a hard sell to me.

I'm a satisfied customer, and no, I am not a bot, nor have I received anything in exchange for this post.

— Karl S.