Two Loud Petrol Power Scythes. Really Worried.

[Jiri]

Hello everyone,

I am in a state of a difficult psychiatric drug withdrawal (stopped taking my antidepressant about a week ago, am tapering off from a higher dose of Clonazepam after many months of nonstop use, then Pregabalin).

I usually fall asleep (if you can call it that) at around 5 a.m. Today, early morning, I got woken up by two loud petrol power scythes right under my bedroom window. They kept going for about an hour. It took me a while before I catapulted myself out of bed (heard it in my sleep, thought I was still dreaming), looking for a shelter and ear defenders.

I'm guessing I was exposed to the very unpleasantly loud sound levels without protection for about 45 minutes.

Could that have caused any further hearing damage now??

Thank you.

Jiri

 

[RingerBell]

I usually fall asleep (if you can call it that) at around 5 a.m. Today, early morning, I got woken up by two loud petrol power scythes right under my bedroom window. They kept going for about an hour. It took me a while before I catapulted myself out of bed (heard it in my sleep, thought I was still dreaming), looking for a shelter and ear defenders.

I think those have sound power level between 110db(A)-120db(A). So it depends how far were you and did you have your windows open.

 

[dfw]

I would have to opin that if you were exposed to sound levels above 80ish, it would wake you up. Especially for an extended period of time.

Windows closed, provide excellent sound protection, 1/8 up to 1/4". In fact a good double pane window can provide somewhere in 25% reduction range. So even if the levels were high, I'm sure your actual exposure was to a lot lower level.

 

[dpdx]

Terrible. I think you will be fine, you were not outside, also how close is your bed to the windows? It so sad how people suffer with this disease. It feels like my life ended last year, this is now mere survival. Why the hell aren't people educated on this condition? This is truly something out of a nightmare. In university we took some stupid classes we were required to take like art evaluation, why the hell weren't we required to take a health class so we know about our ears/body, and this condition. People need to understand this Tinnitus/Hyperacusis is not a small thing, it is not a headache, stomach ache, etc it is a major condition which mentally destroys an individual and gets him other health conditions such as visual snow, high blood pressure, insomnia, etc.

 

[GregCA]

I think those have sound power level between 110db(A)-120db(A).

Remember that quoting a loudness level in decibels without specifying the distance is useless. 110 dB at 3 cm and 110 dB at one meter represents orders of magnitude in differences of power.

So it depends how far were you and did you have your windows open.

See, the distance is important, but you won't be able to compute the dB perceived at that distance unless you know the original distance for your own measurement as well.

Find a calculator here: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

 

[Wolfears]

Hello everyone,

I am in a state of a difficult psychiatric drug withdrawal (stopped taking my antidepressant about a week ago, am tapering off from a higher dose of Clonazepam after many months of nonstop use, then Pregabalin).

I usually fall asleep (if you can call it that) at around 5 a.m. Today, early morning, I got woken up by two loud petrol power scythes right under my bedroom window. They kept going for about an hour. It took me a while before I catapulted myself out of bed (heard it in my sleep, thought I was still dreaming), looking for a shelter and ear defenders.

I'm guessing I was exposed to the very unpleasantly loud sound levels without protection for about 45 minutes.

Could that have caused any further hearing damage now??

Thank you.

Jiri
View attachment 19432

Considering that there was some distance and barrier (wall and a window) in between you and these things, they won't be able to do any damage..you were probably exposed to 50 decibels at the most.

 

[RingerBell]

Remember that quoting a loudness level in decibels without specifying the distance is useless. 110 dB at 3 cm and 110 dB at one meter represents orders of magnitude in differences of power.



See, the distance is important, but you won't be able to compute the dB perceived at that distance unless you know the original distance for your own measurement as well.

Find a calculator here: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

I said that these have sound power level around 110dba-120dba. Sound power (level) is a property of the sound source, and it's not distance-dependent. And this value can be often found from the specifications. If we know the distance from the source and the sound power level of the source, then we can calculate the sound pressure level at that distance. Sound pressure level is distance-dependent. Both are quoted in decibels.

There was no information about the distance, so I simply quoted the sound power level, and that the distance etc. is needed to approximate the sound pressure level that @Jiri was exposed to.

 

[GregCA]

I said that these have sound power level around 110dba-120dba. Sound power (level) is a property of the sound source, and it's not distance-dependent. And this value can be often found from the specifications. If we know the distance from the source and the sound power level of the source, then we can calculate the sound pressure level at that distance. Sound pressure level is distance-dependent. Both are quoted in decibels.

There was no information about the distance, so I simply quoted the sound power level, and that the distance etc. is needed to approximate the sound pressure level that @Jiri was exposed to.

It's not random though: when we don't quote a distance, it "seems to work out" to be about 28 cm. Sometimes that's what we mean to say intentionally, but most times (as it is in this case) it's not: it's because the speaker doesn't know.
See http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-soundpower.htm - in particular this part:

It is little known that the sound power level (without (!) distance r) is the same as the sound pressure level and the sound intensity level at full sphere propagation (Q = 1) at a distance from the sound source r = 0.2821 m.
​

We cannot compute the dB levels that someone was exposed to at a given distance if we don't use the first radius (~28 cm) in the computation (see my previous post). Now that we know what to input as first radius, we can tell him what he can expect to be exposed to at his radius (assuming all "perfect spherical radiation", which is never the case of course, but good enough approximation).

 

[Jiri]

Thanks for the support everyone. Much appreciated. It's all I've got these days.

@dpdx Right on with the education at schools. It feels like you always need to be on the lookout for raised 'levels of boom' wherever you go/are now. A truly debilitating 'symptom'.

To explain, when I opened my eyes I was still in a 'mind awake body asleep' state. I intitially thought they were cutting down trees or smth (these things are freaking loud). Then panic, so you run around trying to figure out what's actually going on whilst looking for ear defenders and where to hide. Then I saw one of the guys right below my window while the other one was further away. @RingerBell The distance. I'd say 5 - 7 meters? @dfw I checked and yes, it is a double pane window but really an old school one (think 25+ yrs' old). Not sure how much sound protection that gives you but since I've got hyperacusis everything sounds very loud. Can't tell anymore what's still ok and what's loud without a certified ANSI S1.4 dB meter. 80 dB, it is possible.

Considering that there was some distance and barrier (wall and a window) in between you and these things, they won't be able to do any damage..you were probably exposed to 50 decibels at the most.

I trully hope so. It's also possible that my w/d and raised stress levels to the max. was what really did me in.

Oh, btw. Later today I had some pain in my left ear (TTTS?) and when washing dishes a plate had to ofc slip outta my hand and straight into a metal sink. So now I'm finished. Just waiting for the spike to come. With so many chemicals inside my body, I never know how long it's going to take until it hits me. 2,3 or 4 days from now?

A terrible, terrible day for me..

 

[Mystery Reader]

I trully hope so. It's also possible that my w/d and raised stress levels to the max. was what really did me in.

@Jiri
First, let me say how sorry I am about the events of the day. We are constantly learning the number of things that can cause stress with this condition. I totally get your concern. I'm going to guess, though, that your current w/d and stress levels will play into any spike that may (or may not!) occur, and that further damage may not have happened. It sounds like there was decent protection between yourself and the machinery, although I know I would be anxious about it, as well, so I understand where you're coming from. The anxiety component of this thing can sometimes make it hard to get a handle on it -- at least it does for me. In terms of the dish incident -- this next may seem an extreme suggestion to some, but considering the amount of anxiety and stress this caused for you, have you considered using something like paper plates and disposable cutlery, at least while you get through this part of it? Even temporarily removing a known stressor might help in some way. There are enough things out there that we can't control -- maybe a change as minor as this while you adjust might help. I don't know. Some might call it a form of overprotection or taking a step toward phonophobia and perhaps that's true, but it might be worth considering as a stopgap until you have calmed down a bit. I know there are days when I have to set everything down on a folded dish towel to muffle some of the sound of the item hitting the counter -- other days I don't have to. I know eventually I will have to get used to it, but if doing that relieves some of the stress of a bad day, then that's what I need to do. Please let us know how you are doing -- you're in my thoughts.

Mystery Reader

 

[Ed209]

Hi @Jiri, try not to let this get to you. It's seems highly unlikely - from your description of events - that you'd attain any damage from what you experienced. You were indoors behind a brick wall (possibly insulation?) and many other materials. The deadening affect on the sound would be quite dramatic, and then when you factor in the distance as well, it's not likely to have been dangerous in my opinion.

I would say your hyperacusis, and concern about noise (understandably), has heightened your perception to it somewhat.

The important thing now is not to let this rule your thoughts.

 

[RingerBell]

The distance. I'd say 5 - 7 meters?

You can some calculator like this to estimate the sound pressure level hitting your window. They probably weren't so close for the whole time?

 

[RingerBell]

See http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-soundpower.htm

The stuff in the link pretty much confirms what I said above. Sound power is distance independent. Sound pressure is distance dependent.

We cannot compute the dB levels that someone was exposed to at a given distance if we don't use the first radius (~28 cm) in the computation (see my previous post). Now that we know what to input as first radius, we can tell him what he can expect to be exposed to at his radius (assuming all "perfect spherical radiation", which is never the case of course, but good enough approximation).

We don't really need to know value at that (28cm) point. That's just where these two quantities have the same db value. You can use the formula to approximate the sound power level from sound pressure level measured from 1m for example (sound power level ~11db higher). Or you can use the "6db reduction as distance doubles"- rule from this point on to to approximate the sound pressure level at some point further away.

And as far as I know, measurements should not be done very close to the source. Very close to the source (less than few wavelenghts of the lowest frequency), the sound field can be instable.

 

[GregCA]

The stuff in the link pretty much confirms what I said above. Sound power is distance independent. Sound pressure is distance dependent.



We don't really need to know value at that (28cm) point. That's just where these two quantities have the same db value. You can use the formula to approximate the sound power level from sound pressure level measured from 1m for example (sound power level ~11db higher). Or you can use the "6db reduction as distance doubles"- rule from this point on to to approximate the sound pressure level at some point further away.

And as far as I know, measurements should not be done very close to the source. Very close to the source (less than few wavelenghts of the lowest frequency), the sound field can be instable.

I think we're saying the same thing. In other words, I agree with you.

 

[Jiri]

Hey guys, reporting live 4:05 am here... t. spiking, stressed out. The one good thing (among many others) on this forum is that I don't have to explain what a t. spike or tinnitus is like to others. Explaining to healthy ppl, I just gave up.

Actually, I tried to play the other day 11 kHz sine wave to one of my friends so that he gets some idea... didn't realize it's gonna affect me more than him cuz it was at 75 dB at then I began thinking to myself, if these frequency sounds on youtube can't worsen or replace the sound of our own tinnitus... and there you have it, another thing to stress yourself about

Hi @Mystery Reader thanks for responding. Always a pleasure to hear from you.

We are constantly learning the number of things that can cause stress with this condition.

Precisely, just named one above and I totally get what you're saying with replacing my dishes with paper plates and disposable cutlery. I thought about that, then my ENT said 'No.' and so did some other members on here - it'd be some form of a setback. When I think about it, you could be correct in that there was some decent protection between me and the machinery. Still, it felt like I woke to the middle of a concert or smth. I just freaked out so bad. Then you can't stop thinking about it, you're throwing ideas around in your head trying to take into consideration absolutely everything. Now I think if I just let go off it earlier on and stopped obsessing over it so much, I'd have been much better off right now. It is very possible that the drugs I'm still taking + my anxiety levels did their own thing that gave me a super headache a little later and now t. spike. Constantly in fight or flight mode. Then dropping the plate, to top it all. That was it... You know when they say 'ignorance is bliss'? I think in my initial tinnitus stages the one thing my doctors might have been well right about was, when they told me to stop reading all the tinnitus oriented literature and info related stuff from the net. I was like a sponge, absorbing it all. Back then I didn't know what 'tinnitus spike or even things like permanent tinnitus spikes were.' Then throw in the mix the very sad stories of other t. sufferers, my psych. drugs, constant debates about protecting and overprotecting resulting in no clear conclusion ever, and you get a perfect recipe for a disaster. I am mentally unstable now. I have ever been since I got t. and h. but now during my w/d. Phew. Words can't describe. Then this pharmacist tells you that she's worried about a rebound effect once I'm off of all the meds (which was my wish) and wants you to switch to a new antidepressant (with that comes questioning about ototoxicity, neurotoxicity, excitotoxicity etc.). Then a loud event happens, your mind shoots immediately into overdrive, and if you end up in a mental house again, you just know what's gonna happen. They pump all those drugs in high doses in your system in an instant and it becomes a vicious circle (unless you end it all by yourself, if you know what I mean...). Sometimes I wish I got hit by a bus and all this misery would be over, just not me being the person taking my own life (I won't start another suicidal thread here, don't want to make it even one bit more difficult for the other ppl who need positivity to stay strong and focused that there is light at the end of the tunnel.) I want to help others but how can I do that when I can't even help myself? You're a good person Mystery Reader. Always a pleasure talking to you. Be well.

Hello there @Ed209 and thank you for responding! I tried not to let it get to me, but I failed miserably at trying to do so (viz what I just wrote above). What you say always makes sense. I know you have been through a lot yourself so I would never take your advice lightly.

The deadening affect on the sound would be quite dramatic, and then when you factor in the distance as well, it's not likely to have been dangerous in my opinion.

Yes. This is using a common sense and you're probably correct. However, it's my own anxiety, depression, w/d, whatever you want to call it, that did its own thing and just the mere thought of another noise trauma resulting in worse t. sent my mind into overdrive, giving me a terrible headache to the point I thought I'm honestly having a small stroke. Then pondering about if it is actually a stroke, then hopefully not somewhere in the formatio reticularis or lymbic system in the brain or anywhere for the matter in the audithory pathway that could, again, lead to permanent worsening of tinnitus (I did neurolinguistics as a part of my course so I know that even a small stroke in the Wernicke's or Broca's speech area in the brain can result in people having aphasia e.g.). So you start overthinking it, you're super super scared... you know where this is going. Also, I read your post today saying:

If a belief, or fear, is strong enough, it can easily create a real symptom in the mind. It's like a nocebo effect, and very real. Some people have been documented to lose their eyesight; the use of their legs, etc.

A mix of real damage and/or exaggerated symptoms via the limbic system are also possibilities. The problem with tinnitus is how little it is understood. We literally have no clue in some cases.

Which again got me immediately started questioning myself about whether yes or no I'm making more serious damage to myself just worrying about it way too much to the point which could then result in me having labyrinthitis, SSNL or something else which would again lead to worsening of tinnitus, then the plate drop in the sink... Ahh, I'm sure you know what I'm getting at. I was always taught to live by this rule: "If you want to make the right decisions you need to have a sufficiently accurate piece of information first." Come to think about it now, I think there are instances where ignorance is truly bliss and can safe you a lot of trouble. Overthinking is like overcooking, right? Well, mentally not really stable person here, anxiety levels pretty high... I don't know what to do anymore, tbh. A dead end. It's part of my personality to be inquisitive, so as I can protect myself and achieve smth in life. Now, following this same logic has turned against me. Alrigh, I know you understand. You're a clever person. I'll stop right here.

I can only hope things won't get any worse. Just so you get a better idea, guys, pls find attached a fraction of all the meds I've been taking. Some I threw away, this is what remained and my tapering process continuous. Psychiatry. I hope you guys now understand why I react the way I sometimes do, and one more time. Thank you for listening and just being there everyone. It makes a world of difference. (@Wolfears )

You can some calculator like this to estimate the sound pressure level hitting your window. They probably weren't so close for the whole time?

Thank you, I'll try to use this calculator next time (even tho I hope there won't be any need for it). Idk, I saw him below my window then the other guy, then panic followed, taking cover (a little too late, tho) with my muffs...

All the best wishes,

J.