War in Ukraine — Megathread

[Juan]

Just like it assisted Spain with the Madrid attacks.

Pardon me? In what did the US assist Spain after the train bombings?

Those train bombings here right by my place in Madrid were provoked by dragging us to a nonsense and fabricated US war in Irak we had nothing to do with. 200 people died, and many more were injured. Spain had never before suffered any kind of Islamic terrorist attack; it was obviously a response (nonsense too, but a response) for participating in the Irak war against the wish of the Spanish population, which demonstrated repeatedly against the war.

Could you show me those weapons of mass destruction in Irak? They were not found! It was a lie of Bush and Cheney.

They hired local guides and translators. Spain is responsible for them and their families.

Spain has brought several thousands of Afghan refugees to Madrid by plane. And there were statements by US representatives saying they are "en-route" to the US. These are not refugees we are responsible for. These are refugees that should go to the US, the country that decided to go to war in Afghanistan.

And what for? Why did the US dragged us (again!) to a war in Afghanistan? What was achieved there? The Taliban reconquered the whole country in two weeks!

 

[Paul1980]

Pardon me? In what did the US assist Spain after the train bombings?

Those train bombings here right by my place in Madrid were provoked by dragging us to a nonsense and fabricated US war in Irak we had nothing to do with. 200 people died, and many more were injured. Spain had never before suffered any kind of Islamic terrorist attack; it was obviously a response (nonsense too, but a response) for participating in the Irak war against the wish of the Spanish population, which demonstrated repeatedly against the war.

Could you show me those weapons of mass destruction in Irak? They were not found! It was a lie of Bush and Cheney.

Spain has brought several thousands of Afghan refugees to Madrid by plane. And there were statements by US representatives saying they are "en-route" to the US. These are not refugees we are responsible for. These are refugees that should go to the US, the country that decided to go to war in Afghanistan.

And what for? Why did the US dragged us (again!) to a war in Afghanistan? What was achieved there? The Taliban reconquered the whole country in two weeks!

I completely agree Iraq was a complete lie. I watched the U.S. presentation at the UN and I knew it was a fabrication. So when my country invaded Iraq, I figured we were no better than other countries that did the same thing. The difference is we can vote, AND, a lot of people supported the Iraq war in a fit of nationalism and anti-Islam.

In fact it is similar to what Russia is doing now, but there are differences, but that doesn't matter - I oppose Ukraine as I opposed Iraq. But Spain went to Afghanistan too. As you say the terrorists are full of nonsense no matter what they say is their reasoning. But if you are looking for a reason, you can add to that terrorists want Spain back as part of a new Islamic Caliphate. That is no joke, these people haven't evolved.

Why did Spain go to Iraq? You tell me, but again, most likely NATO commitments and stupidity. You should take it up with your government as to what they were thinking.

Sorry man about the terrorist attacks, I love Madrid, been there many times. You could try aligning yourself with Russia, and having Chechnya terrorists bomb you, or maybe just be Switzerland.

 

[ZFire]

Much Respect to all the Russians openly opposing the war in their country. Takes a lot of courage knowing that they will be immediately arrested for speaking out.

 

[Juan]

Why did Spain go to Iraq? You tell me, but again, most likely NATO commitments and stupidity. You should take it up with your government as to what they were thinking.

Spain went to war just due to the selfishness of the Aznar family. Aznar was the Spanish president then and just to have a picture with Bush and Blair in the Azores Islands he sold our country, he sold Spain and its people.

This is the damn idiot:

And the idiot in disguise, wearing a costume. This is a real picture, not altered in any way:

Spanish people demonstrated many times against the Irak war. We did not want the war.

Aznar sold the country and then Aznar's relatives were appointed as "counsellors" or "advisors" or high ranking employees of US funds, companies, foundations etc etc... his son in law lives in the UK and makes business there with the Formula 1 owners, the Royal Family and all those...

Aznar's wife sold public housing in Madrid, thousands of homes, for a pittance to US opportunistic real estate funds. Sold homes for like $60.000 USD each and then created and fuelled a housing bubble manipulating the real estate market...

Sorry man about the terrorist attacks, I love Madrid, been there many times. You could try aligning yourself with Russia, and having Chechnya terrorists bomb you, or maybe just be Switzerland.

Yeah, I wish we were Switzerland. At least the Swiss make intelligent political moves. They are neutral, they do not get involved in conflicts, they are practical...

 

[Damocles]

Masha the bear is trapped in Ukraine

A rescued former circus bear due to travel from Ukraine to a Romanian sanctuary has been left stranded by Putin's invasion.

Masha the Eurasian brown bear is being cared for at a temporary shelter in Sambir, South of Lviv, in Western Ukraine.

This week she was set to be transported 140 miles south to the Romanian border and to a new life at the country's Libearty Bear Sanctuary.

But Russian troops shut the borders before the invasion began on Thursday.

And now Masha, who spent 19 years of her life in a tiny cage and performing in circuses...

...is unable to reach her well-deserved retirement.

So, you got the memo. We need a hero (preferably one of the posters in this thread) to get in and get Masha out.

We gotta do it for Masha boiz! ️

 

[Damocles]

Masha the bear is trapped in Ukraine

So, you got the memo. We need a hero (preferably one of the posters in this thread) to get in and get Masha out.

We gotta do it for Masha boiz! ️

If someone here doesn't get on this soon, Imma be left with no choice but to get Pen Farthing on the case.

 

[Luman]

Biden said that Putin "Cannot remain in power." What is that supposed to mean? Is he planning to overthrow, or kill, him?

Biden says Putin 'cannot remain in power'

President Joe Biden declared forcefully Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin should no longer remain in power, an unabashed challenge that came at the very end of a swing through Europe meant to reinforce Western unity.

"For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power," Biden announced at the conclusion of a capstone address delivered in the cold outside the Royal Castle in Warsaw.

The White House afterward downplayed the remark: "The President's point was that Putin cannot be allowed to exercise power over his neighbors or the region," a White House official said. "He was not discussing Putin's power in Russia, or regime change."

Read more here:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/26/politics/biden-warsaw-saturday/index.html

 

[ZFire]

Biden said that Putin "Cannot remain in power." What is that supposed to mean? Is he planning to overthrow, or kill, him?

Biden says Putin 'cannot remain in power'

President Joe Biden declared forcefully Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin should no longer remain in power, an unabashed challenge that came at the very end of a swing through Europe meant to reinforce Western unity.

"For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power," Biden announced at the conclusion of a capstone address delivered in the cold outside the Royal Castle in Warsaw.

The White House afterward downplayed the remark: "The President's point was that Putin cannot be allowed to exercise power over his neighbors or the region," a White House official said. "He was not discussing Putin's power in Russia, or regime change."

Read more here:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/26/politics/biden-warsaw-saturday/index.html

The messaging is off. The statement should have been in relation to sanctions and its impact on the Russian People. Western sanctions on Russia should not be turned back even if Ukraine agrees to peace and give up territory. Only when the status goes back to before the war and Putin is out, should we maybe consider reversing the sanctions.

 

[Luman]

The messaging is off. The statement should have been in relation to sanctions and its impact on the Russian People. Western sanctions on Russia should not be turned back even if Ukraine agrees to peace and give up territory. Only when the status goes back to before the war and Putin is out, should we maybe consider reversing the sanctions.

I understand that but Biden has once again screwed up by making a statement that must be explained by his handlers. Sure, Putin should not be in power, but neither should Biden, for different reasons. And to further complicate matters, if Biden is removed or leaves voluntarily, his replacement is worse than him.

 

[SaraK18]

I'm not sure if anyone said this already - didn't read through all these messages, but I was also thinking about the poor people's ears in Ukraine. I can't imagine how many are going to have sound injuries after this I know there are much more serious things to consider, but still... praying for them.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

Ukraine reaches breaking point in Russia's war

Excellent summary of the war situation from someone who is very qualified to speak on it. Better content than any Western media.

 

[ZFire]

Ukraine reaches breaking point in Russia's war

Excellent summary of the war situation from someone who is very qualified to speak on it. Better content than any Western media.

Good read, thanks. I've been following the war through The Kyiv Independent as well... they've put out some good stuff.

Russians are fighting a 1980's war against small mobile units utilizing 2022 technology... Russian death toll could already be in the 10,000s which is absolutely mind-boggling, how can they be this incompetent...

This war is certainly a goldmine for military intelligence and it's likely going to lead to many changes even among NATO forces and China. Drone warfare for instance is providing so much combat data for operational readiness and planning.

 

[ZFire]

White House: Intel shows Putin misled by advisers on Ukraine

U.S. intelligence officials have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin is being misinformed by advisers about his military's poor performance in Ukraine, according to the White House. The advisers are scared to tell him the truth, the intel says.

The U.S. believes Putin is being misled not only about his military's performance but also "how the Russian economy is being crippled by sanctions because, again, his senior advisers are too afraid to tell him the truth," White House communications director Kate Bedingfield said Wednesday.

Putin has long been seen outside Russia as insular and surrounded by officials who don't always tell him the truth. U.S. officials have said publicly they believe that limited flow of information –- possibly exacerbated by Putin's heightened isolation during the COVID-19 pandemic -– may have given the Russian president unrealistic views of how quickly he could overrun Ukraine.

It's the long established failure mode of authoritarian top down organizations. If you get punished for bringing the supreme leader bad news, the supreme leader is going to get lies instead.

It's perfectly encapsulated in this video, you can see the fear in this exchange between Putin and his spy chief.



It's also another example on why free speech is so crucial on a societal level, not for the sake of the speaker, but so that everyone listening can be exposed to different viewpoints even in leadership roles.

 

[Paul1980]

It's the long established failure mode of authoritarian top down organizations. If you get punished for bringing the supreme leader bad news, the supreme leader is going to get lies instead.

For a second I thought you were talking about another person.

 

[ZFire]

So the "renowned" Russian flagship, Moskva has sunk at the very bottom of the Black Sea lol.

From 3 months ago regarding Ukrainian developed missiles - Russian Naval Captain: Ukrainian "Neptune" Is Easy to Detect and Shoot Down

The fact that their systems were supposedly tricked by a single drone and were completely blind to the two missiles speaks volume about the current state of their defense systems and close-in weapon systems.

It's really mind blowing how incompetent the Russia military actually is. They are sending billions of dollars worth of ships, tanks, and other various armoured vehicles to get obliterated. It's no wonder they've resorted to bombing indiscriminately and killing Ukrainian civilians.

This really raises the question, do they really think this would go any other way against the intelligence and weaponry of the US, UK and their NATO allies? They've shattered the carefully calculated image that they built up for decades that they are a serious and formidable military power. You can forget about the US military, they'd get absolutely annihilated by UK alone.

This video provides a quick rundown on this whole Moskva fiasco. The video was made before the Russians admitted to its sinking, but it goes over the alleged missile (Neptune) used to sink the $750 million warship along with the ship's capabilities and why its sinking is somewhat perplexing.



Farewell, Moskva.

 

[Exit]

So are we really certain they did blow up that ship?

I read yesterday the casualties in Mauripol are 30 000-40 000 and that bodies lies on top of each other on the streets like a carpet.

It's really hard to believe everything as it's natural and reasonable to assume both countries in the conflict are desperate to win face and support.

I'm still amazed that the most civilised / developed continent in the world has come to this complete and ridiculous waste of lives, resources and environment...

 

[Luman]

So are we really certain they did blow up that ship?

I read yesterday the casualties in Mauripol are 30 000-40 000 and that bodies lies on top of each other on the streets like a carpet.

It's really hard to believe everything as it's natural and reasonable to assume both countries in the conflict are desperate to win face and support.

I'm still amazed that the most civilised / developed continent in the world has come to this complete and ridiculous waste of lives, resourcesnd environment...

What is, in your view, "the most civilised / developed continent in the world"?

 

[Exit]

What is, in your view, "the most civilised / developed continent in the world"?

Used to be Europe...

Now it's definitely America

Edit:

Oh forgot about those down under!

Australia!

 

[Juan]

The chances of reaching a peace agreement are getting slimmer. Zelensky rules out giving up any part of Ukraine and the Russians want Donbas etc etc to be independent (controlled by Russia) and they also want to keep Crimea.

Sadly, it looks like the Ukraine war will go on for a long time.

 

[ZFire]

So are we really certain they did blow up that ship?

Ukrainian Gov't has been far more credible. It's hard to take anything coming out of Russia's mouth seriously anymore. Their propaganda is taking them to places that are beyond ridiculous now.

But to your question, Ukraine says they hit the Moskva cruiser with two of their Neptune missiles. Russia on the other hand has denied Ukrainian involvement and instead have claimed that there was a accidental fire on the ship that caused the munitions to explode. What's hilarious about this is that both scenarios do not paint the Russian Navy in good light. It's either 1. they got owned by the Ukrainians or 2. they self-owned themselves.

And if we go along with the Russian narrative about the accidental fire, that frankly makes them look even more incompetent than they already are. Imagine your own navy's ineptitude being responsible for the destruction and sinking of a $750 million warship whose main purpose was to provide strategic value in the Black Sea.

With that said, I'm inclined to believe the sinking was caused by Ukrainian action. Ukraine has shown itself to be quite formidable and resourceful, meanwhile Russia continues to damage their reputation. I'm beginning to wonder how many of their nukes are actually viable and if they even have the capabilities to launch most of it.

 

[Damocles]

What is, in your view, "the most civilised / developed continent in the world"?

Used to be Europe...

Now it's definitely America

Edit:

Oh forgot about those down under!

Australia!

Best/most civilised part of the world to live/be in right now, from a political perspective, would be Japan or South Korea; so East Asia (excluding China, Hong Kong, Mongolia etc.).

Keep in mind I say political perspective, because unfortunately Japan's waters are brimming with radionuclides and probably by now, some newly "evolved" form of mutant sea-life.





As for South Korea, we can see China making moves this decade, so it won't be long before they make their grab for Taiwan and provide military assistance to North Korea for the "rescue" and "unification" (aka. de-westernisation and communisation) of the south.

But for now, these two countries are peaceful, prosperous, with their cultural heritages in-tact (and not under attack), and most importantly devoid of wokery.

If it weren't for the obvious, I'd probably be living in SK now.

 

[ZFire]

 

[ZFire]

Lately, I've been learning about Ukraine's own weapon development & defence industry. It's actually much bigger than I thought. They produce a lot of home grown armaments for their armed forces, only the really big stuff like warships & jets are purchased from abroad. Few countries have this capability..

 

[Lane]

Looks like Kuchma knew (bolded below) exactly what the true colors of the Russians were way back in the 1990's when they made that fateful decision to get rid of their nuclear weapons. If there's one glaring lesson to be learned from this war, it's that a country with nuclear weapons can commit unspeakable atrocities on a neighboring country, and essentially get away with it, because other countries (like the U.S.) don't want to risk a confrontation with a nuclear power.

The flip side is that if you don't have nuclear weapons, you make yourself vulnerable to such atrocities. Leaders worldwide will take note, and we could very well see worldwide nuclear proliferation on a very large scale. The other lesson to be learned is that for many years on many different fronts, the West didn't do many things they should have to protect Ukraine. They didn't do so because they didn't want to provoke Putin. Appeasement rarely works; it usually leads to dictators trying to take more and more, after already seeing what they can get away with.

"...under pressure from the United States, Ukraine had reached an agreement to destroy its nuclear arsenal. President Bill Clinton heralded the pact as "a hopeful and historic breakthrough" to improve global security. But Ukraine's leader, President Leonid Kuchma, warned that it would make his fledgling country more vulnerable.​

"If tomorrow, Russia goes into Crimea, no one will raise an eyebrow," he said that year.​

Moscow was already goading a separatist movement in Crimea, even as Mr. Clinton predicted that Ukraine would become a major European power.

Yet over the next decade, experts said, NATO left out Ukraine to avoid angering Russia, which some members saw as an important economic partner and energy supplier and hoped would evolve into a more democratic and less threatening power."​

 

[ZFire]

I've had to take a break in keeping myself up to date with the war, for the sake of my mental well-being after seeing some of the disturbing images of the atrocities committed by Russians. Absolute barbarians.

Russian have shifted their focus in Eastern Ukraine after their embarrassing initial objectives to overtake Kyiv.

It's been a little over 2 months since this war unleashed by Russia began and so far:

- Approx. 25,000+ dead Russian soldiers (insane)
- 2,000 armoured vehicles destroyed
- 20 Battalion tactical groups rendered combat ineffective
- 8 generals killed
- Flagship sunk (Moskva)
- Russia's military reputation damaged
- Russian economy bankrupted by sanctions
- NATO enlarged (refer to Sweden and Finland)
- Russia vilified globally

These are the results you get when your country is run as a kleptocracy. Russia has no institutional integrity whatsoever. It's all propped up by lies and fraud which come crashing down when it's actually tasked to do anything.

Looks like Kuchma knew (bolded below) exactly what the true colors of the Russians were way back in the 1990's when they made that fateful decision to get rid of their nuclear weapons. If there's one glaring lesson to be learned from this war, it's that a country with nuclear weapons can commit unspeakable atrocities on a neighboring country, and essentially get away with it, because other countries (like the U.S.) don't want to risk a confrontation with a nuclear power.

The flip side is that if you don't have nuclear weapons, you make yourself vulnerable to such atrocities. Leaders worldwide will take note, and we could very well see worldwide nuclear proliferation on a very large scale. The other lesson to be learned is that for many years on many different fronts, the West didn't do many things they should have to protect Ukraine. They didn't do so because they didn't want to provoke Putin. Appeasement rarely works; it usually leads to dictators trying to take more and more, after already seeing what they can get away with.

"...under pressure from the United States, Ukraine had reached an agreement to destroy its nuclear arsenal. President Bill Clinton heralded the pact as "a hopeful and historic breakthrough" to improve global security. But Ukraine's leader, President Leonid Kuchma, warned that it would make his fledgling country more vulnerable.​

"If tomorrow, Russia goes into Crimea, no one will raise an eyebrow," he said that year.​

Moscow was already goading a separatist movement in Crimea, even as Mr. Clinton predicted that Ukraine would become a major European power.

Yet over the next decade, experts said, NATO left out Ukraine to avoid angering Russia, which some members saw as an important economic partner and energy supplier and hoped would evolve into a more democratic and less threatening power."​

All great points especially regarding the lack of protective measures for Ukraine. It also doesn't help when European countries like Germany and Italy have close business ties with Russia and rely heavily on their fossil fuels.

But yeah, I think it's time we risk escalation. Because if we as nations of the free world are not prepared to risk ourselves to stop piles of children lying in the streets, then what the heck are we doing exactly? I don't want an escalation to nuclear war, but I do feel like we need to start calling Putin's bluff way more. More weaponry, more logistics support, missile launches on Russian troops still in Ukraine. Let's give Putin a real proxy war.

 

[KotaDomowa]

To tell you the truth, I haven't had any respect for Pope Francis for a very long time, but today he has overdone it quite well.

In the present circumstances, the claim that "probably barking NATO at the door of Russia led to a reaction from the Kremlin" is, in my opinion, disgusting propaganda (sounds like on Russian television) and justifying crimes.

I found it in my Polish press. And I went to compare it with the foreign one to see if it was not a fake.

Pope: NATO possibly provoked Ukraine conflict - Breaking The News

 

[Lane]

in my opinion, disgusting propaganda (sounds like on Russian television)

@KotaDomowa -- Totally agree on the disgusting part. I can't believe how many people pick up Russian talking points, as if they had the least bit of validity. Me thinks the Pope should stick to the spiritual needs of his parishioners, and leave the politics to somebody who's not quite so naive.

 

[ZFire]

WARNING: This video has graphic content (dead bodies).



If you're a parent, the last part of the video(14:50 minute mark) might be extremely difficult to watch. It's heartbreaking to see the father burying his wife and daughter while telling his deceased daughter to forgive him...

The video lays out what the next phase of Russia's war in Ukraine is (shifting efforts in the Donbas region) and goes into some of the dilemmas Ukrainian civilians in that region are faced with. As the war continues, more evidence of atrocities committed are becoming more apparent. Rape, torture, executions, mass graves, looting,

I think documentary videos like this are important to show the world just how barbaric the Russian military is and to dispel their lies. We're seeing such graphic reporting because so many people around the world are buying into Russian propaganda, so it's important they know the truth.

I've seen my fair share of horrifying images. Burnt corpses, bodies lying in the streets, woman's underwear scattered everywhere, and mass graves. The one I'll never forgot was a image that showed a pile of bodies with a girl who could not have been older than 4 or 5 on top of the pile. Her hands were tied and was blind folded with a piece of clothing. Can't believe we're seeing this in the year 2022.

 

[ZFire]

Anyone here buy into the rumor that Putin is terminally ill? This has been circulating since 2020. I've heard he's got cancer. Maybe Parkinson's.

 

[MickeyAdams]

America sent gear to the USSR to help win World War II

USA not just helped Russia against Germany, but pretty much covered their economic needs during WW2 and before German invasion. 11 billions spent by the US helping Russians during war. Smh...