Was Recovering, Then Saw a Movie... Mistake?

[teabuzz]

I've had tinnitus for just under 2 months, and in the last few weeks it's been getting better (lower volume, more of a hiss than a high constant tone). My tinnitus doctor said it would be ok to see a movie as long as I wore hearing protection, so I watched Ready Player One last night with foam earplugs AND 3M earmuffs.

I used my phone decibel meter and the movie never exceeded 84 db (and that was rare). Most of the deep explosions were around the high 70s. However, tonight my tinnitus was extremely loud and I had to take Xanax for the first time just to sleep. Now in the morning it has quieted down some, but is still higher and louder than usual (the mornings are usually really quiet).

Hoping I didn't mess up my recovery...should I see a doctor and get Prednisone or is that not necessary?

Thank you

 

[GregCA]

Hoping I didn't mess up my recovery...should I see a doctor and get Prednisone or is that not necessary?

I wouldn't. Just relax and take it easy.

 

[teabuzz]

I wouldn't. Just relax and take it easy.

Thank you...I hope it will calm down to normal levels again soon. Keep trying to tell myself that it was no louder than driving a car on a rough highway which I do weekly.

 

[JurgenG]

It's fine, you had plugs and muffs, I even think your T could spike because of the protection.
I sometimes get increased T afterwards when wearing earplugs (while sound levels are low enough).

 

[DT_N_DA_CLUB]

spikes sometimes happen after wearing ear plugs. You used way too much hearing protection.

 

[glynis]

It could have been anxiety thinking of if your ears would be ok.
Well done for using protection and in sure you will be fine.
Have a lovely Easter break...
Love glynis

 

[teabuzz]

Thank you all so much for the reassurance. I'm sure a lot of it was just my anxiety making things worse - I'll give it another day or two to calm down.

I am trying to tone down the ear protection...still just paranoid about making any more stupid mistakes. Didn't know it could actually cause spikes on it's own though!

 

[glynis]

Maybe try noise reduction plugs instead of foam plugs so your ears don't get a pressure rush keeping foam plugs in.
Reduction plugs let a safe sound limit in your ears and for myself I find them better.
Love glynis

 

[Rohit Saluja]

I've had tinnitus for just under 2 months, and in the last few weeks it's been getting better (lower volume, more of a hiss than a high constant tone). My tinnitus doctor said it would be ok to see a movie as long as I wore hearing protection, so I watched Ready Player One last night with foam earplugs AND 3M earmuffs.

Don't worry it happens to me daily, I love movies used to watch movie daily from my phone, but I connect to my bluetooth speakers and kept them at a distance, i get the spike kind of like medium one, but it sorted out till the morning, then again it goes like this daily, it does not effect your recovery, I am 4 months in and it's been the same since last two months, I get these spikes from the movie on the daily basis, and my tinnitus is going down gradually If I compare my tinnitus from four months ago, so don't worry, I cannot live without movies, it's the only time pass i have when I am alone.

 

[teabuzz]

Maybe try noise reduction plugs instead of foam plugs so your ears don't get a pressure rush keeping foam plugs in.
Reduction plugs let a safe sound limit in your ears and for myself I find them better.
Love glynis

Thanks Glynis - yeah my plan is to transition to earplugs with lower NRR over time (the ones labeled "high fidelity") so that I get used to normal sounds levels. They're also nice since they mask the tinnitus better (the foam ones block all the high notes so that the tinnitus becomes really apparent); it's just in this case I stuck with foam to block the bass as much as possible.
On an unrelated note, I like the foam ones in that they get deeper into the ear, so speaking with them doesn't make my voice sound so loud and echo-y - unfortunately they make hearing others talk that much harder lol.

 

[teabuzz]

Don't worry it happens to me daily, I love movies used to watch movie daily from my phone, but I connect to my bluetooth speakers and kept them at a distance, i get the spike kind of like medium one, but it sorted out till the morning, then again it goes like this daily, it does not effect your recovery, I am 4 months in and it's been the same since last two months, I get these spikes from the movie on the daily basis, and my tinnitus is going down gradually If I compare my tinnitus from four months ago, so don't worry, I cannot live without movies, it's the only time pass i have when I am alone.

Thank you - yeah I love movies, and I really wanted to see this one to prove that I won't let tinnitus control my life. At least the spike still seemed to be lower than the 'normal' back when I first got tinnitus, so that's a relief. I actually feel like it's made a lot of progress in the last two weeks (considering hte first 5/6 weeks were pretty much constant) so I'm just hoping that trend continues at this point until it's completely gone.
Really glad to hear your experience with this - thank you for sharing.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It's fine, you had plugs and muffs

His experience (as well as the experiences of countless others who shared their horror stories here) prove that it is NOT FINE (yes, even though he wore ear protection that provides a false sense of security).

to prove that I won't let tinnitus control my life

You can ignore reality, but you are not going to be able to ignore the consequences of you ignoring reality.

 

[AZeurotuner]

I've had tinnitus for just under 2 months, and in the last few weeks it's been getting better (lower volume, more of a hiss than a high constant tone). My tinnitus doctor said it would be ok to see a movie as long as I wore hearing protection, so I watched Ready Player One last night with foam earplugs AND 3M earmuffs.

I used my phone decibel meter and the movie never exceeded 84 db (and that was rare). Most of the deep explosions were around the high 70s. However, tonight my tinnitus was extremely loud and I had to take Xanax for the first time just to sleep. Now in the morning it has quieted down some, but is still higher and louder than usual (the mornings are usually really quiet).

Hoping I didn't mess up my recovery...should I see a doctor and get Prednisone or is that not necessary?

Thank you

If the app you were using was accurate (there's only a few that are, and only on the iPhone, too many variables for Android devices), there's no way you caused damage. 70 decibels is well within the safety threshold, even if you only got a 20 decibel reduction from your protection, that's only 50 decibels! Most conversations are louder than that! You're fine, don't listen to Mr. Bauer, he's a pseudo "expert" around these parts.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Mr. Bauer, he's a pseudo "expert" around these parts.

I am NOT an expert (neither are you). But I Have been reading this forum, and not just moving my eyes, but actually paying attention to what it is people have been sharing with us.

Below are a handful of posts (a tip of the iceberg) that people like Azeroturner are ignoring for some bizarre reason:

My T faded a lot suddenly almost 3 years ago. I had total remission of some trebly sounds in my head. It became only audible in quiet rooms.

Now its back in full force cause Im stupid. Some ENT told me ear plugs are safe. Wrong! T is with me again.

I was told not to wear hearing protection for normal everyday situations but look where it's got me. I had my plugs in my pocket too. Getting on with a normal life hasn't helped for me.

" iwholovemusic " had a spike for about 2 years after loud event . I remember he had posted this about 2-3 years ago .
He was also wearing ear plugs and ear muffs !

I tried to wear some ear plugs while I was at the gym because I was afraid the clashing of the dumb bells was going to hurt my ears.

However, after working out twice I now have these two low frequency tones that feel like they are fighting over who should be playing every waking second. I can't quite figure out their pitches because they keep tag teaming, but it's much lower than my regular tinnitus.

I'm kind of distressed because I feel like I can never workout again for fear of making my tinnitus worse. What should I do?

Yes, you are correct. Not only that, but I have experienced firsthand already how avoidance is so much more helpful. Yes, even using earplugs and earmuffs is not a suitable replacement for avoidance.

In the third or fourth week of November I bought earmuffs and started wearing them on the bus, which I would take daily for work. At some point earlier on in this month (December) there was a new bus driver who not only had the bus intercom system turned on, but had the volume incredibly loud. I wore my ear protection and kept shuffling seats in an attempt to not be near one of the speakers. I suppose I must have not seen one of the speakers and ended up getting blasted. Even with ear protection on, it made my tinnitus arguably at its worse and gave me a new tone. Ever since then, I have opted for ridesharing services despite how expensive they are. I have sworn off using the bus.

Now, to my amazement, and in less than a month, not only has my new tone vanished, but my tinnitus has gone from moderate to mild. It is amazing to think that just cutting out a 15 minute bus drive with ear protection could have such benefits.

While I agree some people here go overboard with hearing protection, this increase in noise sensitivity after wearing hearing protection is only a temporary one. It is not the same thing as the brain turning up the auditory gain when there is a permanent loss in hearing.



With regards to noise exposure that isn't dangerous to most people, I developed a new tone in my right ear after a noise exposure at work back in October. I spent about half an hour in an area that I would estimate was at most 90db, but it was probably less than that. I had deeply inserted large foam earplugs at the time, but apparently that was not enough protection. That tone has not gone away, and it's not some psychosomatic spike. Spikes in volume are somewhat relative in my opinion, they can be attributed to stress, lack of sleep, noise exposure, diet, etc., but completely new tones that do not go away are something different.

What is safe for you may not be safe for me. And the fact is there has been no good study done assessing the vulnerability of already damaged auditory systems. The gold standard for dangerous noise levels is based on old data from OSHA where they looked for permanent threshold shifts of 10db or more at 2000, 3000, or 4000 Hz. As we know now, you can have fairly significant auditory damage without having a permanent threshold shift in those three ranges. There is also a lot of industry push-back when OSHA tries to make safety guidelines more strict (I haven't seen this with noise levels, but I have seen it with chemical safety guidelines). Moreover, it's very likely that some people are more genetically predisposed to hearing damage than others.

What I'm getting at here is I agree with you that some people really do go overboard with hearing protection, and obsessing about noise is not healthy, but it irritates me when people adopt this attitude of "well it works for me therefore it must work for you" or "it's safe for me therefore it's safe for you". No one can say that.

the noise has actually got worse - a lot worse just lately as I've been exposed to a noisy office environment. Normal for everyone else but too noisy for my ears. I now have a noise like a jet engine, a rushing wind with a high-pitched whine in it.

Yeah. I am going through the same thing. Got my T to improve and go back to mild and went to a restaurant I have eaten safely at twice post T and have had the loudest spike that has, after a week, not improved at all. And my H got worse too.

When people speak of habituation, I'm pretty sure they refer to what I was experiencing when my T was a lot less louder. It was easy to tune out which is why I never took it seriously until it was too late. What I have now is impossible to ignore completely.

It lead to stress and anxiety which have destroyed my sleeping. Without any medication I get maybe an hour of unrefreshing sleep. I take ambien which gives me 4 at most which is my new normal now. Memory and cognitive abilities have fallen off a cliff. I suggest you drop concerts, headphones, and anything else involving loud sounds. You don't not want to reach this state ever. Take care.

It started 2015 with a slight ring that I hardly noticed, but I continued to to go to loud events, use headphones/earphones, loud music, basically everything that you shouldn't do. Then last year it became a massive problem, probably a month before I joined the site. Ever since then it's become a bigger part of my life than it should be.

I can't take it anymore. I don't want to die but at this stage the urge to stop suffering is stronger. Ps. To all members in this forum advising against so called "overprotection". I never exposed myself to sounds even remotely considered as being potentially harmful to healthy people but because of your advice I was exposed to sounds uncomfortable for me which eventually proved to be damaging.

At initial stages i was very weary about sound levels around me and used protection everytime I felt uncomfortable.

Only by reading TRT literature or some posts here I started to expose my self to sounds loud but never louder than 75-80 dB.

Whenever I was feeling like something is not right I was stupid enough to believe you these changes were part of "the natural process of healing".

Is this your healing? Every time you feel like giving this sort of advice have my case in mind.

To see the original message, just click the "up arrow" to the right of "username said:"

 

[AZeurotuner]

I am NOT an expert (neither are you). But I Have been reading this forum, and not just moving my eyes, but actually paying attention to what it is people have been sharing with us.

Below are a handful of posts (a tip of the iceberg) that people like Azeroturner are ignoring for some bizarre reason:

















To see the original message, just click the "up arrow" to the right of "username said:"

Double protection for sound levels that didn't even touch 80 decibels, there is absolutely no way that hearing damage was caused. If that were the case then we'd all be deaf Bill. Spikes are often times brought on by stress, anxiety, diet, and sleep quality. Just because the OP had a spike the following day does not mean it was a result of the movie theater.

 

[teabuzz]

Hey everyone. I appreciate everyone's feedback here, and I think it just goes to show that many of us have different experiences and will to some degree have to listen to our bodies.

I don't want us to argue too much about this - we are all here for support, and I am grateful for everyone's responses. Regardless of whether the movie was a good idea or not, for now I realize all I can do is remain positive, hope for the best, and try to relax in case the anxiety/stress element is making it worse. Whether by sound or anxiety, I will be avoiding movies for a while to give my ears more time to recover without causing myself any more panic attacks.

As for my tinnitus, currently it seems like it's similar to my 'normal' - that is, it's semi-loud, but it usually gets much louder towards the evening anyway (which it is right now). Hoping that it returns to being really static-y/quiet by the morning again, and then I'll know that at least I'm back to baseline.

I've been meaning to write a more comprehensive update of my journey so far anyway, with what I've learned in talking to doctors and my own experiences, so I hope to share more good news by then.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Double protection for sound levels that didn't even touch 80 decibels, there is absolutely no way that hearing damage was caused. If that were the case then we'd all be deaf Bill. Spikes are often times brought on by stress, anxiety, diet, and sleep quality. Just because the OP had a spike the following day does not mean it was a result of the movie theater.

I will reply by quoting @Alue 's old post (that I had already quoted above). I guess I will underline some relevant text in that post:

With regards to noise exposure that isn't dangerous to most people, I developed a new tone in my right ear after a noise exposure at work back in October {{this post was made on January 1}}. I spent about half an hour in an area that I would estimate was at most 90db, but it was probably less than that. I had deeply inserted large foam earplugs at the time, but apparently that was not enough protection. That tone has not gone away, and it's not some psychosomatic spike. Spikes in volume are somewhat relative in my opinion, they can be attributed to stress, lack of sleep, noise exposure, diet, etc., but completely new tones that do not go away are something different.

What is safe for you may not be safe for me.

 

[Robert44]

@AZeurotuner @Bill Bauer

I've been getting a roaring sound in my left ear lately. Just comes on and last for a few seconds then goes away. Thank God. scary.... Worse than the T I have now I would guess.. I mean if it didn't go away...Didn't do anything to make this happen. No loud sounds, diet or drugs Etc......nothing has changed... Some of this is a mystery..... They still can't find a cure.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I've been getting a roaring sound in my left ear lately. Just comes on and last for a few seconds then goes away.

People on this forum refer to the above as "fleeting tinnitus". Search this forum for more details. Most (including me) agree that it is harmless. It could even be our body's way of trying to recalibrate and to get rid of T. This hypothesis seems to be consistent with the fact that people with T get fleeting T more often than people who are not suffering from T (who get it too, but a lot less often). So don't worry about it. Tell yourself that you will worry only if it doesn't go away within 60 seconds.

 

[AZeurotuner]

I will reply by quoting @Alue 's old post (that I had already quoted above). I guess I will underline some relevant text in that post:

So you're comparing 70 decibel peaks wearing double protection to a sustained 90 decibels with just ear plugs? Nice argument Bill...

 

[Bill Bauer]

So you're comparing 70 decibel peaks wearing double protection to a sustained 90 decibels with just ear plugs? Nice argument Bill...

Alue said that "it was probably less than that (90dB)". Also ALUE HAD BEEN WEARING EARPLUGS, so he got a permanent new sound after being exposed to sound that was QUIETER than 90 - (31-7)/2 = 90 - 12 = 78 dB.

That double protection will do less than you expect. X4A 3M muffs are 27 dB. Using the formula "take the NRR number (in dB), subtract seven, and then divide by two."
https://www.coopersafety.com/earplugs-noise-reduction
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...how-to-use-the-noise-reduction-rating-nrr.pdf
the actual protection is (27-7)/2 = 10. It was double protection, so add 5. He mentions the movie getting as loud as 84 dB. Those cell phone dB meters are notoriously inaccurate, it could have been 95dB, resulting in around 80dB exposure.

I am not sure why we are trying to estimate his exposure. Given that the original poster and Alue Got hurt (and Alue got a New Tone), the quieter the sound the worse is the news for all of us.

 

[Bill Bauer]

So you're comparing 70 decibel peaks wearing double protection to a sustained 90 decibels with just ear plugs? Nice argument Bill...

Double protection just changes the noise by 5dB (which is less than the margin of error on those cell phone dB meters).

 

[AZeurotuner]

Alue said that "it was probably less than that (90dB)". Also ALUE HAD BEEN WEARING EARPLUGS, so he got a permanent new sound after being exposed to sound that was QUIETER than 90 - (31-7)/2 = 90 - 12 = 78 dB.

That double protection will do less than you expect. X4A 3M muffs are 27 dB. Using the formula "take the NRR number (in dB), subtract seven, and then divide by two."
https://www.coopersafety.com/earplugs-noise-reduction
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...how-to-use-the-noise-reduction-rating-nrr.pdf
the actual protection is (27-7)/2 = 10. It was double protection, so add 5. He mentions the movie getting as loud as 84 dB. Those cell phone dB meters are notoriously inaccurate, it could have been 95dB, resulting in around 80dB exposure.

I am not sure why we are trying to estimate his exposure. Given that the original poster and Alue Got hurt (and Alue got a New Tone), the quieter the sound the worse is the news for all of us.

Actually no... There are apps that are pretty darn accurate. Soundmeter for example, has a margin of error of only 1.75dbs, which was confirmed by the CDC. And the correction factor assumes an extremely poor fit for muffs as well as plugs. If muffs only provided 10 decibels of protection then everyone who target shoots would be deaf. I can put music on at 60 decibels and BARELY hear it playing with x5a's on, surely I'm getting more than ten decibels of reduction.

 

[Bill Bauer]

And the correction factor assumes an extremely poor fit for muffs as well as plugs.

Since this is the formula that 3M recommends one use, such a fit is not rare.

There are apps that are pretty darn accurate. Soundmeter for example, has a margin of error of only 1.75dbs, which was confirmed by the CDC.

But there are apps that are not accurate. Why are you assuming that he had one of the accurate ones (especially GIVEN that he has been having problems after his experience).

I can put music on at 60 decibels and BARELY hear it playing with x5a's on, surely I'm getting more than ten decibels of reduction.

When I wear X5A, I can hear people talking quietly on an airplane in mid air.

If muffs only provided 10 decibels of protection then everyone who target shoots would be deaf.

I admit that the point above is a good point.

 

[GregCA]

I've been getting a roaring sound in my left ear lately. Just comes on and last for a few seconds then goes away. Thank God. scary.... Worse than the T I have now I would guess.. I mean if it didn't go away...Didn't do anything to make this happen. No loud sounds, diet or drugs Etc......nothing has changed...

It's very interesting because it shows that T flair-ups can happen fairly spontaneously. Had you lived anything eventful it would have been easy to fall for a bogus causation. For example, if someone had whispered in your ear, you could have easily imagined that the whisper is what caused the roaring.

It's so common to read testimonies in here such as "I did <insert innocuous action here> and my T is now spiking! Be careful! Never do it! It'll ruin your life", that one has to wonder whether the mind has to find a culprit for the sake of fighting the cognitive dissonance that a lack of understanding brings upon us.

 

[GregCA]

Double protection just changes the noise by 5dB (which is less than the margin of error on those cell phone dB meters).

Do you have a source for that? It's not the first time I see it mentioned and I'd like to understand its explanation.
(I don't mean links to pages that rehash this - they often claim 4-8 dB or 5dB - I mean the actual computation or scientific explanation)

 

[Bill Bauer]

Do you have a source for that?

Here are those formulas on the US Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration's website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20150406...sta/otm/noise/hcp/attenuation_estimation.html

==
https://www.earsandears.com/noise-reduction-ratings-nrr-safe-noise-levels/

If mowing the lawn at 87 dB is not something you want to do, then you do have the option of combining two hearing protection items to increase the overall sound reduction benefits that you're receiving. In this instance, let's say that your NRR 33 dB device are earmuffs and now you're going to add a set of silicone earplugs that have an NRR rating of 29 dB.

You don't add the two NRRs together to get a final result. You simply add +5 to the NRR of the highest rated device. You would not add +5 to your final answer.

Your equation in this circumstance would look like this: (NRR 33+5-7) ÷ 2.

WOW - the above implies that dual protection adds only 2.5 extra dB of protection...

 

[Bill Bauer]

I don't mean links to pages that rehash this

3M is a reputable company. I doubt they would rehash information that makes their products look bad for no reason.

 

[GregCA]

3M is a reputable company. I doubt they would rehash information that makes their products look bad for no reason.

I didn't mean it that way: I was interested in the physics behind it.

 

[GregCA]

Here are those formulas on the US Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration's website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20150406...sta/otm/noise/hcp/attenuation_estimation.html

==
https://www.earsandears.com/noise-reduction-ratings-nrr-safe-noise-levels/

Thanks, but like I said, I'm not interested in pages that say "do this", but rather interested in how they came up with this formula (ie the physics behind it). I've found a lead here, which points to a formula by "INRS (Damongeot, Lataye, & Kusy, 1990)" - so that's my next step.