Went to Commencement... Pretty Loud

[Jason37]

Went to wife's ceremony for her master's. Wore ear plugs but there was some cheering and organ playing. My dB meter said it peaked at 92 but it was in a huge auditorium.

I was uncomfortable at first but I have had no pain or increased ringing....actually really quiet today.

My question is for veterans who deal with events like this. How do you shake that anxiety after an event that you might have made a bad choice... I mean these are important things in life. Sometimes I don't even go to church because of the music before the sermon. This is what really gets me down about tinnitus.

 

[Ed209]

Went to wife's ceremony for her master's. Wore ear plugs but there was some cheering and organ playing. My dB meter said it peaked at 92 but it was in a huge auditorium.

I was uncomfortable at first but I have had no pain or increased ringing....actually really quiet today.

My question is for veterans who deal with events like this. How do you shake that anxiety after an event that you might have made a bad choice... I mean these are important things in life. Sometimes I don't even go to church because of the music before the sermon. This is what really gets me down about tinnitus.

It's really tough at first but you will learn to reintroduce things back into your life. For ceremonial type things, like you mentioned, you should be fine with earplugs in. A peak of 92 is nothing to worry about in my opinion. You just have to relearn your boundary's and that takes time; it's an adjustment period. Try not to get too obsessed about sound in general, and on the other end of the coin be wary around loud speakers such as in nightclubs and at concerts. They are still at the top of the danger list as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Bill Bauer]

How do you shake that anxiety after an event that you might have made a bad choice...

The best way is to not take any chances. You could have ran out of there as soon as it got loud. This way instead of anxiety, you can feel good about your actions and what you are doing to ensure that it doesn't get worse.

 

[Jason37]

Well couldn't leave my little kids sitting there alone watching their mother walk across the stage.

 

[Ed209]

@Jason37, a peak of 92db is not going to cause you much trouble with earplugs in. Especially in the environment you were in. Don't let your anxiety scare you when it comes to occasions such as this, and I'm not sure why @Bill Bauer found my post funny.

 

[Bill Bauer]

@Jason37, a peak of 92db is not going to cause you much trouble with earplugs in.

In an imaginary world that all of us would love to live in - the above is true. However, in the real world the above is clearly false (as evidenced by countless testimonies of T sufferers experiencing serious problems after being exposed to sounds quieter than 90 dB while wearing hearing protection).

 

[Bill Bauer]

I'm not sure why @Bill Bauer found my post funny.

We don't have a "dislike"/"this post is ridiculous" emoticon, and so we are forced to use that emoticon.

 

[Ed209]

In an imaginary world that all of us would love to live in - the above is true. However, in the real world the above is clearly false (as evidenced by countless testimonies of T sufferers experiencing serious problems after being exposed to sounds quieter than 90 dB while wearing hearing protection).

How so? Foam plugs would bring that down to around 62db (properly inserted), and bear in mind here, that we're talking about the peaks. Even the stork type plugs would bring it down to at least 72db so where's the problem? That's no different to a range of very typical everyday safe sounds. I have to question your logic here bill? On which planet can one expect to leave their home and not encounter 72db from time to time? You use the term, in an 'imaginary world', but that's exactly where you'd need to be to never encounter sounds as loud as these ever again. People need to live Bill. Without a fulfilling life, we can almost certainly predict one will become irritable and depressed.

I could understand where you were coming from if he said he was at a nightclub for a few hours. As it stands, there's a good chance you will give this man a legitimate fear of sound.

 

[Bill Bauer]

How so? Foam plugs would bring that down to 62db (properly inserted), and bear in mind here, that we're talking about the peaks. Even the stork type plugs would bring it down to at least 72db so where's the problem?

It sounds good in theory, but in practice people do report problems. I don't have the energy to look for posts to support this. But I know you have seen those posts that I quoted earlier, where people had reported regretting assuming that earplugs/muffs would keep them safe.

You use the term, in an 'imaginary world', but that's exactly where you'd need to be to never encounter sounds as loud as these ever again.

Its ok to encounter them when you don't have a choice, but to knowingly exposing yourself to sounds like those is insane.

As it stands, there's a good chance you will give this man a legitimate fear of sound.

It is good to fear scary things that can ruin your life.

Without a fulfilling life, we can almost certainly predict one will become irritable and depressed.

When T is loud enough, it is guaranteed to ensure that one's life is not going to be fulfilling.

 

[Ed209]

It sounds good in theory, but in practice people do report problems. I don't have the energy to look for posts to support this.

What does that prove? I can guarantee there will be posts. Don't forget who the main demographic of this site are: people who are afraid and vulnerable around sound. With this in mind you can expect many people to have spikes caused by anxiety, if they believe a sound to be damaging, by reading posts like yours. I seriously doubt that a 72db peak in sound is going to damage anyone. Why are we all not deaf? We're only born with 15,000 hair cells; I doubt many of us would have any left by now with a threshold that low.

All I will say is that no one can expect to avoid sounds in that range unless they stay at home all day and touch nothing.

 

[Ed209]

It is good to fear scary things that can ruin your life.

Even if the scary thing is your advice itself? That can also ruin someone's life.

 

[AZeurotuner]

When T is loud enough, it is guaranteed to ensure that one's life is not going to be fulfilling.

It's also guaranteed that your life won't be fulfilling if you shelter yourself from the world and spend the rest of your life scared to death of noise... Pick your poison.

 

[Bill Bauer]

That can also ruin someone's life.

It could ruin the lives of the people who think that having to protect their ears is worse than having lifelong louder T. However, even those people's lives will not be affected, as those people have the option of ignoring my advice. The people who believe that T is so bad that it would be worth it to ensure that it doesn't get louder, will listen to my advice, and (given their beliefs and preferences) we know that those people will benefit from my advice.

 

[Bill Bauer]

With this in mind you can expect many people to have spikes caused by anxiety

With regards to noise exposure that isn't dangerous to most people, I developed a new tone in my right ear after a noise exposure at work back in October. I spent about half an hour in an area that I would estimate was at most 90db, but it was probably less than that. I had deeply inserted large foam earplugs at the time, but apparently that was not enough protection. That tone has not gone away, and it's not some psychosomatic spike. Spikes in volume are somewhat relative in my opinion, they can be attributed to stress, lack of sleep, noise exposure, diet, etc., but completely new tones that do not go away are something different.

What is safe for you may not be safe for me. And the fact is there has been no good study done assessing the vulnerability of already damaged auditory systems. The gold standard for dangerous noise levels is based on old data from OSHA where they looked for permanent threshold shifts of 10db or more at 2000, 3000, or 4000 Hz. As we know now, you can have fairly significant auditory damage without having a permanent threshold shift in those three ranges. There is also a lot of industry push-back when OSHA tries to make safety guidelines more strict (I haven't seen this with noise levels, but I have seen it with chemical safety guidelines). Moreover, it's very likely that some people are more genetically predisposed to hearing damage than others.

What I'm getting at here is I agree with you that some people really do go overboard with hearing protection, and obsessing about noise is not healthy, but it irritates me when people adopt this attitude of "well it works for me therefore it must work for you" or "it's safe for me therefore it's safe for you". No one can say that.

 

[Ed209]

However, even those people's lives will not be affected, as those people have the option of ignoring my advice

It's not as simple as that though Bill. People under the influence of anxiety cannot just choose to ignore something they have read. It goes straight into their subconscious, where it will remain, until a sound is heard which triggers the panic. This is especially true if one repeatedly reads the same thing. It's called conditioning.

 

[Ed209]

Does no one drive on this forum? That's your threshold already, @Bill Bauer. Regular road noise hits your threshold of around 60db - in an average car -and highway noise is around 70db, and don't tell me it's damaging like I know you will. It's not. Even a conversation is in this vicinity; are people not allowed to talk to each other anymore?

It's only damaging if you believe it is, or, it may be considered painful if you have hyperacusis.

 

[fishbone]

Does no one drive on this forum? That's your threshold already, @Bill Bauer. Regular road noise hits your threshold of around 60db - in an average car -and highway noise is around 70db, and don't tell me it's damaging like I know you will. It's not. It's only damaging if you believe it is, or, it may be considered painful if you have hyperacusis.

Ed my dear friend, why do you try to exchange logics with bill? he preaches a paranoia world, phobic world that instills fears. This same preaching grips, many newcomers that don't know any better. I fully agree with you on all you have said. Someone wearing earplugs at a 90db wedding will experience probably 62-75dbs and that will not harm the ears.

The only reason why.... so many might have posted bad results, was probably because they had fear of ALL SOUNDS. Fear can even make 60db give someone a spike. Let bill live in a protective 30db life......

 

[Gman]

Does no one drive on this forum? That's your threshold already, @Bill Bauer. Regular road noise hits your threshold of around 60db - in an average car -and highway noise is around 70db, and don't tell me it's damaging like I know you will. It's not. Even a conversation is in this vicinity; are people not allowed to talk to each other anymore?

It's only damaging if you believe it is, or, it may be considered painful if you have hyperacusis.

Depends on where you drive. Little ol quiet UK is different to a developing country, I can assure you. It can be rather loud where I'm living, even in a well sound insulated 'luxury' suv.

 

[Ed209]

Ed my dear friend, why do you try to exchange logics with bill? he preaches a paranoia world, phobic world that instills fears. This same preaching grips, many newcomers that don't know any better. I fully agree with you on all you have said. Someone wearing earplugs at a 90db wedding will experience probably 62-75dbs and that will not harm the ears.

The only reason why.... so many might have posted bad results, was probably because they had fear of ALL SOUNDS. Fear can even make 60db give someone a spike. Let bill live in a protective 30db life......

I do it because of all the messages I get from people who are unnecessarily living in fear. Fear that they have damaged their ears all the time because of (mainly) Bills advice. Every now and then I try and readdress some balance before every newcomer loses their minds.

 

[Bill Bauer]

That's your threshold already, @Bill Bauer. Regular road noise hits your threshold of around 60db - in an average car -and highway noise is around 70db, and don't tell me it's damaging like I know you will. It's not.

I don't want to Find Out whether or not it is damaging, The Hard Way. So I am protecting my ears when I drive.

he preaches a paranoia world, phobic world that instills fears.

Trust me, if people were not reporting that noises were dangerous, I would not be sharing this information with others on this forum. Science is based on observations. You are saying the equivalent - I refuse to believe that those sounds could do any damage (and so you are choosing to ignore observations). Someone might say that just because 100 people shared horror stories does not mean that the risk is high (that perhaps 10000 people were ok, for every 100 people who post here). My response to that is that T is so horrible that almost any price would be worth reducing one's risk of making it even louder (or interfering with healing/fading).

The only reason why.... so many might have posted bad results, was probably because they had fear of ALL SOUNDS.

Sounds like you haven't read the posts that I quoted earlier. In those posts, it is clear that those people Also Thought That the Sounds Were Safe - and were shocked and surprised when they found out (the hard way) that those sounds were not so safe.

 

[Ed209]

Depends on where you drive. Little ol quiet UK is different to a developing country, I can assure you. It can be rather loud where I'm living, even in a well sound insulated 'luxury' suv.

Admittedly, the driving analogy is for developed countries that I have experience driving in such as U.K., Europe and the USA.

That still doesn't answer the subject of conservations, which also fall into that range. Is talking also considered dangerous? I'm trying to put some objective logic on here so we don't get thousands of newcomers losing their minds over all sound.

However, I think I'll bow out now I've said more than enough.

 

[fishbone]

I don't want to Find Out whether or not it is damaging, The Hard Way. So I am protecting my ears when I drive.

Trust me, if people were not reporting that noises were dangerous, I would not be sharing this information with others on this forum. Science is based on observations. You are saying the equivalent - I refuse to believe that those sounds could do any damage (and so you are choosing to ignore observations). Someone might say that just because 100 people shared horror stories does not mean that the risk is high (that perhaps 10000 people were ok, for every 100 people who post here). My response to that is that T is so horrible that almost any price would be worth reducing one's risk of making it even louder (or interfering with healing/fading).

Sounds like you haven't read the posts that I quoted earlier. In those posts, it is clear that those people Also Thought That the Sounds Were Safe - and were shocked and surprised when they found out (the hard way) that those sounds were not so safe.

Bill who determines that a sound is safe? Someone with fear, paranoia? Now I can understand if someone has hyperacusis and normal sounds might rattle them a little. I would not be surprised if someone, who just got tinnitus would think that almost all sounds are not safe. One thing is for sure, someone that just got tinnitus is emotionally rattled by it and could fear all sounds.

Now take someone like me, who has been around the block. I can follow scientific DB/sound levels in places and events and NEVER have an issue. Big reason is that i know those sounds, cannot hurt my ears. I don't have fear of sounds. I don't get spikes....

I have the same "compromised ears" that you claim..that we all have...what makes my case different?

I always say in many of my posts that, either the sound can cause the spikes or the raw emotions, fears and stress can cause them. I still live by this on a daily basis...

 

[Jason37]

@Ed209...I can assure you he won't be causing me to fear sounds of 72 db. I couldn't even exist in my own home with my kids at that level. I met a man today with T for 30 years from gunshot out of a duck blind and didn't even know what it was called till I told him! He just live with it and thought I was crazy using ear muffs for my electric trimmer. I am not spending the next 30 years in my house. I don't understand why some people hear are relying on science for a cure or treatment, but will not believe the studies or audiologist's advice that normal everyday sound thresholds are safe for people with T. I mean for Gods sakes I'm getting a spike now from reading negative crap on here tonight opposed to nothing happening yesterday after a transformer blew up at my neibours yesterday. We don't have tommarow so you better live for today.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Bill who determines that a sound is safe?

What determines it is whether or not it results in a serious spike.

To ensure that you don't end up with one, if a sound seems to be similar to the last sound that gave you a spike OR if the sound Feels like it is too loud (I stay away from everything that is like a vacuum cleaner or louder) to you, I found it to be a good policy to get away from such a sound.

 

[Jason37]

Then by that logic I can listen to transformers blowing up and tornado sirens anytime I wish...no spike. If we don't use our ears then they become weak....just like any other part of the body.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I can follow scientific DB/sound levels in places and events and NEVER have an issue.

I typed up and erased two responses to you. I don't want to make you feel bad, but at the same time, I don't want the anonymous people reading this to start acting recklessly. I guess the anonymous folks had lost this one.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

After my first onset of T years ago, I was able to adjust to having no fear of noise after my H, ASD and TTTS disappeared. I did work on gradual noise sound increases to accomplish this. I only used ear protection briefly after all this when vacuuming because we had a very loud vacuum or on a ten lane highway in cold or wet conditions.

Now with a bad spinal accessory nerve that effects my trapezius and sternocleidomastoid muscles along with ASD and H again - I am careful. I now have serious whiplash which progress several major degenerative diseases in my neck. Most with whiplash don't have my problems because they don't have degenerative disease complications as well.

When I post here, most of my health comments are directed to severe physical T cases. I spend time talking to these friends by PM here. Most here will have their T settle or can adjust and can go on to live a normal life. I did just that after my first onset with no fear and never thought about my T when it settled to lets say a 6 or 6.5 - the sound of a microwave.

 

[dpdx]

It is sad how Tinnitus can literally destroy someone's life/

 

[Zug]

Went to wife's ceremony for her master's. Wore ear plugs but there was some cheering and organ playing. My dB meter said it peaked at 92 but it was in a huge auditorium.

I was uncomfortable at first but I have had no pain or increased ringing....actually really quiet today.

My question is for veterans who deal with events like this. How do you shake that anxiety after an event that you might have made a bad choice... I mean these are important things in life. Sometimes I don't even go to church because of the music before the sermon. This is what really gets me down about tinnitus.

A peak of 92 Db in an event is pretty Ok. I take my earplugs when I do talks, even when I'm on stage it's not THAT loud. Whenever there's a lot of people, there will be some peaks, but not all the time. You have to think of it as a function of "Loudness X Time". If you go to a live band thing, you better have earplugs, in other kinds of events, you're fine even without them.

Mind you, I know people with Tinnitus that don't take earplugs even to live shows.

How to deal with it? One step at a time. At first it will seem hard, and gradually you'll know you'll be Ok.

First time I gave a live talk after developing Tinnitus and people started clapping I had a very weird experience: At first I was "Oh my god, all this clapping", and then "Hey stupid, they're clapping at you."

Congrats to your wife, you did the right thing.

Best,
Zug

 

[Zug]

Admittedly, the driving analogy is for developed countries that I have experience driving in such as U.K., Europe and the USA.

That still doesn't answer the subject of conservations, which also fall into that range. Is talking also considered dangerous? I'm trying to put some objective logic on here so we don't get thousands of newcomers losing their minds over all sound.

However, I think I'll bow out now I've said more than enough.

Last year I drove from my city in Brazil, crossed 3 states to the south, All the way trough Uruguay and reached Buenos Aires, then turned around and came back.

Believe me, when you see how argentinian truck drivers take the road, Tinnitus won't be a problem.