What If It's Just the Stress or Anxiety?

[hans01]

Hi all,

http://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety/symptoms/ringing-in-the-ears.shtml

"Although not mentioned on many medical websites yet, recent research has found that ringing in the ears is not actually related to the ears but caused by increased electrical signaling in parts of the brain responsible for auditory processing, including the amygdala – thought to be the fear center of the brain."

More on the research that was published in eLife in 2015:

http://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety/research/tinnitus-cause-and-treatment.shtml

This is probably not new, but as I'm a T sufferer since more then 15 years and it has increased the last two years since a burnout I've investigated a lot of things like most of us and really am coming to the conclusion that the T as well as hearing loss may be more a result of stress then just natural hearing loss.

All ENT's I've seen say it comes from playing music (I'm a guitar player) so for them the noise was really the issue, but how do they explain that most of my fellow musicians who probably do many more gigs then I did don't all have the issue, at least much less then I do but most don't even have T at all? I've ven talking to a guy who works with heavy machinery all days and has major hearing loss and no T at all. Also how do they explain that my hearing regressed even without touching the guitar for two years, maybe it was more the stress from burnout, which gave my tons of anxiety or the sleep apneas I developed during that period (again due to stress).

I've always been someone very anxious, while calm at first sight, have always had a hard time to cope with stressful situations. I see more and more websites talking that stress can really be the origin of T.

I can be wrong, but I believe that if we can turn down anxiety and stress that in some portion we can also lower of even get rid of T.

I had a friend who had terrible T's and got rid of it doing meditation working on stress, it took him years but he managed to turn of some pitches completely and others very low.
It's not the first time I hear people have T after drinking coffee, then getting rid of it stopping drinking coffee for a few days, so if it's related to hearing loss how's this possible then ?

peace, Hans

 

[hans01]

Can someone please tell me why posts get moved into this support forum ? I'm not looking for support lol ... more like searching for the cause of it, this isn't the right forum for it imho

 

[JurgenG]

As you know T has quite a lot of possible causes. It might be haircell damage, but other things are equally possible, perhaps even more likely.
And even with haircell damage, it's still the brain that generates the missing sound. And it's the brain who's responsible for the axciety and stress, surely it's all linked.

I for one, believe that I somehow -scared- myself in getting tinnitus. If that makes any sense.
Yes, there was a loud headset, for a short time, but it was my fear before and after that probably was the trigger.

Also it's been said before that a lot of people with T also have a form of OCD. I also generated other fears in the months before said accident. Some form of panic attacks.
Next to that my audiogram is quite good (mild dip at my ear with almost no T).

It's a too complex situation.

 

[Philippe79]

I do believe it plays a big part. A lot of it comes down to our personality. Someone who is naturally more prone to anxiety and stress (like me) will more likely suffer T, compared to someone who is laid back / placid. The hearing loss is just what triggers it off in some people, but not necessarily the decisive factor. Plenty of people have hearing loss and no T cause there brains are less susceptible, partly due to those factors.

 

[Raphael7713]

Since my T just disappears by its own for weeks and comes back from nowhere, I think it could be related to stress or anxiety...

 

[Screamin Ears]

Anxiety does not cause hearing loss.
As to anxiety being a factor in tinnitus, one of my family members does not suffer from anxiety in the slightest and has moderate tinnitus, while another is a stress head and has no tinnitus at all.
I think that there is a basket on the table of many medical professionals that has TINNITUS CAUSATION ANXIETY written on it, you can find it beside the basket with TOO HARD written on it.

 

[jimH]

I've always been someone very anxious, while calm at first sight, have always had a hard time to cope with stressful situations. I see more and more websites talking that stress can really be the origin of T.

I can be wrong, but I believe that if we can turn down anxiety and stress that in some portion we can also lower of even get rid of T.

Although, my T was originally caused by prolonged acoustic trauma, anxiety and stress have been the cause of numerous spikes over the years. It's no coincidence, in my opinion, that these spikes would subside at the same time that my anxiety and stressful situation did.

There was a study done of military veterans regarding the association between PTSD and Tinnitus.:

http://www.recoveryonpurpose.com/upload/Tinnitus and PTSD.pdf

 

[JurgenG]

Anxiety does not cause hearing loss.
As to anxiety being a factor in tinnitus, one of my family members does not suffer from anxiety in the slightest and has moderate tinnitus, while another is a stress head and has no tinnitus at all.
I think that there is a basket on the table of many medical professionals that has TINNITUS CAUSATION ANXIETY written on it, you can find it beside the basket with TOO HARD written on it.

Tinnitus is not always due to hearingloss though.

 

[hans01]

Thanks for all your input, it's indeed a complex situation but from some studies it seems indeed that anxiety can affect hearing, at least for me I'm sure the stress is the important co-factors to develop T in "most" cases, but stress also exist in different forms (food, work, inflammation, ...) so maybe the reason of the complexity

 

[Screamin Ears]

Tinnitus is not always due to hearingloss though.

Didn't say it is.

 

[Philippe79]

Anxiety does not cause hearing loss.

Not all tinnitus is caused by hearing loss!!!

 

[Philippe79]

one of my family members does not suffer from anxiety in the slightest and has moderate tinnitus, while another is a stress head and has no tinnitus at all.

There will ALWAYS be an exception to the rule.

 

[sanj100]

Anxiety does not cause hearing loss.
As to anxiety being a factor in tinnitus, one of my family members does not suffer from anxiety in the slightest and has moderate tinnitus, while another is a stress head and has no tinnitus at all.
I think that there is a basket on the table of many medical professionals that has TINNITUS CAUSATION ANXIETY written on it, you can find it beside the basket with TOO HARD written on it.

I feel there will always be outliers, but it's better to look at general trends to draw meaningful conclusions.

I.e. what proportion of tinnitus sufferers had anxiety issues prior to the onset of their tinnitus.

I don't think anyone said that every single person with high anxiety gets tinnitus or that there are no cases where calm non anxious people don't get tinnitus.

 

[hans01]

From what I see there's a big link between stress and T, and that also gives hope to find solution, as you can do something about the stress, not always easy but there are solutions.

 

[linearb]

Anxiety does not cause hearing loss.

usually, probably not, no. but stress and chronic anxiety are really bad for you, deplete cellular magnesium and lead to all kinds of nervous system damage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11891398

the panic anxiety attack occurred in the conversion disorder as psychogenic hearing loss and (2) the psychogenic hearing loss complicated the primary sudden deafness

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160121121818.htm

"Pathological anxiety and chronic stress are associated with structural degeneration and impaired functioning of the hippocampus and the prefrontal cortex (PFC), which may account for the increased risk of developing neuropsychiatric disorders, including depression and dementia,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26651008

People should not downplay the real, measurable physical damage that protracted distress states can cause. Additionally, being in a distress state involves the fight-or-flight response, which literally increases sensory gain, meaning that something like tinnitus is likely to be objectively louder as a result of distress.

From what I see there's a big link between stress and T, and that also gives hope to find solution, as you can do something about the stress, not always easy but there are solutions.

I think it's generally unlikely that any amount of cognitive or emotional work will "cure" tinnitus, as in, no more head noise. However, being in a bad cognitive/emotional state will increase the intensity of distress and suffering caused by tinnitus, chronic pain, or any other crappy physical problem. So, managing stress as well as possible is fundamentally one of the most important things and afflicted person should do.

 

[Screamin Ears]

Not all tinnitus is caused by hearing loss!!!

Tinnitus is not always due to hearingloss though.

Did not say it is!!!

 

[hans01]

I think it's generally unlikely that any amount of cognitive or emotional work will "cure" tinnitus, as in, no more head noise. However, being in a bad cognitive/emotional state will increase the intensity of distress and suffering caused by tinnitus, chronic pain, or any other crappy physical problem. So, managing stress as well as possible is fundamentally one of the most important things and afflicted person should do.

I agree with you about managing stress, but maybe a little more positive on curing T or other issues, even if you can reduce the noise by lets say 90% managing stress that would be good, also I am sure that if you believe in something (yeah that placebo effect) that many things can be accomplished, but the contrary is also true if you don't think it's possible then it won't happen, even my ENT said to me, 70% of the pathologies start in the head, so if that's the truth then there is also a way to inverse that, but one has first to be lieve in it. Ever read the book "You are the Placebo", from Joe Despenza ? I'm sure a lot of here think it's just nonsense, but actually not, there's really some truth in that, we just don't use our internal healing possibilities anymore.

 

[Philippe79]

Did not say it is!!!

I misunderstood your post, having reread the whole thread. Now I realise what you are saying.. 'stress/anxiety does not cause hearing loss and/or tinnitus'. My apologies.

 

[hans01]

I think that there is a basket on the table of many medical professionals that has TINNITUS CAUSATION ANXIETY written on it, you can find it beside the basket with TOO HARD written on it.

I'm not sure about this, I'm just trying to evaluate what I'm experiencing myself, and interesting to see that quite a lot of people here have stress/anxiety issues and so the link for me, I think it's not just a hearing issue but more a psychological issue in most cases, or at least it makes the T worse, remember that stress can really cause a lot of trouble in your body, some have gut issues, others headaches, or worse, maybe like suggested before for some who are already sensitive to noise develop this ... it's indeed complex, but for me the picture is becoming clear.

 

[Raphael7713]

Anxiety does not cause hearing loss.
As to anxiety being a factor in tinnitus, one of my family members does not suffer from anxiety in the slightest and has moderate tinnitus, while another is a stress head and has no tinnitus at all.
I think that there is a basket on the table of many medical professionals that has TINNITUS CAUSATION ANXIETY written on it, you can find it beside the basket with TOO HARD written on it.

Hearing loss doesn't always manifest itself as tinnitus....and stress doesnt always manifest in tinnitus.

 

[Screamin Ears]

I'm just trying to evaluate what I'm experiencing myself, and interesting to see that quite a lot of people here have stress/anxiety issues and so the link for me,

If you put a screaming noise that you can't turn off into any ones head and that noise doesn't go away or become lower in volume you will find most of those people will develop stress or anxiety.
I think if you asked people to really think about how bad their stress and anxiety actually was before they got tinnitus that not many would have had a level of stress or anxiety that would be bad enough to cause physical illness.

or at least it makes the T worse

Making the tinnitus worse i agree with no doubt, but making tinnitus worse and causing not only tinnitus but hearing loss as you were saying are totaly different things.

 

[Raphael7713]

I remember back in may when i told a female friend that I'm suffering from T and it's a pain in the ass, and she responded with "I get that too when I'm stressed". This also indicates that stress and anxiety can manifest itself with tinnitus symptoms. Not for all, but for some.

 

[hans01]

If you put a screaming noise that you can't turn off into any ones head and that noise doesn't go away or become lower in volume you will find most of those people will develop stress or anxiety.
I think if you asked people to really think about how bad their stress and anxiety actually was before they got tinnitus that not many would have had a level of stress or anxiety that would be bad enough to cause physical illness.

Making the tinnitus worse i agree with no doubt, but making tinnitus worse and causing not only tinnitus but hearing loss as you were saying are totaly different things.

Well I saw some links on the web and initial studies going into that direction, but seem that I'm not the only one making this link, ou have your point of view, i respect that, no problem but for me the anxiety and stress was already there waaaay before the T, actually my first T's began right after I started working as a freelance and had tons of stress and late hours to work, so a very big financial pressure too, sure T makes stress worse too, but it's a vicious circle, for me stress is probably the most important co-factor to develop T, and I have some good examples like a friend of mine who got rid for most of his T with meditation and completely changing lifestyle. Everyone is different, but that's it for me.

 

[hans01]

I remember back in may when i told a female friend that I'm suffering from T and it's a pain in the ass, and she responded with "I get that too when I'm stressed". This also indicates that stress and anxiety can manifest itself with tinnitus symptoms. Not for all, but for some.

My own drum player from my band, they had T after drinking too much coffee, but it went away afterwards when he stopped drinking coffee for a few days. Last week I talked to a friend bass player when he was young he always had T when he was auditioning at school.

Indeed we're all different, but for me stress is for sure the major cause.

 

[linearb]

even if you can reduce the noise by lets say 90% managing stress that would be good

If the average tinnitus patient can reduce the actual volume of the noise by even 9% as a result of stress management, I would find that frankly mind-blowing.

When I got tinnitus my lifestyle and stress management tools were absolute shit; 10 years later, my lifestyle is pretty balanced and I am much better at managing anxiety and stress. This has dramatically reduced the impact tinnitus has in my life, but I can't say it's actually changed the sound. The sound simply is.

 

[hans01]

If the average tinnitus patient can reduce the actual volume of the noise by even 9% as a result of stress management, I would find that frankly mind-blowing.

When I got tinnitus my lifestyle and stress management tools were absolute shit; 10 years later, my lifestyle is pretty balanced and I am much better at managing anxiety and stress. This has dramatically reduced the impact tinnitus has in my life, but I can't say it's actually changed the sound. The sound simply is.

Maybe, at moments when I'm really feeling smooth and relaxed, I have the impression the hissing is less loud. In terms of level my initial T (hissing) I have since more then 15 years is very loud (8-9/10) I can hear it when I go out or go to small gigs, but it definitely decreases to 5/10 when I'm feeling relaxed. Maybe it's only the perception, I don't know but it definitely is less loud. Also there is a difference maybe between managing anxiety and stress and getting totally rid of it. But I have faith that the only way to deal with it and have a possible positive outcome is to get rid of the stress/anxiety first unless someone finds a drug that cas help with it.

 

[hans01]

There's also a gut-brain and stress link I'd like to explore more, there most be a reason why some people are less sensitive to stress then others, I mean not just a genetic difference.

 

[Marlino]

@hans01

I'm currently trying to cut out any stress of my life to see if it has any positive impact on my t.

Problems are:
My T is one of my biggest stressors so far, but I'm working on it. If there is no outside stress, its at least far easier not to be overwhelmed.

Also i have to learn what stresses me. Its not as obvious as I thought.

And some stress seems like PTSD be unconscious and not avoidable.

 

[hans01]

@hans01

I'm currently trying to cut out any stress of my life to see if it has any positive impact on my t.

Problems are:
My T is one of my biggest stressors so far, but I'm working on it. If there is no outside stress, its at least far easier not to be overwhelmed.

Also i have to learn what stresses me. Its not as obvious as I thought.

And some stress seems like PTSD be unconscious and not avoidable.

I agree with you Marlino,

in some cases I thought it was the T that caused me anxiety and stress, but then in some cases I found it didn't really bother mat all. Then again it was something else that gave me stress, work related or so, so after a while I found that indeed the sound is stressing but actually there's something else maybe in subconscious that we don't realize that's happening and makes us think it's the T but it may just be a form of anxiety. Not sure if you understand, for example this morning, I was feeling pretty relaxed, then I had a stress situation from a client who asked to do some graphics work which is a little complicated for me (I'm also a freelance graphics designer) and for some reason this caused me major stress and some anxiety, and then bam the T bothered me again, so again, in my case it's stress related ... but the major issue for me today is to be able to work without having too much stress. Thgis has especially become a problem since I had a burnout.

 

[Marlino]

Hi Hans,

I understand your thoughts very well and also have this feeling that the connection T and Anxiety might be underestimated.

Anxiety is something we can get used to over the years. and learn to ignore. T seems to me sometimes like the accoustical eruption.

Unfortunatly I didn't find any handle yet to improve my T and sometimes I fear once the fuse is broken, it's not reversible for some people.