Why Advise Against Headphones?

[Bartoli]

@Bartoli

Thank you for your apology which I accept. It was the manner in which your quote/statement to me was worded which I took a dislike to.

I am here to help people that are having difficulty coping with tinnitus that was caused by Noise trauma because that is what I am familiar with. There are other types of tinnitus caused by an underlying medical problem within the auditory system but I rarely advise on this. Occasionally I recommend these people to use sound enrichment and try relaxation exercises as a way of reducing stress, which can help the tinnitus to be less intrusive. Ultimately, tinnitus caused by an underlying medical condition needs to be treated by an ENT doctor, either medically or surgically, medication may also be required. A person may need a referral to an Audiologist for hearing aid/s, counselling.

The advice I give to people in this forum affected by noise induced tinnitus is based on personal experience and treatments that I have had for this condition. Namely, TRT which involved counselling and the use of white noise generators, which I still use whenever I feel the need. My views and opinions on treating and managing noise induced tinnitus is also shared by people seasoned to it and fellow tinnitus veterans. I have had this condition for many years and my reasons for being here and to be at other tinnitus forums is to help people as I was once helped.

I appreciate my advice may not sit well with some people and that is perfectly fine as they are entitled to their opinion. However, I want it understood, I am not here to engage in long winded arguments simply for the sake of writing or having to prove myself repeatedly over a topic, particularly the one on headphone use and those affected with Noise induced tinnitus. I have mentioned many times in this forum, some people with NIT are not adversely affected by headphone use at low volume but many are. Peruse some of the many posts in this forum where people regret returning to using headphones because their tinnitus has increased.

Some people in this forum offer no help because their main agenda is to cause as much disruption and discord as possible towards anyone that tries, and especially anyone encouraging positivity and to incorporate that into one's life. Treatments such as TRT, CBT are quickly denounced and said to be ineffective yet many of these people have never tried them. Anyone that dares to say they are having success with a particular treatment. At lightening speed those with a negative mindset rush to retrieve information from websites and paste into this forum to refute such claims.

It is for this reason I agree with a lot of what Professor Pawel Jastreboff said in his video and something I have known for a considerable length of time and wrote about it in my post: The Good The Bad and The Ugly in March 2017 https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly.20467/

Michael

PS: I hope this matter can now be put to rest.

I agree. Let's put it to rest. I have explained what I wanted to explain.

In your answer you're embedding the headphone topic in a more general statement about TRT and the likes and why you're here to help out people. So let me be clear on this: I absolutely appreciate what you do and I don't think our different views on the issue of headphone use needs to a problem.
It is only one aspect.

I reacted on this thread because it's specifically about headphone use.

It's only when you pass off your views as facts or regard yourself as superior or better that I take offense.

All the best

 

[Michael Leigh]

It's only when you pass off your views as facts or regard yourself as superior or better that I take offense.

@Bartoli

How you interpret the way I express myself when writing about tinnitus is something that I have no control over. It is impossible to please everyone. Therefore, I will continue to write about tinnitus and anything associated with it in the way that I feel it, and that is straight from the heart.

Thank you for your comments and I wish you well.

Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

It's only when you pass off your views as facts or regard yourself as superior or better that I take offense.

I would like to make a suggestion and I assure you that I won't take offence. You have the option of placing me on ignore. Please do this, then I will never cause you offence or make you cringe.

Michael

 

[Bartoli]

I would like to make a suggestion and I assure you that I won't take offence. You have the option of placing me on ignore. Please do this, then I will never cause you offence or make you cringe.

Michael

That won't be necessary. I'm not for censorship. On a tinnitus forum we're all sufferers and equals. For me, no one holds exclusive rights to the truth. Freedom of speech within the boundaries of mutual respect is key.
Hoping we can have constructive conversations in the future and the OP can make an informed decision with what has been written so far.

All the best.

 

[Jack V]

@Jack V

No I am not because I know what my ears can tolerate and do not listen at sound levels which I know are going to cause me harm. Everything I wrote in my previous post about my HI-FI is true. If you go to any Audiophile forum people will tell you a similar story.

A good Audio system creates music which doesn't have to be played at loud listening levels to be enjoyed, especially classical and opera. I also listen to American Jazz fusion: Lee Ritenour, Michael Franks, Fourplay, Diane Schuur and many others that are regularly played at 60 to 70 decibels without causing me any problems.

I have completely habituated to my tinnitus. I once had severe painful hyperacusis that was cured using white noise generators, as part of TRT 24 years ago and it has remained this way.

Michael

Here's the thing - everything you're saying about speakers could equally apply to headphones.

For example. you say - "I know what my ears can tolerate and do not listen at sound levels which I know are going to cause me harm" - that could be true of headphones as well.

You say - "A good Audio system creates music which doesn't have to be played at loud listening levels to be enjoyed, especially classical and opera. I also listen to American Jazz fusion: Lee Ritenour, Michael Franks, Fourplay, Diane Schuur and many others that are regularly played at 60 to 70 decibels without causing me any problems." - that could be true of headphones as well (genres and quality aren't exclusive to speakers).

Please understand, I'm not arguing with you, I'm trying to make sense of the information I'm receiving from multiple sources, from you, from my audiologist, from others.

If there is a piece of evidence that shows that headphones are worse for ears than speakers, at the same decibel level, I haven't seen it.

I also read in another thread that you yourself experienced audio trauma from headphones, so perhaps you might understandably have a bias against them. Who wouldn't?

However, I respect your experience, and for all we know, it could very well be that headphones ARE more dangerous than speakers, even though we don't know exactly why.

Perhaps people have less perspective about volume through headphones than speakers. This could be compounded by a need to overcome ambient sounds, since people typically wear headphones when they're out and about (or out and about if they happen to be from Canada). By comparison, speakers are typically used in a more controlled environment with less competition from ambient sounds.

So it may be that even though there's nothing inherently more dangerous about headphones than speakers, it's simply easier to get sucked into volume creep with headphones, and subsequent trauma.

 

[Michael Leigh]

So it may be that even though there's nothing inherently more dangerous about headphones than speakers, it's simply easier to get sucked into volume creep with headphones, and subsequent trauma.

@Jack V

I know you are concerned about this issue but my opinion remains the same and what I advised you in a previous post. You will have to make the decision whether to use headphones or not. I strongly advise not to use them even at low volume, as I don't think the risk is worth it. It is good to acquire information from various sources but remember: All those people that tell you there's nothing wrong with using headphones at low volume, will not be able to help you if your tinnitus increases to a new permanent level, and it's possible. Not for everyone that has Noise induced tinnitus, but quite a lot of them that now regret using headphones.

Take care and I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Juan]

Using headphones is ok if you limit volume (low) and time of exposure.

 

[david c]

Here's the thing - everything you're saying about speakers could equally apply to headphones.

For example. you say - "I know what my ears can tolerate and do not listen at sound levels which I know are going to cause me harm" - that could be true of headphones as well.

You say - "A good Audio system creates music which doesn't have to be played at loud listening levels to be enjoyed, especially classical and opera. I also listen to American Jazz fusion: Lee Ritenour, Michael Franks, Fourplay, Diane Schuur and many others that are regularly played at 60 to 70 decibels without causing me any problems." - that could be true of headphones as well (genres and quality aren't exclusive to speakers).

Please understand, I'm not arguing with you, I'm trying to make sense of the information I'm receiving from multiple sources, from you, from my audiologist, from others.

If there is a piece of evidence that shows that headphones are worse for ears than speakers, at the same decibel level, I haven't seen it.

I also read in another thread that you yourself experienced audio trauma from headphones, so perhaps you might understandably have a bias against them. Who wouldn't?

However, I respect your experience, and for all we know, it could very well be that headphones ARE more dangerous than speakers, even though we don't know exactly why.

Perhaps people have less perspective about volume through headphones than speakers. This could be compounded by a need to overcome ambient sounds, since people typically wear headphones when they're out and about (or out and about if they happen to be from Canada). By comparison, speakers are typically used in a more controlled environment with less competition from ambient sounds.

So it may be that even though there's nothing inherently more dangerous about headphones than speakers, it's simply easier to get sucked into volume creep with headphones, and subsequent trauma.

@Jack V I see that you have started tinnitus very recently as a result of an acoustic trauma. I'd like to briefly offer some advice as someone who has been able to habituate to tinnitus for several years now. Be extremely careful about any noise exposure levels while your ears are very sensitive to sound and repeated loud noise exposure will only make your tinnitus worse and delay habituation.

I would avoid using headphones at all, you might think you can get away with a low volume but even the smallest mistake in volume control could lead to another AT. I'd also avoid public events where you know noise levels are likely to be very high. Having a pair of earplugs always to hand is also a sensible precaution.

 

[ManyLeavesLeft]

I have tinnitus because I was using extremely sensitive, extremely high performance, extremely expensive earphones and was blasted by them at roughly 140 dB. I am probably one of the only people in history to have tinnitus due a true impulse trauma from headphones. This is many times louder than consumer headphones can get. It is as loud as a pistol shot but the peak SPL can last for thousands of times longer even within the first second of exposure.


That said, I think headphones have been important to my getting used to tinnitus and getting on with my life. I can still hear the wonderful nuanced sounds of music, more and more, despite the moderate to severe tinnitus. I think I am getting better at filtering the tinnitus out due to moderate volume music listening. If you are always feeling like your tinnitus is this bad thing that you have to ignore but cannot ignore it, that probably doesn't help the brain learn that it is a useless signal and repair itself. I believe my audiophile headphones help my brain get used to enjoying sounds and filtering out tinnitus. I tend to listen at about 70 dB (with transient peaks up to perhaps 90 dB) and it has only been helpful. And this level of sound exposure is unavoidable in normal daily life unless you are using earplugs all the time, when you are watching tv, or doing the dishes.

If people are worried about a sudden blast of sound due to a volume control error, there are ways around this. For one thing, you can get a moderately powered headphone amplifier and dac which uses a analog volume pot and mechanical resistor, and which has a maximum output which is relatively low. The analog volume pot means that you would have to turn the volume pot up by accident in order for their to be a sudden blast. It is more or less physically impossible for there to be higher power coming from the amp while the volume pot is in a lower volume position. If I had been using one of these when my acoustic trauma occurred, instead of the digital volume control on my macbook, I would not have tinnitus today.

Using an online headphone power calculator you can estimate the maximum volume the amp could get to if somehow you did accidentally turn a knob all the way up while listening to a very loud 0dB signal (0db is the loudest possible signal in a digital audio system). For example, the hifiman HE-6 headphone cannot physically make higher than 105 dB with most amplifiers, and this is at max volume, listening to signal a 0 dB signal.

Personally I trust the volume pot of my amplifier enough such that right now the amp I use could conceivably pump 122 dB into my head if both the volume pot, the gain switch, and the signal all somehow got to max at the same moment. I am looking into other possibilities to add additional layers of security, because the amp I am using now is much more powerful than most consumer headphone amps and more than I need.

 

[kamil1364]

Just wanted to write that I have noise induced tinnitus and I use Beyerdynamic DT 770 32 Ohm at 50% of Android volume, and so far my tinnitus hasn't got worse because of it and my dysacusis continues to improve.

Wish every one of you all the best. Remember that each one case of tinnitus is different and I advise caution.