Why Can't Audiometers Produce the Whole Hearing Frequency Range/Tones?

[Eric N]

It seems silly that a little machine that is specifically designed to produce tones cannot produce specific tones. Frequencies on a standard audiogram are just a fraction of what we can hear. By using an online tone generator I feel I have hearing loss at 1100 Hz and I also have horrible tinnitus at that frequency, but I have no way of confirming it except by comparing the left ear to the right ear. I have normal hearing at 1000 Hz so it seems a 100 Hz+- range is enough to be missed on a hearing test.

Also is there anything medically special about the tones they use in an audiogram? e.g. 250 Hz, 500 Hz, 1000 Hz, 2000 Hz etc...

 

[Bartoli]

It seems silly that a little machine that is specifically designed to produce tones cannot produce specific tones. Frequencies on a standard audiogram are just a fraction of what we can hear. By using an online tone generator I feel I have hearing loss at 1100 Hz and I also have horrible tinnitus at that frequency, but I have no way of confirming it except by comparing the left ear to the right ear. I have normal hearing at 1000 Hz so it seems a 100 Hz+- range is enough to be missed on a hearing test.

Also is there anything medically special about the tones they use in an audiogram? e.g. 250 Hz, 500 Hz, 1000 Hz, 2000 Hz etc...

How did you figure that out about the loss? Does 1100Hz somehow go silent or get obscured during a frequency sweep?

 

[FGG]

If an audiologist calibrated for every 100 Hz and did an extended up to 16000 Hz they'd make a killing helping people figure out their tinnitus better.

I think there will be a need for this as regeneration becomes a reality.

 

[HootOwl]

I agree. I have several random notches where some of my worst reactive tinnitus is. There's obviously an input issue going on that can't be fully represented by a normal audiogram. Wouldn't have known without a sweep test.

 

[MidnightOilAudio]

I don't know why the machines dont offer a full spectrum sweep. Most headphones are capable of producing a fairly flat 20hz-20kHz test.

 

[Bartoli]

If an audiologist calibrated for every 100 Hz and did an extended up to 16000 Hz they'd make a killing helping people figure out their tinnitus better.

I think there will be a need for this as regeneration becomes a reality.

That will take some time!

 

[Bartoli]

If an audiologist calibrated for every 100 Hz and did an extended up to 16000 Hz they'd make a killing helping people figure out their tinnitus better.

I think there will be a need for this as regeneration becomes a reality.

I think frequencies would have to be closer together than 100Hz in the lower frequencies and not as close in the upper because of the way we hear. In every octave the frequency doubles, so 100 Hz would span more than an octave in the lower register and less than a semitone in the uppers.

 

[Bartoli]

I don't know why the machines dont offer a full spectrum sweep. Most headphones are capable of producing a fairly flat 20hz-20kHz test.

How noticeable would a notched loss be during a sweep? Would you have to put it really quiet and then look for when it becomes quieter or even disappears entirely?

 

[GregCA]

Most headphones are capable of producing a fairly flat 20hz-20kHz test.

Errrr... we wish!

That is actually a real challenge for those tests: ear buds will allow closer positioning to the ear drum but won't offer a great frequency response due to the limited size available to pack various speakers, and headphones have the opposite trait, as they have more space/flexibility to work on frequency response, but they can't get too close to the ear drum and thus suffer from leakage & reflections.

What they could do though is to calibrate their test bench to the headphones, but that would require some software work to derive the appropriate sound level based on the response curve of the headphones used for the test. I don't know if their equipment lets them do that.

For reference, here are some typical frequency response curves. Note how "not flat" the upper ranges (above 10 kHz, it's a log scale) are.

 

[Contrast]

If an audiologist calibrated for every 100 Hz and did an extended up to 16000 Hz they'd make a killing helping people figure out their tinnitus better.

I think there will be a need for this as regeneration becomes a reality.

It seems silly that a little machine that is specifically designed to produce tones cannot produce specific tones. Frequencies on a standard audiogram are just a fraction of what we can hear. By using an online tone generator I feel I have hearing loss at 1100 Hz and I also have horrible tinnitus at that frequency, but I have no way of confirming it except by comparing the left ear to the right ear. I have normal hearing at 1000 Hz so it seems a 100 Hz+- range is enough to be missed on a hearing test.

Also is there anything medically special about the tones they use in an audiogram? e.g. 250 Hz, 500 Hz, 1000 Hz, 2000 Hz etc...

Why doesn't the standard audiogram go above 8khz?

Why doesn't the hearing test verify speech in background noise?

 

[MidnightOilAudio]

Notice I said most headphones were CAPABLE of delivering a flat freq response. You can use something like SonarWorks or Trinnov that counter the built in curve and achieve much better results ("better" in this case being defined as much closer to flat).

 

[alanisnotadj]

If an audiologist calibrated for every 100 Hz and did an extended up to 16000 Hz they'd make a killing helping people figure out their tinnitus better.

I think there will be a need for this as regeneration becomes a reality.

I have an appointment in Paris at the centre Audition LEFEUVRE. They told me they can do an "acouphénométrie HD" (to 1 / 48th of an octave or to the nearest Hertz) up to 16000 Hz.
Let's see how it goes.

 

[FGG]

I have an appointment in Paris at the centre Audition LEFEUVRE. They told me they can do an "acouphénométrie HD" (to 1 / 48th of an octave or to the nearest Hertz) up to 16000 Hz.
Let's see how it goes.

Please report back!

 

[alanisnotadj]

Please report back!

Will do! It's in March.

 

[Nonomat]

I have an appointment in Paris at the centre Audition LEFEUVRE. They told me they can do an "acouphénométrie HD" (to 1 / 48th of an octave or to the nearest Hertz) up to 16000 Hz.
Let's see how it goes.

Any particular reason you go in France for this? I'm actually very intrigued as I live in Paris.

 

[alanisnotadj]

Any particular reason you go in France for this? I'm actually very intrigued as I live in Paris.

Well, I am also French and I really want to know where there are gaps in my hearing. You need to be referred by a French ENT to be allowed to do this particular test. I asked them if a referral from a German ENT would be acceptable but it is not.

 

[Nonomat]

Well, I am also French and I really want to know where there are gaps in my hearing. You need to be referred by a French ENT to be allowed to do this particular test. I asked them if a referral from a German ENT would be acceptable but it is not.

Yeah, should have figured that one out

I see that they are part of COOPACOU, do you have to go through an ENT of their network? So that everyone can know: in France there are actually structures "specialized" in tinnitus or at least better equipped than your average ENT (though they remain not really known). COOPACOU is one of them, the other is AFREPA. Basically they offer a
pluridisciplinary approach with ENT, audiologist, CBT specialist and sometimes also osteopath.

If an audiologist affiliated with COOPACOU offers an extended audiogram I might actually be interested also in what an ENT from this network has to say.

 

[alanisnotadj]

You can be referred by any ENT, he or she does not need to be part of COOPACOU. I am also very curious about the results.

 

[GlennS]

Why doesn't the standard audiogram go above 8khz?

Why doesn't the hearing test verify speech in background noise?
View attachment 34722

With all due respect, please lay off on the constant alt-right imagery. It's off-topic and if it's meant to be humorous, it isn't.

 

[alanisnotadj]

Well I could not make it to Paris today... actually I did but I had to jump on a train back to Germany 10 minutes after arriving in Paris. Borders will close tomorrow morning and I had no other option than to go back.

Anyway I will now do my Acouphenometrie HD this summer. I will keep you posted!

 

[alanisnotadj]

Please report back!

I finally did my Acouphenometrie HD or whatever it is called and as expected I have some serious hearing loss from 8 kHz onwards. They recommended hearing aids but so far I can't say that they have improved my tinnitus at all. Less than Lenire anyway. For those interested I am posting my hearing test.

Now the question is, will I be a good candidate for FX-322??

 

[FGG]

I finally did my Acouphenometrie HD or whatever it is called and as expected I have some serious hearing loss from 8 kHz onwards. They recommended hearing aids but so far I can't say that they have improved my tinnitus at all. Less than Lenire anyway. For those interested I am posting my hearing test.

Now the question is, will I be a good candidate for FX-322??

Hearing aids aren't designed for the higher frequencies, unfortunately.

You would likely be a good FX-322 candidate both in terms of the damage being at the base of the cochlea in the ultra high frequencies and in terms of the damage being in the decibel range they are testing.

 

[alanisnotadj]

Hearing aids aren't designed for the higher frequencies, unfortunately.

You would likely be a good FX-322 candidate both in terms of the damage being at the base of the cochlea in the ultra high frequencies and in terms of the damage being in the decibel range they are testing.

Thanks for the answer @FGG, you made my day.