Why Certain Sounds Hurt More Than Other Sounds?

[victoria9273]

Even if it's a small sound, some are capable enough to irritate you and cause pain in your ear.
Why is that? These days I developed a fear in my books and papers. Accidentally brushing them makes me shiver and the sound of those papers clicking makes my eardrums vibrate, it seems.
And from other experiences I gathered a conclusion that reasonably middle- base sound that has an explosive quality is quite capable of getting one's nerves more.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Even if it's a small sound, some are capable enough to irritate you and cause pain in your ear.
Why is that? These days I developed a fear in my books and papers. Accidentally brushing them makes me shiver and the sound of those papers clicking makes my eardrums vibrate, it seems.
And from other experiences I gathered a conclusion that reasonably middle- base sound that has an explosive quality is quite capable of getting one's nerves more.

@Victoria

As you know you have hyperacusis . It comes in different levels of severity just as tinnitus does. In most cases it can be completely cured. It can only be cured by using sound enrichment and there are three forms. In some cases counselling may be required.

It can get better by itself over time without using additional sound enrichment. Just going out as normal and getting used to everyday sounds. Over time the auditory system will desensitise.

The second is self help and I have written about this at length in some of my articles: Hyperacusis, As I see it and Tinnitus, A Personal View. Other posts are available in my "started threads".

The third and best treatment when hyperacusis is more severe and problematic is seeking help through a Hearing Thearapist or Audiologist. This will usually mean the wearing of white noise generators and having regular counselling. This treatment is known as TRT and can take up to two years to treat and cure. I once had very severe hyperacusis similar to what you describe and a lot more. It was so bad when in conversation with someone I had to ask them to lower their voice as my ears hurt to the point of being immensely painful.

Contrary to what some believe hyperacusis can be completely cured in most cases. It Is the over use of wearing hearing protection such as earplugs and earmuffs that make the condition worse. If this condition is not treated a person will usually have problems with tinnitus, which some call: Reactive tinnitus. They can also develop phonophobia a fear of sound if they at not careful and counselling will be required.

Michael

 

[victoria9273]

@Victoria
Contrary to what some believe hyperacusis can be completely cured in most cases. It Is the over use of wearing hearing protection such as earplugs and earmuffs that make the condition worse. If this condition is not treated a person will usually have problems with tinnitus, which some call: Reactive tinnitus. They can also develop phonophobia a fear of sound if they at not careful and counselling will be required.

Michael

tened just now the songs I used to hear and they sound a bit weird. I admit that out of fear of the result of recent incidents I unnecessarily set the volumes on minimum levels and considering the distortions I hear at fairly small sounds, it hardly surprise me that this insanity should take its place.

Thank you as always for your kind and considerate words. I will at least try to adjust the volume of the music I hear a bit higher and higher until all this muffleness and distortions becomes less and clear.

As for earplugs.... I'm thinking of wearing them in lectures, playing accoustic pianos and in subway but other than that I think the sounds they make in the ear when putting them on and off is not quite good for one's ear. So, If I really should wear them, I'll only insert them slightly and unproperly. That's how I wore them at my first onset of hyperacusis and it was completely fine, despite the loud noises i endured during those times. It must have been a psychology involved deep with it.
I'll let tinnitustalk know how it goes with me, and thanks, always.

Edit: I wanted to ask this question: do you think people recovered from hyperacusis and tinnitus should play the pianos withoout earplugs? normal people are perfectly fine withem and doesn't at all think playing one should cause injury to one's hearing. May I ask what your opinion on this one?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Edit: I wanted to ask this question: do you think people recovered from hyperacusis and tinnitus should play the pianos withoout earplugs? normal people are perfectly fine withem and doesn't at all think playing one should cause injury to one's hearing. May I ask what your opinion on this one?

Once a person's hyperacusis is cured as mine has for the last 18 years using TRT. There should be no problem playing the piano or any other musical instrument in my opinion. In my post: Hyperacusis, As I see it. I mentioned going into an arcade here on the Brighton pier. Music was playing on the sound levels registered 100 decibels on my sound meter. My ears did not hurt in the slightest. The next morning my tinnitus was completely silent and I experienced no form of hyperacusis.

Over sensitivity to sound is not normal and needs to be treated. Wearing earplugs treats the symptoms but doesn't cure the problem. In many cases it makes the auditory system more sensitive to sound. I'm sorry to sound so sobering but in my experience and counselling people with tinnitus and hyperacusis and as someone whose hyperacusis has been completely cured I believe that I am right. One can use "noise reducing" earplugs occasionally but they shouldn't be overused especially to suppress outside everyday environmental sounds.

Michael

 

[UpDownAround]

Even if it's a small sound, some are capable enough to irritate you and cause pain in your ear.
Why is that? These days I developed a fear in my books and papers. Accidentally brushing them makes me shiver and the sound of those papers clicking makes my eardrums vibrate, it seems.
And from other experiences I gathered a conclusion that reasonably middle- base sound that has an explosive quality is quite capable of getting one's nerves more.

Scientists at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine did a study that indicates nerve damage in cochlea is largely to blame for hyperacusis. They believe that damaged hairs can cause a pain response. Since there are hairs that receive different frequencies, the frequency corresponding to the damaged hairs is what causes the pain. Everyday sounds are complex; they are not tones just at one frequency. So a lot of sounds will trigger the damaged hairs.
https://www.ata.org/news/news/hyperacusis-related-damage-nerve-cells-inner-ear

 

[Tinker Bell]

Scientists at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine did a study that indicates nerve damage in cochlea is largely to blame for hyperacusis. They believe that damaged hairs can cause a pain response. Since there are hairs that receive different frequencies, the frequency corresponding to the damaged hairs is what causes the pain. Everyday sounds are complex; they are not tones just at one frequency. So a lot of sounds will trigger the damaged hairs.
https://www.ata.org/news/news/hyperacusis-related-damage-nerve-cells-inner-ear

Wow, this is very helpful! Certain frequencies seem to bother me more than certain volumes. Thanks for posting this!

 

[japongus]

Scientists at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine did a study that indicates nerve damage in cochlea is largely to blame for hyperacusis. They believe that damaged hairs can cause a pain response. Since there are hairs that receive different frequencies, the frequency corresponding to the damaged hairs is what causes the pain. Everyday sounds are complex; they are not tones just at one frequency. So a lot of sounds will trigger the damaged hairs.
https://www.ata.org/news/news/hyperacusis-related-damage-nerve-cells-inner-ear

The damaged hair cell theory is a rubbish theory, because if the cells are irreplaceable people with the theory known as 'recruitment' wouldn't acquire it starting and stopping in harmony with ''meniere's'' like it does, and because people wouldn't get better from thumping vibrating hyperacusis from ear drum reinforcement like in the TTTS facebook group, and because papers like this one wouldn't be finding hyperemia on the eardrum. There are many more examples.

 

[japongus]

The phenomenon that loud sounds if they're evened out bother us less than quiet sounds if they're sudden isn't due to the nonsense spewed out by philistines thanks to the immense damage Jastreboff did to the knowledge about it. It's because nobody knows as no experts have bothered to hypothesize and build models about it involving ideas about what can happen when an ear is in the wrong tonic state, or how sudden sound can travel up the eustachian tube or elsewhere through hard to diagnose manners.

 

[UpDownAround]

The damaged hair cell theory is a rubbish theory, because if the cells are irreplaceable people with the theory known as 'recruitment' wouldn't acquire it starting and stopping in harmony with ''meniere's'' like it does, and because people wouldn't get better from thumping vibrating hyperacusis from ear drum reinforcement like in the TTTS facebook group, and because papers like this one wouldn't be finding hyperemia on the eardrum. There are many more examples.

I don't think they claimed that it accounts for all hyperacusis. They are more concerned with the nerves than the hairs, though both are involved. Who should I believe - scientists at Johns Hopkins or some guy on the internet that calls their science based theory rubbish? Hmm...

 

[UpDownAround]

The phenomenon that loud sounds if they're evened out bother us less than quiet sounds if they're sudden isn't due to the nonsense spewed out by philistines thanks to the immense damage Jastreboff did to the knowledge about it. It's because nobody knows as no experts have bothered to hypothesize and build models about it involving ideas about what can happen when an ear is in the wrong tonic state, or how sudden sound can travel up the eustachian tube or elsewhere through hard to diagnose manners.

I think that is where the DSM may have it right. I startle at abrupt sounds, sometimes even if I know they are coming. Opening a soft drink can is one. I startle even if I am opening it. I put a thumb over the tab to dampen it and lift the tab very slowly but sometimes it still opens abruptly. Even though I dampened the sound effectively I still flinch if it opens abruptly. The sound is a trigger. My theory is that because the louder abrupt sounds are painful, the quieter ones trigger a fear response (flinch) even when there is no pain. It bothers us. I have bipolar disorder and my hyperacusis bothers me a lot more when depressed than manic (hypomanic in my case; I am type II) so I readily believe there is a mental as well as physical component in my startle response.

 

[japongus]

I don't think they claimed that it accounts for all hyperacusis. They are more concerned with the nerves than the hairs, though both are involved. Who should I believe - scientists at Johns Hopkins or some guy on the internet that calls their science based theory rubbish? Hmm...

Actually they did claim it was behind all hyperacusis because their hyperacusis questionnaires have never bothered to differentiate what types of ''discomfort'' the patients have going on. They are miles behind online groups where H sufferers get together and talk just because of that embarassing fact.

Then when you read them or their conferences you realize they've only started to hypothesize about it.

 

[japongus]

I think that is where the DSM may have it right. I startle at abrupt sounds, sometimes even if I know they are coming. Opening a soft drink can is one. I startle even if I am opening it. I put a thumb over the tab to dampen it and lift the tab very slowly but sometimes it still opens abruptly. Even though I dampened the sound effectively I still flinch if it opens abruptly. The sound is a trigger. My theory is that because the louder abrupt sounds are painful, the quieter ones trigger a fear response (flinch) even when there is no pain. It bothers us. I have bipolar disorder and my hyperacusis bothers me a lot more when depressed than manic (hypomanic in my case; I am type II) so I readily believe there is a mental as well as physical component in my startle response.

That's because depression affects you like a magnesium defficiency affects another patient with H. Are you going to say he has a magnesium response and you have a fear response? No of course not. The reality is the T crowd comes in to the H crowd with their psychobabble and we keep being fed about this baloney theory of the involvement of the limbic system, when in reality it's purely an ear thing involving structural inadequacies in the ear or wherabouts.

 

[PaulBe]

That's because depression affects you like a magnesium defficiency affects another patient with H. Are you going to say he has a magnesium response and you have a fear response? No of course not. The reality is the T crowd comes in to the H crowd with their psychobabble and we keep being fed about this baloney theory of the involvement of the limbic system, when in reality it's purely an ear thing involving structural inadequacies in the ear or wherabouts.

I think the Limbic system enters the equation, but as a result, not as a cause. As such its something of a red herring in research terms.

 

[japongus]

I think the Limbic system enters the equation, but as a result, not as a cause. As such its something of a red herring in research terms.

Exactly. But that's no small feat. There's a huge difference between the two. And it's been twisted by psychologists and asshat Jastreboofheads.

I have another ailment, belching. It's a symptom that appears in those with hiatal hernias. Only that mine wasn't spotted in conventional tests. But then when you dive into the smallprint of the literature, it turns out it could be hard to spot. So as such and also for other reasons, belching remains a no-man's land that no one really knows if standard surgery addresses or not, and it's a symptom that hasn't been tracked properly. That doesn't spot the psychobabblers from swooping in to claim that belching is a ''hypersensitive'' thing that can be addressed by ''cognitive behavioral therapy'' and ''hypnotherapy'' and ''speech therapy''. They even have the definition wrong, they say it's air swallowing, not air breathing, but when you dive in it turns it's because their standard tests consist of a standard manometry done lying down that only tests esophagheal swallowing, not long term manometry that involves monitoring the esophagus during exercise. Shrinks are like priests and feminists, good-for-nothing nothing-at-stake peer-brownie-points-pressure jackals with a fake smiley-monkey shit culture to show for and mountains of paperwork and careerism to hold a candle to.

 

[UpDownAround]

That's because depression affects you like a magnesium defficiency affects another patient with H. Are you going to say he has a magnesium response and you have a fear response? No of course not. The reality is the T crowd comes in to the H crowd with their psychobabble and we keep being fed about this baloney theory of the involvement of the limbic system, when in reality it's purely an ear thing involving structural inadequacies in the ear or wherabouts.

Something you may find interesting since the T & H seem to overlap. My son has H but not T. Loud noises like live music and some theater movies make his left ear hear nothing but a sound like a paper bag being crumpled. He can massage around the ear and get the crumpling sound without sound. I have exactly the same symptoms in exactly the same ear. That particular aspect of my hearing I think is physical and genetic, though my study does have a very small sample size. However, that does not explain why both ears seem sensitive to particular sounds at low levels.
I have H & T. I am habituated to the T.
As far as psychobabble goes, I will throw a little more at you. I have episodes of derealization, when my brain decides that the world would look better foggy and surreal. There is nothing wrong with my eyes that would explain this. For whatever reason, the visual input gets processed that way sometimes. I can certainly believe the same sort of thing can happen to the audio as well. There is also the school of thought that my senses work fine, the limbic system is fine and then something goes off the tracks in the cerebral cortex.

 

[PaulBe]

I have another ailment, belching.

Well, that could be worse. At least it isn't f.... oh never mind.

 

[japongus]

Something you may find interesting since the T & H seem to overlap. My son has H but not T. Loud noises like live music and some theater movies make his left ear hear nothing but a sound like a paper bag being crumpled. He can massage around the ear and get the crumpling sound without sound. I have exactly the same symptoms in exactly the same ear. That particular aspect of my hearing I think is physical and genetic, though my study does have a very small sample size. However, that does not explain why both ears seem sensitive to particular sounds at low levels.
I have H & T. I am habituated to the T.
As far as psychobabble goes, I will throw a little more at you. I have episodes of derealization, when my brain decides that the world would look better foggy and surreal. There is nothing wrong with my eyes that would explain this. For whatever reason, the visual input gets processed that way sometimes. I can certainly believe the same sort of thing can happen to the audio as well. There is also the school of thought that my senses work fine, the limbic system is fine and then something goes off the tracks in the cerebral cortex.

iirc crumpling was had by someone here I talked to in this subforum who had otosclerosis. As for the other part, brain fog is also a feature of vestibular neuritis and meniere's. All of them are like H, they're all feeding wrong info to the brain. The spectrum of wrongfeeds is linear, just because doctors can't hear it it doesn't mean it stops being objective and becomes suddenly subjective and just because one sound is different doesn't mean it's suddenly neurological instead. Everything is the nervous system, including the ears. But that doesn't mean everything is shrinkological.

 

[GregCA]

iirc crumpling was had by someone here I talked to in this subforum who had otosclerosis.

Could have been me... we've had this discussion before indeed.
My issue was from another angle: it's crumpling sounds that would trigger my H (that and a few other fun things, like the keys on my keyboard, or just myself talking/whispering).

 

[Lex]

The damaged hair cell theory is a rubbish theory

Not sure about that. The pain I experience now feels like neuropathic pain -- burning, stabbing, etc. I don't get the thumping and tightening feeling in the ears anymore. Although I agree that there may be different kinds of hyperacusis.

 

[Fabrikat]

But that doesn't mean everything is shrinkological.

Oooh, I like that! Adding to the vocabulary as well @japongus!

 

[Lorac]

When you have nerve damage and/or hair damage that causes hearing loss, ear fullness, constant noise, burning pain and reaction to all sound, but every medical doctor tells you to learn to live with it - it becomes shrinkological.

 

[Fabrikat]

When you have nerve damage and/or hair damage that causes hearing loss, ear fullness, constant noise, burning pain and reaction to all sound, but every medical doctor tells you to learn to live with it - it becomes shrinkological.

Ah! Thank you for clarifying the term @Lorac! I've been dwelling in the backwaters of tinnitus terminology, whilst all you hipsters have been down with the lingo all along!

 

[UpDownAround]

iirc crumpling was had by someone here I talked to in this subforum who had otosclerosis. As for the other part, brain fog is also a feature of vestibular neuritis and meniere's. All of them are like H, they're all feeding wrong info to the brain. The spectrum of wrongfeeds is linear, just because doctors can't hear it it doesn't mean it stops being objective and becomes suddenly subjective and just because one sound is different doesn't mean it's suddenly neurological instead. Everything is the nervous system, including the ears. But that doesn't mean everything is shrinkological.

No vertigo and my son has no ringing. Because of matching symptoms for the same (left) ear - the crumpling sound masking all sound above some high decibel level - I am assuming it is a genetic defect, not an infection. I am jumping to the conclusion of genetics without a lot of evidence, but having a pretty unusual symptom in the same ear doesn't seem like random chance. Plus the poor kid also inherited my looks, bipolar disorder and arthritis.

Another comment from a few days ago I meant to address:

That's because depression affects you like a magnesium defficiency affects another patient with H. Are you going to say he has a magnesium response and you have a fear response? No of course not.

This was about how I have a startle response to low volume sounds. Were you suggesting that a magnesium deficiency could cause a startle response? Or that it might cause H, which in turn could cause the fear response? My point was that the startle response is caused by the brain independent of the H, but because of the H.

 

[japongus]

Could have been me... we've had this discussion before indeed.
My issue was from another angle: it's crumpling sounds that would trigger my H (that and a few other fun things, like the keys on my keyboard, or just myself talking/whispering).

Ok, so I've misremembered, maybe even misread you. What did your H feel like then? What would it do to your ear?

 

[GregCA]

Ok, so I've misremembered, maybe even misread you. What did your H feel like then? What would it do to your ear?

I'm not sure I can explain it well - it created a very uncomfortable feeling in the ear. Nothing like a stinging pain or a pinch or anything like that: more like when you overpower speakers and they start to crackle, except that the sounds perceived were particularly difficult to bear.

 

[japongus]

Another comment from a few days ago I meant to address:This was about how I have a startle response to low volume sounds. Were you suggesting that a magnesium deficiency could cause a startle response? Or that it might cause H, which in turn could cause the fear response? My point was that the startle response is caused by the brain independent of the H, but because of the H.

No. All I'm saying is there are people that got better from mineral supplementation. They had that defficiency and that caused issues in the ear, nothing to do with a fear response. That's why Jastreboff poisoned the pool and where all this shrinkbabble comes from. I'm saying that this defficiency causes an issue in the ear which specialists should be thinking about, and that the ''startle response'' could easily be a ''background sound response'' if the ear had different mechanical properties. So something in there is definitely and fully to blame, which is why someone in the TTTS fb group got better from this ''startle response'' not by visiting Auntie Freudina but by reinforcing the eardrum with paper or cartilidge iirc. There are many other mechanical things that could be wrong, like something in the eustachian tube, something on an overly stretched middle ear muscle, or an overly stretched tympanic membrane, or something going on in the microossicular structures, in the kinestheology, to sum it up, a wrong tonic state. Someone got worse from grommets, maybe pressure or impedance is involved in ways that normal tests haven't yet known how to measure.

 

[japongus]

I'm not sure I can explain it well - it created a very uncomfortable feeling in the ear. Nothing like a stinging pain or a pinch or anything like that: more like when you overpower speakers and they start to crackle, except that the sounds perceived were particularly difficult to bear.

But don't overpowered speakers do precisely that, crackle and crumple? Now I remember I think why I had you down as such a different type of H as mine.

 

[PaulBe]

it created a very uncomfortable feeling in the ear. Nothing like a stinging pain or a pinch or anything like that: more like when you overpower speakers and they start to crackle, except that the sounds perceived were particularly difficult to bear.

This actually describes mine to a tee as well.

 

[lapidus]

So something in there is definitely and fully to blame, which is why someone in the TTTS fb group got better from this ''startle response'' not by visiting Auntie Freudina but by reinforcing the eardrum with paper or cartilidge iirc.

He/she had the Silverstein surgery?

 

[japongus]

Not sure about that. The pain I experience now feels like neuropathic pain -- burning, stabbing, etc. I don't get the thumping and tightening feeling in the ears anymore. Although I agree that there may be different kinds of hyperacusis.

But someone I knew had chemotherapy and he for a short period had exactly the ''startle'' issue. Damaged hair cells are supposed to be damaged for good. And yet his was temporary, and someone else reinforced their eardrum and got better. As for pain without vibration, neuropathic pain, there are many more nerve endings elsewhere like in the TMJ or all over the ear, the middle ear, the eardrum etcetera, and the trigeminal passes right through or nearby or something, and someone else in a recent paper saw hyperemia on the eardrum when ''tension was high'' or something, and someone else got better from an acoustic shock with TMJ treatment...