Why Do Some People Hate Bill Bauer?

[Bill Bauer]

Wow ...

Yes -> just wow.

Socializing doesn't disturb me as much as it used to, but this is similar to a kidnap victim (who spent the past 30 years locked in a cage and being raped daily or weekly) not having the same emotional reaction to the rapes during year 30 compared to the emotional reaction during the first 5-10 years of the ordeal.

The above is a good metaphor for habituation.

 

[threefirefour]

It seems that the sabbatical year that supposedly took @Chris Holland has not prevented him from forgetting the forum, now he is reporting left and right the messages he does not like.

He always does that I don't take it too seriously. Imagine not being able to handle your own problems like that...

 

[Chris Holland]

He always does that I don't take it too seriously. Imagine not being able to handle your own problems like that...

On that note goodbye

 

[dpdx]

interesting topic (grabs popcorn)

 

[pytajnick]

The question is what constitutes moderation. It is different for each, correct? The person must find out for themselves what levels of noise their ears are able to tolerate. "Listening" to the potential early indications of damage.

I feel that I can see both sides of this issue a bit better because my tinnitus was stable for many years and now it is not. Despite the mild tinnitus, I pretty much lived a normal life. I avoided really loud places including theatres, but that was it. I almost never thought of it and I didn't own any earplugs or worry about spikes.

Then a serious of further sound exposures changed things for the worse. Much worse. Now, I have seriously reactive tinnitus that has been getting progressively worse for two years. The only thing that helps is to avoid even moderate sound levels. And limit the time my ears are exposed. I also believe that stress can permanently damage the ears. My "moderation" has changed. Maybe it will improve, I don't know. Just a cautionary tale. I do agree that living a life of isolation and anxiety is no life at all. I don't think Bill is advocating such a thing.

My experience exactly. Since the onset I've lived the life of moderation but ended up with louder/ more reactive tinnitus anyway. @Bill Bauer advocates 1-2 year of withdrawal. If I had listened these sort of advices instead of others maybe I wouldn't ended being sentenced to isolation for the rest of my life

 

[Ed209]

Hate? Why do tinnitus threads always descend into chaos? I mean, we're all technically on the same side fighting the same battle. No one's ever going to agree on everything, but debate is good. It's often how we learn something new and advance ourselves. No one can hate someone because of their opinion on tinnitus; disagree with, certainly.

It's known that I often completely disagree with Bill, but I don't hate the dude. He could probably word certain statements a bit better. Comparing socialising to rape is a bit uncalled for, especially if a rape victim read it. In my opinion, Bill's advice can potentially affect the mental health of certain newcomers. Especially people with obsessive personality traits who are already overly anxious about their situation.

I can see that he is trying to help people, but it's debatable whether his advice does. The same could be said about any of us though. Construction criticism of each other is a good thing otherwise it would turn into a back patting convention.

 

[Bassplayer]

Hate? Why do tinnitus threads always descend into chaos? I mean, we're all technically on the same side fighting the same battle. No one's ever going to agree on everything, but debate is good. It's often how we learn something new and advance ourselves. No one can hate someone because of their opinion on tinnitus; disagree with, certainly.

It's known that I often completely disagree with Bill, but I don't hate the dude. He could probably word certain statements a bit better. Comparing socialising to rape is a bit uncalled for, especially if a rape victim read it. In my opinion, Bill's advice can potentially affect the mental health of certain newcomers. Especially people with obsessive personality traits who are already overly anxious about their situation.

I can see that he is trying to help people, but it's debatable whether his advice does. The same could be said about any of us though. Construction criticism of each other is a good thing otherwise it would turn into a back patting convention.

I agree.

The problem with forums is that you do sometimes get people post for the wrong attention seeking reasons. I don't mean those who have genuine issues, I'm talking about those who gain some form of satisfaction out of controlling others.

The problem is they don't realise the damage they are doing, not only to those who are genuinely suffering, but also to those who are trying to help. They probably don't help themselves much either.

Fortunately I haven't seen much of a problem here but self moderation is the key. I actually like to hear views which are different to mine. Isn't that how we all learn?

 

[Bill Bauer]

I'm talking about those who gain some form of satisfaction out of controlling others.

If the above is what you think I am doing, then you couldn't be more wrong. My job involves having to "control others", and there are very few things that I dislike doing more. I think I had demonstrated that I am very open when it comes to writing these posts, and I would tell you if you were right, but you are not.

Normally, my gut reaction is to despise "do-gooders." However, T is such a devastating condition and I believe that advice about avoiding noise can make such a big difference, that I have been compelled to set my values aside and share what I know with the others.

 

[Bassplayer]

If the above is what you think I am doing, then you couldn't be more wrong. My job involves having to "control others", and there are very few things that I dislike doing more. I think I had demonstrated that I am very open when it comes to writing these posts, and I would tell you if you were right, but you are not.

Normally, my gut reaction is to despise "do-gooders." However, T is such a devastating condition and I believe that advice about avoiding noise can make such a big difference, that I have been compelled to set my values aside and share what I know with the others.

As I said, I don't see a problem here. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Bassplayer]

My job involves having to "control others"

Out of curiosity what is this job?

 

[Bill Bauer]

Out of curiosity what is this job?

A university instructor.

 

[Bassplayer]

A university instructor.

How's that a job which 'controls others'? It's a job which educates people, but control? Where did that come from?

 

[Bill Bauer]

How's that a job which 'controls others'? It's a job which educates people, but control? Where did that come from?

I wish I were to just lecture the students (in which case your comment would be appropriate). Unfortunately, one of my responsibilities is to grade the students' work and to make a determination of what the students need to know in order to pass the course.

Using your logic doctors (who have to make "life or death" decisions) don't have any "control" as their job is to heal people.

Perhaps we are using different definitions when it comes to the word "control."

 

[Bassplayer]

I wish I were to just lecture the students (in which case your comment would be appropriate). Unfortunately, one of my responsibilities is to grade the students' work and to make a determination of what the students need to know in order to pass the course.

Using your logic doctors (who have to make "life or death" decisions) don't have any "control" as their job is to heal people.

Perhaps we are using different definitions when it comes to the word "control."

Nope, control is control. However I think there is nice control and bad control (if you know what I mean). I actuality came on this thread to defend you.

The truth is that there is a bit of good and bad in everyone at different times. When we are grumpy we can be nasty, but what we sometimes forget is that we can get grumpy because of having to deal with another grumpy git.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Michael literally tells everyone that Hyperacusis and Reactive tinnitus are the same thing, but when questioned about any evidence he has to support this theory he says it comes from personal experience, and when he is questioned about this he automatically shuts down and refuses to engage in a debate or any form of discourse for that matter, unlike Bill who you can reason with and have a debate with. Its like part of the userbase on this forum is so old that they are literally bordering on senile.

Very true. Astute observations. And perhaps the saddest part is the number of members who don't see through it.

Which leads me to the following quote...

"People aren't interested in the truth, Dafar. They're interested in what keeps them safe. They're interested in being looked after. They're interested in a tale being spun... Mighty men have moments of great despair that common people do not want to know about." – Melina Marchetta

 

[Contrast]

I am genuinely curious if reactive tinnitus and hyperacusis are the same thing?

 

[glynis]

My view,
I think reactive tinnitus is a symptom or part of Hyperacusis under the same umbrella.
Love glynis

 

[Bassplayer]

Very true. Astute observations. And perhaps the saddest part is the number of members who don't see through it.

Which leads me to the following quote...

"People aren't interested in the truth, Dafar. They're interested in what keeps them safe. They're interested in being looked after. They're interested in a tale being spun... Mighty men have moments of great despair that common people do not want to know about." – Melina Marchetta

Then again lots of people have been helped by non-scientific academics, on this, and other T forums and have moved on happy with their lives.

Others stay stuck in the belief that you can't move on unless a magic pill is developed.

I'm not knocking the scientific research, but neither should people knock the experience some people bring here and the advances in psychological methodology.

Look at the positive feedback people like Mike and Glynis have received from forum members over the years. That's the real gauge until the magic pill is found. That's the 'truth'!

 

[JurgenG]

I am gonna give my opinion, I have nothing against B. he's probably a nice guy, and he helps people in his way.
BUT
Take note of the following, he has always been living in some form of isolation, so he just kept doing what he did, except wear plugs on his daily activities.
He said before: He never went to musicfestivals, he went to a cinema 20 years ago, and a restaurant 10 years ago.

This is a very different lifestyle than most people.
For him it's barely a change, for most people who want to follow his 'laws' it's a huge change of life.
Some people are actually doing this is a some forum of selfpunishment for their own misstakes, and hope to correct it like that.
It has no scientific base though.

Ofcourse one should protect, and maybe it's best to protect a bit too good then not.
But living like him, is not benificial and will probably just give you H in the process.

This is my opinion on the matter, and I mean no offense to Bill, but I would love to see a little bit less fear mongering.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It has no scientific base though.

There had been no studies published that looked into it. However, all of the available evidence + common sense seem to point to it being the case. The evidence I am talking about are testimonies by the other T sufferers. There are many posts made by people who exposed themselves to noise and within a couple of days got worse. There are no posts made by people who exposed themselves to noise and within a couple of days got better. As for common sense, if noise Might cause T or a T spike, then ..... (wait for it!)..... it makes sense to stay away from noise.

But living like him, is not benificial and will probably just give you H in the process.

If you read my posts where I wrote about how long ago I had been to movie theaters and restaurants, then you must have read me mentioning that protecting my ears has helped me to End my H. My H was severe when I had not been protecting, and it began to get better soon after I began staying away from all of the moderate noises. Now it is completely gone. As I pointed out in those posts, in addition to protecting my hearing, I also watch TV with volume set to a moderate level. That is all it takes to avoid getting H if you decide to stay away from moderate noises.

I had already commented (I think it was in this thread!) on the fact that I have never advocated social isolation for other people. Just because one doesn't go to music festivals or to restaurants/bars where loud music is being played, does not mean that one has to stop socializing.

 

[Ed209]

There had been no studies published that looked into it. However, all of the available evidence + common sense seem to point to it being the case. The evidence I am talking about are testimonies by the other T sufferers. There are many posts made by people who exposed themselves to noise and within a couple of days got worse. There are no posts made by people who exposed themselves to noise and within a couple of days got better. As for common sense, if noise Might cause T or a T spike, then ..... (wait for it!)..... it makes sense to stay away from noise.

If you read my posts where I wrote about how long ago I had been to movie theaters and restaurants, then you must have read me mentioning that protecting my ears has helped me to End my H. My H was severe when I had not been protecting, and it began to get better soon after I began staying away from all of the moderate noises. Now it is completely gone. As I pointed out in those posts, in addition to protecting my hearing, I also watch TV with volume set to a moderate level. That is all it takes to avoid getting H if you decide to stay away from moderate noises.

I had already commented (I think it was in this thread!) on the fact that I have never advocated social isolation for other people. Just because one doesn't go to music festivals or to restaurants/bars where loud music is being played, does not mean that one has to stop socializing.

Bill, I'm sure you mean well but your advice is likely to lead people into social isolation. You are scaring people half to death in many of your posts. I know your reply will say that fear is good because it lessens the risk of T getting worse. It's true than noise exposure raises the risk of T getting worse, but it can be tactfully avoided, and ear defenders can be used. Like @JurgenG said, it's easy for you to tell others to never go out because that's how you prefer to live, so it's incredibly easy for you. Most people need a social life though, and your advice pretty much makes having one an impossibility. This is why I keep saying you're going to make people anxious and depressed. Getting back to as normal a life as possible (minus dangerous noise) is the best way to overcome this awful condition. Nothing is worse than sitting at home, dwelling on all your health issues, with no social life.

 

[Tinniger]

There are many posts made by people who exposed themselves to noise and within a couple of days got worse.

I made a poll here: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nnitus-days-do-you-know-the-phenomenon.26542/
Many tinnitus sufferers know better and worse tinnitus days.
By far most participants do not see any connection between events and bad tinnitus days.
I myself am a great sceptical person concerning causalities. The human being tends to see causalities everywhere. One should be careful not to fall into a superstition.
For example, it does not really make sense to protect oneself from noise if the tinnitus was certainly not noise-induced, but for example as a result of an inflammation of the middle ear or a sudden hearing loss and so on.
The proportion of people whose tinnitus has somatic causes is estimated at up to 80%.
I believe that absolute noise prevention is the wrong advice.

 

[Bill Bauer]

it can be tactfully avoided, and ear defenders can be used

Let me remind you: Ear plugs and muffs provide a false sense of security.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Like @JurgenG said, it's easy for you to tell others to never go out because that's how you prefer to live, so it's incredibly easy for you.

You make it sound as if Jurgen had reveal something I have been trying to hide. I was the one who has been making the point above in numerous posts.

 

[Ed209]

Let me remind you: Ear plugs and muffs provide a false sense of security.

If the noise is outrageously loud they will, otherwise they are very affective at minimising the noise that reaches your ear drum. You're naturally a glass half empty kinda guy. I like to look for solutions; you like to look for problems. It's all good because people can decide for themselves what lifestyle choices they need to make in the future. I'm just trying to balance things out a bit so it's not all doom and gloom.

 

[Bill Bauer]

you like to look for problems

If you don't know what the problems are, you can't solve them. Once I know what the problem is (ear plugs can provide a false sense of security), it is not difficult to see what the solution (stay away from noise) must be.

It's all good because people can decide for themselves what lifestyle choices they need to make in the future. I'm just trying to balance things out a bit

Makes sense.

 

[Bill Bauer]

If the noise is outrageously loud they will, otherwise they are very affective at minimising the noise that reaches your ear drum.

Would you say that ear plugs can get the level of noise to the level of the sound of a loud phone (when the person on the other end of the line raises his or her voice)? If the answer is yes, then you might recall that my T changed from a hiss to a high pitch tone after I pressed a loud phone to my bad ear for a fraction of a second. The spike had lasted for over three months. Someone today pointed out that both volume and duration of the noise matter. Well, my T got significantly worse after a fraction of a second (I moved the hand with the phone away from my ear right away - I have a very good reaction time).

 

[Ed209]

Would you say that ear plugs can get the level of noise to the level of the sound of a loud phone (when the person on the other end of the line raises his or her voice)? If the answer is yes, then you might recall that my T changed from a hiss to a high pitch tone after I pressed a loud phone to my bad ear for a fraction of a second. The spike had lasted for over three months. Someone today pointed out that both volume and duration of the noise matter. Well, my T got significantly worse after a fraction of a second (I moved the hand with the phone away from my ear right away - I have a very good reaction time).

Quieter than that Bill. With the solid caps in the sound drops quite significantly. Same with deeply inserted, rolled, foam earplugs (correctly inserted). In louder environments, like bars for example, the sound is way quieter. No different in perception to watching TV at home at normal volume for example. Obviously this depends how loud the bar is, but I'm going by most the bars I've been to and other fairly noisy places.

 

[Chris Holland]

Lol, this thread is still going

 

[Bill Bauer]

In louder environments, like bars for example, the sound is way quieter. No different in perception to watching TV at home at normal volume for example.

The bottom line is that people should pay attention to the signals given to them by their body. If the earplugs make the noise sound like TV at normal volume, then it appears that it makes sense to stay. If the noise feels unpleasant even when one wears earplugs, then it makes sense (to me) to leave as soon as you can.